Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[TUGBrian]

Updated List Based on Rumors, Maintenance Fees based on last reported in TUG, with extremely rough approximation of increases based on average increase for CWA:

1. Bentley Brook (Massachusetts) MF: Unknown, no reports on TUG;
2. Patriot’s Place (Virginia) MF: Last Known to be $7.65/k in 2018 when CWA was $5.76. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee based on average CWA increases: $10.79 ;
3. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
4. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
5. Unknown California Resort;
6. Unknown California Resort;
7. Fairfield Bay (Arkansas) 2024 MF: $6.92
8. Fairfield Glade (Tennessee) MF: $6.55 in 2017 when CWA was $5.60, Extrapolated Maintence Fee: $9.71
9. Lake Lure (North Carolina)): MF: Unknown;
10. Star Island (Florida) MF: $6.97 in 2020 when CWA was $6.28. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee: $9.02
11. Edisto (South Carolina) MF: varies wildly by phase, but most expensive phase $8.66 in 2017 when CWA was $5.60, Extrapolaged Maintenance Fee: $12.81


Kind of surprised about Fairfield Bay. The 2024 maintenance fees were below the CWA maintenance fees.

based on TUG marketplace listings, bentley brook fixed week 2br annual fees are 1100.

168k eoy points show fees of 640.


fairways lake lure fixed week 2br show 1025

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

168k eoy points show fees of 640.

That would put it at $7.62 per thousand, which is also less than CWA.

 

[HitchHiker71]

That would put it at $7.62 per thousand, which is also less than CWA.

Prioritize as follows:

1. Resort age/condition - target older “legacy” resorts - with high special assessment potential due to age and condition
2. Low owner occupancy rates - lots of renters or exchanges as opposed to actual owners using the resort
3. Location isn’t the best or in an area that is no longer preferable/popular
4. Higher MFs - though this isn’t the highest priority
5. For areas with multiple resorts - pick the oldest and least occupied resort in the worst condition (such as Star Island in the Orlando area for example).

I haven’t had much time to think through a list but off the top of my head I’d add:

Wyndham Shawnee (meets all of the above criteria)
Wyndham Skyline Tower (AC has gone way downhill over the last 20 years).


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[Floridaman76]

Specifically regarding Patriots Place, if you asked me a year ago, I would have said "who cares". But having been here right now and seen the renovations that they have done, this is really a disappointment. This place, to me, went from a DISTANT third to a second. One thing that PP offers over KG is a 1BR Deluxe. KG doesn't have that. The 1BR units are 1BR Suites, they are small. They offer a decent sized 2BR Deluxe (PP doesn't have 2BR DLX), but the 1BR units, even the remodeled 1BR units at KG are small, and there's no getting over that. So after PP leaves the system, that leaves GG as the only Wyndham location that has 1BR Deluxe units. I've shed my kids largely, so more often than not, it's just me and my wife and we don't need the bigger units. If we get an upgrade, fine, but we don't need it like we used to.

And also to Wyndham owners, this coupled with inventory from Kingsgate going to Worldmark, this is really a net NEGATIVE to owners. It will no doubt making booking MUCH more difficult in general, but especially during peak seasons.

I don't like where this is heading. I'm at a loss to see how us losing places to book is a win for owners.

Some of these locations (Villa Rica, New Bern, The Glade) are locations that time has completely passed by (why isn't the one in Arkansas on the list, outside of the eclipse, no one has a reason to go there), so I can see that. But Newport/Jamestown, Williamsburg, and "unknown location in California", really?

Where's this money going?

 

[Floridaman76]

To re-state what I just stated, that's a lot fewer "dots on the map" that they love to show during those sales presentations. And that can't be good from a sales perspective. As it is now, I feel it's really disingenuous to show the WM resorts in general, even though technically retail owners can book them through club pass, but that's an asterisk they don't elaborate on during those pitches

After this conversation, I might have to make myself available on Saturday to do an update and see how they slither when I interogate them on this.

 

[CO skier]

To re-state what I just stated, that's a lot fewer "dots on the map" that they love to show during those sales presentations. And that can't be good from a sales perspective.

