Yet another issue with Sicily Trip

[ScoopKona]

It's really easy to come up with reasons *not* to travel, but I also see people saying "I wish I could do X but now I'm not in good health" or "I have to take care of family member" but regretting they didn't get to go to X.

George S Patton: A good plan, violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

I'll never understand why people get so bogged down in the itinerary and "seeing" part of a trip, when it's the doing that people remember for a lifetime. Doing is far more important to me than seeing. That's why travel never stresses me out. And planning a trip is literal child's play. We plan all our trips around "what do we want to do when we get there?"

Rushing around like there are hot coals in our shoes is simply no fun.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

When I was in my 20s and traveling to Europe for work, I would happily travel around Europe and not have any hotels planned. I stayed in nice local guesthouses that I sometimes arranged the same day. Some were not great but most were fine. Now I want to have my hotels planned so I don't need to think about it when I travel. I also have a higher expectation of quality.

WRT: daily trips. ChatGPT does a great job of building daily itineraries. I ask it to write me a walking tour of XYZ town from my hotel with most important sites, restaurants and museums. Tell me walking distances and directions on each. Tell me about historical significance in the tone of Rick Steves. I have to massage the info and edit prompts to get what I want but this builds a nice basic plan for the day.

I also ask it to build me a destination itinerary for the week with recommended hotels, restaurants and sites as a framework. I also review tours like Rick Steves to see where they go.

Feel free to go off the plan but I find it is a way to make sure you see everything important. I am at the age where I may not be able to re-visit places so I want to be sure I have seen the most important sites while there.

It is work. A tour group or cruise will do this for you. Different style of travel. Both okay. For me planning is half the fun.

 

[susieq]

I'll never understand why people get so bogged down in the itinerary and "seeing" part of a trip, when it's the doing that people remember for a lifetime.

Different strokes for different folks.................

 

[jp10558]

George S Patton: A good plan, violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

I'll never understand why people get so bogged down in the itinerary and "seeing" part of a trip, when it's the doing that people remember for a lifetime. Doing is far more important to me than seeing. That's why travel never stresses me out. And planning a trip is literal child's play. We plan all our trips around "what do we want to do when we get there?"

Rushing around like there are hot coals in our shoes is simply no fun.

We are kind of the opposite. I'm finding that the best thing about timeshares is that you can go to one cause it's cheap and then kind of just explore the area and if there's something we can't do because of booking, well - it might be a reason to return. My biggest gripe kind of is that traditional timeshares have you arrive on a Sat and leave early on the Sat. So why do many of the events that are "bigger" like concerts etc get scheduled for the Friday / Saturday - basically the packing / travelling days?

 

[ScoopKona]

So why do many of the events that are "bigger" like concerts etc get scheduled for the Friday / Saturday - basically the packing / travelling days?

Timeshares, airline ticket pricing and similar are based on what the majority of people do. Most people travel on a Friday or Saturday. And locals also go to shows on those days.

People can either pay, or adjust their schedule in order to benefit. We typically fly on Tuesdays because the tickets often cost less. For some of our trips, this is a significant chunk of change. It doesn't always work out like that. But often it does. I always search for flights +/- three days. Just stay in a hotel until the timeshare check in -- typically someplace near enough but also far enough away that it's not redundant.

We oftenattend concerts on our trips and run into this exact problem. But since the places we go for concerts usually don't have timeshares, this works out logistically. Fly into London, see a show at the Albert. Do some London stuff. And then take a train to wherever our UK timeshare happens to be. Replace "concert" with cooking class, wine tasting, olive picking and curing, stargazing and similar. But the main thing is to leave enough time to avoid the "running around like there are hot coals in our shoes" and "Tuesday? Must be Belgium" syndromes.

If people enjoy this, that'd be one thing. But mostly I see a load of stressed out people having no fun, but also obstinately unwilling to adjust how they travel so they aren't always stressed out. This should be enjoyable, after all. Not ulcer-inducing.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

You are very lucky to have flexibility to go when you want. Not everyone has that.

Some people don't have the budget to stay extra nights. They've maxed out their budget to pay for the tour or timeshare and want to get the most for their money.

Some only have limited time off or need to return to care for loved ones or pets.

They may not view it as ulcer inducing. This may be the trip of their lives.

 

[Cornell]

You are very lucky to have flexibility to go when you want. Not everyone has that.

Some people don't have the budget to stay extra nights. They've maxed out their budget to pay for the tour or timeshare and want to get the most for their money.

Some only have limited time off or need to return to care for loved ones or pets.

