You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[emeryjre]

quick use of some basic AI for how many feet I will have traveled going from zero to 60 MPH in 3.5 seconds

Distance traveled accelerating 0–60 mph in 3.5 seconds

Assuming constant acceleration, which is how these calculations are normally done:

Step 1 — Convert 60 mph to ft/s

(60 \text{ mph} = 88 \text{ ft/s})

Step 2 — Compute acceleration

[a = \frac{v}{t} = \frac{88}{3.5} \approx 25.14 \text{ ft/s}^2]

Step 3 — Compute distance​

[d = \tfrac{1}{2} a t^2]

[d = 0.5 \cdot 25.14 \cdot (3.5)^2]

[d \approx 153.6 \text{ feet}]

Final Answer

You’ll travel about 154 feet.

I will have gone half the distance of a football field in 3.5 seconds and still accelerating if I overtwist the throttle

 

[easyrider]

I have since spoken to Oscar
He said if I have valid California Motor Cycle License,
Come to the showing they are having in LA on 1/17
At Bike Shed Moto Company
They will test my skills in the parking lot
If I can past their skills test
And the credit check
I am good to take it out on their test route

The credit check is not a problem

I have not ridden a super-fast crotch rocket in about 25 years
The skills test might be a challenge
It is a "twitchy" ride compared to a Gold Wing Honda according to them
They mention how quick it is
3.5 seconds to 60 MPH
The velocity and torque can push a person back so quick
There isn't time to turn the throttle down and recover

A Honda Superbike does 0 to 60 in about 3.2 seconds
(CBR1000RR)

Think the "idiot" videos showing people crashing doing car burnouts

They and I really don't want a crash and I hurt myself

You won't have a problem riding the electric Mc, imo. If you can handle a Gold Wing you can handle the other. It's way lighter. Pegs verues foot board might be something to get use to. No shifting would throw me at first. When I test drive I sign a release and my Mc policy covers the demo regarding liability. I have progressive. If I wreck the demo Mc , the release says I'm responsible. I tend to stay in my comfort zone regarding the price of the Mc which seems lower than yours.

I hope you ride it and tell us all about it. What i heard about the Livewire is that it's fast and easy to control.

Bill

 

[Greg G]

quick use of some basic AI for how many feet I will have traveled going from zero to 60 MPH in 3.5 seconds

What, you didn't figure this out yourself using basic Calculus

If acceleration is a constant = a and velocity at time t is v(t)
then d(v(t))/dt = a (i.e. the derivative of the velocity with respect to time is the acceleration) --> Integral (d(v(t))/dt) = v(t) + C = Integral (a) = a*t + C1 ---> v(t) = a*t + C2

Now if the distance you are at time t is x(t) then d(x(t))/dt = v(t) (i.e. the derivative of the distance with respect to time is the velocity) --->
Integral ( d(x(t))/dt) = x(t) + C3 = Integral ( a*t + C2) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C4 ---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C5.

Now using the initial conditions of distance at time 0 is 0 which means x(0) = 0 and velocity at time 0 is 0 which means v(0) = 0 --->
x(0) = 0 = a*(0^2/ 2) + C2*0 + C5. = C5 = 0 and v(0) = 0 = a*0 + C2 = C2

---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2)

So if v(t) = 60 mph for t= 3.5 seconds then v(3.5 sec) = 60mph = a* 3.5sec ---> a = 60mph/3.5sec = 60mph * 5280 feet/mile * (1 hour/3600 seconds)/ 3.5 secs = 25.14 feet/sec/sec

and x(3.5 sec) = a*(3.5sec^2/2) = 25.14 feet/sec/sec * (6.125 sec*sec) = 154 feet.

 

[emeryjre]

What, you didn't figure this out yourself using basic Calculus

If acceleration is a constant = a and velocity at time t is v(t)
then d(v(t))/dt = a (i.e. the derivative of the velocity with respect to time is the acceleration) --> Integral (d(v(t))/dt) = v(t) + C = Integral (a) = a*t + C1 ---> v(t) = a*t + C2

Now if the distance you are at time t is x(t) then d(x(t))/dt = v(t) (i.e. the derivative of the distance with respect to time is the velocity) --->
Integral ( d(x(t))/dt) = x(t) + C3 = Integral ( a*t + C2) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C4 ---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C5.