The "map" does not even appear in the newest Club Wyndham Directory (at least that I could find). A salesperson would have to use a "previous edition" for a map, like I did.

The "dots on the map" remain the same; only the names change. What difference does it make, to your point, when a few names "disappear" from the affected area? ... and no WorldMark resorts even in the picture.

 

[CO skier]

And also to Wyndham owners, this coupled with inventory from Kingsgate going to Worldmark, this is really a net NEGATIVE to owners. It will no doubt making booking MUCH more difficult in general, but especially during peak seasons.

Interesting that some Patriot Place units were slated as WorldMark units. Instead, the whole resort, ostensibly, gets off-loaded?

And c'mon, 13 units at Kingsgate if/when it happens "this is really a net NEGATIVE to owners. It will no doubt making booking MUCH more difficult in general"? Seems more like panic fomenting.

 

[CO skier]

After this conversation, I might have to make myself available on Saturday to do an update and see how they slither when I interogate them on this.

I hope your salesperson reads TUG on a regular basis, and my posts in this thread. It would make for an interesting update conversation.

 

[dioxide45]

Look what happens when I have a long travel day... There is certainly a difference between resorts closing and resorts just leaving the club network. There are only limited circumstances where a resort can close and if they are closing deeded week owners would have to have been involved. Even if Wyndham owns enough units to control the vote, it doesn't mean they can just circumvent a vote altogether. Notices and mailings would have still had to go out to owners. So do we actually suspect this is more of these resorts leaving the club vs. being closed? It isn't like they can just close Star Island in Kissimmee. There is another HOA there, isn't there?

For any of the resorts on the list, does CWA hold any deeds at these properties or are they all just converted deeds. Whereas if Club Wyndham drops them from the club, owners there just no longer have access to the Club Wyndham system. What happens to those who have reservations using 2026 points?

If any of the resorts are in CWA it isn't like CWA stops owning the deeds when they drop from the club. Wyndham needs to do something with the deeds and then they could end up in an oversold situation in CWA.

Perhaps this is why Wyndham stopped taking back converted deeds and would only take UDI a year or so ago through their exit program?

 

[bnoble]

Unsuitable” is doing a lot of work there,

Well it wouldn’t be the first time. See: “commercial”

Note that I have no opinion about whether or not this is what *is* happening, only that I believe it *could*.

 

[jp10558]

2. Low owner occupancy rates - lots of renters or exchanges as opposed to actual owners using the resort

Maybe more generally that specific to this situation, but how does a system like Wyndham count "owner occupancy" vs "rental" vs "exchange"? Like, I have CWS at Smokey Mountains - if I use points to stay at a different location, is that counted as a owner occupancy or exchange? If I use Bonus Time, is that a rental? Or is just their rental system considered a rental? I I stay on a GC, is that "owner occupancy" or "rental"?

Then I still don't get the apparent resort dislike of exchanges. Presumably the actual owner is paying MFs and SAs and getting value from exchanging. I would be a bit surprised if exchangers who are in some sense depositing their owned week would be much rougher on the exchange location than at their home resort - if they even have one in Wyndham, if they count CWS bookings as exchanges, and even if they're counting RCI, that's still someone depositing something to get the exchange. At worst it's an owner paying cash, but I still doubt it's a rough as straight rentals.

My guess is they think with a needed SA because of age and I assume difficulty of keeping owners at even higher MFs they think these resorts are going into a death spiral, or at risk of that. And they think papering over with CWA ownership is just making CWA more expensive for what Wyndham thinks are marginal resorts I guess.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

My guess is they think with a needed SA because of age and I assume difficulty of keeping owners at even higher MFs they think these resorts are going into a death spiral, or at risk of that. And they think papering over with CWA ownership is just making CWA more expensive for what Wyndham thinks are marginal resorts I guess.

This sounds correct to me as well.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Interesting that some Patriot Place units were slated as WorldMark units. Instead, the whole resort, ostensibly, gets off-loaded?

And c'mon, 13 units at Kingsgate if/when it happens "this is really a net NEGATIVE to owners. It will no doubt making booking MUCH more difficult in general"? Seems more like panic fomenting.

