Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[CO skier]

If you gave me the option to not take the 2026 MF refund, and keep those 154K points in my account for 2026 (with the ability to roll them forward in accordance with the program rules since I do have other contracts), I would take that option.

Now if someone only had one contract, and was not taking the swap, give them the option of not taking the refund, but you have to use the points by end of 2026. I think that's fair. No one should have to take a CWA swap and pay in perpetuity, to use something they already paid for.

Not for nothing, Wynhdam is pulling the rug out from people with no notice. Your normal owner has no idea on October 10, that on January 1, 2026, their rolled points and 2026 points are going poof.

Ask a couple dozen owners how their timeshare should be run and get 3,300 posts of armchair ideas ...

 

[shawnee83]

One of the things that I think is peculiar is the complete exit from Shawnee. I can understand shedding the worst/older sections, especially River Village I/II and Fairway Village, but it seems they could make a go of it if they retained Crestview. Those units are not that old, and while everything else may need "substantial deferred maintenance", that wouldn't be the case for Crestview.

They are doing partial exits from Edisto and Pagosa, is there something in the agreement with Shawnee that precludes that?

Even if occupancy is down, just retaining Crestview would solve that problem.

I can only speculate that management has determined that a clean exit from the entire property is the best strategy. Maybe Crestview alone is not big enough to be a stand alone resort? Perhaps the selling strategy (after the bankruptcy is sorted out) would be, "you want these nice units on top of the hill, you gotta take these older ones too."

Again, pure speculation.

 

[Arimaas]

Ask 20 owners how their timeshare should be run and get 3,300 posts of armchair ideas ...

That's great. Like I said, it's all Wyndhams prerogative to run it as they see fit. And they are showing that they could care less about their customers. Which is fine, I've said it in 3,300 posts. I use it for what i want, and they use me for what they want. I know what they are, and they know what i am,

 

[shawnee83]

This may be of interest only to people who own at Shawnee, and even then it may not be of interest...

I just went through all the papers we've held onto since we bought back in 2001. There has been some confusion between the terms "River Village," "River Village I," "River Village II," and the mysterious "River Village Phase IIIB Owner's Association."

Our deeds and related papers going back to 2001 all mention River Village Phase IIIB. In fact one document refers to "Interval XX of unit RXX of Phase IIIB Area 2 River Village Stage I Shawnee Village Planned Residential Development"

So I think "River Village II" is the name used for day-to-day operations and identifying units for purposes of giving people directions and so forth. But the longer "River Village Phase IIIB" is what is on the deeds and tax rolls and stuff. I suspect there may be similar naming practices at other Wyndham properties.

Thanks for reading this far

 

[comicbookman]

No. There is an annual fee for club Wyndham in excess of the actual MF to the HOA. Don't recall what it is.... Maybe $200/yr?

You still have not explained how not maintaining a valid membership, which you agreed to, is not you breaking the contract. Wyndham is giving you a way to stay a member, the CWA swap, and you are declining it involves no different obligations than before. Your deed going away is an action by the HOA, a third party, not Wyndham. This is a straight forward contract matter, no CPA required. There is no geographic component, unlike many a gym membership. If you no longer have a deed or CWA points, you are no longer a valid member and Wyndham has no obligation to provide services, prepaid or not.

 

[Arimaas]

You still have not explained how not maintaining a valid membership, which you agreed to, is not you breaking the contract. Wyndham is giving you a way to stay a member, the CWA swap, and you are declining it involves no different obligations than before. Your deed going away is an action by the HOA, a third party, not Wyndham. This is a straight forward contract matter, no CPA required. There is no geographic component, unlike many a gym membership. If you no longer have a deed or CWA points, you are no longer a valid member and Wyndham has no obligation to provide services, prepaid or not.

I think where we see differently is that I say that Wyndham is changing the rules of the game for the owner. Yes, you can say it's the HOA, but it's Wyndham behind all this, regardless of the legal distinctions between the Wydnahm Corporation and the HOA.

