Alleged Service Dogs at Desert Springs Villas

[noreenkate]

Owner trained service dogs (those that haven't undergone training with an accredited organisation) are generally not considered service dogs and are treated as pets

The reason they allow for owner trained service dogs is the cost-
Curious how the cost of an accredited service dog there vs US….

 

[hcarman]

We were at Westin Mission Hills a couple of years ago and there was a yapper in one of the units. It was obvious that the dog was left on it's own while the owners were out. Several of the guests came out to check and called the front desk, including ourselves. Security came out and identified the unit. The following morning everyone in the unit was gone, presumably expelled.

Gee - can we do that when we have children above us screaming and banging?

 

[hcarman]

Through various articles and ADA rule readings over the years, I found the following interesting:

1. If a person needs a service animal, it needs to be with them continuously. That is, they can't go out to dinner and leave the dog on the deck or alone in the unit.
2. If a dog is causing a nuisance like barking (without reason/performing a service) or threatening people, the owner can be directed to remove it from the property - - even if it IS an actual service dog.

Last year at Marriott Newport Coast, when we were out on the lanai, the dog from the adjacent unit would bark at us continuously. It was really annoying. The owners weren't doing much, if anything, to quiet the dog. We called security and when they knocked on the neighbor's door, the dog started barking at the door ferociously. So, much for the ruse of pretending to have a service animal. They were gone within the hour and the next day Marriott did a deep cleaning of their unit. That has got to be an expensive lesson.

Not sure this is always true anymore. We have a neighbor that uses a service dog for night time PTSD and anxiety. He is ex-military. Obviously he would not need to have the dog at dinner with him for performance of this task.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Not sure this is always true anymore. We have a neighbor that uses a service dog for night time PTSD and anxiety. He is ex-military. Obviously he would not need to have the dog at dinner with him for performance of this task.

I looked at the ADA website (https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/) and saw the following Q&A

"Q29. Are hotel guests allowed to leave their service animals in their hotel room when they leave the hotel?
A. No, the dog must be under the handler’s control at all times."

 

[sponger76]

Not sure this is always true anymore. We have a neighbor that uses a service dog for night time PTSD and anxiety. He is ex-military. Obviously he would not need to have the dog at dinner with him for performance of this task.

As a service member myself with multiple deployments resulting in PTSD, and also knowing MANY fellow service member with PTSD,it is never just a night-time thing, so that makes no sense.

 

[Pompey Family]

The reason they allow for owner trained service dogs is the cost-
Curious how the cost of an accredited service dog there vs US….

There was absolutely no cost to me for my service dog, all costs were covered by the organisation. Once she was acredited then all costs were taken up by me. Most of the organisations I know of in the US operate similarly. Of course almost all such organisations require proof of your disability prior to joining the programme. That in itself speaks volumes.

 

[noreenkate]

There was absolutely no cost to me for my service dog, all costs were covered by the organisation. Once she was acredited then all costs were taken up by me. Most of the organisations I know of in the US operate similarly. Of course almost all such organisations require proof of your disability prior to joining the programme. That in itself speaks volumes.

At the grandkids school here in TN they were fundraising for 3 years to help one of the students to cover the cost of her service dog it was nearly 40k

 

[Pompey Family]

At the grandkids school here in TN they were fundraising for 3 years to help one of the students to cover the cost of her service dog it was nearly 40k

That figure doesn't surprise me. Most of the organisations providing service dogs are charities. The training programme I undertook was 12 months long and was funded solely by charitable donations. The majority of the staff are volunteers and without them the charity couldn't operate. It does mean that inevitably some people who are in need of a service dog are unable to make it onto the programme simply due to financial and staffing constraints however the issue with training your own dog is that there is no way of ensuring that the dog has been trained to a proper standard. Organisations that have been accredited by Assistance Dogs International for example have demonstrated that their training methods meet the required standard. Most countries in Europe require a service dog to be formally accredited by certain organisations and usually they will not certify owner trained dogs and this means that there isn't a problem with people passing off their pets as service dogs.

