Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[dioxide45]

I am working on my next enlightening post like this one:

Yes, that one was enlightening. At least it was to me. Still trying to determine the total number of units impacted across the board. I doubt I will ever get there.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Showing my age here, lol. This is on par with your mother isn't a short order cook, so you can either eat the meal your mother cooked or you can go hungry. Oh, let's not forget, children in China are starving so we should be grateful to have enough good food to eat.

Ahh - the days long before Uber Eats or even McDonald's

 

[CO skier]

• Transfer a contract that has a different use year than what you currently own. Use year is realigned forward, not backward. The points are gone.

This is not entirely true. Allow me to enlighten you (and many others).

Non-aligning Use Years are realigned forward, not backward. (True) All the points are awarded, just 9, 6, or 3 months later than before and expire 3, 6, or 9 months later than before.

Examples using 2025 for an owner with a January Use Year:

Buys an April Use Year that completes after April 1, 2025. The 2026 Use Year points (April 1, 2025 - March 31, 2026) are awarded 9 months later than before on January 1, 2026 for the January 1, 2026 - December 31, 2026 Use Year. The points expire 9 months later than before -- December 31, 2026 instead of March 30, 2026.

Buys a July Use Year that completes after July 1, 2025. The 2026 Use Year points (July 1, 2025 - June 30, 2026) are awarded 6 months later than before on January 1, 2026 for the January 1, 2026 - December 31, 2026 Use Year. The points expire 6 months later than before -- December 31, 2026 instead of June 30, 2026.

Buys an October Use Year that completes after October 1, 2025. The 2026 Use Year points (October 1, 2025 - September 30, 2026) are awarded 3 months later than before on January 1, 2026 for the January 1, 2026 - December 31, 2026 Use Year. The points expire 3 months later than before -- December 31, 2026 instead of September 30, 2026.

 

[dioxide45]

This is not entirely true. Allow me to enlighten you (and many others).

Non-aligning Use Years are realigned forward, not backward. (True) All the points are awarded, just 9, 6, or 3 months later than before and expire 3, 6, or 9 months later than before.

Examples using 2025 for an owner with a January Use Year:

Buys an April Use Year that completes after April 1, 2025. The 2026 Use Year points (April 1, 2025 - March 31, 2026) are awarded 9 months later than before on January 1, 2026 for the January 1, 2026 - December 31, 2026 Use Year. The points expire 9 months later than before -- December 31, 2026 instead of March 30, 2026.

Buys a July Use Year that completes after July 1, 2025. The 2026 Use Year points (July 1, 2025 - June 30, 2026) are awarded 6 months later than before on January 1, 2026 for the January 1, 2026 - December 31, 2026 Use Year. The points expire 6 months later than before -- December 31, 2026 instead of June 30, 2026.

Buys an October Use Year that completes after October 1, 2025. The 2026 Use Year points (October 1, 2025 - September 30, 2026) are awarded 3 months later than before on January 1, 2026 for the January 1, 2026 - December 31, 2026 Use Year. The points expire 3 months later than before -- December 31, 2026 instead of September 30, 2026.

I am not sure what I am supposed to be enlightened by. Sure, the points expire 3, 6, or 9 months later but the benefit of that is really only realized at the very end of your use. Perhaps 3, 6, 9 or more years latter.

 

[shawnee83]

 

[dioxide45]

If it's a national chain of gyms and there are other locations I could reasonably use but choose not to for whatever reasons of my own, would they still be legally obligated to refund part of what I paid?

This is going to vary based on state law, but from what I understand in Florida if your local gym closes they are required to either find you a comparable alternative within a five mile radius or you can cancel the contract with a prorated refund. If you don't think that gym is comparable or within 5 miles and they refuse to cancel you can attempt a small claims court or arbitration.

The problem with this situation is that your claim for a refund is from the HOA where the claim for usage is against Wyndham.

 

[CO skier]

I am not sure what I am supposed to be enlightened by.

The point [] is that, contrary to popular belief

The points are gone.

is simply not true.

Sure, the points expire 3, 6, or 9 months later but the benefit of that is really only realized at the very end of your use. Perhaps 3, 6, 9 or more years latter.

If that is how the buyer negotiates the purchase price, without regard to the delayed award, that is on them.

 

[dioxide45]

The point [] is that, contrary to popular belief

is simply not true.



If that is how the buyer negotiates the purchase price, without regard to the delayed award, that is on them.

So the points aren't gone, they are delayed years. I guess that's okay. Do you have a way to refute late year contract transfers or will you admit that Wyndham is stealing there?

