New "deal" from developer orlando svo

[norag]

O.K. guys I'm the one that bought on ebay and got ripped off and am now down in VV with all the information knowing #1 never buy from developer and # 2 never buy voluntary....
so with that I leave the sales meeting 4 hours later doing what I said I wouldn't do. So here's the deal...
The sheraton had some foreclosures offering for sale at visatana fountains (refurbished) 2bdrm 1 wk 76000 staroptions for 12,000. We bought 2. to give us 152,000 staroptions 1-52 with gold card and 152,000 starpoints.
Was this a horrible deal or was I scammed again. I'm not that concerned about resale and I have the points option if needed. Also don't have to worry about being scammed off ebay...
Let me know what you think.
Thanks again,
Nora

 

[grgs]

O.K. guys I'm the one that bought on ebay and got ripped off and am now down in VV with all the information knowing #1 never buy from developer and # 2 never buy voluntary....
so with that I leave the sales meeting 4 hours later doing what I said I wouldn't do. So here's the deal...
The sheraton had some foreclosures offering for sale at visatana fountains (refurbished) 2bdrm 1 wk 76000 staroptions for 12,000. We bought 2. to give us 152,000 staroptions 1-52 with gold card and 152,000 starpoints.
Was this a horrible deal or was I scammed again. I'm not that concerned about resale and I have the points option if needed. Also don't have to worry about being scammed off ebay...
Let me know what you think.
Thanks again,
Nora

Well, if it truly does come with 152,000 StarOptions this would be a reasonable deal. A Westin Kierland resale worth 148,100 StarOptions probably averages in the low 20s.

However, I have never heard of StarOptions being attached to anything other than Lakes or Cascades units at Vistana. I do not believe the other phases at Vistana are eligible for SVN. I'm also think it a bit odd that the StarOption total would be 76,000 as that is not a figure that is commonly assigned in SVN. Are you sure this is applies to both StarOptions & StarPoints?

Glorian

 

[Westin5Star]

I am at Vistana now in the Cascades section; we have had a great week. I talked to a guy yesterday that just bought on a 1 day special :hysterical: the same 2BR unit in the Fountains for $9,999. He did not get any incentive of SPs as they said his rock bottom price was his incentive. I didn't want to burst his bubble and tell him he could have bought the same thing on ebay for a few hundred dollars or less. He did say that they waived the remodel assessments as part of the deal. Did you get a good deal???

 

[Bill4728]

You may not have gotten a bad deal if in the process of buying at Vistana you got your first purchase retro'd into SVN.

But I also have never heard of a purchase at Vistana in a phase other than Lakes or Cascades being part of SVN.

 

[SDKath]

Nora,

I think you got scammed again, by Starwood this time. I don't think what you bought participates in SVN. Maybe they offered you StarPOINTS as a one time incentive. But last I checked (last week actually), only Lakes and Cascades have the whole Staroption program. Easy to check -- just call the 800 number for Starwood sales and ask someone.

Also be ware because in a year or so, those units will have about $1500 in special assessments. They can't even give away those units these days.

Be ready to rescind! PM me if you want more info about a unit that DOES participate in SVN and has Mandatory SOs because I have one that I will likely pass on purchasing (not mine so hopefully this is not construed as an ad).

Katherine

 

[grgs]

Also be ware because in a year or so, those units will have about $1500 in special assessments. They can't even give away those units these days.

I believe Fountains is one of the phases that is currently undergoing renovation. There shouldn't be special assessments in the near term, as they have already been assessed. I would confirm, though, that there won't be a second installment due in 2009.

Glorian

 

[Transit]

The numbers seem off I would call you salesperson to clarify the section you bought and the staroptions for each week. Weather is it a standard 2 bedroom or 2 bed lockoff and the season you own.76000 sounds like starpoints for 2 purchases 152000 starpoints.If this is a Fountains unit I do not think you get any Staroptions with it.12,000 for a fountains unit is very high.

 

[norag]

Yes this is a new incentive apparently after April 1st all fountain owners can be upgraded into svn. The renovations have been completed and the decision by the board of directors to join svn was made on march 17th.. Anyone with a resale deeded prior to march 31st can get the deal. staroptions range from 67000 to 76000 pts.
They told us it rolled out only yesterday.
Nora
The star points are convertable at 44,000 pts per week 76,000 star option. It won't show up on the network until april 1st.

 

[SDKath]

Yes this is a new incentive apparently after April 1st all fountain owners can be upgraded into svn. The renovations have been completed and the decision by the board of directors to join svn was made on march 17th.. Anyone with a resale deeded prior to march 31st can get the deal. staroptions range from 67000 to 76000 pts.
They told us it rolled out only yesterday.
Nora
The star points are convertable at 44,000 pts per week 76,000 star option. It won't show up on the network until april 1st.

