Mega Owners at Club Wyndham Harbortown Point Default on Maintenance Fees

[Jan M.]

Try Fairfield, Trendwest, Cendant, and Wyndham.

 

[dioxide45]

Did you try "Fairfield"?

Fairfield turned up about 27 pages, but many of these are conveyances to an individual buyer. I also can't view any of the images of the deeds. They all say image not available. So researching on the Ventura county website is not as easy as it should be.

 

[Jan M.]

I did one at Ocean Walk this past Monday morning. Got a hard sell to combine my 2 deeded and 2 CWA contracts into one CWA contract, plus buying 184k points to take me to Gold VIP, (without my PIC Plus contract), for $47k. It also came with the hard sell that they would rent out my excess points or me every year to "more than pay for my total annual maintenance fees". I passed. I told them that having them rent out the points for me for more than enough to pay my maintenance fees every year just seemed too good to be true. They assured me it wasn't, but of course, "no guarantees". Oh, and they also said they would be able to assure me that I would be able to exit my ownership at any point in the future. They also assured me they would be able to transfer all of my ownership, including the PIC Plus contract, to a niece or nephew at any point in the future. I told them I understood it could only transfer to spouses and children, but they said they would be able to "make it happen". (I'm skeptical of that too.)

PIC Plus Weeks don't transfer. A good reason for family to leave you on after you pass. They just keep paying the maintenance fees to your resort you PIC'd.

 

[FL Guy]

PIC Plus Weeks don't transfer. A good reason for family to leave you on after you pass. They just keep paying the maintenance fees to your resort you PIC'd.

How would I accomplish that? It's currently only myself and my partner on the account. At this point I don't know if any nieces or nephews have an interest in inheriting our timeshares but intend to begin having a conversation with them about it. IF one decides they would like to inherit them, can they be added as an owner on my Wyndham account, then just continue using it after we pass? IF they can be added as an owner, how would I get that accomplished? Thanks!

 

[Jan M.]

@FL Guy If any of them want it, add them before you pass. It seems to be a real headache for the heirs who want the Wyndham timeshare. Multiple times submitting the death certificate only to have them "lose" the paperwork again. I've seen people posting that 6 months to a year later Wyndham still hadn't done anything. Maintenance fees still have to be paid, they can't use the account, and it ran into the next use year so all the points from the previous year were lost.

Several things to be considered for anyone considering this. Is there a VIP level with grandfathered unlimited housekeeping credits? If so everyone definitely wants this to be as seamless as possible. Is everything developer, resale, or a mix of both? Are there multiple contracts in the account?

Yes, you're Gold with your PIC and have several deeds/contracts. First you'll have to add them to the deeds. Since there isn't a deed involved with CWA contracts, that's an in-house thing Wyndham handles. Afaik after all that's done you'll submit the Wyndham form with the $399 payment for each deed and contract.

I've seen people post that the Legacy department will handle this and there might or might not be fees. Same thing with the Title department. All you can do is ask. You might want to keep calling back to see if you'll get a more favorable answer rather than accepting their first answer if all you're getting is no, no, and no.

Technically all you need to do for now is add them to one deed or contract in the account to make them owners. However that just postpones the eventual headache. However that's still a good way for them to try it on for size.

PIC Plus weeks aren't transferable. So you can't change that. It's always handy to have extra names on the account so my solution would be to not take you off the account when you pass. Many owners do that when a parent passes to have the extra name(s). This is a don't ask, don't tell situation. They just have to make sure to keep paying the maintenance fees for the resort you PIC'd. The points count towards your VIP level even if they don't deposit the week.

I'm guessing from your post that your PIC Plus week might be a 2 bedroom that gets you 154k points? At some point you and/or they could find two 3 or 4 bedroom weeks that would give you/them a total of 508k PIC Plus points. You'd unenroll your current PIC Plus week to enroll the higher point weeks and have to make a 98k point purchase. There's a maximum of two PIC Plus weeks allowed. You'd make them the primary on those PIC Plus weeks and the primary on the new purchase too. I'd estimate this would cost in the neighborhood of maybe no more than $20k if you go though Telesales and don't mind having more CWA points. Youll get bonus points and the discounts and rebates typically start at 100k-105k depending on the current promotions. Sometimes they're enough better for 120-130k points making that a much better deal for just a couple k more.

The Massanutten resorts and the Williamsburg Vacation Village resorts have 4 bedroom units and you should be able to pick them up for the closing costs and fees. I think one of the VV Williamsburg resorts has 3 bedroom units. The owner might even be willing to pay the closing costs and fees or split them with you.

That 508k PIC Plus points plus the additional 100-130k points youd be buying should be enough to make you and them Platinum. Maybe even Founder's? I'd guess the bonus points would for sure be enough make you and them temporary Founders for 2 years.

Lots to think about and discuss.

 

[FL Guy]

@FL Guy If any of them want it, add them before you pass. It seems to be a real headache for the heirs who want the Wyndham timeshare. Multiple times submitting the death certificate only to have them "lose" the paperwork again. I've seen people posting that 6 months to a year later Wyndham still hadn't done anything. Maintenance fees still have to be paid, they can't use the account, and it ran into the next use year so all the points from the previous year were lost.