I am also not even sure why a use year realignment is even necessary. Other timeshare systems can seem to handle different use years. Why not Wyndham?

 

[CO skier]

So the points aren't gone, they are delayed years.

still not getting it. "months" when the contract is realigned, not "years"

 

[comicbookman]

This is going to vary based on state law, but from what I understand in Florida if your local gym closes they are required to either find you a comparable alternative within a five mile radius or you can cancel the contract with a prorated refund. If you don't think that gym is comparable or within 5 miles and they refuse to cancel you can attempt a small claims court or arbitration.

The problem with this situation is that your claim for a refund is from the HOA where the claim for usage is against Wyndham.

That law , and many other state laws like it, where passed to override the contract provisions the gym's used to hide behind. A good law in my opinion.

 

[dioxide45]

still not getting it. "months" when the contract is realigned, not "years"

If I buy a contract with a July use year that gets realigned to January of next year those points now don't expire until December of next year. Had they done nothing, I would have still otherwise had points to use from July to December next year. They just would have been points that would have otherwise expired July 2027. The points I am losing six months use of don't really get realized until the end of my use.

The main problem here is that Wyndham has no written policy that I know of. Neither the seller or the buyer can disclose or know how Wyndham will handle the transfer until it actually happens. So how can you expect the buyer to negotiate a delayed award.

 

[dioxide45]

That law , and many other state laws like it, where passed to override the contract provisions the gym's used to hide behind. A good law in my opinion.

Most consumer protection laws don't come about until there has been abuse beyond what would be considered "fair" in the eyes of consumers and lawmakers. One industry that seems to have been mostly immune to consumer protection laws is the timeshare industry and the scam industry that surrounds it.

 

[comicbookman]

Most consumer protection laws don't come about until there has been abuse beyond what would be considered "fair" in the eyes of consumers and lawmakers. One industry that seems to have been mostly immune to consumer protection laws is the timeshare industry and the scam industry that surrounds it.

In the 80's gym's were opening and closing like cockroaches. Their abuses affected a noticeable percentage of the population. The timeshare industry, big in terms of $ does not affect enough people for the law makers to really care.

 

[Arimaas]

In the 80's gym's were opening and closing like cockroaches. Their abuses affected a noticeable percentage of the population. The timeshare industry, big in terms of $ does not affect enough people for the law makers to really care.

Or they have a better lobbying group to keep laws from being made....

 

[Jan M.]

Or they have a better lobbying group to keep laws from being made....

Add to that the money they're willing to shell out to persuade relevant parties to see things their way. Both in and out of court. Wyndham is no different than other big companies. It's not at all difficult to lump, bury those payouts under miscellaneous, other expenses, legal expenses, etc., in the budget reports.

Would you say it's safe to say that anyone who doesn't believe this happens and that Wyndham does it too, is clueless to what goes on in the real world?

 

[Arimaas]

Add to that the money they're willing to shell out to persuade relevant parties to see things their way. Both in and out of court. Wyndham is no different than other big companies. It's not at all difficult to lump, bury those payouts under miscellaneous, other expenses, legal expenses, etc., in the budget reports.

Would you say it's safe to say that anyone who doesn't believe this happens and that Wyndham does it too, is clueless to what goes on in the real world?

They don't even hide it, LOL, they tack it on to your annual fee statement and you need to opt out.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I can only speculate that management has determined that a clean exit from the entire property is the best strategy. Maybe Crestview alone is not big enough to be a stand alone resort? Perhaps the selling strategy (after the bankruptcy is sorted out) would be, "you want these nice units on top of the hill, you gotta take these older ones too."

Again, pure speculation.

Crestview only has a total of 40 units. Very small. Certainly not worth keeping the staff, sales center, and lodge that is currently there that services all of the other units that easily number into the hundreds in comparison. The only option would be to have Crestview become an unmanaged resort, which isn’t something Wyndham is going to consider realistically.


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[HitchHiker71]

If you gave me the option to not take the 2026 MF refund, and keep those 154K points in my account for 2026 (with the ability to roll them forward in accordance with the program rules since I do have other contracts), I would take that option.

Now if someone only had one contract, and was not taking the swap, give them the option of not taking the refund, but you have to use the points by end of 2026. I think that's fair. No one should have to take a CWA swap and pay in perpetuity, to use something they already paid for.

That’s actually a good idea and something I will feed back to Wyndham this weekend for consideration. Thanks for the idea.


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[HitchHiker71]

This may be of interest only to people who own at Shawnee, and even then it may not be of interest...

