I can compare blended trading power of Westin Desert Willow, SDO and SBR to Marriott trading power, and we have been downgraded in II

[rickandcindy23]

This has been a discussion on the Sightings/ Distressed board.

With reserved dates in platinum season, I can see bigger units and better inventory with Marriott to Marriott than with Sheraton/ Westin to Sheraton/ Westin. It's a big change in trading power. Giving us a blended trading power for our SBR, SDO and WDW deeded weeks is detrimental to owners. In fact, unless you own a lockoff 2 bedroom at SBR or SDO, you won't see any 2 bedrooms at Westin Nanea as they come available.

I have booked Sands of Kahana for the weeks I need for February of 2025 because I am afraid I won't get anything for that week I needed.

This is a problem for the blended trading power we get with our deeded Sheratons and Westins (we own Desert Willow platinum resale, also). A 2 bedroom dedicated unit at SBR is required to get a one bedroom at Westin and no longer pulls Westin Nanea 2 bedrooms at all. One bedrooms see some studios at Westin on Maui.

 

[Hindsite]

Interesting, they do seem to be shuffling things about. Is it just trading in to Hawaii that you see the difference or is it to other destinations or brands too? e.g is there any change to DVC inventory that you see?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Interesting, they do seem to be shuffling things about. Is it just trading in to Hawaii that you see the difference or is it to other destinations or brands too? e.g is there any change to DVC inventory that you see?

Let's hope it's temporary, but I still see Disney with my weeks. Don't know if some trading power is lost but what I need is still there. For example, I booked a 1 bed OKW for 10/5 with a 1 bed side B (small side) of the lockoff. Just booked that week today.

 

[marmite]

@rickandcindy23 do you at least see the 1BR March 2025 weeks for Sheraton Kauai Resort (SKR) with a 1BR? Both my A and B side of SDO can see those.

 

[Ski-Dad]

You prompted me to test my small SDO 1 bedroom. Quite disappointing. Previously, I could see Westin Nanea 2 bedrooms.

I thought I noted a drop in what I was seeing between my 2024 and 2025 weeks. I have spent my 2024 deposits so I cannot compare, but I noted a difference when I started using 2025 weeks in my manual searches.

 

[rickandcindy23]

@rickandcindy23 do you at least see the 1BR March 2025 weeks for Sheraton Kauai Resort (SKR) with a 1BR? Both my A and B side of SDO can see those.

I can see the studios only with SBR Gold Plus Season 1 bedroom side A. I can only see the one bedrooms with a 2 bedroom SBR Gold Plus Season. I am so disappointed.

I did book a studio for a week 3/21-3/28 at Westin North a few days ago. I hope to get a retrade upgrade to a one bedroom with that one bedroom side A SBR.

 

[HenryT]

This has been a discussion on the Sightings/ Distressed board.

With reserved dates in platinum season, I can see bigger units and better inventory with Marriott to Marriott than with Sheraton/ Westin to Sheraton/ Westin. It's a big change in trading power. Giving us a blended trading power for our SBR, SDO and WDW deeded weeks is detrimental to owners. In fact, unless you own a lockoff 2 bedroom at SBR or SDO, you won't see any 2 bedrooms at Westin Nanea as they come available.

I have booked Sands of Kahana for the weeks I need for February of 2025 because I am afraid I won't get anything for that week I needed.

This is a problem for the blended trading power we get with our deeded Sheratons and Westins (we own Desert Willow platinum resale, also). A 2 bedroom dedicated unit at SBR is required to get a one bedroom at Westin and no longer pulls Westin Nanea 2 bedrooms at all. One bedrooms see some studios at Westin on Maui.

I exchanged a 2 bedroom dedicted unit at SBR for a 2 bedroom unit at Westin Nanea. The check-in date at the Nanea was 11/10/2023 and I made the exchange on 1/6/2023.

 

[Ken555]

I exchanged a 2 bedroom dedicted unit at SBR for a 2 bedroom unit at Westin Nanea. The check-in date at the Nanea was 11/10/2023 and I made the exchange on 1/6/2023.

Booking earlier in the year was better. At that time I exchanged a SDO 1-bed for a WKORV-N 1-bed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rickandcindy23]

I can always make Sheraton work for me because I can take a one bedroom for a 2 bedroom SBR. I will do it, even if it's costing a bit more. Still a bargain.