They may not view it as ulcer inducing. This may be the trip of their lives.

Exactly. The inability to understand that all people are not the same , and not one type is right or wrong, never ceases to amaze me.

 

[slip]

TUG is more or less a travel website so you are going to get a majority of go answers.

You already said this will be your last big trip and maybe last trip flying. I think this is one of those, you can't go wrong decisions.

If you go, you'll be happy when you get home but happy you made the trip. If you stay home, you won't be sitting around the rest of your life regretting not going. You will simply move on with life and probably do things that you enjoy and love.

Don't stress on the decision. Just make it and enjoy it, either way.

 

[ScoopKona]

You are very lucky to have flexibility to go when you want.

Luck has nothing to do with it. Travel is a priority for me. So I have built a life where travel is treated like a priority. I cut back (way back) in other areas so that we can travel. We also travel in such a way that besides airfare and accommodations, travel costs no more than our day-to-day life. I can't do anything about airfare. But I can do something about accommodations and the cost of restaurants. I'd rather visit Iceland and stay in a hostel than not be able to afford to visit Iceland at all.

In addition, we take the "we'll see/do it next time when we come back" philosophy. Even if I'm 90-years old, I'm going to assume that I'll see it when I come back at 91. Trying to cram it all into one trip the polar opposite.

And, again, if people enjoy seeing the world on a strict timetable, that's great. More power to 'em. But most people really seem to hate having an itinerary millstone around their necks. They keep doing it because... who knows why? It's certainly not mandatory. We're definitely in the idiom, "you can lead a horse to water..."

 

[WinniWoman]

This ^^^

My Mother deferred plans to do just about anything for "later." She'd say, "Someday I'm going to go to..." or "When I find the time, I'll do..." She never did anything. Then she was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer, and died three months later, at 67. That convinced me to just do things. Even if it's not a perfect trip, it's still a trip. It's about experiences, not a perfect itinerary.

Our three-week bucket list trip to Italy and Greece starts tomorrow. Is it perfectly planned, down to the last detail? Maybe? Maybe not? We'll find out. I've done my due diligence, planned for what I can see from here, and I'm comfortable jumping into this. If I missed something THAT important, I'll have to make plans to go again. But at least I'll be able to appreciate what we DID see and do.

Life is truly a journey, not a destination. The older I get, the more I believe that.

Go for it, Maryann. And eat dessert first. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Ask my Mother.

Dave

Thanks! Safe travels tomorrow, Dave! Have a great time!

 

[davidvel]

George S Patton: A good plan, violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.

I'll never understand why people get so bogged down in the itinerary and "seeing" part of a trip, when it's the doing that people remember for a lifetime. Doing is far more important to me than seeing. That's why travel never stresses me out. And planning a trip is literal child's play. We plan all our trips around "what do we want to do when we get there?"

Rushing around like there are hot coals in our shoes is simply no fun.

What is harder to understand is how some people have very little insight into others. Lacking in empathy for those that may have anxiety or other struggles. Always telling people what you think they should do, while barely listening to their needs, or just discounting them outright based on your life and beliefs. Being the person who does everything perfectly, if not cavalierly, never with a regret or error. Discounting others by saying everything is easy-peasy or child play or similar demeaning comments.

 

[slip]

What is harder to understand is how some people have very little insight into others. Lacking in empathy for those that may have anxiety or other struggles. Always telling people what you think they should do, while barely listening to their needs, or just discounting them outright based on your life and beliefs. Being the person who does everything perfectly, if not cavalierly, never with a regret or error. Discounting others by saying everything is easy-peasy or child play or similar demeaning comments.

Well said. Same thing, different thread, over and over.

And you know-"We're definitely in the idiom, "you can lead a horse to water...""

 

[jp10558]

What is harder to understand is how some people have very little insight into others. Lacking in empathy for those that may have anxiety or other struggles. Always telling people what you think they should do, while barely listening to their needs, or just discounting them outright based on your life and beliefs. Being the person who does everything perfectly, if not cavalierly, never with a regret or error. Discounting others by saying everything is easy-peasy or child play or similar demeaning comments.

I usually wouldn't defend ScoopKona, but in this case I think what he probably means is more like "I don't understand people complaining about or seemingly very much not enjoying doing X while seemingly refusing to take any other perspective, consider other options, or contemplate changing how they do something". I feel this way all the time - sometimes you just want to vent about life, and that's fine, but if you're going to post in a travel forum, people will (not wrongly IMHO) assume (without other comments) that they're looking for some assistance with the issue.