 

[vol_90]

Another service dog story https://news.yahoo.com/news/lifestyle/passenger-furious-over-being-forced-215800864.html

 

[Pompey Family]

I don't know about the US airlines as I haven't flown with any for a long time but certainly UK airlines and some European ones that I've flown require you notify them at the time of booking your flight that you will be travelling with a service dog. That way it isn't a surprise when you turn up at the airport. BA's rules stipulate that a service dog can fly for free if it is able to sit at you feet, if it is too large to do so then an extra seat will be required for which there will be a fee.

Of course none of us can say whether the dog in the picture is a genuine service dog but I suspect most of us, myself included, would have our suspicions that it's not. Seeing service dogs on aircraft in Europe is such a rarity that there isn't that sense of suspicion that there is in the US.

I'm just glad I'm not living in the US with my service dog as I don't think I could handle the constant niggling thoughts that people might think you're dog is a faux service dog.

 

[Superchief]

I was in a bulkhead seat on a flight and sat next to an officer with a German Shepherd. The dog was returning from a school where he had been trained to sniff explosives. He quietly sat on the floor between us and I wasn't required to move. I don't understand why the animal would require a whole first class seat.

 

[noreenkate]

I don't know about the US airlines as I haven't flown with any for a long time but certainly UK airlines and some European ones that I've flown require you notify them at the time of booking your flight that you will be travelling with a service dog.

Trained Service Animals | Delta Air Lines

Find guidance on flying with service and support animals on Delta. Review eligibility and find links to DOT air travel and relief attestation forms.

www.delta.com

Department of Transportation regulations requiring forms for service dog air travel…
Here is the thing if this is not a service dog signing those for is a federal offense.

I don't understand why the animal would require a whole first class seat.

We don’t know from the article that the dogs handler had not purchased a 1st class ticket- only that the disgruntled passenger was given a last minute upgrade than downgraded.

 

[bazzap]

I don't know about the US airlines as I haven't flown with any for a long time but certainly UK airlines and some European ones that I've flown require you notify them at the time of booking your flight that you will be travelling with a service dog. That way it isn't a surprise when you turn up at the airport. BA's rules stipulate that a service dog can fly for free if it is able to sit at you feet, if it is too large to do so then an extra seat will be required for which there will be a fee.

Of course none of us can say whether the dog in the picture is a genuine service dog but I suspect most of us, myself included, would have our suspicions that it's not. Seeing service dogs on aircraft in Europe is such a rarity that there isn't that sense of suspicion that there is in the US.

I'm just glad I'm not living in the US with my service dog as I don't think I could handle the constant niggling thoughts that people might think you're dog is a faux service dog.

It is definitely very rare outside of the US.
We fly at least 12 times a year and have done for many many years mostly in Europe, Asia, Caribbean… with Easyjet, BA, Lufthansa, SwissAir, Qatar, Emirates, Malaysian Airlines, Thai Airways, Singapore Airlines… and we have still never seen a single Service Dog on any of these planes.

 

[Superchief]

Trained Service Animals | Delta Air Lines

Find guidance on flying with service and support animals on Delta. Review eligibility and find links to DOT air travel and relief attestation forms.

www.delta.com

Department of Transportation regulations requiring forms for service dog air travel…
Here is the thing if this is not a service dog signing those for is a federal offense.

We don’t know from the article that the dogs handler had not purchased a 1st class ticket- only that the disgruntled passenger was given a last minute upgrade than downgraded.

I highly doubt that the handler purchased two first class seats. I've observed several dogs of similar size laying on the floor in front of and between seats, while another passenger sat in the adjacent seat. The airline should ask the other passenger if they were willing to sit near the dog and be allowed to keep their seat if acceptable. In coach bulkhead seats, the middle seat could be blocked for the floor space, but it makes no sense to block a first class seat so the dog could lay on the floor.

My 90 lb pit would prefer to sit on my lap, so she wouldn't even need floor space or an additional seat.

