Planet Hollywood Towers - the #1 timeshare in the US?

[dougp26364]

PH Towers doesn't have to wait to have something built in front if it blocking it's views. It already has something blocking it's views......the Planet Hollywooed Casino. Like Westgate Towers only some of the Marriott's rooms will have their views blocked. Because Marriott is built with an X shape, rooms at the end of the hallway look at the stip at an angle. The rooms closer to the ends will still have something of a view and the interior of the X (facing north or south) will have views north or south of the strip. Westgate is building it towers in a II shape providing views only north and south for almost all of the units.

There's one other problem. Westgate Towers is NOT on the strip. It's actually further off the strip than the Marriott. It's only claim to being on the strip is an interior hallway that will allow you to walk to the Miracle Mile Mall without going outside. When you think about Westgate Towers and the HGVC Flamingo, they're both in about the same position except, the HGVC Flamingo has usage of the Flamingo's pool complex, which is much nicer, and closer, than the PH's pool complex would be to Westgate IF Westgate had PH pool privledges.

Vegas land values have NOTHING to do with timeshare resale values. If you want proof of that just look at Polo Towers or Jockey Club resale values. Both ARE on the strip and the JC will have direct access to the Cosmopolitan. The very same arguement that land values are skyrocketing on the strip was sold to us when we purchased our first PT's unit. Despite the skyrocketing value of the land, to date we have never realized any profit from it and probably never will. Neither will JC. This despite the fact both are right smack dab in the middle of some of the most lucrative land on the strip for redevelopement.

The only thing the Harmon Ave. corridor seems to be ramping up is the value of the land for flipping. The land the W hotel was SUPPOSED to be built on was bought and sold for a profit two or three times. Now, there are NO PLANS to build anything on it and it's looking to be sold again. Don't believe anyone that tells you, "This is the next strip." It's not true. They'll keep destroying the old and building new on the strip, which will keep everything else from being "the next strip." If anything stands a chance then it would be Flamingo where HET owns a good chunk of land.

I guess what I'm saying is DON'T buy the hype Westgate is shelling out for this resort. It's all wrong IMO.

 

[mjs]

Posted by Perry--My estimate, based upon 100+ timeshare rentals, is that I can get $10,000 for the week by breaking the 4BR into the 3 parts: 2BR, 1RB, and Studio

ok--lost opportunity on 139, 000 at 6% is $8,340
maintainence fees $1,100
Total $9,440

Plus lost opportunity in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

I must be missing something, help me out.
Mark

 

[Shoeshine]

Posted by Perry--My estimate, based upon 100+ timeshare rentals, is that I can get $10,000 for the week by breaking the 4BR into the 3 parts: 2BR, 1RB, and Studio

ok--lost opportunity on 139, 000 at 6% is $8,340
maintainence fees $1,100
Total $9,440

Plus lost opportunity in 2007, 2008, and 2009.

I must be missing something, help me out.
Mark

Very well stated !!
-
-
Right now I'm the leading bidder on a Jockey Club Unit.

I'm so excited
-
-

 

[spatenfloot]

It certainly isn't on top of a casino. That tower will be a VERY long walk from the PH casino. People already complain all the time just about the walk from PH's parking garage.

Also, Starwood manages the hotel for PH but I've not seen anything to indicate that they will manage the PH Towers. I rather doubt Westgate would give up such a lucrative contract like that.

 

[spatenfloot]

The guy sitting at a $1,000 minimum bet ph table with $100,000 the maximum bid is going to think about owning a piece of the LV Strip – he only comes a few times to Vegas and doesn’t want to spend $3 M for a condo. But a timeshare in the ph casino is something that will probably ring a bell.

No, that guy would get a suite in any hotel on the strip just for playing in the casino. He wouldn't need to buy anything, much less a timeshare.

 

[dougp26364]

I missed the part about getting $10,000 in rental fee's. All I can say is good luck with that. Timeshare rentals can be had in Vegas for much less. By splitting the week, I'd estimate the BEST that you'll do is maybe $3,500 and you'll be working to get that much. In reality you'll be lucky to cover your MF's most of the time.

We've owned in Vegas since '98. Rental income is one of the biggest lies you'll hear from a TS salesman and one that I believe they are prohibited from using as a selling point. That being buying a TS as an investment.