Wynhdam is offering me a swap - great. That's nice (and to Wyndham's benefit frankly to keep the money flowing in), but if I take that swap, my MFs now go up by at least $2/1000. For some people that's either unaffordable or not what they want Up until 2 weeks ago, Wyndham was promising people and taking reservations using into 2026, and again, pulled the rug out from under them. I'm not asking you to agree with my feeling that it's not fair, but I'm asking you to at least ackownedlge my thought process and why I feel that way. Again, you don't have to agree with me, but you can validate why I would feel that this is just not fair.

 

[Rolltydr]

I think where we see differently is that I say that Wyndham is changing the rules of the game for the owner. Yes, you can say it's the HOA, but it's Wyndham behind all this, regardless of the legal distinctions between the Wydnahm Corporation and the HOA.

Wynhdam is offering me a swap - great. That's nice (and to Wyndham's benefit frankly to keep the money flowing in), but if I take that swap, my MFs now go up by at least $2/1000. For some people that's either unaffordable or not what they want Up until 2 weeks ago, Wyndham was promising people and taking reservations using their 2026, and again, pulled the rug out from under them. I'm not asking you to agree with my feeling that it's not fair, but I'm asking you to at least ackownedlge my thought process and why I feel that way. Again, you don't have to agree with me, but you can validate why I would feel that this is just not fair.

Do you belong to any subscription services? That’s basically what a timeshare is. Every single one of them has the right to make changes to their user agreement as they see fit. You agree to it when you sign the document or click the Agree button. You’re choosing to ignore that and be a victim.

 

[hjsweet2002]

You still have not explained how not maintaining a valid membership, which you agreed to, is not you breaking the contract. Wyndham is giving you a way to stay a member, the CWA swap, and you are declining it involves no different obligations than before. Your deed going away is an action by the HOA, a third party, not Wyndham. This is a straight forward contract matter, no CPA required. There is no geographic component, unlike many a gym membership. If you no longer have a deed or CWA points, you are no longer a valid member and Wyndham has no obligation to provide services, prepaid or not.

It is Wyndham taking our deeds away. Wyndham has a majority of members on the HOA and controls about 2/3 of the votes at HOA meetingd

 

[comicbookman]

I think where we see differently is that I say that Wyndham is changing the rules of the game for the owner. Yes, you can say it's the HOA, but it's Wyndham behind all this, regardless of the legal distinctions between the Wydnahm Corporation and the HOA.

Wynhdam is offering me a swap - great. That's nice (and to Wyndham's benefit frankly to keep the money flowing in), but if I take that swap, my MFs now go up by at least $2/1000. For some people that's either unaffordable or not what they want Up until 2 weeks ago, Wyndham was promising people and taking reservations using their 2026, and again, pulled the rug out from under them. I'm not asking you to agree with my feeling that it's not fair, but I'm asking you to at least ackownedlge my thought process and why I feel that way. Again, you don't have to agree with me, but you can validate why I would feel that this is just not fair.

I was not claiming it is fair. I don't disagree with your thought process at all. I was disputing the " I'm a CPA" poster's analysis of the underlying legal implications. I am not claiming that just because something follows the law that makes it fair or morally the right thing to do. I just dislike when people try to bend the law to fit their own opinion and present it as correct law. The law does not prevent Wyndham from acting in a different manner, which might be more equitable, but it does not require them to either.That does not make them " good", and that has never been my opinion of them.

 

[Arimaas]

Do you belong to any subscription services? That’s basically what a timeshare is. Every single one of them has the right to make changes to their user agreement as they see fit. You agree to it when you sign the document or click the Agree button. You’re choosing to ignore that and be a victim.

Oversimplification, but the closest we have come here to a decent analogy. My Netflix doesn't give me the option to roll usage which I already paid for into further years.