Several things to be considered for anyone considering this. Is there a VIP level with grandfathered unlimited housekeeping credits? If so everyone definitely wants this to be as seamless as possible. Is everything developer, resale, or a mix of both? Are there multiple contracts in the account?

Lots to think about and discuss.

Wow! Thanks Jan M. Yes, LOTS to think about. I'm heading home from Ocean Walk tomorrow morning and will take time to digest this information and respond with more detail to you early next week.

 

[Jan M.]

Wow! Thanks Jan M. Yes, LOTS to think about. I'm heading home from Ocean Walk tomorrow morning and will take time to digest this information and respond with more detail to you early next week.

PM me and I'll give you my cellphone number so you can call if it's easier to ask questions.

 

[sue1947]

deleted

 

[rickandcindy23]

I see some under CRG:

Try Fairfield, Trendwest, Cendant, and Wyndham.

 

[sponger76]

I see some under CRG:

View attachment 116643

Is CRG part of Wyndham?

 

[stevenh21]

CRG​

CRG is a real estate development and investment firm with seven regional offices and deep expertise in delivering industrial, office, student housing, and data center projects throughout North America. It is a subsidiary of Clayco.
Not affiliated with Wyndham.

 

[sponger76]

CRG​

CRG is a real estate development and investment firm with seven regional offices and deep expertise in delivering industrial, office, student housing, and data center projects throughout North America. It is a subsidiary of Clayco.
Not affiliated with Wyndham.

Maybe this third party development company is trying to force the timeshare to collapse so it can turn the property into something else.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

If these unit weeks are indeed Wyndham owned, it would seem that Wyndham doesn't control enough of the votes to control the association or the association BOD to have them file Chapter 11 like the other properties have.

While I agree that, on TUG, we sometimes advise people to just stop paying and go into default but we often first tell them to try giving their week away or finding someone willing to take it. In other words, we try to push them to "do the right thing" first. Did Wyndham first try to do this? Were they not able to sell these weeks to another entity? I suspect the weeks have $0 resale value? Did they just, simply, not pay? Did they try to work with the BOD/HOA first to come to a better solution?

Also the difference between Wyndham and individuals is that Wyndham has pockets here and pursuing a judgment against them for unpaid maintenance fees would actually make sense. Is this really Wyndham doing this? That’s a ridiculous strategy if so and really does make me question whether th company is in as good financial shape as we’re being led to believe.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Maybe this third party development company is trying to force the timeshare to collapse so it can turn the property into something else.

lol, did Wyndham effectively use a Viking Ship strategy to get rid of their timeshare weeks in this resort? Did they deed these to CRG and then CRG just promptly stopped paying the dues?

 

[rickandcindy23]

lol, did Wyndham effectively use a Viking Ship strategy to get rid of their timeshare weeks in this resort? Did they deed these to CRG and then CRG just promptly stopped paying the dues?

Maybe?

 

[Jan M.]

@rickandcindy23 found that Wyndham did sell or transfer units to CRG. Was this done recently, like in the last year or two, and how many units?

@stevenh21 posted that in talking to the resort he was told there's a major player, 400 weeks, and a minor player, 25 weeks. The unspoken indication was that Wyndham is one of the two players.

I know from what my husband did that pension funds own or have interests in a huge amount of property, commercial, apartment complexes, condo buildings, etc. Was CRG trying to broker a deal, on their and Wyndham's behalf, and it fell through? Or is the idea for the resort to be desperate to make a deal with an individual, a developer, an investment group or whatever, to take over all those units in default? It sounds like this is a high demand resort in a prime location and would be a good acquisition.

 

[randyz]

Fairfield turned up about 27 pages, but many of these are conveyances to an individual buyer. I also can't view any of the images of the deeds. They all say image not available. So researching on the Ventura county website is not as easy as it should be.

As I wrote in an earlier post Fairfield bought into the development in 1999. Those records appear to exist plus some litigation between Fairfield and the development in 2001 (that year is from my memory). I also looked tot the Ventura county site and less than helpful. Given the original post indicated being told that the unpaid MF are from and original owner I felt that implied 1980's era owner which was pre Fairfield/Wyndham.

 

[comicbookman]

Originally it was indicated that two California resorts were on the list to be dropped. That was dropped from our list as no other information about them being dropped was forthcoming.

As mentioned, Harbortown Point isn't a Wyndham managed resort. I checked our non Wyndham RCI account and Harbor Point is in the Directory but has no availability, even in Extra Vacations. Since this isn't a resort I would normally be searching for I don't know if no RCI availability is typical or not. I suspect not. It's also not listed as a Wyndham or Worldmark resort, just Harbortown Point.

Doing the math, 416 units divided by 52 would be 8 units. My first guess would be that the HOA is being discreet in not naming Wyndham and the two owners are Wyndham and Wyndham as CWA. However @dioxide45 said Harbortown Point isn't shown as a CWA resort. Although they could own all 52 weeks in 8 units, it could also be that they own x number of weeks in units x, y, and z. So the other defaulter could be an individual with 1 or 2 weeks.

