Pete Rose & MLB

[pedro47]

Just caught it on the tell end of a news broadcast Pete Rose and Sholess Jackson have been reinstated by MLB, making them eligible for Baseball of Fame.

That is outstanding IMHO.

Now they must be vote into the Baseball Hall Fame.
,

 

[Patri]

Yes. Too bad they will never know.

 

[pedro47]

To the Baseball Hall of Fame members.

"If you judge people,
You have no time to love them. "

By Mother Teresa

 

[Rolltydr]

I honestly don’t know how to feel about this. First of all, I’m no longer a baseball fan and haven’t been for about 20 years. I was a huge fan for the first 30-40 years of my life but lost interest sometime in the 90’s and never regained it. My earliest sports heroes were Willie Mays and Hank Aaron. I was never a Reds or Phillies fan but I always loved watching Rose play. How could you not? He was Charlie Hustle and always gave it everything he had, and more. This seems like a hollow gesture to purposely wait until he died to give. Him his due. Yes, I know he bet, and he bet on baseball. He never bet on his team to lose and he never did anything would have caused them to lose.

I really don’t know enough about Shoeless Joe, but does Manfred deserve kudos for “reinstating” a man that last played over 100 years ago and has been dead for 75 years? No, he doesn’t. He’s been commissioner for 10 years. What new information does he have now that wasn’t available 10 years ago? None.

 

[Superchief]

This is an excellent article from the Cincinnati Enquirer that discusses a different side of Pete and why the Big Red Machine was so successful at the time. Pete was a blue collar guy who came from the poor West side of Cincinnati and an area that wasn't very sensitive to racial diversity. Although he wasn't 'book smart', he knew more about baseball that anyone I've seen. He knew what every pitcher would throw in key situations, and was a great mentor to younger players. His competitiveness and obsession with the sport probably helped fuel his gambling addiction. However, he became the best hitter in baseball history despite not having been blessed with speed and other athletic abilities. I hope he gets into the HOF during my lifetime.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2025/05/11/the-untold-legacy-of-pete-rose-on-the-big-red-machine-joe-morgan-frank-robinson-terry-francona/83411690007/

 

[pedro47]

There are some MLB Hall of Fame players that are in the Hall of Fame that took steroids to play the game. Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame and on the first ballot vote. With out Pete Rose there was no Red Machine and The Cincinnati Reds would have never won a World Series Championship. IMHO
,

 

[Rjbeach2003]

Shoeless Joe was screwed. Pete brought it on himself. Great ball player, and a jerk.

 

[amycurl]

Finally, some small scant piece of justice for Shoeless Joe Jackson. And since now all of MLB is brought to you by SO MUCH GAMBLING, the hypocrisy was getting a bit too obvious.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Pennytx]

Their families will treasure the recognition
I believe in heaven, they will see it also

 

[Rolltydr]

And even more questions about why now?

Rosenthal: Rob Manfred’s decision to reinstate Pete Rose raises questions about what’s next

Reinstating Rose, at least in a narrow, short-term view, comes at little cost. The Hall of Fame is the true prize for Rose’s supporters.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Snazzylass]

Finally, some small scant piece of justice for Shoeless Joe Jackson. And since now all of MLB is brought to you by SO MUCH GAMBLING, the hypocrisy was getting a bit too obvious.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ugh! Isn't that the truth? The promotion of betting and gambling by spectators for all sports is sad. It's not good. OK, let's just say it: the culture is moving in the wrong direction. This was once illegal, too!

 

[Rolltydr]

Shoeless Joe was screwed. Pete brought it on himself. Great ball player, and a jerk.

There are plenty of jerks in Cooperstown. That, obviously, is not disqualifying!

 

[joestein]

I completely understand the ban on working in baseball once you are caught gambling on the game. However, I have never understood why that should have any effect on election to the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Pete Rose is one of the greatest players of all time. There is no debate on that fact. Did he break the rules about gambling - no doubt. But he still belongs in the Hall of Fame and belonged as soon as he was eligible after retirement.

You can make an argument that breaking rules that effected performance (steroids for example) should affect somebody getting into the Hall of Fame - but that is not applicable here.

A dumb rule about a sport that has less and less prestige every year.

 

[Superchief]

There are some MLB Hall of Fame players that are in the Hall of Fame that took steroids to play the game. Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame and on the first ballot vote. With out Pete Rose there was no Red Machine and The Cincinnati Reds would have never won a World Series Championship. IMHO
,

Don't forget that he also led the Phillies to a championship. Mike Schmidt is a big supporter of Pete.