 

[noreenkate]

I highly doubt that the handler purchased two first class seats. I've observed several dogs of similar size laying on the floor in front of and between seats, while another passenger sat in the adjacent seat. The airline should ask the other passenger if they were willing to sit near the dog and be allowed to keep their seat if acceptable. In coach bulkhead seats, the middle seat could be blocked for the floor space, but it makes no sense to block a first class seat so the dog could lay on the floor.

My 90 lb pit would prefer to sit on my lap, so she wouldn't even need floor space or an additional seat.

Look I don’t know if they did or didn’t- is it possible yes is it probably who knows…Certain airlines/airplanes I will only fly in first, although I don’t have a service dog, I choose first as it’s more accommodating and I don’t have to deal with the disability pre-boarding process. The difference is people flying with a service dog have to get registration paperwork done about the service dog before the dog can fly. Someone at Delta made a decision about the dog and didn’t classify it as a “pet”
What I am saying is maybe a last minute upgrade shouldn’t have been assigned in the first place and Delta did what they could to rectify the situation immediately.
If Delta decides to look into it and finds it wasn’t a service dog than that person should deal with the DOT consequences. IMO either way the guy is wrong for starting a reddit post instead of addressing it with the airline immediately. That to me is plain old sour grapes.

 

[WorldT]

I was reading a review of another timeshare. One of the reviewers was very happy with the larger space because his TWO SERVICE dogs were with him. I have met many true service dogs having worked in retail for a while. But I am yet to meet someone who has two of them at the same time.

 

[vol_90]

Apologies if this has already been posted in the tread. Heading to Grand Vista next week and received a resort update e-mail which included the following:

 

[dioxide45]

Apologies if this has already been posted in the tread. Heading to Grand Vista next week and received a resort update e-mail which included the following:
View attachment 104160

This seems to be the standard policy. The problem is some people lie or hide their pet to get them into the resort.

 

[dioxide45]

Apologies if this has already been posted in the tread. Heading to Grand Vista next week and received a resort update e-mail which included the following:
View attachment 104160

If you’ll still be in Orlando the week of MLK holiday it would be great to see you at the Orlando TUG meetup.

TUG 2025 Orlando Get Together Wednesday, January 22, at 3pm

Let's get the ball rolling! Wednesday, January 22, at 3pm Golden Coral 8707 Vineland Avenue Orlando, FL 32821

tugbbs.com

 

[VacationForever]

We are at Desert Springs Villas 1 since before the new year. The first day we saw a dog bowl outside the unit next door (outside the 2BR villa main door). Within our room we could hear barking regularly. Then we heard loud barking outside our unit and we both headed outside to find this 30+/40+ year old male with a barking dog. My husband said to him that pets are not allowed. This guy said it's a service animal. My husband asked what does the service animal do. He said for diabetes. My husband said, Bulls because we have a friend who does exactly the same thing with her pet. He said I have registration with papers, and we said so can anyone with a pet. He asked if we were going to report him to the police. Anyway, we saw this guy with his dog again, often not on leash and yapping and totally untrained several times when we went out. He checked out the day after the new year and he glared at me when he was loading up his car as I happened to be out disposing trash. He had a leash in his hand but no dog.

Now here is what got interesting. That unit has been left empty and 2 days ago, there was serious hosing, almost pressure washing noise level outside our unit. We came out later and the door was opened and they were washing the floors not only outside our units, but of that entire unit as the door was opened. I wonder if someone reported a pet in that room and he got kicked out somehow and housekeeping was now washing that unit. It was wet. Not just cleaning, but washing. Maybe they found dog poop in the room. I will never know.

 

[dioxide45]

We are at Desert Springs Villas 1 since before the new year. The first day we saw a dog bowl outside the unit next door (outside the 2BR villa main door). Within our room we could hear barking regularly. Then were heard loud barking outside our unit and we both headed outside to find this 30+/40+ year old male with a barking dog. My husband said to him that pets are not allowed. This guy said it's a service animal. My husband asked what does the service animal do. He said for diabetes. My husband said, Bulls because we have a friend who does exactly the same thing with her pet. He said I have registration with papers, and we said so can anyone with a pet. He asked if we are going to report him to the police. Anyway, we saw this guy with his dog again, often not on leash and yapping and totally untrained several times when we went out. He checked out the day after the new year and he glared at me when he was loading up his car as I happened to be out disposing trash. He had a leash in his hand but no dog.