@T-Dot-Traveller posted that the resort website says they have 57 units. That means Wyndham doesn't control enough votes to be able to take the same path they're taking with the other resorts being dropped.

Again, my guess is that Wyndham's approach with this resort is to default on the maintenance fees and let the resort foreclose. Ironic that some people who post on TUG and some in the Facebook groups are very outspoken about how unethical defaulting is whenever someone is advised to just stop paying and let the HOA foreclose when the person wants or truly needs out and Wyndham Cares is no help nor will Certified Exit take it back.

What's good for the goose.... An individual's financial decision to default is no different from this business/financial move Wyndham is making. It would make sense that Wyndham would want to keep what I/we think they're doing with Harbortown Point on the downlow as much as possible. They wouldn't want owners thinking if Wyndham can default then we can too. From what I've seen people, who I think know what they're talking about say, defaulting on a timeshare doesn't hurt a person's credit to the extent that some people fearmonger it does.

So is there is a second California resort that Wyndham is doing this with too?

Why do assume Wyndham is the owner of the units that are defaulting? It would in no way be in Wyndham's best interest to default as it would have major negative effect on their ability to take foreclosed units from other resorts for resale. If you were an HOA would you agree to that type of deal after hearing that Wyndham had defaulted in the manner you have described? Not saying Wyndham wouldn't do it if it had long term benefit to them, but saving $367,800, but putting your main method of obtaining free resale properties in jeopardy in seems like a seriously losing proposition.

 

[stevenh21]

Why do assume Wyndham is the owner of the units that are defaulting? It would in no way be in Wyndham's best interest to default as it would have major negative effect on their ability to take foreclosed units from other resorts for resale. If you were an HOA would you agree to that type of deal after hearing that Wyndham had defaulted in the manner you have described? Not saying Wyndham wouldn't do it if it had long term benefit to them, but saving $367,800, but putting your main method of obtaining free resale properties in jeopardy in seems like a seriously losing proposition.

Read posts #35 and #46. The whole resort is not owned or managed by Wyndham.

 

[comicbookman]

Read posts #35 and #46. The whole resort is not owned or managed by Wyndham.

And how do those posts respond to my response you quoted? Your words tend to agree with my statement. It is in no way in Wyndhams best interest to default. As the referenced posts suggest) We know that if user RENTER is to be believed there are still a few mega renters who control large amounts of units at a couple of resorts. More likely it is one or more of these owners who have defaulted as a successor of to an original mega owner. Also, keep in mind that "unit" is probably the wrong word here. Each unit is divided into 52 weeks, so has an owner of 400 weeks defaulter or an owner 20,800 weeks? Also post #67 points out that wyndham, through Fairfield is not an original owner, so does not fit the description. Please explain your theory that Wyndham defaulting is somehow better for them than the process they have used at the other resorts that are closing?

 

[stevenh21]

And how do those posts respond to my response you quoted? Your words tend to agree with my statement. It is in no way in Wyndhams best interest to default. As the referenced posts suggest) We know that if user RENTER is to be believed there are still a few mega renters who control large amounts of units at a couple of resorts. More likely it is one or more of these owners who have defaulted as a successor of to an original mega owner. Also, keep in mind that "unit" is probably the wrong word here. Each unit is divided into 52 weeks, so has an owner of 400 weeks defaulter or an owner 20,800 weeks? Also post #67 points out that wyndham, through Fairfield is not an original owner, so does not fit the description. Please explain your theory that Wyndham defaulting is somehow better for them than the process they have used at the other resorts that are closing?

In both referenced posts, I used the term "weeks units." There are only 57 units at the resort, or 2964 weeks, so why ask me if it is 20,800 weeks?
Nitpicking aside, it is not in Wyndham's best interest to default. They, or another entity, cannot use the weeks, or send someone to stay at the resort. They also lose voting rights when in default. So, what is the endgame?
In response to your final sentence, i have not presented a theory "that Wyndham defaulting is somehow better for them than the process they have used at the other resorts that are closing?" Owners will not know the immediate financial cost to them for a couple of weeks when maintenance fee bills for 2026 are sent out. And yes, I am an owner at the resort.

Like Quote

 

[RENTER]

And how do those posts respond to my response you quoted? Your words tend to agree with my statement. It is in no way in Wyndhams best interest to default. As the referenced posts suggest) We know that if user RENTER is to be believed there are still a few mega renters who control large amounts of units at a couple of resorts. More likely it is one or more of these owners who have defaulted as a successor of to an original mega owner. Also, keep in mind that "unit" is probably the wrong word here. Each unit is divided into 52 weeks, so has an owner of 400 weeks defaulter or an owner 20,800 weeks? Also post #67 points out that wyndham, through Fairfield is not an original owner, so does not fit the description. Please explain your theory that Wyndham defaulting is somehow better for them than the process they have used at the other resorts that are closing?

no one I know owns that much at anyone resort