Sandcastle P'town owners -Festiva

[e.bram]

A lawsuit might have implications with his mortgage.(probably subprime). Also if he sells a unit he will have to give the procedes($1.00) to the bank and remove the mortgage from that sold unit. (fairly complicated)

 

[ChrisH]

You gotta be kidding!!!!

Sorry to be harsh, but it's looks like you've been taken

Any pressure sales tactics, misrepresentation of the facts or attempts to sell by fraud or deceipt are AGAINST the MASS GENERAL LAWS.

Therefore if Outfield Marketing has been using these practices for months with Octopersona's (NEVMS LLC, vivmarch, massman, capeguitarguy, etc.s) knowledge and you experienced it why do you not think it should be addressed.

That's like saying 'My house was robbed by so and so, but then I met this guy xxxxx (total stranger) who seemed nice and told me to do nothing and he (total stranger - who would possibly benefit from my non-action) would take care of it, so I'll do nothing.'

These below are Verbatim - even the mistakes.


Festiva Resorts Adventure Club p 1
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
Public Offering Statement
1.Names and Principal Addresses of Developer and Seller: Location of Timeshare Properties

The Developer of the Festiva Adventure Club (the ‘Club) is Festiva Development Group, LLC ( “Festiva” or the “Developer”), a Nevada limited liability company with a principal address of One Vance Group Road, Asheville, North Carolina 28805

The Seller of Club Memberships in Massachusetts is New England Vacation Services, LLC (“NEVS”), a Massachusetts limited liability company with a principal address of 135 E. Hickory, Denton, Texas 76201. Pursuant to and Affiliation Agreement between Festiva and NEVS, NEVS has prepared this Public Offering Statement, based upon information provided to it by Festiva, and is offering Club Memberships (“memberships”) for sale in Massachusetts for its own account.


from p 6

V. Managing Entity (ies)

The operation of the Club is the responsibility of the Association, which is a South Carolina non-profit, non-stock corporation. The Members of the Association consist of all owners of Points, including the Developer, which is deemed to be the owner of all unpaid Points. The location of the Associations principal place of business is One Vance Gap Road, Asheville, North Carolina 28805. Each Member, other than the Developer, will be a Class A Member of the Association and is entitled to cast one (1) vote for each Point that he or she owns. The Developer (or any Appointee) is a Class B Member of the Association and is entitled to cast three (3) votes for each Point that the Developer owns. The Class B Membership will be converted to Class A Membership as of the first of July 1 of any year on which more than ninety percent (90%) of the Total Points in the Club have been sold to Members other than the Developer. Further, for as long as the Developer or any Appointee holds a Membership or a debt secured by a Security Interest in a Membership, the Developer is entitles to appoint at least one member of the Association’s Board.

The Developer currently controls the Association, and the Developer has the right to retain control of the Association after a majority of Points has been sold.

(my comment:
This Club is in North Carolina, this Club includes multiple resorts in multiple states, as long as Festiva controls at least 10.00000000000001 % of this Club – they get 3 votes for every Point. If they buy into additional resorts, they will just keep the Association from ever achieving 90% of the votes and continue their control. PS note that there is no mention of WEEKS OWNERS – who will not be Club Members and will have NO SAY in what the Club does.)

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Sorry Cliff ... I prefer transparency and would have to share any communications from you with the other people who feel the same way about you, Outfield and Festiva that I do.

No problem

I offer complete transparency to Sandcastle owners, but our business is our business and much of what you and other owners might like to know is not generally available to the public. If you'd like answers, I can only offer them to you, I can't make you accept them. All I ask is that you respect the confidentiality of information that I'm more than willing to share with you. If you don't want to respect that confidentiality, that, of course is up to you. Simply do not expect me to share confidential information if you breach that agreement.

Cliff

 

[ChrisH]

Check Intercity Escrow Services

13) When the improvements are made, the now-unused inventory is sold, and the affiliations with Festiva and II are established, Cliff thinks that the value of our individual shares will increase substantially. On the other hand, if he were to let the place go on as it has been, then considering the code violations, the sewer issue, and the financial problems, it may be only a matter of time before something drastic happens, and that might include the owners losing everything.