I also think that while ScoopKona isn't the most empathetic person from his posts here, he's also not wrong to point out that if life circumstances force you to do something a certain way - at least some of those circumstances often are under your control. You can decide what your priorities are.

I also think it's often a "duh, I never thought about it that way". Or "I thought it would be very hard to do X". This forum has disabused me of many notions about needing to be rich, or 100% travel focused to go on a lot of trips. Timeshares are the example - most people think they cost $40,000 up front and take impossible levels of planning, or that there's no way any Last Call can be fun or vaguely nice. We're just telling people the changes you'd need to make to save money.

ScoopKona is saying the same with flights - too many people (myself included sadly) think 100% timeshare or 100% hotel for a trip, but sometimes it makes sense to shift the days a little to save big on flights... That's not having little insight, it's informing people or helping them maybe shift their perspective slowly. The amount of times I've thought "Why didn't I think of that / I really can't believe I didn't think of that"...

 

[Patri]

Luck has nothing to do with it. Travel is a priority for me.

We don’t care.

 

[susieq]

Thanks! Safe travels tomorrow, Dave! Have a great time!

Ditto!! What she said ~ have a wonderful vacation!!!

 

[rapmarks]

i Think it is totally normal for winniwoman to have anxiety about this trip. They have physical limitations and don’t want stress.
i am older than them, I feel that I figuratively live life with one foot on a banana peel and one foot on a sheet of ice.
some of you have helped her assure her about the volcano eruption and other things. Some are not as helpful. I hope she goes on the trip. I regret I have never been there, I have ancestors from an Italy.

 

[ScoopKona]

ScoopKona is saying the same with flights - too many people (myself included sadly) think 100% timeshare or 100% hotel for a trip, but sometimes it makes sense to shift the days a little to save big on flights... That's not having little insight, it's informing people or helping them maybe shift their perspective slowly. The amount of times I've thought "Why didn't I think of that / I really can't believe I didn't think of that"...

Well, thanks for the assist...

I've mentioned my relative who canceled a trip to Napa because of bad weather. We took her to one of the better restaurants in Las Vegas. She already knows how my wife and I order at restaurants so this didn't come as a surprise to her. When we go out to eat, it's because the restaurant is "built-a-trip-around-this-destination-worthy." Anything else, I'll just make it myself.

I never order off the menu. Never. The first thing I do is learn the name of the executive chef and where this person worked previously. If I can learn more about any other back of house staff, I do. I like to have a good idea what their strengths are. When it comes time to order, I say this pretty-much verbatim: "Is [name of Exec] expediting today? Great. Please tell him/her that we have no food allergies or aversions. We would like two different appetizers, two different entrees and we'll split a dessert."

That's it. Not once in a lifetime of doing this has the chef sent the two most expensive entrees. Usually, we get two apps which seque well into two entrees and a comment from the chef, "The oysters and branzino are particularly good today so that's why you're getting [these entrees.]"

Often, we'll get food that isn't on the menu at all -- "my mother taught me how to make this. Let's see what you think." Rarely, they'll send out a small plate of every single thing they make. It's happened a few times. What always happens, though, is we get a much higher-quality meal than if we had ordered the way everyone else does. The chef gets to showcase whatever he or she feels like showcasing tonight. And it's a win-win for everyone involved. It's basically like asking a professional musician to play whatever they want.

My relative always thought this was a great idea. But when it came time to order, she froze and panicked. She was incapable of letting go and letting someone else decide what she was eating tonight, even though it is the best option as far as meal-quality goes.

If someone is allergic to half the menu, obviously that's not going to work. But for people who don't have a laundry list of allergies and who also don't mind eating their veggies, it's a strategy which works well.

And I'd be astonished if more than one or two people read this and try it.

 

[Cornell]

Well, thanks for the assist...

I've mentioned my relative who canceled a trip to Napa because of bad weather. We took her to one of the better restaurants in Las Vegas. She already knows how my wife and I order at restaurants so this didn't come as a surprise to her. When we go out to eat, it's because the restaurant is "built-a-trip-around-this-destination-worthy." Anything else, I'll just make it myself.

I never order off the menu. Never. The first thing I do is learn the name of the executive chef and where this person worked previously. If I can learn more about any other back of house staff, I do. I like to have a good idea what their strengths are. When it comes time to order, I say this pretty-much verbatim: "Is [name of Exec] expediting today? Great. Please tell him/her that we have no food allergies or aversions. We would like two different appetizers, two different entrees and we'll split a dessert."