Now using the initial conditions of distance at time 0 is 0 which means x(0) = 0 and velocity at time 0 is 0 which means v(0) = 0 --->
x(0) = 0 = a*(0^2/ 2) + C2*0 + C5. = C5 = 0 and v(0) = 0 = a*0 + C2 = C2

---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2)

So if v(t) = 60 mph for t= 3.5 seconds then v(3.5 sec) = 60mph = a* 3.5sec ---> a = 60mph/3.5sec = 60mph * 5280 feet/mile * (1 hour/3600 seconds)/ 3.5 secs = 25.14 feet/sec/sec

and x(3.5 sec) = a*(3.5sec^2/2) = 25.14 feet/sec/sec * (6.125 sec*sec) = 154 feet.

Nice

Mine was done the way students are learning today

Aboard Modern Aircraft Carriers there is an area below the bridge with a group of people with sextants, charts, compasses, etc., etc. that can navigate in the event there is a loss of our military grade GPS satellites

It is operational 24/7 I understand

All hands-on deck prepared when pulling into port

You are part of the team for checking the math of AI

 

[PigsDad]

What, you didn't figure this out yourself using basic Calculus

If acceleration is a constant = a and velocity at time t is v(t)
then d(v(t))/dt = a (i.e. the derivative of the velocity with respect to time is the acceleration) --> Integral (d(v(t))/dt) = v(t) + C = Integral (a) = a*t + C1 ---> v(t) = a*t + C2

Now if the distance you are at time t is x(t) then d(x(t))/dt = v(t) (i.e. the derivative of the distance with respect to time is the velocity) --->
Integral ( d(x(t))/dt) = x(t) + C3 = Integral ( a*t + C2) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C4 ---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C5.

Now using the initial conditions of distance at time 0 is 0 which means x(0) = 0 and velocity at time 0 is 0 which means v(0) = 0 --->
x(0) = 0 = a*(0^2/ 2) + C2*0 + C5. = C5 = 0 and v(0) = 0 = a*0 + C2 = C2

---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2)

So if v(t) = 60 mph for t= 3.5 seconds then v(3.5 sec) = 60mph = a* 3.5sec ---> a = 60mph/3.5sec = 60mph * 5280 feet/mile * (1 hour/3600 seconds)/ 3.5 secs = 25.14 feet/sec/sec

and x(3.5 sec) = a*(3.5sec^2/2) = 25.14 feet/sec/sec * (6.125 sec*sec) = 154 feet.

Ouch. That made my head hurt.

As did so many others working toward engineering / science degrees, I had to take Calculus in college. But to be honest, in my whole career in Software Engineering, I never had to apply it.

Kurt

 

[buzglyd]

What, you didn't figure this out yourself using basic Calculus

If acceleration is a constant = a and velocity at time t is v(t)
then d(v(t))/dt = a (i.e. the derivative of the velocity with respect to time is the acceleration) --> Integral (d(v(t))/dt) = v(t) + C = Integral (a) = a*t + C1 ---> v(t) = a*t + C2

Now if the distance you are at time t is x(t) then d(x(t))/dt = v(t) (i.e. the derivative of the distance with respect to time is the velocity) --->
Integral ( d(x(t))/dt) = x(t) + C3 = Integral ( a*t + C2) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C4 ---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2) + C2*t + C5.

Now using the initial conditions of distance at time 0 is 0 which means x(0) = 0 and velocity at time 0 is 0 which means v(0) = 0 --->
x(0) = 0 = a*(0^2/ 2) + C2*0 + C5. = C5 = 0 and v(0) = 0 = a*0 + C2 = C2

---> x(t) = a*(t^2/ 2)

So if v(t) = 60 mph for t= 3.5 seconds then v(3.5 sec) = 60mph = a* 3.5sec ---> a = 60mph/3.5sec = 60mph * 5280 feet/mile * (1 hour/3600 seconds)/ 3.5 secs = 25.14 feet/sec/sec

and x(3.5 sec) = a*(3.5sec^2/2) = 25.14 feet/sec/sec * (6.125 sec*sec) = 154 feet.

NHRA Top Fuel and Funny car travel 1000 ft in 3.8 seconds or so. Really puts it into perspective. 3.5 seconds to 60 is quick but there are many motorcycles capable of this. I've never seen a case for an electric motorcycle making sense. Even my beast of a BMW K1600 gets nearly 40 MPG and small displacement motorcycles get a lot more.

I tend to use motorcycles for the road less-traveled. There aren't any chargers out there.