This sentence interests me and raises questions. When I met with the Outfield Marketing person last October he told me that Festiva was considering the Sandcastle as part of their organization. No decision had been made and they (Festiva) were going to wait until all the improvements and repairs were completed, about a year or so. At that time they (Festiva) would come back and inspect the resort and make a decision as to whether it (Sandcastle) would be included in the Festiva roster of world class resorts.

From what ProfPaul wrote it sounds like the relationship has not been established. If this is true then I am wondering what will become of those units that were turned over to Festiva. Were they actually turned over or are they in the possession of someone or something else? I have been poking around in the public records regarding the Sandcastle and I found 6 recorded deed transfers for Festiva, and 5 of them were the Sandcastle. Now if that is all they have managed to turn over, HOORAY. But if it isn't, then where are the rest?

The more I read, the more questions I have. Does anyone know the answers?

Where is Cliff when we need him? I would email him but he won't answer me after my faux pas of the other evening.

The POS that Outfield gave me says FESTIVA is the 'Developer' and NEVS LLC is the SELLER, see previous msg on this thread.

Also, after the first few 'exchanges' of deeds and money for Points - Festiva changed the Quitclaim deed from Festiva resorts via Intercity Escrow Services, to just Intercity Escrow Services. But the Intercity Quitclaim document itself reads:

InterCity Escrow Services, a CA corporation, the address of which is 6210 Stoneridge Mall Road, Suite 140, Pleasanton, CA 94588 (hereinafter called "Grantee"), Trustee pursuant to that certain Declaration for Festiva Resorts Adventure Club dated August 11, 2206, executed by Festiva Development Group, LLC and Festiva Adventure Club Members Association Inc. (the Declaration), it heirs, successors and assigns, the below described real property:

If you plug in Intercity Escrow Services in the Barnstable deeds search: just read the doc and compare it to the few Festiva ones - they are the same thing. Just a name change after the first few.

Chris

 

[Classylassy523]

A few questions for the King of the castle

Cliff ....

How about I ask you my questions right here in front of God and everyone?

They all pretty much pertain to Festiva and the turned over timeshares by deeded owners.

Here goes ....

Going by what your Outfield Marketing representative told me last October regarding Festiva's plans to wait until the repairs and upgrades were completed at the Sandcastle before they made a final decision about including our resort in their roster of world class resorts, and that it would be at least a year before the decision was made ... my questions are about those deeded interval ownerships that were turned over in exchange for the Festiva point system.

1) How could membership in Festiva be sold to Sandcastle owners when there was no agreement made between Festiva and the Sandcastle? If there is no agreement made between Festiva and Sandcastle because our resort doesn't measure up to Festiva's standards of a world class resort, then don't those former deeded owners now have no chance to stay at their formerly owned units during their formerly owned weeks, or any week or any unit for that matter?

2) If Festiva does not agree to include the Sandcastle in its list of world class resorts what becomes of those deeded interval ownerships? Will they be returned to the original owners or will they be retained by someone or some entity?

Now this question I KNOW you can answer:
3) How many units have been turned over for Festiva points? Why do I ask? I have been reading the public records regarding Festiva and Sandcastle, and I find only 5 listings. So that tells me one of two things - either your Outfield Marketing representatives have failed in their efforts, or someone or some other entity is holding those deeds.

Knowing you are widely versed and knowledgeable about the timeshare industry, (from your IVS Realty webpage: New England's oldest and largest timeshare resale company) and the various programs offered by companies like Festiva, RCI and II, you should also be able to answer this:
4) If Festiva should decide not to include the Sandcastle in its roster of world class resorts what happens to those people who got their points from turning over their deeded properties? Do they lose their points? Do they lose all that money they had to pay to have someone take their property from them?

5) The person(s) or entities who now hold the deeds from those units that were exchanged ... those units that were a source of maintenance fees and special assessments in the past ... are those person(s) or entities now responsible for paying the maintenance fees and special assessments on those same units?

