Cliff refused to get in the passenger seat today

[BJRSanDiego]

At this Facility if you change the the type of Unit you want after you move in there is a $10K fee. They remodel each unit completely between tenants.

When a person is at that stage in life, maybe the $10K isn't as big of a deal considering all of the other costs.

When we made the big switch, it was a big financial adjustment. We are in a Continuing Care Retirement Community (independent living, skilled nursing, Memory care, and assistant living). The buy in was big and the monthly fees are substantial. But...

Here the cost to switch depends on what they have to do to refurb the unit. We had an apartment for only 6 weeks and never moved in. So it was like "new". There were still vacuuming patterns on the carpet so we weren't charged anything.

In my case we moved at a good time. My wife passed the entrance exam. That was a concern.

 

[clifffaith]

At this Facility if you change the the type of Unit you want after you move in there is a $10K fee. They remodel each unit completely between tenants.

Same here.

 

[Patri]

So, if you want to speed things up, talk to the retirement home and see if they have both an internal and external list.

One fellow here said "I'd rather be 2 years early in coming here instead of 2 minutes late".

A similar quote at a presentation I went to, supposedly said by a resident, stated 10 years instead of (can’t remember number). But I totally disagree with that timeframe! I get why people move to these communities. They have a lot to offer. But I’m too active in my own town yet, and the place I visited is too far away if I want to keep doing what I do (and love).

 

[DeniseM]

Did Cliff move out and file for divorce yet?

 

[clifffaith]

Did Cliff move out and file for divorce yet?

He’s been very quiet. Thursday I’ll need to ask him if he plans to allow me to drive him to his Monday scans. He may not get in the car Monday, but I’ll have done my due diligence in attempting to give UCI cancellation notice. It’s too far for Reata Glen to take him, but I expect it can be scheduled with Go Go Grandma with RG’s help. However he is unaware of that …

 

[BJRSanDiego]

A similar quote at a presentation I went to, supposedly said by a resident, stated 10 years instead of (can’t remember number). But I totally disagree with that timeframe! I get why people move to these communities. They have a lot to offer. But I’m too active in my own town yet, and the place I visited is too far away if I want to keep doing what I do (and love).

I've heard a number of similar numbers. That's why I posted an alternative to move up that timeframe at some facilities.

My motivation to make the move now was to move while my wife and I are healthy rather than wait until one of us cannot meet the entrance criteria.

 

[b2bailey]

He’s been very quiet. Thursday I’ll need to ask him if he plans to allow me to drive him to his Monday scans. He may not get in the car Monday, but I’ll have done my due diligence in attempting to give UCI cancellation notice. It’s too far for Reata Glen to take him, but I expect it can be scheduled with Go Go Grandma with RG’s help. However he is unaware of that …

I'm thinking Cliff's pride can better handle having his younger, loving wife drive him -- rather than being relegated to "Go Go Grandma".

 

[clifffaith]

Cliff got in the car for the drive to his scans with no problem on Monday. However when he got back to the waiting room between the CT scan and MRI, up comes the old “who made you boss of the car” routine. Cliff the fact that you asked me six time where we were going makes me boss. The fact that you had your first shower in nine days makes me boss. I showered yesterday! Nope, you most assuredly did not. The fact that while you were in the shower I put the clothes you wore for the last three weeks in the hamper makes me boss.

Wednesday we played cards for two hours and then he wanted to take our friends for a ride to have them critique (admire?) his driving skills. Jim quashed that right away and spent a half hour carefully explaining to Cliff why he should no longer be driving. Cliff seemed to latch on to “it’s not my skills, it’s my memory” and repeated that several times and seemed accepting. Not.

Yesterday he drove himself 10 minutes to Trader Joe’s when I was otherwise occupied. I saw the $12 charge on my phone and knew immediately he’d made a whiskey run. If he’d asked me to take him I would have whipped out the bottle he asked me to buy three months ago. I‘d put it away and he never asked for it so I didn’t offer it. By 9pm he was back to “if you can’t cancel my license suspension I’m leaving you”. I roll my eyes as I type this. Aside from his lack of short term memory, his main dementia symptom has become this divorce loop. I’d sure as heck prefer that he was wandering!