That's it. Not once in a lifetime of doing this has the chef sent the two most expensive entrees. Usually, we get two apps which seque well into two entrees and a comment from the chef, "The oysters and branzino are particularly good today so that's why you're getting [these entrees.]"

Often, we'll get food that isn't on the menu at all -- "my mother taught me how to make this. Let's see what you think." Rarely, they'll send out a small plate of every single thing they make. It's happened a few times. What always happens, though, is we get a much higher-quality meal than if we had ordered the way everyone else does. The chef gets to showcase whatever he or she feels like showcasing tonight. And it's a win-win for everyone involved. It's basically like asking a professional musician to play whatever they want.

My relative always thought this was a great idea. But when it came time to order, she froze and panicked. She was incapable of letting go and letting someone else decide what she was eating tonight, even though it is the best option as far as meal-quality goes.

If someone is allergic to half the menu, obviously that's not going to work. But for people who don't have a laundry list of allergies and who also don't mind eating their veggies, it's a strategy which works well.

And I'd be astonished if more than one or two people read this and try it.

What does ANY of this have do with @WinniWoman actual post?

Answer: nothing

 

[slip]

Another rerun, same story different thread. It has nothing to do with the thread but it just another opportunity to be so shocked that people don't listen to the smartest person in the room.

 

[davidvel]

Another rerun, same story different thread. It has nothing to do with the thread but it just another opportunity to be so shocked that people don't listen to the smartest person in the room.

Exactly, just doubling down on do it my way, and you should too, otherwise you are an &*^*^(.

 

[Brett]

Well, thanks for the assist...

I've mentioned my relative who canceled a trip to Napa because of bad weather. We took her to one of the better restaurants in Las Vegas. She already knows how my wife and I order at restaurants so this didn't come as a surprise to her. When we go out to eat, it's because the restaurant is "built-a-trip-around-this-destination-worthy." Anything else, I'll just make it myself.

I never order off the menu. Never. The first thing I do is learn the name of the executive chef and where this person worked previously. If I can learn more about any other back of house staff, I do. I like to have a good idea what their strengths are. When it comes time to order, I say this pretty-much verbatim: "Is [name of Exec] expediting today? Great. Please tell him/her that we have no food allergies or aversions. We would like two different appetizers, two different entrees and we'll split a dessert."

That's it. Not once in a lifetime of doing this has the chef sent the two most expensive entrees. Usually, we get two apps which seque well into two entrees and a comment from the chef, "The oysters and branzino are particularly good today so that's why you're getting [these entrees.]"

Often, we'll get food that isn't on the menu at all -- "my mother taught me how to make this. Let's see what you think." Rarely, they'll send out a small plate of every single thing they make. It's happened a few times. What always happens, though, is we get a much higher-quality meal than if we had ordered the way everyone else does. The chef gets to showcase whatever he or she feels like showcasing tonight. And it's a win-win for everyone involved. It's basically like asking a professional musician to play whatever they want.

My relative always thought this was a great idea. But when it came time to order, she froze and panicked. She was incapable of letting go and letting someone else decide what she was eating tonight, even though it is the best option as far as meal-quality goes.

If someone is allergic to half the menu, obviously that's not going to work. But for people who don't have a laundry list of allergies and who also don't mind eating their veggies, it's a strategy which works well.

And I'd be astonished if more than one or two people read this and try it.

"I never order off the menu. Never. The first thing I do is learn the name of the executive chef and where this person worked previously."

I'm reading it. Maybe I'll try that advice when I place my order at Earl's Diner in Gallup, NM today

Somehow I think I'll end up with the meatloaf and mash potatoes

........... and it probably won't help the OP

 

[Ski-Dad]

We don’t care.

Perhaps one of the rudest things I have ever seen posted on TUG. If you truly did not care, you would not bother responding. Civility begets civility.

 

[Luanne]

Perhaps one of the rudest things I have ever seen posted on TUG. If you truly did not care, you would not bother responding. Civility begets civility.

Exactly. So look at the source of why these comments are being made.

 

[Ski-Dad]

Exactly. So look at the source of why these comments are being made.

This is the fertile ground of incivility. If you find someone rude or obnoxious, stop engaging with them. Or block them. Returning in kind simply makes you the same person you are complaining about.

My 2 cents

 

[DaveNV]

Ditto!! What she said ~ have a wonderful vacation!!!

Thanks, Sue! We're really looking forward to this, if only to prove that Tuggers truly are the best people around, when it comes to planning a trip like this. I'll post a trip report when we get back.

Dave