In addition, I have 154K points in my account that are tied to my FG holding. Wyndham (and the HOA) know that those 154K points are going poof on Jan 1, yet I can still use them to book. On Jan 1, we are saying here that any reservations I made with them also go poof. I am a percentage of a percentage of owners who understand the product, know about TUG and get how these work. What about everyone else? Now I am not saying these aren't first world problems, or that it's not Wyndham's prerogative, or that the world is fair, but my point has been, this whole time, that it's not right, and it's poor customer service on Wyndham's part. Which is why I don't feel bad about taking their $200 for a stupid "sales update" or for buying their scraps for pennies on the dollar, and using it to my advantage. Hell, I don't even feel bad that the mega renters made a buck or two off of Wyndham. Good, that's capitalism baby Same capitalism that allows them to pull the rug out form under everyone.

And by the way, I subscribe to SiriusXM. They tried to make changes to their lifetime plan (of which I am subscriber). They got sued under a class action, and had to give me back what they tried to take. Apples and oranges to our situation, but just thought I'd through it out there.

 

[Arimaas]

I was not claiming it is fair. I don't disagree with your thought process at all. I was disputing the " I'm a CPA" poster's analysis of the underlying legal implications. I am not claiming that just because something follows the law that makes it fair or morally the right thing to do. I just dislike when people try to bend the law to fit their own opinion and present it as correct law. The law does not prevent Wyndham from acting in a different manner, which might be more equitable, but it does not require them to either.That does not make them " good", and that has never been my opinion of them.

If this was a peace treaty negotiation, I feel like we just had a breakthrough moment

 

[hjsweet2002]

Oversimplification, but the closest we have come here to a decent analogy. My Netflix doesn't give me the option to roll usage which I already paid for into further years.

In addition, I have 154K points in my account that are tied to my FG holding. Wyndham (and the HOA) know that those 154K points are going poof on Jan 1, yet I can still use them to book. On Jan 1, we are saying here that any reservations I made with them also go poof. I am a percentage of a percentage of owners who understand the product, know about TUG and get how these work. What about everyone else? Now I am not saying these aren't first world problems, or that it's not Wyndham's prerogative, or that the world is fair, but my point has been, this whole time, that it's not right, and it's poor customer service on Wyndham's part. Which is why I don't feel bad about taking their $200 for a stupid "sales update" or for buying their scraps for pennies on the dollar, and using it to my advantage. Hell, I don't even feel bad that the mega renters made a buck or two off of Wyndham. Good, that's capitalism baby Same capitalism that allows them to pull the rug out form under everyone.

And by the way, I subscribe to SiriusXM. They tried to make changes to their lifetime plan (of which I am subscriber). They got sued under a class action, and had to give me back what they tried to take. Apples and oranges to our situation, but just thought I'd through it out there.

I am a little confused. How are the points going away Jan 1st. My understanding is that maintenance fees at these deeded property at these resorts have been paid for in advance. If they take away the points would nit they be liable to pay back those maintenance fees

 

[Arimaas]

I am a little confused. How are the points going away Jan 1st. My understanding is that maintenance fees at these deeded property at these resorts have been paid for in advance. If they take away the points would nit they be liable to pay back those maintenance fees

They are supposedly refunding 2026 MFs and suspending collection of fees in 2026

 

[paxsarah]

There are two sort of arguments going on here: one, that some of the ways Wyndham is handling this are kind of sh**ty (and there’s a whole spectrum of alleged sh**tiness and different people’s opinions are in different spots along it), or two, that there’s something potentially illegal going on here (illustrated by some recent talk about unearned revenue and liabilities). The first is us all having different perceptions and opinions of what's going on here based on our varying lifetimes of experiences, which is to be expected. The latter should be backed up by some citations at least, to be taken seriously. Feel free to look through the club's governing documents (I'd start here, and then move on to the program matter towards the end of the directory, especially the "services" and "program disclosures" sections) and then cite which part of these agreements Wyndham is violating as a legal matter.

 

[dioxide45]

Wyndham is notorious for stealing points. I suspect there are more, but these are just two of them.

• Transfer a contract in the second half of the year where the seller hadn't used current use year points. The points are gone.
• Transfer a contract that has a different use year than what you currently own. Use year is realigned forward, not backward. The points are gone.

 

[dioxide45]

Oversimplification, but the closest we have come here to a decent analogy. My Netflix doesn't give me the option to roll usage which I already paid for into further years.