Today my Informed Delivery indicated the DMV paperwork was being delivered. I intercepted that and found a meeting room in which to review it. Do nothing and his license is suspended as of September 19th. This is what our primary doctor told me to do. Or there is a form like a doctors office new patient form where he ticks all the ailments he has, signs, fills in the name of the doctor who will fill out the remaining forms, and signs again giving DMV access to his medical information. A doctors office then completes the forms and mails them back by September 18.

My first thought was fine, let the oncologist also tell him and the DMV he shouldn’t be driving. And let Cliff see that this isn’t just me and “that woman” as he refers to our PCP saying this. Problem is all his specialty doctors at UCI don’t really see his cognitive issues. However the brain MRI with the Alzheimer’s remark was done at UCI so the results are readily available.

But after mulling it over a few hours, and given his current temperament, kicking the issue down the road to after September 19th seems like a good idea. I assume an official notice of suspension will come, just hope it doesn’t say “since you missed the paperwork deadline”!

I’ll probably change my mind back and forth several times before Monday. Monday is also the day we tell the oncologist thanks for all the good care but we’re moving to closer doctors. But I suppose if I decide to have him handle DMV paperwork that I should probably put off “firing” him. Too awkward!

 

[b2bailey]

Faith, I am so sorry you are having to plow through this difficult time with Cliff.
Having faced a cancer battle with my husband, I know how trying that can be. And I was fortunate to have never experienced an unkind word through it all. I vote for letting the time deadline do the deed.

 

[heathpack]

I absolutely agree with @b2bailey and with your own assessment @clifffaith- just let that deadline come and go.

1. His primary care provider is the doctor who is thinking most holistically about his care and well being. This is the person who already has thought through this issue and know he should lose his license

2. His oncologist might not want to get involved in any way, since he/she does not have the expertise to make a cognitive assessment and also hasn't done so. This puts them outside their area of expertise. Pet owners ask me about things unrelated to neurology all the time. I tell them "I am not the person to help you with that". Period. End of story. Why? Because: Really. I should not be telling what kind of heartworm preventative to give your dog. I do not keep up with the latest on that subject

3. You don't know what the oncologist will do? What if they decide to be "helpful"? But to them being "helpful" is saying Cliff can drive because they know getting to the appointments in Irvine is a logistical problem for yall

4. You can move on and switch to closer doctors which will help you navigate the complexity of getting him to appointments

@clifffaith I know your head is spinning right now and you're dealing with a lot of confusing things that makes it hard to know the best path. But trust your instincts on this decision and just let the opportunity for dispute expire.

 

[clifffaith]

He came home from poker last night at 8:30 and immediately got into bed. He hasn’t played in months, now suddenly he’s playing again and asked if we could start eating earlier so he can “get there on time”. He never gets anywhere without me pushing him out the door, but fine we’ll eat earlier. Jim, our friend who spoke with him the other afternoon, reported to me that Cliff won a little money and payed the game ok, but had difficulties counting his money at the end and didn’t want help.

An hour later he was up and in our office. About 11:30 I stuck my head in and said let’s go to bed. There he was with glass of scotch in one hand and our mutual fund statements in the other. So it seems he has reached the planning stage.

I will get in front of the Director of Health Services as soon as I can get an appointment. Time to make them aware of the events beyond the driving issue. Never in a million years thought I’d end up in this situation.

 

[clifffaith]

I absolutely agree with @b2bailey and with your own assessment @clifffaith- just let that deadline come and go.

1. His primary care provider is the doctor who is thinking most holistically about his care and well being. This is the person who already has thought through this issue and know he should lose his license

2. His oncologist might not want to get involved in any way, since he/she does not have the expertise to make a cognitive assessment and also hasn't done so. This puts them outside their area of expertise. Pet owners ask me about things unrelated to neurology all the time. I tell them "I am not the person to help you with that". Period. End of story. Why? Because: Really. I should not be telling what kind of heartworm preventative to give your dog. I do not keep up with the latest on that subject

3. You don't know what the oncologist will do? What if they decide to be "helpful"? But to them being "helpful" is saying Cliff can drive because they know getting to the appointments in Irvine is a logistical problem for yall

4. You can move on and switch to closer doctors which will help you navigate the complexity of getting him to appointments

@clifffaith I know your head is spinning right now and you're dealing with a lot of confusing things that makes it hard to know the best path. But trust your instincts on this decision and just let the opportunity for dispute expire.