No doubt Westgate's resort is going to be one of the best in Las Vegas with a great location. But, you're still buying into a well developed (over developed) location, buying into an area where the typical guest spends 4 nights or less and buying into a location with some of the greatest compitition for room rates in the country. When tourists come to Vegas, they come to play and a hotel room is more than enough for the four S's (****, Shower, Shave, and.....). They're not looking for a condo where they can spread out.

In addition, you'll be in compitition with the condo's at the Cosmopolitan, City Center, Turnberry, Sky or MGM Signature. High rollers will end up at those rather than renting a unit at the Westgate, Marriott or any other timeshare resort.

 

[Patti]

Outrageous

This is so unbelievable... Over $100,000 for a week of timeshare (even for 2 or 3 weeks!)? I think I've entered the Twilight Zone...

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Wow...PerryM bought a Westgate!

Can you post the exact price and type of room you bought. I thought you originally were buying only a 2 bedroom. I see the MF is actually pretty reasonable for this location.

Are you buying this for personal use or for investment potential or both?

I own a Westgate Park City and LOVE it!!!...I also read TONS of posts on TUG about the Westgate Haters...perhaps this is limited to the Orlando resorts and the sales reps. I on the other hand, have nothing but praise for the Westgate system in Park City and I cna be a tought customer to please. In fact, my entire family and every guest we have ever invited there loves it. Fellow Marriott MS/MW friends are jealouse. I have seen the pre-constructiuon drawings of Las Vegas and they look impressive.

One thing to consider is the POWER of a 4 bedroom in a choice location and choice building. There are only a handful of true 4 bedrooms at the Westgate Park City and they are over $100k and you can get mega rentals with them. Resales are almost non-existent.

One of the wierd things about Westgate is their overpromotion of celebrities and David Segal. Tell the reps...."show the celebrities, not David" in the dozens of photos of him on the walls of the Westgate timeshares.

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[dougp26364]

Perry, your a smart man but, I really think you've over valued the market in Vegas.

 

[cluemeister]

I can't wait to sit on the balcony at night and watch the Bellagio light show each night.

No offense to Perry, but I'm happy to be slumming it on my 18th floor strip front skyview suite at Polo Towers. It's a guaranteed week and unit, and I can see from the Luxor to the south all the way up to the Eiffel Tower, including the Bellagio Fountains. I'm also directly across from Project City Center. I feel I slightly overpaid a little at 3K, but the view from the balcony is stunning.

I think Perry's calculations only work if: Westgate exercises ROFR consistently (similar to Marriott), and he can get 10K per year in rental income. Two very big ifs in my book.

Signed,

Cheapskate

 

[PerryM]

What's my watch worth?

I deleted this post

 

[Docklander]

I'm very new to all this so please pardon my ignorance but a few questions/thoughts have occured to me from reading these posts:

1) why would I want to buy a 2bd lock off in ph for $48,900 when MGC resales for 2bd lock offs are going for well below $20k? - there is hardly any difference in location
2) Sure the strip is pretty at night but how long are you actually going to be in your villa for (of an evening) to enjoy the views? IMO views in Vegas are not really as big an issue as when you're in Hawai'i or the Caribbean.
3) Yes, PH has a casino MGC doesn't - but it's not exactly an effort to get to a casino from MGC - in some resorts (MGM springs to mind) the walk from rooms to casino is probably just as long!

I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here because I can't see anything in the posts that makes me want to part with approx. $30k more just to go to PH - please help, what have I missed?

 

[dougp26364]

For your sake I hope your right. My problem is I just don't trust Westgate and Westgate's name is all over the timeshare portion of this building. Maybe what bothers me is your newbie like excitement over purchasing at developer prices. Granted you understand the value of buying preconstruction on hot properties as some Marriott's have turned profits at resale several years down the road but, has that ever been the case with Westgate and has that ever occured in Vegas?

The problem as I see it is we can discuss the pro's and con's until the cows come home but, it will probably 10 years down the road before we know if you wisdom has proven you out or if you miscalculated the future value of Vegas and this project. There's a lot of bad history with that piece of land. Has PH finally got it right to break the jinx or will it go down in flames again and drag PH Towers with it? Only time will tell.