 

[HitchHiker71]

quick use of some basic AI for how many feet I will have traveled going from zero to 60 MPH in 3.5 seconds

Not really all that fast these days with EVs. Our MY LR with the Accel Boost package gets to 60mph in well under four seconds for example - figure 3.7-3.8 seconds on average. The official number is 4.2 seconds, but C&D tested the MY LR w/o the boost package at 3.9x seconds already, so adding the boost package shaves a few tenths off of that time. I'm honestly a bit surprised it's only 3.5 seconds for a bike, that's not as quick as I'd expect.

 

[buzglyd]

Not really all that fast these days with EVs. Our MY LR with the Accel Boost package gets to 60mph in well under four seconds for example - figure 3.7-3.8 seconds on average. The official number is 4.2 seconds, but C&D tested the MY LR w/o the boost package at 3.9x seconds already, so adding the boost package shaves a few tenths off of that time. I'm honestly a bit surprised it's only 3.5 seconds for a bike, that's not as quick as I'd expect.

Cars don't wheelie. Motorcycles do so they likely had to soften the hit.

 

[easyrider]

NHRA Top Fuel and Funny car travel 1000 ft in 3.8 seconds or so. Really puts it into perspective. 3.5 seconds to 60 is quick but there are many motorcycles capable of this. I've never seen a case for an electric motorcycle making sense. Even my beast of a BMW K1600 gets nearly 40 MPG and small displacement motorcycles get a lot more.

I tend to use motorcycles for the road less-traveled. There aren't any chargers out there.

Yup, an ev motorcycle wouldnt work for me because of where i ride. I have a range of 220 miles so on some trips i bring a gas bag.

Bill

 

[PigsDad]

Yup, an ev motorcycle wouldnt work for me because of where i ride. I have a range of 220 miles so on some trips i bring a gas bag.

And the EV bike mentioned earlier here has a range of 370 miles. Will probably work for 99.9% of riders.

Kurt

 

[buzglyd]

And the EV bike mentioned earlier here has a range of 370 miles. Will probably work for 99.9% of riders.

Kurt

I’ll bet those claims are wildly exaggerated

 

[easyrider]

And the EV bike mentioned earlier here has a range of 370 miles. Will probably work for 99.9% of riders.

Kurt

I hadnt considered that. I wonder how much the range diminishes with a fully loaded mc with three 40 litter paniers and a large windshied.

For me, i need reliability and the BMW 1200 gs is one of the most reliable adventure mc ever made. My other mc is a KLR 650 which is also very reliable.

What i want to do is to get rid of both and buy a smaller enduro.

Bill

 

[HitchHiker71]

I’ll bet those claims are wildly exaggerated

If it really has a true solid-state battery, as is being claimed, at 400wh/kg I wouldn't say it's exaggerated. Like anything, it'll vary dependent upon usage, terrain, weather, etc., though SSBs are much less prone to variances like this when compared to current jelly roll based batteries.

 

[emeryjre]

I’ll bet those claims are wildly exaggerated

I am sure the first buyers of the bike are Chinese Battery Manufacturers

I will keep track of Verge Motorcycles closely

Whether I will be able to get to the showing in LA is still up in the air

The big question on everybody's mind is how much is fluff vs how much is real

And not about the bike

Not really all that fast these days with EVs. Our MY LR with the Accel Boost package gets to 60mph in well under four seconds for example - figure 3.7-3.8 seconds on average. The official number is 4.2 seconds, but C&D tested the MY LR w/o the boost package at 3.9x seconds already, so adding the boost package shaves a few tenths off of that time. I'm honestly a bit surprised it's only 3.5 seconds for a bike, that's not as quick as I'd expect.

How does that compare to the Plaid or Lucid Sapphire in the real world

 

[davidvel]

I doubt that. The mc dealer has the right to refuse test drives based on their opinion of a riders ability or experience. Most Mc dealers are very picky about test drives.

Bill

They originally said it was due to his age, not lack of skills. But thanks for your legal opinion on the matter counselor. It is as erroneous as ever.

 

[easyrider]

They originally said it was due to his age, not lack of skills. But thanks for your legal opinion on the matter counselor. It is as erroneous as ever.

Age is definitly a reason that disqualifies a rider to demo a motorcycle. Under age and older age are valid reasons to say no. With older age, a rider can be allowed to demo if they can prove their abilty to ride and agree to accepting responsibility for damages.

With any age, a motorcycle dealer has the right to deny any rider a demo based on their best guess of the riders ability.

Bill

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I have a range of 220 miles so on some trips i bring a gas bag

I never travel with my mother-in-law

 

[easyrider]

And the EV bike mentioned earlier here has a range of 370 miles. Will probably work for 99.9% of riders.

