You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

[LannyPC]

Out of curiosity, are there any owners of fully EVs here who do not have a charging station or option at home and therefore, must rely on public charging stations or chargers at their place of work?

Any pros and cons? Likes and dislikes? Regrets?

Unfortunately at this time, our building does not have a charging port and EV owners are not allowed to use the 120 V outlets to charge cars.

I know it's been recommended that people should not buy EVs if they do not have a charging port at home.

I'm just weighing all my options right now when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle.

 

[Ken555]

Meanwhile, in Las Vegas…

 

[easyrider]

I'm just weighing all my options right now when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle.

If you are going made in Canada then a Honda Hybrid Civic, Toyota RAV4 Hybrid or Lexus RX might be good vehicles to check out. I like the pre-2025 Lexus RX with the 6 cylinder engine.

Bill

 

[LannyPC]

If you are going made in Canada then a Honda Hybrid Civic, Toyota RAV4 Hybrid or Lexus RX might be good vehicles to check out.

Yeah, I figure, given my personal circumstances, a PHEV or a regular hybrid would be a better option for us right now.

 

[Passepartout]

Out of curiosity, are there any owners of fully EVs here who do not have a charging station or option at home and therefore, must rely on public charging stations or chargers at their place of work?

Any pros and cons? Likes and dislikes? Regrets?

Unfortunately at this time, our building does not have a charging port and EV owners are not allowed to use the 120 V outlets to charge cars.

I know it's been recommended that people should not buy EVs if they do not have a charging port at home.

I'm just weighing all my options right now when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle.

We have a similar conundrum. We use level 1 (110v) at the primary home for the PHEV Honda. The second home condo has made ZERO commitment to install ANY charging option in the parking garage- even though all those spaces are deeded and we (owners) have offered to pay the install-and metered power to our spaces.

If I were a developer, building apartments/condos, I would install level 2 outlets in each parking stall. It would cost no more than the stove or dryer outlets in each apartment anyway. This would make get another reason for people to choose my building th live in instead of another without this amenity.

My usual $.02 worth.

Jim

 

[Ken555]

The second home condo has made ZERO commitment to install ANY charging option in the parking garage- even though all those spaces are deeded and we (owners) have offered to pay the install-and metered power to our spaces.

Have you obtained quotes to install power at your deeded space? Why wait for the HOA to do it? For example, in California it is my understanding the HOA may not restrict an owner from installing power at their own expense.

 

[easyrider]

We have a similar conundrum. We use level 1 (110v) at the primary home for the PHEV Honda. The second home condo has made ZERO commitment to install ANY charging option in the parking garage- even though all those spaces are deeded and we (owners) have offered to pay the install-and metered power to our spaces.

If I were a developer, building apartments/condos, I would install level 2 outlets in each parking stall. It would cost no more than the stove or dryer outlets in each apartment anyway. This would make get another reason for people to choose my building th live in instead of another without this amenity.

My usual $.02 worth.

Jim

The cost to install EV chargers on a new apartment building are way more than adding a 40 amp circuit. A level 2 charger cost would be between $5,000- $10,000 in a commercial building depending on factors such as permitting and design for indoor, outdoor and how many tenants occupy the building.

Then there are the yearly costs that include the maintenance of the chargers and parking spot and insurance. Insurance companies look at ev charging stations in multi-family dwellings as a potential fire hazard and a point of vandalism so the insurance premiums are higher with the charger than without.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

Have you obtained quotes to install power at your deeded space? Why wait for the HOA to do it? For example, in California it is my understanding the HOA may not restrict an owner from installing power at their own expense.

This rule was for solar panels and was called something like the solar rights rule. It is only for your own personal property and not really for multi-family dwellings owned by others.

Bill

 

[Ken555]

This rule was for solar panels and was called something like the solar rights rule. It is only for your own personal property and not really for multi-family dwellings owned by others.

Bill

And… several seconds later, Claude confirmed what I thought. Remember this is for a condo, not an apartment.

ETA: it seems even for apartments in California, there are provisions for renters to install their own charger.

I'd be happy to help you understand your rights regarding EV charging installation in a California condo. Let me search for the most current information on this topic.

Based on my search, I can confirm that in California, you do have the right to install an electric vehicle charging system for your exclusive use parking space in a condo building, with certain conditions.