One thing is for certain. Timeshare sales in Vegas seem to be very brisk everywhere. Even Marriott is talking about accelerating the completion of their building by combining the construction of towers 3 & 4. It will be interesting to see how or if the construction of PH Towers affects their sales and their decision on how quickly to build out the project.

 

[dougp26364]

I'm very new to all this so please pardon my ignorance but a few questions/thoughts have occured to me from reading these posts:

1) why would I want to buy a 2bd lock off in ph for $48,900 when MGC resales for 2bd lock offs are going for well below $20k? - there is hardly any difference in location
2) Sure the strip is pretty at night but how long are you actually going to be in your villa for (of an evening) to enjoy the views? IMO views in Vegas are not really as big an issue as when you're in Hawai'i or the Caribbean.
3) Yes, PH has a casino MGC doesn't - but it's not exactly an effort to get to a casino from MGC - in some resorts (MGM springs to mind) the walk from rooms to casino is probably just as long!

I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here because I can't see anything in the posts that makes me want to part with approx. $30k more just to go to PH - please help, what have I missed?

As to number 2, no view is ever guarenteed in Vegas. Resorts don't seem to live to be that old before they're imploded and something else is built. I would like to think that since the Aladdin was imploded a few years ago and rebuilt, it might last a little longer. On the other hand, it has already gone through bankruptcy once and has changed hands and names. In Vegas, unless your building is ON the strip you're always in danger of having something built in front of you at some point in the future.

And of course you are correct. Vegas is not a beach resort or a ski week. View may never be that important to many people but, to some it is. It's one of the reason's I also own an 18th floor strip view unit at Polo Towers. It's not the class resort in Vegas by any means anymore but they are nice units and it has one of the best views of the strip with a small balcony to enjoy it from. Plus, devloper pricing was only $14,900. Resale on those units is much cheaper in the $1,000 range. I can live with repainting every 5 years instead of having a glass building and the hallways didn't look that shamefull when I was in them last March.

 

[PerryM]

The point is the point..

I deleted this post

 

[AwayWeGo]

Price Point For Sure -- & Then Some.

I wear a Casio G-shock watch – it’s rated to withstand a fall from 100’ to concrete – it’s waterproof to 300’ and it’s an atomic clock – resets it self once a day (doesn’t work in Hawaii sadly). So how much is that watch worth?

When I bought it 2 years ago I saw prices ranging from $115 to $195. I, of course, bought it for $115 at a huge sale at Pennys. Does that mean the $195 price was wrong and the $115 is correct? NO. As consumers we decide what’s the correct price. I saw the $195 in an airline magazine and instantly knew that this was the maximum price I’d ever have to pay for it.

The same product in multiple markets gets multiple prices all at the same time – there is a price point for everyone.

Not only is there a price point, but also a Do-I-Even-Want-This-At-All point. And the wristwatch is a good illustration.

I'm just an old retired guy. What the heck do I need with a watch? I don't have to go to any meetings or need to show up on time for much of anything (other than band practice, etc., now & then). I put away my watch the day I walked out of the grey old bureaucracy for the last time. (I still have it, but the batteries are dead. So it goes.) If I want to know what time it is, I can have a look at my full-feature SamSung Sprint PCS cell phone, which cost $25 (used, naturally) via Craig's List. Plus, there are digital clocks in the car radios -- runs slightly fast in the 2002 (used) Chrysler, slightly slow in the 2005 (used) Dodge, so on average I know approximately what time it is.

If things change & I want a new watch some day, I'm far likelier to get a $35 special down at CVS or Rite Aid -- or a $25 special at the Big Top Flea Market down by Thonotosassa FL -- than a Casio G for $115 down at J.C. Penney.

While the folks who want the top-name big bux items -- cars, watches, timeshares, etc. -- would no doubt be dissatisfied with my el cheapo cars, watches, timeshares, etc., the opposite is also true. That is, my ingrained thrift ethic would not let get much satisfaction from the full-freight equivalents of my big-bargain cars, watches, timeshares, etc.

Rich or poor or middle class, whether I have the money for the big bux items is mox nix. What counts is what I feel like doing with my money.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[PeterS]

One question about the value of the casino being attached...