Maybe trading power will adjust back at some point. If I start getting matches for Westin Nanea with my Marriott platinum weeks, I will call II and ask why we have had our TP devalued like this, when it's Vistana and II that decided we had to deposit with this blended trading power of the season (weeks 9-43, 47). SDO, same thing. But my platinum Westin Desert Willow not pulling Westin Nanea anymore, that is not okay.

 

[daviator]

I am not an II expert. But I feel like many Vistana properties used to pull beyond their weight, so to speak, and maybe that isn’t happening any more.

I own at Desert Willow and WKORV, and it always seemed a little crazy that a Desert Willow week could pull an equivalent week in Maui where both the demand and the MFs are so much higher.

Now that MVC has essentially adjusted the weight of the various properties with their Abound values, maybe they are using similar values to determine what you can pull in II.

Their goal is probably to see all of the inventory get used and to extract the highest cost for it they can. If they can get rid of all the excess Nanea inventory without having to trade it for far less valuable WDW weeks, it’s easy to see why they’d prefer to do thst.

I’m not trashing WDW, I love the property and am literally sitting at the Ironwood pool as I type this. But it doesn’t have the same value in the system as Nanea and I feel like it’s a bit of a fluke that people have been able to make that kind of trade easily in the past.

It seems like you might still be able to make that kind of trade within SVN if your WDW is enrolled.

 

[krj9999]

I was pretty shocked that my 2025 SDO plat small 1BR deposit couldn't even see a WKORV studio for same-day check-in this morning.

 

[krj9999]

I was pretty shocked that my 2025 SDO plat small 1BR deposit couldn't even see a WKORV studio for same-day check-in this morning.

Just doing a quick test - for 4/21/24-4/23/25 my 2024 SDO deposit (via E+ retrade) can see 23 resorts with at least 1 unit available in Hawaii; the same 2025 deposit can only see 9 resorts.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am not an II expert. But I feel like many Vistana properties used to pull beyond their weight, so to speak, and maybe that isn’t happening any more.

I own at Desert Willow and WKORV, and it always seemed a little crazy that a Desert Willow week could pull an equivalent week in Maui where both the demand and the MFs are so much higher.

Now that MVC has essentially adjusted the weight of the various properties with their Abound values, maybe they are using similar values to determine what you can pull in II.

Their goal is probably to see all of the inventory get used and to extract the highest cost for it they can. If they can get rid of all the excess Nanea inventory without having to trade it for far less valuable WDW weeks, it’s easy to see why they’d prefer to do thst.

I’m not trashing WDW, I love the property and am literally sitting at the Ironwood pool as I type this. But it doesn’t have the same value in the system as Nanea and I feel like it’s a bit of a fluke that people have been able to make that kind of trade easily in the past.

It seems like you might still be able to make that kind of trade within SVN if your WDW is enrolled.

What should it take to get Westin on Maui and Kauai? What resorts are worthy of that trade through II, in your opinion. Just curious.

 

[CPNY]

The smaller Vistana true one bedrooms should have higher trade power than any Marriott studio, I don't care what resort you compare it to. The room amenities outweigh Marriott's studios which are nothing more than a room at a courtyard Marriott. They should being able to pull other Vistana 2 bedrooms with an upgrade fee. My Gold Plus HRA 1 bedroom premium sees more than my Platinum small one bedrooms at SVV and WKV units.

It is my opinion that this is just another example of Marriott being Marriott and somehow being nefarious with Inventory to benefit their Marriott people. It's not a big deal for an east coaster who isn't looking to go to Hawaii every year but it was nice to have the option to fly 12 hours for a 2 bedroom in Maui. I would never make that trip to stay in a studio. Note: my new profile photo is of the beach at WNA In memory of the trades I used to be able to see haha.

 

[daviator]

What should it take to get Westin on Maui and Kauai? What resorts are worthy of that trade through II, in your opinion. Just curious.

I’d expect to be able to pull a Westin Maui studio from my 1BR WDW, or a Maui 1 BR from my entire 2 BR kickoff at WDW. Of course, it’s all about Marriott using that inventory so it’s possible there could be slow times when you could find a deal.

I just think there were a lot more deals in the past and that II/MVW has an incentive to make fewer of them available if they can fill bedrooms in more profitable ways.

I’m not saying that’s good (it obviously isn’t, for us) but I think it’s reality.