California has a "right to charge" law that specifically requires property owners to allow the installation of EV charging stations in designated parking spaces. This law is designed to remove barriers for residents in multi-unit housing or shared community settings who want to adopt electric vehicles. (https://www.greenlancer.com/post/right-to-charge-laws)

Here's what you need to know about your rights:

According to California Civil Code § 4745, any covenant, restriction, or condition in HOA governing documents that prohibits or unreasonably restricts the installation of an EV charging station in an owner's designated parking space is void and unenforceable. This applies to deeded parking spaces, parking spaces in an owner's exclusive use common area, or parking spaces specifically designated for use by a particular owner. (https://www.hoalawblog.com/civil_code_4745_electric_vehi_1/)

However, there are some requirements you must meet:

If you want to install an EV charging station in the common area or exclusive use common area, you must obtain HOA approval and agree in writing to meet architectural standards, use a licensed contractor, and carry insurance naming the association as an additional insured. (https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Stations)

You'll need to pay for all costs associated with the installation and the electricity usage for your charging station. (https://www.hoalawblog.com/civil_code_4745_electric_vehi_1/)

The scope of this right was expanded in 2018 with SB 1016, which clarified that homeowners have the right to install EV charging stations in their "units," not just in their designated parking spaces. (https://hoalaw.tinnellylaw.com/new-law-expands-rights-to-use-ev-charging-stations-in-hoas/)

If installation in your designated parking space is impossible or unreasonably expensive, there are alternative options:

The association may authorize installation in a common area that is not an exclusive use common area. In this case, the association would enter into a license agreement with you for the use of that space. (https://www.hoalawblog.com/civil_code_4745_electric_vehi_1/)

The association may also create a new parking space where one didn't previously exist to facilitate the installation of an EV charging station. (https://www.hoalawblog.com/civil_code_4745_electric_vehi_1/)

While the association can impose reasonable restrictions on installation, California's policy is explicitly designed to "promote, encourage, and remove obstacles to the use of electric vehicle charging." (https://pluginamerica.org/policy/right-to-charge-policies/)

 

[youppi]

The cost to install EV chargers on a new apartment building are way more than adding a 40 amp circuit. A level 2 charger cost would be between $5,000- $10,000 in a commercial building depending on factors such as permitting and design for indoor, outdoor and how many tenants occupy the building.

Then there are the yearly costs that include the maintenance of the chargers and parking spot and insurance. Insurance companies look at ev charging stations in multi-family dwellings as a potential fire hazard and a point of vandalism so the insurance premiums are higher with the charger than without.

Bill

I think he was talking about a 220V outlet (3 or 4 prong) and not a full L2 charger.
You can use a portable EV charger and plug it to a 120V or 220V outlet to charge an EV car.
This is an example of a portable charger: https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-...-25-Ft-Cable-Weatherproof-DXPAEV032/328800482

 

[easyrider]

And… several seconds later, Claude confirmed what I thought. Remember this is for a condo, not an apartment.

ETA: it seems even for apartments in California, there are provisions for renters to install their own charger.

Yes, in CA you have the right to charge but it follows established electrical regs such as a dedicated breaker, ground fault device and permitting at the owners expense. The owner is also required to remove the EV equipment when they move if the HOA requests this. What I'm saying Ken is it just isn't worth it for most people.

I think he was talking about a 220V outlet (3 or 4 prong) and not a full L2 charger.
You can use a portable EV charger and plug it to a 120V or 220V outlet to charge an EV car.
This is an example of a portable charger: https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-...-25-Ft-Cable-Weatherproof-DXPAEV032/328800482

I like the Dewalt type charger. Matches some of my tools, lol.

Bill

 

[Ken555]

Yes, in CA you have the right to charge but it follows established electrical regs such as a dedicated breaker, ground fault device and permitting at the owners expense. The owner is also required to remove the EV equipment when they move if the HOA requests this. What I'm saying Ken is it just isn't worth it for most people.

That's not what you wrote earlier. And whether or not its worth it is a separate issue from it being permitted at all. As always, your posts are lacking in...facts.

 

[easyrider]

@Ken555 My first response was about solar power which is what I thought you were talking about. My second response was about the CA Rule for ev chargers in multi-family dwellings cost. My third response is it seems illogical to pay so much for so little especially when that person could buy a hybrid. In other words, that type of person is a bit foolish, imo.

I get that you enjoy insulting me, and I think it's funny, but it makes you seem as foolish as a person trying to install an EV charger in a multi-family condo with a HOA. Especially when we know you travel and that travel is one of the most carbon creating activities a person can do.

Bill

 

[Ken555]

@Ken555 My first response was about solar power which is what I thought you were talking about. My second response was about the CA Rule for ev chargers in multi-family dwellings cost. My third response is it seems illogical to pay so much for so little especially when that person could buy a hybrid. In other words, that type of person is a bit foolish, imo.

I get that you enjoy insulting me, and I think it's funny, but it makes you seem as foolish as a person trying to install an EV charger in a multi-family condo with a HOA. Especially when we know you travel and that travel is one of the most carbon creating activities a person can do.

Bill

You just keep digging that hole deeper with every post.

 

[youppi]

Out of curiosity, are there any owners of fully EVs here who do not have a charging station or option at home and therefore, must rely on public charging stations or chargers at their place of work?

Any pros and cons? Likes and dislikes? Regrets?

Unfortunately at this time, our building does not have a charging port and EV owners are not allowed to use the 120 V outlets to charge cars.

I know it's been recommended that people should not buy EVs if they do not have a charging port at home.

I'm just weighing all my options right now when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle.