 

[pedro47]

Gambling is going to ruin NCAA college baseball, basketball and football.
What is going to happen when a bad guy gives a college basketball player ten thousand in cash to throw a college game.

Gambling is like the college transfer program. The college team with the most money with control the NCAA Football and Basketball Tournaments.

 

[Superchief]

Gambling is going to ruin NCAA college baseball, basketball and football.
What is going to happen when a bad guy gives a college basketball player ten thousand in cash to throw a college game.

Gambling is like the college transfer program. The college team with the most money with control the NCAA Football and Basketball Tournaments.

If you watch the officiating and umpiring in some games, I think it is already happening.

 

[Rolltydr]

Gambling is going to ruin NCAA college baseball, basketball and football.
What is going to happen when a bad guy gives a college basketball player ten thousand in cash to throw a college game.

Gambling is like the college transfer program. The college team with the most money with control the NCAA Football and Basketball Tournaments.

@pedro47 , I’m sure you’re old enough to remember the many times in the past 75 years that the latest “crisis” was going to ruin college sports or lead to the richest schools totally dominating college football, basketball, etc., ad nauseum! So far, the result has been that college sports are more popular than ever, have higher ratings than ever, make more money than ever, and more schools are more competitive than ever.

Not to bring up bad memories, but in my lifetime (70 years) the things that were going to kill college sports were:
- Integration
- Freshman eligibility
- Eliminating athletic dorms and forcing athletes to room with non-athletes
- Television money
- Gambling
- Rogue boosters paying athletes to sign with their team or for game performance
- Conference expansion
- ESPN, and more recently, Fox Sports wielding power over game times and commercial timeouts
- Not using replay to correct officiating errors
- Using replay to correct officiating errors
- Businessmen paying athletes to promote their product(s) with their name, image and likeness
- Athletes having the freedom to go to any school they can qualify to enroll instead

I’m sure I’ve missed several but you get the picture. Change is inevitable in life, and in sports. It’s not necessarily good or bad, it’s simply change. College athletics, over the past 5-10 years, has been forced to change because it kept refusing to change. Athletes are adults. Athletes work 30-40 hours a week at their sport (minimum) in addition to carrying the same course load as most other students. Athletes are U.S. citizens, with the same constitutional rights as every other U.S. citizen. The courts continually remind the NCAA of that fact by ruling against them in case after case.

Yet, with all that, college sports continue to rise in popularity, and despite the fear a few rich schools will soon rule all of sports, the facts are, more schools than ever are becoming competitive. In football alone over the last few years, perennial doormats, Washington, TCU, Indiana, Baylor, SMU, Cincinnati and Arizona State have risen to make the playoff field. Yes, Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, LSU, Michigan and a few others are still there, too. But, they are having a much harder time staying ahead of the pack because really good players are no longer content to ride the bench for 1, 2, or 3 years waiting for a chance to play if they can go somewhere and play immediately, AND, get paid to do so! It’s free market competition and it has worked in the private sector for almost 250 years now. Why on earth does anyone think it won’t work in college sports? I mean other than the coaches crying and whining about having to pay the players a few thousand dollars while they make millions to tens of millions. I love Nick Saban as a football coach, but he is beginning to disgust me as a human being.

So, calm down. College sports is going to be fine. Unless the old folks and politicians screw it up.

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

I put the line on Pete making it into the HOF at -25,000

 

[pedro47]

@pedro47 , I’m sure you’re old enough to remember the many times in the past 75 years that the latest “crisis” was going to ruin college sports or lead to the richest schools totally dominating college football, basketball, etc., ad nauseum! So far, the result has been that college sports are more popular than ever, have higher ratings than ever, make more money than ever, and more schools are more competitive than ever.

Not to bring up bad memories, but in my lifetime (70 years) the things that were going to kill college sports were:
- Integration
- Freshman eligibility
- Eliminating athletic dorms and forcing athletes to room with non-athletes
- Television money
- Gambling
- Rogue boosters paying athletes to sign with their team or for game performance
- Conference expansion
- ESPN, and more recently, Fox Sports wielding power over game times and commercial timeouts
- Not using replay to correct officiating errors
- Using replay to correct officiating errors
- Businessmen paying athletes to promote their product(s) with their name, image and likeness
- Athletes having the freedom to go to any school they can qualify to enroll instead

I’m sure I’ve missed several but you get the picture. Change is inevitable in life, and in sports. It’s not necessarily good or bad, it’s simply change. College athletics, over the past 5-10 years, has been forced to change because it kept refusing to change. Athletes are adults. Athletes work 30-40 hours a week at their sport (minimum) in addition to carrying the same course load as most other students. Athletes are U.S. citizens, with the same constitutional rights as every other U.S. citizen. The courts continually remind the NCAA of that fact by ruling against them in case after case.