 

[timsi]

The smaller Vistana true one bedrooms should have higher trade power than any Marriott studio, I don't care what resort you compare it to. The room amenities outweigh Marriott's studios which are nothing more than a room at a courtyard Marriott. They should being able to pull other Vistana 2 bedrooms with an upgrade fee. My Gold Plus HRA 1 bedroom premium sees more than my Platinum small one bedrooms at SVV and WKV units.

It is my opinion that this is just another example of Marriott being Marriott and somehow being nefarious with Inventory to benefit their Marriott people. It's not a big deal for an east coaster who isn't looking to go to Hawaii every year but it was nice to have the option to fly 12 hours for a 2 bedroom in Maui. I would never make that trip to stay in a studio. Note: my new profile photo is of the beach at WNA In memory of the trades I used to be able to see haha.

I'm puzzled by what's happening with Interval's inventory. I thought that once post-Covid revenge travel subsided, the inventory levels would revert to their pre-pandemic norms. However, from what I've seen in my searches (and from what I see in the Sightings section), this hasn't been the case. I don’t think that people's habits have shifted significantly; rather, it seems likely that Marriott now has tools to reallocate inventory across different buckets they oversee, which weren't available to them before they acquired Interval. I've also noticed that many high value units are only deposited at the very last minute, suggesting that they are only transferred to Interval when there are no other options left.

Marriott has publicly expressed a desire to increase sales tours, without mentioning the matching need to acquire more inventory. I'm curious about how Interval fits into this strategy.

Regarding the trading power of specific Vistana units, I've observed the same as others. Few years ago I could see WNA with a Lagunamar studio, but that changed 1-2 years ago. After that I could still see those units with a 1 BR. Now it seems a full 2 BR is necessary. If fewer units qualify to book high-end units, these should theoretically be more available and last longer but I have not seen that at all. Additionally, you'd expect more inventory of larger Vistana units from other resorts if owners must deposit them to access the best Vistana units, like WNA. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case either.

 

[tourproto]

This is why I have such a negative opinion of II and don't use it.

I have been able to successfully use my StarOptions from WKV to directly book weeks at Westin Princeville and Nanea as long as I wasn't too picky about dates (and I mean a week one way or the other, not different months). I have even gotten ocean view rooms on Maui. I just log in a 9pm PT 8 months out and in a couple of days I will find what I am looking for.

 

[daviator]

I'm puzzled by what's happening with Interval's inventory. I thought that once post-Covid revenge travel subsided, the inventory levels would revert to their pre-pandemic norms. However, from what I've seen in my searches (and from what I see in the Sightings section), this hasn't been the case. I don’t think that people's habits have shifted significantly; rather, it seems likely that Marriott now has tools to reallocate inventory across different buckets they oversee, which weren't available to them before they acquired Interval. I've also noticed that many high value units are only deposited at the very last minute, suggesting that they are only transferred to Interval when there are no other options left.

Marriott has publicly expressed a desire to increase sales tours, without mentioning the matching need to acquire more inventory. I'm curious about how Interval fits into this strategy.

Regarding the trading power of specific Vistana units, I've observed the same as others. Few years ago I could see WNA with a Lagunamar studio, but that changed 1-2 years ago. After that I could still see those units with a 1 BR. Now it seems a full 2 BR is necessary. If fewer units qualify to book high-end units, these should theoretically be more available and last longer but I have not seen that at all. Additionally, you'd expect more inventory of larger Vistana units from other resorts if owners must deposit them to access the best Vistana units, like WNA. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case either.

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s WNA? I can only think of Nanea, but that seems like it would be WNOV or just WN, not sure what the A would be.

I would think that part of MVW’s goal would be to have as little of their inventory end up in II as possible, so I think you’re on to something when you suggest that they only drop inventory there as a last resort. But I lack a full understanding of how that process works from the developer’s standpoint and how they are compensated when they drop inventory into Interval. My assumption is that it’s just about the least lucrative thing they can do with inventory.

 

[timsi]

Forgive my ignorance, but what’s WNA? I can only think of Nanea, but that seems like it would be WNOV or just WN, not sure what the A would be.

I would think that part of MVW’s goal would be to have as little of their inventory end up in II as possible, so I think you’re on to something when you suggest that they only drop inventory there as a last resort. But I lack a full understanding of how that process works from the developer’s standpoint and how they are compensated when they drop inventory into Interval. My assumption is that it’s just about the least lucrative thing they can do with inventory.