View attachment 112957

I would surmise that low CW owner occupancy at these types of resorts is what resulted in some units being moved into Worldmark. Equalization across the two major timeshare systems where appropriate. IDK if Worldmark owners would view this as a net positive or not. I’m assuming WM owners can also use Club Pass to book into CW, but having some units natively in their system is certainly better than using Club Pass. The net result would basically be higher owner occupancy and higher overall occupancy with these changes - which is better for T&L.


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[paxsarah]

Look what happens when I have a long travel day... There is certainly a difference between resorts closing and resorts just leaving the club network.

This is true. It sounds like what these resort employees have been told is that they’ll no longer have a job as of January 1. In true Facebook fashion, the bringers of this news have gone a step further and are insisting that these resorts are “closing.” But it’s also quite possible that it’s simply Wyndham as the manager of that resort saying you’ll no longer be employed by us. I’d be skeptical that this plan leaves 10-20 resorts simply vacant and boarded up.

Whereas if Club Wyndham drops them from the club, owners there just no longer have access to the Club Wyndham system.

Except that Craig said that he was told that such “owners who want to stay whole will be given no-cost points options to do so,” which leads me to wonder how they do that while avoiding an overselling situation, assuming that means long-term wholeness (but maybe that’s an incorrect assumption). I’d also be pretty annoyed if I were a Villa Rica or Club Destin owner who lost VIP levels when those left the program, if these owners receive points compensation that allows them to retain the same VIP eligibility they had.

 

[Roger830]

Yeah, I mean, I'd be surprised especially at the Newport ones. Those always seem to fully book up.

We live 70 miles from Newport and have been going there at least 1 mostly 2 times a year for 2 - 3 days at a time.

Our first stay with Wyndham was for one night mid-week December 2014 for 6000 points at Inn on Long Wharf. There were very few guests there and at the sister resort Wyndham Long Wharf. It was a nice stay. Temperature was mid 40's. We did the three mansion tour of the Christmas decorations. Very nice.

On the Website Inn on the Harbor is stated as being closed for renovations Nov 1 to May 1. Yesterday there was no availability for dates after May 1. The booking points are very low there and at similar resort Inn on Long wharf being mostly suites. It's possible that those could be closed for now, then come back renovated and with higher points required to book. They could be closed for 6 months of the year. Just a thought that I had while trying to fall asleep last night.

 

[dioxide45]

Except that Craig said that he was told that such “owners who want to stay whole will be given no-cost points options to do so,” which leads me to wonder how they do that while avoiding an overselling situation, assuming that means long-term wholeness (but maybe that’s an incorrect assumption). I’d also be pretty annoyed if I were a Villa Rica or Club Destin owner who lost VIP levels when those left the program, if these owners receive points compensation that allows them to retain the same VIP eligibility they had.

But what does this look like? I could understand Wyndham swapping in something else if the resort is closing, but if the property is staying open and just dropping Club Wyndham it isn't like your ownership at the property just goes away and Club Wyndham can give you something else so you can keep your VIP levels. You would now own two things, the original deed at a property that was dropped and whatever point compensation. I understand that Club Destin was simply dropped from the club and owners weren't provided with anything. They still owned Club Destin and had to move on in whichever way they could.

 

[jp10558]

But what does this look like? I could understand Wyndham swapping in something else if the resort is closing, but if the property is staying open and just dropping Club Wyndham it isn't like your ownership at the property just goes away and Club Wyndham can give you something else so you can keep your VIP levels. You would now own two things, the original deed at a property that was dropped and whatever point compensation. I understand that Club Destin was simply dropped from the club and owners weren't provided with anything. They still owned Club Destin and had to move on in whichever way they could.

I suppose this might be one other "benefit" of CWA - unless they shut down the club completely, you can't get shut out like CWS if the resort is dropped.

 

[dioxide45]

I suppose this might be one other "benefit" of CWA - unless they shut down the club completely, you can't get shut out like CWS if the resort is dropped.