Thank you, thank you. I’ll let September 19th take its natural course and I at this point we won’t even go to the Monday oncologist appointment. I’ll get a telemedicine appointment with him later in the week. Reading the scans as they come in, I see the same findings as the May scans, and the bloodwork is actually better, so I assume the plan of action is to keep monitoring him. Buys us time to get appointments with an oncologist and urologist who work out of our local hospital.

 

[susieq]

Thank you, thank you. I’ll let September 19th take its natural course and I at this point we won’t even go to the Monday oncologist appointment. I’ll get a telemedicine appointment with him later in the week. Reading the scans as they come in, I see the same findings as the May scans, and the bloodwork is actually better, so I assume the plan of action is to keep monitoring him. Buys us time to get appointments with an oncologist and urologist who work out of our local hospital.

Oh Faith,
My heart goes out to you for having to go through this. May you find the strength you surly need. I pray to God I never have to face the same. Peace..............

 

[lockewong]

He came home from poker last night at 8:30 and immediately got into bed. He hasn’t played in months, now suddenly he’s playing again and asked if we could start eating earlier so he can “get there on time”. He never gets anywhere without me pushing him out the door, but fine we’ll eat earlier. Jim, our friend who spoke with him the other afternoon, reported to me that Cliff won a little money and payed the game ok, but had difficulties counting his money at the end and didn’t want help.

An hour later he was up and in our office. About 11:30 I stuck my head in and said let’s go to bed. There he was with glass of scotch in one hand and our mutual fund statements in the other. So it seems he has reached the planning stage.

I will get in front of the Director of Health Services as soon as I can get an appointment. Time to make them aware of the events beyond the driving issue. Never in a million years thought I’d end up in this situation.

I am so sorry to hear about this turn of events. I cannot imagine how hard and emotional this is for you as you continue to be the supportive, caring, loving spouse that you always have been. I remember how hard you worked to move to this community and how right it felt for you. Hopefully, you have friends that you can just go over and cry on their shoulders because you need support, too and a good friend. Perhaps you need to call the sister-in-law in Texas and get their actual and physical intervention as well because they are not living this 24/7 as you are. Big hugs to you.

 

[wackymother]

An hour later he was up and in our office. About 11:30 I stuck my head in and said let’s go to bed. There he was with glass of scotch in one hand and our mutual fund statements in the other. So it seems he has reached the planning stage.

I will get in front of the Director of Health Services as soon as I can get an appointment. Time to make them aware of the events beyond the driving issue. Never in a million years thought I’d end up in this situation.

I think you better lock down your financial accounts. He could start making changes.

We have investments w Vanguard, and they let you name a "trusted contact" for them to call if you suddenly start making uncharacteristic money changes. That's for situations just like this.

 

[rapmarks]

I think you better lock down your financial accounts. He could start making changes.

We have investments w Vanguard, and they let you name a "trusted contact" for them to call if you suddenly start making uncharacteristic money changes. That's for situations just like this.

I made that agreement with our broker as my husband’s illness progressed

 

[jules54]

I’m so sorry this is happening to you. Have you considered selling all your other real estate? Do you really need the expenses and stress of keeping those? Next time your husband mentions divorce give him a list of divorce attorneys and see where he goes with it. Get those financial matters taken care of Now. Why does he need an ATM card? I know he is prideful, but don’t let his pride give you a nervous breakdown. I hope you have some type of support group you can attend. People who have experienced what you’re going through give the best advice. I assume you have POA and if you don’t have a conservatorship over him you should think about that also.

Please take care of yourself and watch for signs of aggression. I understand it might be unbelievable to you but people with dementia kill their spouses because they believe they are the devil etc. My Mom kept a butcher knife and a toy gun in her bedroom because she thought people were trying to kill her.

 

[rapmarks]

Because people with dementia have good days and bad days, you tend to be optimistic
You need to take more things out of the wallet. Maybe just a photo copy of his id, a debit card with a small amount, some cash by not a lot. Plus a tracking device
If I think back to how many times my husband lost his wallet and keys and the anxiety it caused !
Once he woke me up at 2 am because he couldn’t find his wallet . we searched and searched. At five am, I called the gas station where we had filled up but they didn’t have it
He went to check the car in the garage again, and I dozed off on the sofa. it was over an hour later when he came back in. I said did you find your wallet. He said what do you mean, it’s right here in my pocket.
A counselor told me her father said I put my wallet in a safe place, he had flushed it down the toilet. After I heard that, everything important was removed from my husband’s wallet

 

[Tia]

.... watch for signs of aggression. I understand it might be unbelievable to you but people with dementia kill their spouses because they believe they are the devil etc. .....