As long as Vistana and Marriott owners deposit in Interval, their goal should not be to have "as little of their inventory end up in II as possible". WNA is the Interval code for Westin Nanea.

 

[Hindsite]

My assumption is that it’s just about the least lucrative thing they can do with inventory.

As with all things, we don't know the underlying business model for II, but if you have a read of some of the MVW investor briefs it sets out the upside of II in terms of being able to shift inventory. That said, there is often surprisingly good, well in advance inventory available in II. e.g Lakeshore reserved 1 bed full kitchen first week in sept for less than $550.

While II provides the internal weeks exchange platform for MVC to MVC weeks owners, so is great for that, it is truly terrible value for using club points, so far from an asset for MVC owners as a whole. They do use it to dump large volumes of low season exchange inventory many months in advance, which doesn't seem to appear in Abound or Destinations escapes, which is counter-intuitive. I'm surprised they don't make more of destinations escapes to draw in more club points usage via Abound.

If you speak with people connected to MVC sales, they will tell you that MVC hates II and inventory is going to be starved to feed Abound so buy Club points. That was the same message being peddled to MVC weeks owners since the points system was introduced in 2010, long before II was acquired by MVW. It hasn't happened yet and while natural attrition will be seeping inventory out of II, I'm confident that I'm good for another 20 years of getting twice the value from II that I could get from Abound. ..But then again Hyatt owners probably thought that too......
I'm sure if you speak to MVW inventory control people they love having II as a way to shift inventory, as well as being able to shuffle it through Abound, VSN and rentals.

I'm going to stake my $100 on a revised Abound/VSN/Westin/Sheraton/MVC website interface that makes it feel easier for owners to book across the different reservation systems, including II, but I'm not going to say when

 

[rickandcindy23]

As I said before, we have always had great trading power with our Sheratons, but it's changed and it's a sudden change.

I have gotten Marriott's Newport Coast with my Marriott's Willow Ridge (Branson) studios many times via ongoing search for early June and spring break dates. Marriott to Marriott trading power has been exceptional and has remained so. I would hope that my OGS with my Marriott one bedrooms won't pull a WNA 2 bedroom before my two bedroom SBP pulls it. I have OGS with all unit types for Westins on Maui. I need only one week now, and it's the week of 2/8. We will see what I get. I almost always get what I need, but I think I have to depend on my Marriott traders.

Maybe too many of us have bragged about exchanges to the salespeople. Just sayin'.

 

[TravelJoy]

Maybe too many of us have bragged about exchanges to the salespeople. Just sayin'.

Exactly, nothing good comes from it, as clueless as most are some items should just not be made for their consumption.

 

[krj9999]

Anyone have a contact at Vistana or II that I could reach out to regarding SDO and trading power. I spoke with a few people today at II that were no help. As it stands right now, I can't even see some 2025 SDO inventory available in II (e.g., week 21) with my 2025 SDO week which has a lower TDI than the lowest TDI for all of the Platinum weeks (let alone blended average). Fundamentally, that should not be the case. But unsure which side the issue is with (Vistana or II). Thanks - direct message is ok.

 

[VacationForever]

Anyone have a contact at Vistana or II that I could reach out to regarding SDO and trading power. I spoke with a few people today at II that were no help. As it stands right now, I can't even see some 2025 SDO inventory available in II (e.g., week 21) with my 2025 SDO week which has a lower TDI than the lowest TDI for all of the Platinum weeks (let alone blended average). Fundamentally, that should not be the case. But unsure which side the issue is with (Vistana or II). Thanks - direct message is ok.

Maybe it is not a trade issue and also not a probem on either side. Remember that II only has inventory when Vistana / MVC deposit there and when other weeks have traded out whatever have been deposited, you won't find those inventory.

I did check and find inventory for SDO Week 21 in II. I used a Gold Plus SVR 1B (Small 1BR) to check.

 

[dioxide45]

Anyone have a contact at Vistana or II that I could reach out to regarding SDO and trading power.

Interval International provides direct email for TUG member support

I have recieved notification today that Interval has created a special email address specifically for TUG members who need direct assistance with II questions/concerns/issues. tugmembers@intervalintl.com feel free to use this email for appropriate situations where perhaps the regular website...

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