The Flamingo HGVC is a separate tower but you take a short walk around the tropical pool area and you are right in a casino, all in the same footprint.

I don't think PH is the first TS to be in a complex with a casino for this reason alone.

Also, what value is it except convienence... when it is mentioned about all the MGC visitors coming over and using the casino at PH to the benefit of PH owners???

Did I miss something about the PH owners owning part of the casino?

I am sure that is not the case. They aren't giving away the cow, they are just selling the milk.

There is value to easy access to the casinos and the strip, but that can be seen in resorts like the HGVC at Flamingo (great casino and fantastic strip access) and they aren't selling in the 6 figures.

I have heard the argument of the value of the real estate divided by 52 but their are some resorts you could buy 52 weeks for $1000 or less in Orlando that the a whole ownership is much higher that $52000... when MFees and taxes and such are calculated in the value doesn't have to add up to the whole ownership value.

Pete

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[PeterS]

Perry,

Forget the comparison to Marriott... compare PH to HGVC at Flamingo...

Both are part of a complex directly on the strip (HGVC@F is better spot, with shorter walk) and both have casinos, restaurants, etc...

If PH is worth so much.... than the weeks at HGVC@F should be snatched up in anything under $50K a week...

Why is the value at HGVC@F not going into 6 figures?

I may agree that the marketing that PH does with the slogan "Buy a piece of the Strip" may rake them in a bunch of buyers but that doesn't make it worth anymore than HGVC@F and they can be bought much cheaper than PH and are very nice.

I stayed at HGVC@F and I liked the idea of being in a building just steps away from the casino when I wanted it but not having to walk through it to get anywhere.

As most timeshare units are sold high first by the developer, then the prices drop off, I can't see the PH units going for a 300-400% premium over HGVC@F on the resale market.

Pete

NOTE: I don't own HGVC@F or any HGVC but have stayed there and thought it had the best mix of location, amenities, relaxation than anything (built or planned) that I have seen in Vegas.

 

[Bill4728]

“Never buy from the developer – buy resale” this is probably the TUG motto. It’s been said here many times. There are a few cases, however, when buying direct from the developer makes a lot of sense. Pre-construction pricing, availability of hot holiday weeks , and premium location within the complex are just a few reasons to consider violating this TUG tenet. We did this with 5 Marriott pre-construction timeshares we owned.

Perry's comment is very true. "Pre-construction pricing, availability of hot holiday weeks , and premium location within the complex are just a few reasons to consider violating TUG's tenet". And like Perry's marriotts, he may do well buying presale from the developer. But I still believe that the for almost all TS buyers the TUG motto is correct "BUY RESALE".

For those people who bought Marriott's Newport Coast (NCV) presale, they have done very well. But if you had bought NCV, five years ago resale you may have done even better.

PS if you do the same cost/sq foot comparison for NCV, you'll see that the best bang for your buck may be a NVC resale.

 

[PerryM]

I deleted this post

 

[gmarine]

Well, I've done my due diligence and pulled the trigger. I've stated my views and make the detailed analysis available to others later this week.

I don't think we will have long to wait to see ph assuming a vaulted position on the LV Strip. Prices charged will indicate the value to the folks buying the villas. These prices might seem exorbitant to us, but not the guy putting down a $10,000 bet in the ph casino. Owning a piece of the Strip is something that probably makes a lot of sense to him.

Someone plunking down a 10K bet isnt buying a timeshare. He is buying at MGM Grand Residences or similar or just taking the free suite, limo, jet etc that is offered to him by the hotels. Heck, betting $50 per hand for several hours gets me a free room at most vegas hotel. I cant imagine what 10K a hand would bring. Not a timeshare salesman, thats for sure.

Just for a second lets assume the prices double within 5 years. Now lets assume you could sell at this point resale for 50% of the developer price. So what did you make. Nothing, nada , zero. You did however lose 40K or so in interest income assuming 5% per year had you put the 140K in a CD. I wont even get into how bad it would be to finance it.

And thats assuming there will be a market for resale timeshares in the 140K range.

Hey, good luck with it, but there are much better ways to invest in real estate, Las Vegas or otherwise.