I just have so many questions ... makes my head hurt ... the more I think the more questions I have.

There just seems to be so many if's, why's, how's and what's about all this. So much that is unknown ... so much smoke and mirrors ... no transparency, and I am a person who prefers transparency to smoke and mirrors. I guess I just don't like being treated like a mushroom and kept in the dark.

So I am turning to you Cliff ... you are the expert here ... the well known timeshare industry dude. How about some answers and help.

Thanks in advance for your assistance,
Jean

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Sorry Jean, I'm no longer answering questions on TUG. Every time I do, I'm vilified and flamed. I get called a "thief", a "liar", a "crook", etc. I'm told that people won't believe me no matter what I say, even if it's the truth. I've even been accused of committing crimes by people who don't know what they're talking about, do not have any facts to back up their accusations and don't realized the implications of their statements. I've been accused of pretending to be other people when I'm not and there's no way I can prove I'm not someone any more than someone can prove they're not a child molester. I don't know how to prove a negative. I've been personally attacked and libeled. I've had private communications from me published on TUG. I've seen confidential resort information published on TUG.

There is no point in my answering questions when I'm told I won't be believed no matter what I say. I will always respond to owners and answer their questions. As I've said, I do expect that confidential communications remain confidential. I don't think that's too much to ask.

What we have here is not reasonable discourse between people who may have opposing viewpoints. What we have here is diatribe and vitriol of the basest sort and I choose not to participate in it any longer.

Any Sandcastle owner that has questions can reach me at nevmsllc@gmail.com

Cliff

 

[ecwinch]

Sorry Jean, I'm no longer answering questions on TUG. Every time I do, I'm vilified and flamed. I get called a "thief", a "liar", a "crook", etc. I'm told that people won't believe me no matter what I say, even if it's the truth. I've even been accused of committing crimes by people who don't know what they're talking about, do not have any facts to back up their accusations and don't realized the implications of their statements. I've been accused of pretending to be other people when I'm not and there's no way I can prove I'm not someone any more than someone can prove they're not a child molester. I don't know how to prove a negative. I've been personally attacked and libeled. I've had private communications from me published on TUG. I've seen confidential resort information published on TUG.

There is no point in my answering questions when I'm told I won't be believed no matter what I say. I will always respond to owners and answer their questions. As I've said, I do expect that confidential communications remain confidential. I don't think that's too much to ask.

What we have here is not reasonable discourse between people who may have opposing viewpoints. What we have here is diatribe and vitriol of the basest sort and I choose not to participate in it any longer.

Any Sandcastle owner that has questions can reach me at nevmsllc@gmail.com

Cliff

Cliff,

What makes the answers to the questions "confidential"?

Have you marked them "confidential"?

Do you have non-disclosure agreements with the parties you share them with?

Why do you feel it is so important to control the flow of information between interested parties (both owner and non-owner)?

On one hand, you want to transparency. But only with the party that asks the question.

It is hard to reach but one conclusion with that pattern of your actions...

 

[Classylassy523]

No shock, just the usual

Sorry Jean, I'm no longer answering questions on TUG. Every time I do, I'm vilified and flamed. I get called a "thief", a "liar", a "crook", etc. I'm told that people won't believe me no matter what I say, even if it's the truth. I've even been accused of committing crimes by people who don't know what they're talking about, do not have any facts to back up their accusations and don't realized the implications of their statements. I've been accused of pretending to be other people when I'm not and there's no way I can prove I'm not someone any more than someone can prove they're not a child molester. I don't know how to prove a negative. I've been personally attacked and libeled. I've had private communications from me published on TUG. I've seen confidential resort information published on TUG.

There is no point in my answering questions when I'm told I won't be believed no matter what I say. I will always respond to owners and answer their questions. As I've said, I do expect that confidential communications remain confidential. I don't think that's too much to ask.

What we have here is not reasonable discourse between people who may have opposing viewpoints. What we have here is diatribe and vitriol of the basest sort and I choose not to participate in it any longer.