Kurt

The Harley Livewire has a 90 mile combined range. It takes 12 hours to charge. No one i know has bought one.

Idk about the other mc but for me its a big no for either regarding ownership.

Bill

 

[WaikikiFirst]

What, you didn't figure this out yourself using basic Calculus

I'm glad you did that. Somebody had to. I was SO tempted but I was going to let it pass.
Hint: when you see that (1/2) in front of the variable that gets "Squared", that highly indicates that you are working with the result of an integral. there are 2 Power Rules. That is one. God, I am glad they have those rules for calculus. Otherwise, it is exhausting after all these years.
Bernhard Reimann says "Hi". His bud Brook Taylor just entered the room.

It is an interesting discussion why an integral shows up there, but another time and place. (though I recommend everyone think about it, for some "math joy", eh Bernhard)

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Mine was done the way students are learning today

Boy, I can't imagine why you think that, but I fear you may actually be right. If all the great mathematicians in the histlry of the human race were born in teh last 20 yrs, instead of when they were actually born, I'll bet half of them would have failed math because they didn't "do math" the way the mostly competent math teacher was told they should, and the mostly incompetent math teacher had no idea what the great student was actually doing.

I had a looooooooooong conversation about this with teh School Superintendent when my kid was in the 5th grade, and was getting marked wrong for getting to the answers in the more fundamentally elegant way rather than the ham-handed way their math curriculum taught. The superintendent gave me examples of how their methods "worked". In every case, I gave him slightly-more-complicated examples where their methods failed.

Most pre-HS math taught in the US today should be called "Math For People Who Will Never Be Good At Math"

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Harley Livewire has a 90 mile combined range. It takes 12 hours to charge.

It blows my mind that a group of ENGINEERS would agree to design such a P-O-S. I know marketing people woudl want it, but "Come On You Engineers. Stop It"

 

[emeryjre]

It was 90's when I last drove a crotch rocket type bike

So I decided to search and see what time had done to overall acceleration using the 0-60 timed interval

Using Copilot I did a quick question about which production motorcycles were the quickest using verified results (Not mfg claims)

This is the list it came up with

The quickest verified 0–60 mph time for any production motorcycle is about 2.35 seconds,
achieved by the 2006 Suzuki GSX‑R1000
No currently sold production bike has a reliably documented time faster than that.


Below is a clean breakdown of what’s known from the most authoritative testing available.

---

Fastest 0–60 Times Ever Recorded for Production Motorcycles​

(All data from instrumented tests, not manufacturer claims.)

Absolute Fastest Recorded​

Motorcycle	0–60 mph Time	Notes
2006 Suzuki GSX‑R1000	2.35 sec Wikipedia	Fastest verified production-bike launch; achieved at a drag strip.

Other Extremely Fast Production Bikes​

These models have all been clocked between 2.47–2.60 seconds, depending on rider, surface, and test method.

Motorcycle	0–60 mph Time	Notes
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa	2.47 sec Wikipedia	Massive torque helps it launch hard.
2010 Yamaha VMAX	2.5 sec Wikipedia	Known for brutal straight‑line acceleration.
2014 Kawasaki Z1000	2.5 sec Wikipedia	Surprisingly quick for a naked bike.
2002 Kawasaki ZX‑12R	2.59 sec Wikipedia	Predecessor to the ZX‑14R.
Modern literbikes (ZX‑10R, S1000RR, CBR1000RR, R1)	2.6 sec Wikipedia	Electronics limit wheelies, not power.
Kawasaki Ninja H2	2.6 sec Wikipedia	Supercharged, but traction‑limited.

Even though modern superbikes make more power than the 2006 GSX‑R1000, they’re limited by:

• Wheelie control systems that reduce power off the line
• Traction limits from a short wheelbase
• Street tires that can’t fully use 200+ hp at low speed

In other words, today’s bikes are faster overall, but not necessarily quicker from 0–60.

Quick Takeaways

• Fastest ever tested: 2006 GSX‑R1000 at 2.35 sec Wikipedia
• Fastest modern bikes: typically 2.5–2.7 sec
• Electric bikes: Even the Lightning LS‑218 doesn’t have a verified sub‑2.4 sec run.
• Drag‑optimized bikes: Not counted unless street‑legal and mass‑produced.

 

[emeryjre]

Boy, I can't imagine why you think that, but I fear you may actually be right. If all the great mathematicians in the histlry of the human race were born in teh last 20 yrs, instead of when they were actually born, I'll bet half of them would have failed math because they didn't "do math" the way the mostly competent math teacher was told they should, and the mostly incompetent math teacher had no idea what they were actually doing.