Now here is what got interesting. That unit has been left empty and 2 days ago, there was serious hosing, almost pressure washing noise level outside our unit. We came out later and the door was opened and they were washing the floors not only outside our units, but of that entire unit as the door was opened. I wonder if someone reported a pet in that room and he got kicked out somehow and housekeeping was now washing that unit. It was wet. Not just cleaning, but washing. Maybe they found dog poop in the room. I will never know.

Was it just your standard kinda deep clean carpet cleaners? I know they do that after an room with a service animal is vacated.

 

[geist1223]

A Trained Service Animal does not Bark unless there is a true Emergency. Once at Worldmark Seaside a Unit down the Hall had a Barking Dog. The people would leave the Dog alone in the Unit. Patti decided the next time that happened she would call 911 with the reasonable explanation that there must be a true emergency if a trained service dog was barking.

 

[Sandy VDH]

There is so much abuse. Please stop bringing ESA or just plain pets and claim they are Service Dogs.

It just makes me see red.

I had a certified Therapy dog that was my personal pet. Now a therapy dog is not an ESA or Service dog. It is a trained and certified dog that can be used for other people's therapy, like visiting a hospital or senior center. I did when my dog was a working Therapy dog. We had to go through a certification program. They have to be calm around strangers and strange events, and even other animals. I could get my dog to go into a down, off leash, outside of a starbucks. I could go in order coffee, pop into the restroom, wait for my coffee. When I got outside that dog would still be sitting in their down.

I also had a new neighbor I meet while on a walk. I stopped and talked to her. Her 4 year old was with her. As we were chatting the 4 year old plopped herself on the ground directly in front of the dog and was rubbing the dogs soft ears against her face. Mind you my dog had never met these people and the child was basically playing with his ears because they were soft. He just sat there and licked her face occasionally.

This is how chill my dog was.

I was staying in a pet friendly hotel in Toronto, and I was checking in. I had my pet with me, I was checking in and paying a pet fee.

While I was in line to check in, and my dog was lying on the cold tile floor on his belly, (it was hot outside and this way a nice way to cool himself down), the elevator opened up and a small dog wearing a Service Dog Vest, on one of those slinky leashes comes barreling out, barking and straining on the lead, and runs up to my dog and bites him in the butt. Honestly I think the dog mostly got a mouth full of fur. My dog just looked at him, like are you stupid. He didn't even get up off the ground. He didn't growl. The owner ran over and picked up their service dog. Then tried blaming me for their dog's behavior, because my dog's leash was just sitting on the floor and not in my hand. I just looked at her and said, "We both know that is NO service dog", and I just moved up to the desk to check in and said nothing else.

My Therapy dog which was NOT a service dog, but better trained and behaving than their alleged Service Dog.

These people who pass off their pets as service animals are just entitled as**ole, who think that breaking rules are just fine provided if is in their benefit.

 

[daviator]

There was somebody at Westin Desert Willow with a small chihuahua a couple weeks ago when we were there, I saw him walking the dog (off leash!) on the property multiple times. If I could have seen which room he came from I'd have reported him to management, there's no way that was a service animal.

 

[VacationForever]

Was it just your standard kinda deep clean carpet cleaners? I know they do that after an room with a service animal is vacated.

I doubt very much he even reported his dog as a "service" animal with the resort. He did not say that he told Marriott that he had a service animal. Our friend went to a similar fake "service animal" registration website and got "papers" and a "service animal" vest. These days with CGM (continuous glucose monitoring) device, it is far better to have that than a dog trained for that. In fact our friend would say the same thing that her dog did "diabetes monitoring". She asked the dog trainer if her dog could be trained for anything, and the trainer said no. It became an obedience training course instead of service animal training.