Any Sandcastle owner that has questions can reach me at nevmsllc@gmail.com

Cliff

Cliff ...

To be totally honest ... had you answered my questions I would have been shocked. Your response is just what I expected. Even if I had put the questions into an email you would have probably answered with a bunch on non-information, yet again.

I already know the answers to the questions. I asked you because I was wondering if just once you would provide the transparency that you have touted in the past. Instead you come back with a whining 'poor me' bunch of garble. You try to portray yourself as the injured party. No one likes you, people call you names, you are accused of committing devious deeds, you are falsely accused of lying. Get real, Cliff. You have been caught in your lies, your deviousness has been uncovered and exposed time and time again. You do the deed, you pay the price.

So, Cliff, no surprise from you this time. Just more smoke and mirrors, whining, and non-information.

Jean

 

[ProfPaul]

Okay, last post. This is why I stopped hanging out in un-moderated online forums about 15 years ago. I thought maybe things had changed, but I can see the bullies and ignoramuses are still in charge. Frankly, from where I sit, a large number of you are being led around by the nose by non-owners who wouldn't know Cape Cod if they fell over it. Stephen Colbert, we need you...

I'm not going to go back and correct 250 posts, and there are a lot of good questions that have been posted that I am trying to get answers for, but there are some basic assumptions here that many of you have gone ballistic over that are just wrong. Unfortunately, they have taken on lives of their own, and all sorts of absurd conclusions have spun off from them.

I will describe two of them and then I will shut up, because I have better things to do than deal with all of the quarter-truths and worthless factoids that are being passed off as Gospel.

1) There is no Octoman. The BBS administrator who noted that several users were using the same IP address did a disservice to everyone by implying all of those users were the same person. That is just wrong. I administer several computer networks, both professional and personal, and I know. Because Sandcastle has a large internal wireless network, anyone logging on from anywhere within the complex will show up on an IP monitor as having the same address. I am in my room at the moment, 9:20 am EDT. I have no idea where Cliff is, but I do know he's not in my room.

2) The reason we cannot get a list of all the owners is that there are conflicts between the Mass General Law (which says we're entitlted to it) and the federal Privacy Act (which says we're not). Think about this: If Sandcastle were to give out everyone's address, and someone who got the list decided to stalk someone they met around the barbecue grill, who would be liable? Under federal law, Sandcastle would be, and they would stand to lose big. I understand that not a single timeshare operator on the Cape will give out owner lists for precisely this reason. Does this need to be settled in court? Probably. But the decision isn't going to be based on who's right or wrong, it's going to be based on whether federal law trumps state law. Is anyone volunteering to be party to that suit? Go right ahead, and let me know what happens. In the meantime, all the timeshare operators are playing it safe.

There are plenty of questions that need to be asked of Cliff, and I will continue to ask them. He has been completely forthright in his answers to me. He has asked for confidentiality on some of them, and I will respect that. Have I signed a confidentiality agreement? No, and I won't; and he won't ask me too. But because we are being civil with each other, he is so far responding completely appropriately.

I urge every owner who wants to really understand what's going on to contact/confront Cliff directly. If you don't like what he says, then go ahead and hire a lawyer and sue his ass. But continuing to scream for blood based on the "facts" that have been posted here, while it may be fun (especially for people who have no stake in the situation), is not going to do you or any other owner any good.

Good bye and good luck.

PP

 

[e.bram]

IMHO:
ProfPaul = Cliff = SHILL

It is now Novoman

 

[Fig]

1) There is no Octoman. The BBS administrator who noted that several users were using the same IP address did a disservice to everyone by implying all of those users were the same person. That is just wrong. I administer several computer networks, both professional and personal, and I know. Because Sandcastle has a large internal wireless network, anyone logging on from anywhere within the complex will show up on an IP monitor as having the same address. I am in my room at the moment, 9:20 am EDT. I have no idea where Cliff is, but I do know he's not in my room.
PP

This is just beyond silly.