I just went through all the papers we've held onto since we bought back in 2001. There has been some confusion between the terms "River Village," "River Village I," "River Village II," and the mysterious "River Village Phase IIIB Owner's Association."

Our deeds and related papers going back to 2001 all mention River Village Phase IIIB. In fact one document refers to "Interval XX of unit RXX of Phase IIIB Area 2 River Village Stage I Shawnee Village Planned Residential Development"

So I think "River Village II" is the name used for day-to-day operations and identifying units for purposes of giving people directions and so forth. But the longer "River Village Phase IIIB" is what is on the deeds and tax rolls and stuff. I suspect there may be similar naming practices at other Wyndham properties.

Thanks for reading this far

This is already reflected in the table in the OP - I explicitly reviewed the HOA names with Wyndham during my last biweekly meeting to ensure we had the correct HOA names.


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[HitchHiker71]

Yes, that one was enlightening. At least it was to me. Still trying to determine the total number of units impacted across the board. I doubt I will ever get there.

I can certainly make this ask to Wyndham as well. I doubt I will get an answer but I can always ask!


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[dioxide45]

I can certainly make this ask to Wyndham as well. I doubt I will get an answer but I can always ask!


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Thanks. I know they, or someone, knows the answer. The information is provided to owners as footnotes in the special meeting information sent to them.

 

[Greg G]

@HitchHiker71

Can you possibly ask Wyndham, at your regular meetings, how many Star Island unit owners are in Wyndham points/the Wyndham system that are not part of the bankruptcy, to gauge what % this is of the overall number of units at Star Island.

 

[Floridaman76]

Crestview only has a total of 40 units. Very small. Certainly not worth keeping the staff, sales center, and lodge that is currently there that services all of the other units that easily number into the hundreds in comparison. The only option would be to have Crestview become an unmanaged resort, which isn’t something Wyndham is going to consider realistically.


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Just playing devils advocate, but there's several resorts which have no sales center, minimal staff, and in some cases no Wyndham provided amenities. IE: they contract with an external entitty to provide access to things like pool, workout room, etc.

Examples of resorts with this setup:
- Sapphire Valley
- Lake Lure
- Star Island
- New Bern
- Villa Rca (I think, not positive)

At these resorts, they have a shared check-in building with other timeshare entities with very limited hours, contracted housekeeping and maintenance. In some cases the resort doesn't even have a general manager. The Lake Lure GM handles that resort and Sapphire Valley for instance. There's a "late check in box" with a code if you have to check in after like 7pm.

So it coud be done, I guess the question is, is the juice worth the squeeze.

 

[ordleo]

Have you received anything from the association regarding a special meeting and vote?

At this point, if a potential buyer knows about what is happening, they won't want it. You also shouldn't sell it without disclosing the current situation.

Thanks for your input. I will check if any special meeting mail recently.

 

[Greg G]

Just playing devils advocate, but there's several resorts which have no sales center, minimal staff, and in some cases no Wyndham provided amenities. IE: they contract with an external entitty to provide access to things like pool, workout room, etc.

Examples of resorts with this setup:
- Sapphire Valley
- Lake Lure
- Star Island
- New Bern
- Villa Rca (I think, not positive)

At these resorts, they have a shared check-in building with other timeshare entities with very limited hours, contracted housekeeping and maintenance. In some cases the resort doesn't even have a general manager. The Lake Lure GM handles that resort and Sapphire Valley for instance. There's a "late check in box" with a code if you have to check in after like 7pm.

So it coud be done, I guess the question is, is the juice worth the squeeze.

For Star Island the guest services/registration building, 24 hour security gate, maintenance buildings, old sales building, recreational facilities (game room, spas, fitness center, pools, tennis courts, clubhouse/bar, playground, mini golf, driving range, 1 Club Golf, sandy beach by one of the Lakes, covered piers, etc ), and market place and deli, are not owned by the unit owners or the HOA, they are owned by a separate entity, the adjacent land owner, and termed the Club at Star Island. Unit owners have access to the club by paying a Club fee that is included as part of the maintenance fee (broken out as a separate line item). If you are a unit owner you are automatically a member of the Club and pay those fees through your maintenance fees. Certain additional services you pay a fee for at the time you use them (like tennis lessons, 1 Club Golf, certain times at the driving range, games in the game room, and of course any food/drink/items you buy).

A large portion of the resort is the driving range, 1 Club Golf, part of the old Lake Bonnet, sandy beaches. I think even the Fridays restaurant is on land owned by TWIN LAKES RESORT & COUNTRY CLUB II INC which I believe is associated with Star Island in some manner (see the Oceola county property search website to see this)