Oh I am such a pessimist! Look at the contract and make sure it's in there. Someone here can help perhaps with the wording to look for? I know they really convolute the wording for SVN and the buyer's relationship within the system. Perhaps someone at SVR Lakes or Cascades can chime in?

Katherine

 

[norag]

Assuming that the developer is not being untruthful, then it is our understanding from all available documentation that as of April 1st, the Fountains, Fountains II and Vistana Beach Club (VBC) will all be offered the opportunity to join in the SVN (at no cost until Oct. 31st, and at $599 after that). The decision was only made as of March 17th; and the units available from recent foreclosures make up the 'stock' available to the developer to sell.

So what it comes down to is 2x76,000 (152,000) Star Options for under $25,000, with the addition of all 'bells and whistles', including a bonus of 132,000 Starwood Points, Gold SPG Membership, and the ability to convert Star Options to Starwood Points (76,000 SO=22,000 SP)

It seemed to us to be good value for the buck (for the Options), so... looking for some comments or reassurance on the purchase. We do have 10 days under FLA law to rescind the whole deal (BUT still chasing our deposit on EBAY!!!).

Thanks in advance,

Nora

 

[myip]

Assuming that the developer is not being untruthful, then it is our understanding from all available documentation that as of April 1st, the Fountains, Fountains II and Vistana Beach Club (VBC) will all be offered the opportunity to join in the SVN (at no cost until Oct. 31st, and at $599 after that). The decision was only made as of March 17th; and the units available from recent foreclosures make up the 'stock' available to the developer to sell.

So what it comes down to is 2x76,000 (152,000) Star Options for under $25,000, with the addition of all 'bells and whistles', including a bonus of 132,000 Starwood Points, Gold SPG Membership, and the ability to convert Star Options to Starwood Points (76,000 SO=22,000 SP)

It seemed to us to be good value for the buck (for the Options), so... looking for some comments or reassurance on the purchase. We do have 10 days under FLA law to rescind the whole deal (BUT still chasing our deposit on EBAY!!!).

Thanks in advance,

Nora

Why not wait until April 1 to buy the unit? This way, you are sure to be in the SVN network.... I am not sure whether I would want to spend 25K for 2 maintenance fees for Fountain Section.

 

[readyalready]

Is the ability to get Starpoints that important to you? I thought trading in for Spoints was considered very poor value. Are you thinking you will mostly use these units or trade them for the Staroptions? Are you trying to get to Elite status?

Long term I don't see how this is much of a deal. You are paying a few thousand more than you would for a resale plat Kierland 2bd (find a reputable resale agent if you want to avoid ebay), plus paying two maintenance fees, is that $700 more every year than WKV would be? Besides some units at SVR, what would having the extra 3900 Staroptions get you? My impression is that renting at Vistana is quite inexpensive, I wonder if you could rent an extra unit the years you want to go for much less than the $2-3k extra up front plus $700 per year. Is the option to join SVN only for original developer purchasers? Isn't that what they did at Desert Oasis? What happens on resale?

When I buy I like to think I won't get hosed if I ever decide to sell. I'm not sure I believe that having the ability to join SVN is going to catapult the value of these units on the resale market, if that is even an option for resale buyers. If you tried to sell these at any point, I think you'd get a small fraction of what you put in. I think you could get out of a WKV with much less exposure.

I vote rescind.

 

[norag]

We bought now because the first offering of these units was on Thursday, and by Friday, the price on most had gone up $4,000, from $12,500 to $16,500. So with the realization that we have 10 days to rescind, it seemed like a better move to buy now, and review documentation on April 1st to confirm the developers claims.

152,000 SO per year, plus 132,000 SP (one time offer), Gold Status (SPG) and option to convert SO to SP didn't sound too bad.

Maintenance fees are $623 each. ($1,246 total per year).

 

[johnmfaeth]

Is the ENTIRE deal in writing? Includng the Starpoints as a permanent, and not as a one time thing?

If not, you are being scammed. Not in writing = does not exist in reality.

Even in a new program is starting 4/1, get it in writing...

 

[calgarygary]

We bought now because the first offering of these units was on Thursday, and by Friday, the price on most had gone up $4,000, from $12,500 to $16,500. So with the realization that we have 10 days to rescind, it seemed like a better move to buy now, and review documentation on April 1st to confirm the developers claims.

152,000 SO per year, plus 132,000 SP (one time offer), Gold Status (SPG) and option to convert SO to SP didn't sound too bad.

Maintenance fees are $623 each. ($1,246 total per year).

Is the amount that you were quoted for mf the total or have you been given just mf with taxes and svn membership (if it does apply) on top. I trust that svn is mentioned in your contract and not just what the salesman said as there is no mention of vr other than lakes & cascades on the svn charts.

 

[norag]

Thanks Johns and Gary,

The entire offer is in writing, as we signed it in 28 different places! The option to transfer SO to SP is permanent, at 22,000 for 76,000 SO. The ONE TIME INCENTIVE for signing was 132,000.