That would seem to be the case. However, if at least some of that resort has deeded weeks in the CWA trust, the trust technically still owns those deeds. Theoretically CWA could still book those weeks but the Club affiliation is gone. So what happens with those deeds that are in CWA? Club Wyndham would need to dispose of them somehow. Who do they sell them to? CWA just owns deeds like any other CWS owner does. Thus why I asked upthread if CWA has ownership in any of these resorts that are being dropped.

 

[jwalk03]

Interesting. I saw a facebook post yesterday about Fairfield Glade "closing" and I thought- nah that can't be, but I guess it leaving Wyndham certainly seems possible. I stayed there a few years ago and we enjoyed our stay for sure- my kids loved the bi level unit where they had a whole "floor" to themselves! But the "resort" itself is very sleepy. Everything in the area closed at like 6 and the folks at the community center seemed pretty annoyed by the Wyndham guests.

 

[paxsarah]

But what does this look like?

One thing that crossed my mind would be something like a PIC contract. The more I think about it, neither of the existing types of PIC exactly fit what would be needed here, but it could be similar to that model - the first thing that popped into my head was PIC Express with virtual points propping up VIP levels for 5 years. Or similar to the Limited Edition contracts. But either of those I’d imagine could only be temporary.

 

[bnoble]

leads me to wonder how they do that while avoiding an overselling situation

It’s entirely possible that there is enough unsold CWA inventory to handle some consolidation. That’s supported in part by Certified Exit saying no to some broad classes of things…

 

[makersforme]

Updated List Based on Rumors, Maintenance Fees based on last reported in TUG, with extremely rough approximation of increases based on average increase for CWA:

1. Bentley Brook (Massachusetts) MF: $7.62 based on TUG Marketplace listing;
2. Patriot’s Place (Virginia) MF: Last Known to be $7.65/k in 2018 when CWA was $5.76. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee based on average CWA increases: $10.79 ;
3. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
4. Unknown Rhode Island Resort;
5. Unknown California Resort;
6. Unknown California Resort;
7. Fairfield Bay (Arkansas) 2024 MF: $6.92
8. Fairfield Glade (Tennessee) MF: $6.55 in 2017 when CWA was $5.60, Extrapolated Maintence Fee: $9.71
9. Lake Lure (North Carolina)): MF: Unknown;
10. Star Island (Florida) MF: $6.97 in 2020 when CWA was $6.28. Extrapolated Maintenance Fee: $9.02
11. Edisto (South Carolina) MF: varies wildly by phase, but most expensive phase $8.66 in 2017 when CWA was $5.60, Extrapolaged Maintenance Fee: $12.81


Kind of surprised about Fairfield Bay. The 2024 maintenance fees were below the CWA maintenance fees.

Edited to include Bentley Brook based on TUG Marketplace Listing

Any idea what this means for someone who only owns at Fairfield Bay? I wouldn't be too mad if this was an exit. Been an owner for over 30 years so timing might be right to move on.

 

[Roger830]

That would seem to be the case. However, if at least some of that resort has deeded weeks in the CWA trust, the trust technically still owns those deeds. Theoretically CWA could still book those weeks but the Club affiliation is gone. So what happens with those deeds that are in CWA? Club Wyndham would need to dispose of them somehow. Who do they sell them to? CWA just owns deeds like any other CWS owner does. Thus why I asked upthread if CWA has ownership in any of these resorts that are being dropped.

I don't see deeds in the trust a problem.

With enough votes, Wyndham disbands the hoa then compensates any other owners and takes possession of the resorts.
The deeds are removed from the trust and replaced with deeds that have an equivalent amount of points.
Wyndham sells or redevelops the accumulated properties.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't see deeds in the trust a problem.

With enough votes, Wyndham disbands the hoa then compensates any other owners and takes possession of the resorts.
The deeds are removed from the trust and replaced with deeds that have an equivalent amount of points.
Wyndham sells of redevelops the accumulated propertys.

But where do the replacement deeds come from? It would take a while to redevelop these resorts, so the replacement deeds won't come from there. At least not right away. We still really don't have an answer as to if CWA even has any ownership, and how much, at these impacted properties.

 

[kanerf]

I have several deeds at Patriot's Place. Have not received any notifications yet. In the past several non-wyndham locations that I owned closed and I got nothing.