If you have access to a L2 charger at a walking distance of your home and often available like the picture bellow and doesn't cost too much (the L2 charger in the bellow picture charges 2 CAD per hour as per chargehub), it's doable but I would not recommend buying an EV car if you must use all the time L3 chargers because they supposedly reduce the battery life.

Don't forget that all L2 charger are not equal. The one in this picture is only a 29A/6.2kW and due to it charges 2 CAD per hour and not per kW used then it will cost more than using a more powerful L2 charger if your car can take it because it will take less time to charge on a more powerful charger.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The cost to install EV chargers on a new apartment building are way more than adding a 40 amp circuit. A level 2 charger cost would be between $5,000- $10,000 in a commercial building depending on factors such as permitting and design for indoor, outdoor and how many tenants occupy the building.

Then there are the yearly costs that include the maintenance of the chargers and parking spot and insurance. Insurance companies look at ev charging stations in multi-family dwellings as a potential fire hazard and a point of vandalism so the insurance premiums are higher with the charger than without.

Bill

Most of my friends that live in townhomes or condo's simply install a NEMA 14/50 outlet and use their mobile charger - it's much cheaper to install a NEMA outlet vs a full-on dedicated L2 charger - typically only $200-400 range for a 240v 50 amp outlet. We don't have to deal with the onerous regs that most west coast states have on the books so it's easier to deal with things like this on the east coast IME.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Tesla just released the LR RWD CT yesterday. So far, it's basically a stripped down RWD version of the AWD CT. Not something I'd consider personally - $70k vs $80k - the only positive is up to 362 miles of range with an optional soft manual tonneau cover.

Loading…

www.tesla.com

Textile seats (black only)
7 speaker vs 15 speaker a/v system
No air suspension
No tonneau cover (optional manual soft cover)
No bed outlets (what?)
No rear screen
RWD only
Other items removed

This model was supposed to be around $60k - not $70k. It's obvious Tesla is having issues ramping production and getting costs down for the CT due to the unique design aspects. I'll be curious to see the uptake on this model moving forward.

 

[easyrider]

So far, this is the best looking EV pickup I've seen. Silverado EV.

Bill

 

[LannyPC]

If I were a developer, building apartments/condos, I would install level 2 outlets in each parking stall. It would cost no more than the stove or dryer outlets in each apartment anyway. This would make get another reason for people to choose my building th live in instead of another without this amenity.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe there's a law now this province that buildings built after a certain time must have car charging ports. Unfortunately, our building was built long before charging ports came along.

 

[youppi]

So far, this is the best looking EV pickup I've seen. Silverado EV.

Bill

View attachment 109012

I agree with the look but GM's decision to put a huge battery to get a long range, set the weight to over 8,500 lbs and this may trigger some special rules in some countries.

 

[easyrider]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe there's a law now this province that buildings built after a certain time must have car charging ports. Unfortunately, our building was built long before charging ports came along.

In Washington State regarding commercial renovations there is an ev charger requirement. It's 10% of the parking spaces are required to be L2 EV charging parking spaces and an additional 10% of the parking spaces are required to be L2 EV ready meaning all of the equipment for the chargers are ready.

Bill

 

[easyrider]

I agree with the look but GM's decision to put a huge battery to get a long range, set the weight to over 8,500 lbs and this may trigger some special rules in some countries.

I use four large deep cycle batteries for a trolling motor if I'm out all day. My grandson in law came over and told me about a new lithium deep cycle battery that would last all day and only weigh 25 pounds. I thought that would be kind of easy to lift and it's only one to charge up.

Bill

 

[davidvel]

You just keep digging that hole deeper with every post.

Yep, still slinging incoherent opinion as fact. You and everyone else are clearly talking about car chargers, not solar panels.

 

[Chrispee]

Out of curiosity, are there any owners of fully EVs here who do not have a charging station or option at home and therefore, must rely on public charging stations or chargers at their place of work?

Any pros and cons? Likes and dislikes? Regrets?

Unfortunately at this time, our building does not have a charging port and EV owners are not allowed to use the 120 V outlets to charge cars.

I know it's been recommended that people should not buy EVs if they do not have a charging port at home.

I'm just weighing all my options right now when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle.

Way back in 2019 I had a Model 3 standard range that I had to charge predominantly with public charging. I did string an extension cord through my front yard and up through a boulevard tree to the street, but it was slow as heck so I rarely used it. I had a level 3 charger less than 10 mins from my place, and since these were early days BC Hydro had it as free of cost to use. I think only reason it worked out for me was because the public charger was in a spot where I could go and grab a coffee and relax for 30 mins. Honestly I wouldn't choose to do it again at this point in my life as it cuts down on two of the best aspects of EV ownership; cost savings of electricity vs gas, and convenience of parking at home and having a fully charged car ready to go the next day.

 

[DrQ]

public charger was in a spot where I could go and grab a coffee and relax for 30 mins

Timmy Horton's?