Maintenance fee for both weeks is $1,246 ($623.45 each) and property taxes are $182 total (for both).

Annual Vistana Plus membership fee is $109 and includes the external exchange company membership.

As per some previous answers above, the Fountains (I and II) and Vistana Beach Club will be listed on SVN as of April 1st.

So... looking for some opinions...: Rescind or Keep?

 

[grgs]

In the paperwork you signed is there a document called "Starwood Vacation Ownership Notification"? That should list how many StarOptions/Starpoints the units are worth. There also might be a document called "Starwood Vacation Network Owner Membership Agreement." I think if both those documents are present, then Starwood may be doing something new by bringing the Fountains phase into SVN. I wonder if the other refurbished phases in Vistana will follow?

Glorian

 

[grgs]

staroptions range from 67000 to 76000 pts.
They told us it rolled out only yesterday.
Nora

Can you give a bit more info on this? Which units are worth 67,000 options and which 76,000? I'm guessing the 67,000 should really be 67,100? I'm still perplexed by the 76,000 figure. Did you get LO units? If so, then I would think they should be valued at 81,000. I think it would be odd for a non-LO 2 bd in the Fountains phase to have a higher value than one in the Cascades phase.

Glorian

 

[norag]

On my chart there are 3 categories platinum 81,000; gold select 76,000 and gold plus 67,000. Vistana beach club is going to be brought in to the svn also using the same system. At the bottom of the page in small print it says lakes/cascades will trade internally within the lks/casc homegroup as well but must pay with external staroptions when requesting a different phase at SVr ex: lakes/cascades will access vbc or ftn using platinum and gold plus staroptions. All SVR (ftn1, ftn11) and VBC owners will receive 76000 star options each year for network travel.

 

[norag]

you're right 67,100. not 67,000.

 

[grgs]

Maintenance fee for both weeks is $1,246 ($623.45 each) and property taxes are $182 total (for both).

Annual Vistana Plus membership fee is $109 and includes the external exchange company membership.

As per some previous answers above, the Fountains (I and II) and Vistana Beach Club will be listed on SVN as of April 1st.

So... looking for some opinions...: Rescind or Keep?

I think it comes down to how concerned you are with resale value. If there's chance that you might need/want to sell in the future, you're better off with a 2 bd plat Kierland.

On the other hand, if you like the Starpoint conversion option, and are pretty sure you're not going to sell these units, then cost-wise, I think it's a draw. I think a resale Kierland (148,100 options) would run you around $22,000. You've paid $24,000 for these Fountains units. The Starpoint incentive I would value at about $2600 (2 cents/point).

The mf on the 2 bd Kierland would run you about $300 less (2008 mf approx. $1207--includes SVN fee & taxes). That fact, along with the resale value concern, would probably push me to the rescind side.

Of course, this is all assuming that these Fountains units will in fact have StarOptions. If this is the case, this is a whole new direction for Starwood. Rather clever on their part--the existing owners to pay to upgrade the units, and then Starwood has new SVN units to sell, and can invite the existing owners to buy their way into SVN.

Glorian

 

[norag]

I'm surprised that the star points are only worth 2 cents a point. Can't you get a fairly good room for about 10,000 per night and every 5th night free. so it should be arount 14 nights in a category 4 hotel. The sales guy also said that the svo resorts were now able to be purchased through pts.
However after 4 hrs I kinda stopped listening. He didn't like it when I brought up resale and the director said all their resorts being built from now on will be voluntary. the option to get back into the system when buying resale is not a sure thing they don't have to do it and may increase the price they will require for upgading as time goes on!!

 

[SDKath]

Great point about Kierland 2BR at 148,100 SOs. Price is about $20,000 these days on resale and since it's M, you'll get that critical SO threshold for 2BR exchanges just about anywhere. But no SPs option then. And resale is much better at Kierland.

That said, if you are aiming to eventually go to 5* or want any sort of elite status at all, buying from the developer is key as your SOs will not apply otherwise (even from a M resort) toward elite status.

SPs of 44,000 is 2 nights in at Cat 6 I believe during mid week (20,000SPs for 1 night) so it really is not that much to write home about. But, it opens up some nice options for Hotel travel and Cat 6 is usually super classy.

So far, I am saying stay with it.

Katherine

 

[SDKath]

Actually the more I think about it, the more this is going to make availability a nightmare for SO exchanges. I would think just about everyone is going to use the SO system to try to exchange into more in-demand properties outside of Orlando. Soooo those properties will have less availability.

On the other hand, most people will not be exchanging INTO Fountains from other resorts as they are nicer (and you can always rent at Fountains for peanuts).

SO in the end, this is going to hurt the system IMHO. Just an aside though. Not related to your good deal.

Katherine

 

[norag]

I was looking at the one time incentive of 132,000 pts. I thought that would be worth more than 2600.00.