In addition, I have 154K points in my account that are tied to my FG holding. Wyndham (and the HOA) know that those 154K points are going poof on Jan 1, yet I can still use them to book. On Jan 1, we are saying here that any reservations I made with them also go poof. I am a percentage of a percentage of owners who understand the product, know about TUG and get how these work. What about everyone else? Now I am not saying these aren't first world problems, or that it's not Wyndham's prerogative, or that the world is fair, but my point has been, this whole time, that it's not right, and it's poor customer service on Wyndham's part. Which is why I don't feel bad about taking their $200 for a stupid "sales update" or for buying their scraps for pennies on the dollar, and using it to my advantage. Hell, I don't even feel bad that the mega renters made a buck or two off of Wyndham. Good, that's capitalism baby Same capitalism that allows them to pull the rug out form under everyone.

And by the way, I subscribe to SiriusXM. They tried to make changes to their lifetime plan (of which I am subscriber). They got sued under a class action, and had to give me back what they tried to take. Apples and oranges to our situation, but just thought I'd through it out there.

We are still going by what a bunch of randoms on the internet are thinking. We don't really know for sure what options Wyndham may offer to you. Perhaps they will offer something different than just a CWA swap to be able to retain your 2026 reservations. I suspect you said it somewhere, but I probably missed it. To clarify, were your 2026 reservations made with banked points? Or is it made with 2026 use year points.

 

[Arimaas]

We are still going by what a bunch of randoms on the internet are thinking. We don't really know for sure what options Wyndham may offer to you. Perhaps they will offer something different than just a CWA swap to be able to retain your 2026 reservations. I suspect you said it somewhere, but I probably missed it. To clarify, were your 2026 reservations made with banked points? Or is it made with 2026 use year points.

I’m not worried about me. By luck not by planning, I have enough points in my 2026 account to cover the existing reservations and the poof.

All my posts aren’t about me. It’s about the situation in general, and how they are handling it.

 

[dioxide45]

There are two sort of arguments going on here: one, that some of the ways Wyndham is handling this are kind of sh**ty (and there’s a whole spectrum of alleged sh**tiness and different people’s opinions are in different spots along it), or two, that there’s something potentially illegal going on here (illustrated by some recent talk about unearned revenue and liabilities). The first is us all having different perceptions and opinions of what's going on here based on our varying lifetimes of experiences, which is to be expected. The latter should be backed up by some citations at least, to be taken seriously. Feel free to look through the club's governing documents (I'd start here, and then move on to the program matter towards the end of the directory, especially the "services" and "program disclosures" sections) and then cite which part of these agreements Wyndham is violating as a legal matter.

I find the actual FairShare trust document that is filed with the SEC very lacking in terms of actual exchange rules and procedures. Even the Member's Directory, which is better, is written more in a way to translate legal mumbo jumbo into something most people can consume and understand. Other timeshare systems I am a member of has a legal exchange procedures document (II has their Buyer's Guide, Marriott has the MVC Exchange Procedures and Vistana has a VSN Disclosure Guide). These lay out the terms and conditions we agree to when we join their programs through ownership. So far I haven't really found something similar from Club Wyndham. Shoot, even finding the Member's Directory on the Club Wyndham website was a bit of a chore.

 

[Rolltydr]

As is, doing almost anything else on their website!

 

[Jan M.]

Of course the gym refunds the money. It’s usually in the contract in fact. It’s not the customers fault the gym closed. Same here,

Whatver the rules are legally, if they leave people without compensation, than that is it’s just wrong. Wyndham could keep people’s rolled points active if they wanted or they could refund the value of the points. We don’t know what they are going to do but if they don’t it’s because they don’t want to. Their prerogative. If that’s the road they take, it’s just more confirmation to me (my opinion, based on my experience and what I see, not on fact so Plesee don’t argue with me) that they suck.

Someone who knows, please clarify about what @Twenty20 posted.

Using their example. If it's a national chain of gyms and there are other locations I could reasonably use but choose not to for whatever reasons of my own, would they still be legally obligated to refund part of what I paid?