1. You are acting far too ticked and interested in Cliff's affairs.
2. To have us believe several people are spending their vactions on the internet defending Cliff is beyond credible.
3. Viv claims never to be spending time on the internet while at the resort...cause of the kiddies. She typed her responses when she got "home."

"A day or so later when we bumped into her and her husband in the parking lot her husband mentioned if we'd looked at the site yet. I told him we hadn't because we were on vacation with the kids and we have the rule of no video games, computer or tv whilst on vacation (which I could enforce that the rest of the year too), but I'd probably take look when we got home."

She claims to be posting on her return. Yet the IP shows Viv and Cliff to be very, very, very close in proximity. Where is home? the basement of the resort?

Not even a half-hearted try...but Eric appears to have won the bet...someone claiming superior knowledge of the internet would come on the boards and try to explain the whole fiasco away. A "prof" too!

Like I say...folks, you are up against something that appears to stop at nothing. Good luck!

 

[ghubbert]

Really only two people posting?

IMHO:
ProfPaul = Cliff = SHILL

It is now Novoman

If everyone and anyone who posts something that is either neutral or positive are all considered to be one and the same person, what is to say that all the negative posters are not also one and the same person?

This all makes for great entertainment, but it has become very difficult to take any of it seriously.

 

[Fig]

If everyone and anyone who posts something that is either neutral or positive are all considered to be one and the same person, what is to say that all the negative posters are not also one and the same person?

This all makes for great entertainment, but it has become very difficult to take any of it seriously.

Oh, I think a lot of owners are taking Cliff's antics VERY, VERY seriously.

 

[ghubbert]

Oh, I think a lot of owners are taking Cliff's antics VERY, VERY seriously.

Unless they are all one and the same person perhaps?

 

[Fig]

Unless they are all one and the same person perhaps?

Yeah, it's a plan we have been hatching over several decades. Join the internet over several years not months....type from various IP's to give it a feel geographic diversity...not like Cliff and his alts who all use the same IP. Appear to join and have knowledge of several different resorts. In fact, all of TUG is one person furiously typing away...gotta go, the Carpal Tunnel is killing me

Cliff, give up, Dude.

 

[tombo]

He states that he will never post here again, then two NEW GUESTS appear defending him. This guy is unbelievable in so many ways. Well every time he invents another happy owner he is simply showing his desperation.

BTW, the next time a new poster with the same IP address appears who loves Cliff and the resort, would someone please meet them in the lobby since they are obviously at the resort.

It is amazing that so many post nowhere but from the resort. Even more amazing if I am not mistaken is that some of these posts occurred before the Wi Fi at the resort was even operational. Does anyone remember the date it started? I remember one figment of Masman's imagination talking about how he hoped that the wireless internet was up and working when they went for their week. If I am not mistaken Cliff said it would be working within 2 weeks. This meant that many including massman and capeguitarguy had registered on TUG before the wilreless was even installed. Hard to type from the same IP address if there is no wireless unless you are on the same computer. Hard to type as FIG pointed out if you didn't get on the computer while on vacation.

The more lies being told to cover the previous lies, the more he gets caught. Is he not smart enough to admit he is caught and just stop? I feel sorry for the owners at these resorts because it is being run by someone who will tell any lie to get their way. You will never be able to know for sure what is actually happening at your resort as long as Cliff,viv,prof,mas,cape,stein is in charge.

 

[Fig]

He states that he will never post here again, then two NEW GUESTS appear defending him. This guy is unbelievable in so many ways. Well every time he invents another happy owner he is simply showing his desperation.

BTW, the next time a new poster with the same IP address appears who loves Cliff and the resort, would someone please meet them in the lobby since they are obviously at the resort.

It is amazing that so many post nowhere but from the resort. Even more amazing if I am not mistaken is that some of these posts occurred before the Wi Fi at the resort was even operational. Does anyone remember the date it started? I remember one figment of Masman's imagination talking about how he hoped that the wireless internet was up and working when they went for their week. If I am not mistaken Cliff said it would be working within 2 weeks. This meant that many including massman and capeguitarguy had registered on TUG before the wilreless was even installed. Hard to type from the same IP address if there is no wireless unless you are on the same computer. Hard to type as FIG pointed out if you didn't get on the computer while on vacation.