This is very important and true , physically attack and injure in a fit of anger.

 

[clifffaith]

This is very important and true , physically attack and injure in a fit of anger.

Our doctor touched her cheek and mentioned she’d been hit while telling someone he could no longer drive. My BIL told me to try to stand off set and more than an arms length away in case he lashes out.

I go along as if everything is normal. I set out his cereal fruit in the morning, either make a reservation for dinner downstairs or place an order to bring it home, and get him to the social activities we do together. I am working on getting him a urologist and oncologist at our medical center fifteen minutes away. On the other hand I hear from his sister that he is planning to move to Texas where she and his brother are, and that he has asked his brother if he can live with him. His widowed brother has like ten kids and tons of grandkids and always has someone living with him, so that was a no go. Sister has changed her tune from “take his keys” to “don’t deny him, it’s only a car if he wrecks it”, which is bizarre. Obviously she now fears he will become her problem, just like their crazy cousin who they will be bringing from Oregon to Texas at the end of the month to be near them because they are the only living relatives.

 

[rapmarks]

Our doctor touched her cheek and mentioned she’d been hit while telling someone he could no longer drive. My BIL told me to try to stand off set and more than an arms length away in case he lashes out.

I go along as if everything is normal. I set out his cereal fruit in the morning, either make a reservation for dinner downstairs or place an order to bring it home, and get him to the social activities we do together. I am working on getting him a urologist and oncologist at our medical center fifteen minutes away. On the other hand I hear from his sister that he is planning to move to Texas where she and his brother are, and that he has asked his brother if he can live with him. His widowed brother has like ten kids and tons of grandkids and always has someone living with him, so that was a no go. Sister has changed her tune from “take his keys” to “don’t deny him, it’s only a car if he wrecks it”, which is bizarre. Obviously she now fears he will become her problem, just like their crazy cousin who they will be bringing from Oregon to Texas at the end of the month to be near them because they are the only living relatives.

Omg, the sister in law who apparently doesn’t care if he kills someone.

Has he accused you of having a boyfriend yet? I got that and I stole all his money. Plus I paid them off to take his license away. The golden years!

 

[clifffaith]

Omg, the sister in law who apparently doesn’t care if he kills someone.

Has he accused you of having a boyfriend yet? I got that and I stole all his money. Plus I paid them off to take his license away. The golden years!

No boyfriend. Just lying to the doctor about his driving and cognitive abilities!

 

[heathpack]

Omg, the sister in law who apparently doesn’t care if he kills someone.

Has he accused you of having a boyfriend yet? I got that and I stole all his money. Plus I paid them off to take his license away. The golden years!

We have some good family friend who I’ve known my whole life. For around a decade, the husband has not been speaking to the wife because she “has a boyfriend”. She blind and 95 years old. Can’t drive. Never leaves the same house the he lives in with her. Yet somehow she “has a boyfriend”.

 

[rapmarks]

We have some good family friend who I’ve known my whole life. For around a decade, the husband has not been speaking to the wife because she “has a boyfriend”. She blind and 95 years old. Can’t drive. Never leaves the same house the he lives in with her. Yet somehow she “has a boyfriend”.

It is probably the guy he sees in the mirror

 

[moonstone]

it’s only a car if he wrecks it”

What a thing to say! As rapmarks says he could kill somebody. An elderly man with dementia did just that on a divided highway near us a year ago. He entered the highway going the wrong direction and hit a car head on killing the 2 front seat occupants. A back seat passenger said the car rounded a bend and there was a car driving fast in their lane, the driver had no time to react. There was no alcohol involved.

I am not sure how elderly drivers are tested or assessed in your state but up here there isnt much cognitive or reflex speed testing. My mom passed her over 80 yrs old mandatory drivers license renewal test just weeks before she got lost for over 7 hrs because she couldnt remember the 8 mile drive from town to the cottage that she had been doing for over 50 years. When a doctor diagnoses a person with any form of dementia, or sees a marked slowing of reflexes, he should notify the licensing bureau to have the license suspended, but it seems many doctors dont want to be 'the bad guy'. When I took my moms DL away I also took her car key because I knew she wouldnt remember that she had no license in her wallet (that she realized when getting a credit card out one day) or even to check for it.

~Diane