I had a looooooooooong conversation about this with teh School Superintendent when my kid was in the 5th grade, and was getting marked wrong for getting to the answers in the more fundamentally elegant way rather than the ham-handed way their math curriculum taught. The superintendent gave me examples of how their methods "worked". In every case, I gave him slightly-more-complicated examples where their methods failed.

Most pre-HS math taught in the US today should be called "Math For People Who Will Never Be Good At Math"

I think that because I have nieces and nephews in high school and college prep classes in high school
They are all in the top 95% or higher percentile of their classes
All but one will pretty have a wide choice of colleges based on academic abilities
(the field will be limited by how much their parents will spend on a college education)

It is fascinating to get the perspective of people age 16-19 about AI and modern technology

It is fascinating to see how their teachers are dealing with the availability of AI in Math, English, and Chemistry classes
(This is all at the high school level)
They can never use AI in the classroom for tests or classes


They are all required to show proficiency live and in color during classes
(Not tests, but they are doing a lot of individual problem solving or short story writing during classes to prove they understand the material)

But they will use it in their own time
And they do understand the calculations being done
They are just not doing the busy work

One of my older nephews is a chief oncology pharmacist at a major cancer center in a large city
His descriptions of the use of AI using a high-priced medical AI are like science fiction
Punch in patient's data,
out come recommendations based on all available information currently known and, in the system,
Even last week's trial data somewhere in the world

His expertise comes from being able to understand the recommendations and why they are being given

But he is never stumbling around looking for the latest research or drugs (mainstream or otherwise)

Welcome to 2026

As exciting as the development of desktop computing was for me
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were the tech nerd heroes of my days

 

[buzglyd]

It was 90's when I last drove a crotch rocket type bike

So I decided to search and see what time had done to overall acceleration using the 0-60 timed interval

Using Copilot I did a quick question about which production motorcycles were the quickest using verified results (Not mfg claims)

This is the list it came up with

The quickest verified 0–60 mph time for any production motorcycle is about 2.35 seconds,
achieved by the 2006 Suzuki GSX‑R1000
No currently sold production bike has a reliably documented time faster than that.


Below is a clean breakdown of what’s known from the most authoritative testing available.

---

Fastest 0–60 Times Ever Recorded for Production Motorcycles​

(All data from instrumented tests, not manufacturer claims.)

Absolute Fastest Recorded​

Motorcycle	0–60 mph Time	Notes
2006 Suzuki GSX‑R1000	2.35 sec Wikipedia	Fastest verified production-bike launch; achieved at a drag strip.

Other Extremely Fast Production Bikes​

These models have all been clocked between 2.47–2.60 seconds, depending on rider, surface, and test method.

Motorcycle	0–60 mph Time	Notes
2002 Suzuki Hayabusa	2.47 sec Wikipedia	Massive torque helps it launch hard.
2010 Yamaha VMAX	2.5 sec Wikipedia	Known for brutal straight‑line acceleration.
2014 Kawasaki Z1000	2.5 sec Wikipedia	Surprisingly quick for a naked bike.
2002 Kawasaki ZX‑12R	2.59 sec Wikipedia	Predecessor to the ZX‑14R.
Modern literbikes (ZX‑10R, S1000RR, CBR1000RR, R1)	2.6 sec Wikipedia	Electronics limit wheelies, not power.
Kawasaki Ninja H2	2.6 sec Wikipedia	Supercharged, but traction‑limited.

Even though modern superbikes make more power than the 2006 GSX‑R1000, they’re limited by:

• Wheelie control systems that reduce power off the line
• Traction limits from a short wheelbase
• Street tires that can’t fully use 200+ hp at low speed

In other words, today’s bikes are faster overall, but not necessarily quicker from 0–60.

Quick Takeaways

• Fastest ever tested: 2006 GSX‑R1000 at 2.35 sec Wikipedia
• Fastest modern bikes: typically 2.5–2.7 sec
• Electric bikes: Even the Lightning LS‑218 doesn’t have a verified sub‑2.4 sec run.
• Drag‑optimized bikes: Not counted unless street‑legal and mass‑produced.

I’ve ridden nearly all those bikes on your list. Modern liter bikes are crazy fast but difficult to launch.

 

[emeryjre]

I’ve ridden nearly all those bikes on your list. Modern liter bikes are crazy fast but difficult to launch.

I have no idea what a modern liter bike is describing
I am definitely behind the curve with modern "fast" bikes