The more lies being told to cover the previous lies, the more he gets caught. Is he not smart enough to admit he is caught and just stop? I feel sorry for the owners at these resorts because it is being run by someone who will tell any lie to get their way. You will never be able to know for sure what is actually happening at your resort as long as Cliff,viv,prof,mas,cape,stein is in charge.

The sad thing is...this is all being done on Sandcastle and Southcape owners dimes.

 

[tombo]

This post on Southscape shows that the wireless internet was not even operational as many of the aliases registered using the same IP address on TUG.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=761956&postcount=863

 

[TUGBrian]

1) There is no Octoman. The BBS administrator who noted that several users were using the same IP address did a disservice to everyone by implying all of those users were the same person. That is just wrong. I administer several computer networks, both professional and personal, and I know. Because Sandcastle has a large internal wireless network, anyone logging on from anywhere within the complex will show up on an IP monitor as having the same address. I am in my room at the moment, 9:20 am EDT. I have no idea where Cliff is, but I do know he's not in my room.
PP

Since I was named specifically, ill address this item.

1. I never implied they were the same person, I merely provided information that all the posters who were on one side of the fence, were all posting from, or registered using...the same IP address(s).

2. Your IP address doesnt match any of them.

3. one of the posters with a "matching" ip claimed they were posting after they returned home from vacation if I recall correctly, how would said person be able to post from the same IP address if that were the case? I suppose its POSSIBLE that they live within wireless range of the resort.

I merely provided the information as was asked of me for others to form their own opinions as it does indeed have some bearing on the discussion and was asked for by members.

However you like everyone else here, are free to type your opinion on the situation as you see fit. The Free Exchange of ideas and information is what TUG is all about, noone here is only interested in one side of the story.

 

[Fig]

The problem I have with my information being shared is that, whilst I am sure most of the owners are decent people (although over the years I have come across a few who were doubtful), I do not agree with my personal information being handed over to hundreds - and potentially thousands - of strangers. Who knows what some of them might do with the information?

Besides which, someone could get a lot of money selling a list of this nature.

Hmm how seriously can we take this "privacy" concern? From what TugBrian says, you are sharing your IP address with a bunch of people at the resort...since you and a number of other posts all seem to be coming from the same IP as Cliff's.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=762003&postcount=870

Funny how you and VivMarch, another alt, use the word "whilst"...should have been a tip that you are not an owner interested in protecting privacy at all.

Cliff, give up the game.

 

[JackB62]

For Sandcastle Interval Owners

Just a quick question...how many units are at Sandcastle?

How many intervals are owned (I remember that it's not a year-round
resort?)

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Carolinian]

Well, another interesting first post. Does knee-jerk support of Cliff really pull so many people to TUG????

I hope, Cliff has found somewhere else to post from, as he has been busted from his old location!

If everyone and anyone who posts something that is either neutral or positive are all considered to be one and the same person, what is to say that all the negative posters are not also one and the same person?

This all makes for great entertainment, but it has become very difficult to take any of it seriously.

 

[Carolinian]

Just a quick question...how many units are at Sandcastle?

How many intervals are owned (I remember that it's not a year-round
resort?)

Thanks,

Jack

And is NEVS claiming to ''own'' and be able to vote those weeks when the resort is closed, and no one in paying m/f's? If so, that is outrageous and needs to be challenged. Maybe one of Cliff's alternate personas will answer that one.

 

[Sou13]

Here's what's bugging me

What's really bugging me now is that Sandcastle has wireless Internet while Southcape is still waiting for it, and Southcape owners have been assessed $400 to pay for Sandcastle's wireless Internet access!

I have an IP address from capeguitarguy. It's [209.85.219.162]. Is that supposed to be confidential?

 

[Sou13]

the first message from capeguitarguy came from [69.16.236.4].