I'm trying to differentiate what Wyndham could do but doesn't legally have to do. To be clear, I've been openly critical of things Wyndham's done in the past and expect to be again in the future, so not lol. And there's definitely aspects of this whole thing that I've questioned. However, I'm guessing that the lawyers have made absolutely sure that Wyndham is meeting any real or implied legal obligations with the offer of the exchange for CWA points. If that's the case and someone has decided to not continue to be a Wyndham owner, why would Wyndham have any interest in doing anything else to appease those people if the legal obligations have been met?

I'm not arguing about what anyone thinks is right. What I'm asking is what's the cold, hard truth? Many of us bought with the intent to have our ownerships be a generational family vacation ownership. As I've said several times, due to the scope of what's happening this is a major shock. There's no sugar coating that! It also makes me, and I'm sure other owners, aware that the resorts where we own could face the same fate in the coming years. This is something I never gave any thought to prior to this, and again I'm sure most other owners never did either.

 

[dioxide45]

View attachment 116968

Now, can we move on to some enlightening posts, instead of beating this dead horse for another 130 pages?

Do you have something enlightening to post?

 

[comicbookman]

Someone who knows, please clarify about what @Twenty20 posted.

Using their example. If it's a national chain of gyms and there are other locations I could reasonably use but choose not to for whatever reasons of my own, would they still be legally obligated to refund part of what I paid?

I'm trying to differentiate what Wyndham could do but doesn't legally have to do. To be clear, I've been openly critical of things Wyndham's done and expect to be again in the future, so not lol. And there's definitely aspects of this whole thing that I've questioned. However I'm guessing that the lawyers have made absolutely sure that Wyndham is meeting any real or implied legal obligations with the offer of the exchange for CWA points. If that's the case and someone has decided to not continue to be a Wyndham owner, why would Wyndham have any interest in doing anything else to appease those people if the legal obligations have been met?

I'm not arguing about what anyone thinks is right. What I'm asking is what's the cold, hard truth? Many of us bought with the intent to have our ownerships be a generational family vacation ownership. As I've said several times, due to the scope of what's happening this is a major shock. There's no sugar coating that! It also makes me, and I'm sure other owners, aware that the resorts where we own could face the same fate in the coming years. This is something I never gave any thought to prior to this, and again I'm sure most other owners never did either.

Using the gym example, from past personal experience, no the gym's position was that they were not legally required to make any refund. It appears to me that Wyndham has covered all of their legal bases (given what we know, which is not complete) to do what they are doing, and given the law firm they have hired, that is what I expect is the case. I agree with Jan that while it might be a minimally good PR move, why would Wyndham go to any trouble to accommodate people who have chosen to stop being an owner?

 

[paxsarah]

Wyndham is notorious for stealing points. I suspect there are more, but these are just two of them.

• Transfer a contract in the second half of the year where the seller hadn't used current use year points. The points are gone.
• Transfer a contract that has a different use year than what you currently own. Use year is realigned forward, not backward. The points are gone.

This is generally true from reports, but I will add that when I bought an April use year contract that transferred after April 1 of this year, they did align it to January (as expected) but also gave me the full 2025 points (unexpected!) as well as 2026 and beyond. So it's definitely not consistent (which is also kind of sh**ty).

 

[CO skier]

Do you have something enlightening to post?

I am working on my next enlightening post like this one:

Pagosa Village Pointe - 32 two bedroom A/B units in 6 buildings

Pagosa Masters Place - 20 two bedroom non-lockoff units in 2 buildings

 

[Jan M.]

Using the gym example, from past personal experience, no the gym's position was that they were not legally required to make any refund. It appears to me that Wyndham has covered all of their legal bases (given what we know, which is not complete) to do what they are doing, and given the law firm they have hired, that is what I expect is the case. I agree with Jan that while it might be a minimally good PR move, why would Wyndham go to any trouble to accommodate people who have chosen to stop being an owner?

Showing my age here, lol. This is on par with your mother isn't a short order cook, so you can either eat the meal your mother cooked or you can go hungry. Oh, let's not forget, children in China are starving so we should be grateful to have enough good food to eat.