Yet, with all that, college sports continue to rise in popularity, and despite the fear a few rich schools will soon rule all of sports, the facts are, more schools than ever are becoming competitive. In football alone over the last few years, perennial doormats, Washington, TCU, Indiana, Baylor, SMU, Cincinnati and Arizona State have risen to make the playoff field. Yes, Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, LSU, Michigan and a few others are still there, too. But, they are having a much harder time staying ahead of the pack because really good players are no longer content to ride the bench for 1, 2, or 3 years waiting for a chance to play if they can go somewhere and play immediately, AND, get paid to do so! It’s free market competition and it has worked in the private sector for almost 250 years now. Why on earth does anyone think it won’t work in college sports? I mean other than the coaches crying and whining about having to pay the players a few thousand dollars while they make millions to tens of millions. I love Nick Saban as a football coach, but he is beginning to disgust me as a human being.

So, calm down. College sports is going to be fine. Unless the old folks and politicians screw it up.

I understand and agree with your whole post and especially that last statement. 100%
"Unless the old folks and politicians screw it up."

 

[Rolltydr]

I put the line on Pete making it into the HOF at -25,000

What does that mean? I’m old enough to remember when odds were 2-1, 5-3, 25-1, etc. When did they change, and why?

 

[BingoBangoBongo]

What does that mean? I’m old enough to remember when odds were 2-1, 5-3, 25-1, etc. When did they change, and why?

What does +/- mean in betting odds?

For example, if the odd is +150 and you bet $100 the total you could win is $250. Alternatively, a negative odd demonstrates how much you need to wager to win $100. For example, -200 means you must bet at least $200 to win $100, taking your total to $300.


So in my example, you would need to bet $25,000 to win $100.

 

[Panina]

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame. It will happen. It's sad he did not get to see it.

 

[Rolltydr]

What does +/- mean in betting odds?

For example, if the odd is +150 and you bet $100 the total you could win is $250. Alternatively, a negative odd demonstrates how much you need to wager to win $100. For example, -200 means you must bet at least $200 to win $100, taking your total to $300.


So in my example, you would need to bet $25,000 to win $100.

Seems like a losing proposition!

 

[slip]

In my opinion, you have to take a hard line and Pete gambled on baseball so he's not eligible. Shoeless Joe took the money so he's a no too. Everything gets tarnished when you start making exceptions and unfortunately they have done that too.

It's too bad, they were two of the greats but they knew what they were doing.

 

[Rolltydr]

In my opinion, you have to take a hard line and Pete gambled on baseball so he's not eligible. Shoeless Joe took the money so he's a no too. Everything gets tarnished when you start making exceptions and unfortunately they have done that too.

It's too bad, they were two of the greats but they knew what they were doing.

I understand and respect your opinion, @slip . But, Cooperstown isn’t simply a memorial to great players who were also good human beings. As I stated in a post above, there are a lot of jerks enshrined there, too. Guys you wouldn’t have wanted your daughter to marry. However, Cooperstown is more than that. This is an excerpt of an article Dan Wetzel posted on the ESPN website:

“The only remaining purpose of the ban was to keep them from the immortality of being inducted into Cooperstown, which bills itself officially as the "National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum."

The last word is the most important.

Museums exist to tell about history, and history is always messy -- including in sports. They shouldn't be solely designed for the sanitized, establishment-approved version of events, or allow outside considerations to overshadow actual accomplishments. They certainly shouldn't serve as part of some carrot-and-stick approach to desired behavior.”

I’ve been to many museums over the years that I did not enjoy. They made me very uncomfortable. Oklahoma City Federal Building, The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Holocaust Memorial, even President Andrew Jackson’s Hermitage. Terrible things happened at all those places but it is necessary that we remember them. That doesn’t mean we celebrate them. We use them to teach and to learn.

Gambling, at least to some extent, is legal now in almost every state, and is a business partner of Major League Baseball. So, what lesson is being taught from excluding the all time hits leader from Cooperstown? That gambling is wrong? Or, that MLB is the height of hypocrisy?