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Retirement Advice From Those Who Learned the Hard Way

A freind of mine recommended the book Die with Zero. I have started it but have not gotten to far yet but have gotten the general idea of the philosophy.


Grupp, as noted in my previous post here…you should finish reading it and think about the concepts it embraces. Enjoy it!


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Retirement Advice From Those Who Learned the Hard Way
Regrets of their postwork lives include not giving more time to health, finances and relationships

https://www.wsj.com/articles/retirement-regrets-investments-relationships-b67a1080

Many retirees say they realized too late how they could have prepared for a more financially secure and rewarding postwork life. They would have focused on saving more money to cover the higher cost of living. Or they would have put more time into building relationships, taking better care of their health or cultivating new pursuits.

Investing for retirement means more than money

Jim Pilzner, a retired entrepreneur, regrets not setting goals for himself when he retired about four years ago. Now 78, he found there is only so much golf to play and only so many lunches to go to.
Retirees frequently don’t realize how much their career provided a sense of identity and self-worth. Many fail to grasp the need to plan for a different source of purpose in retirement

Relationships are the key to retirement The best predictor of longevity, health and happiness in later life is the quality of your relationships.
That is the finding of the Harvard Study of Adult Development, which has followed families for decades.



Retirement is longer than you think

Arthur Parmentier, 69, regrets retiring at 65, rather than working a few more years, partly because he missed out on a few more years of contributions to his retirement account.

Brett, good summary of the article.
I have been reading books about retirement (planning) for the past few years and most of them have nothing to do with the financial aspects of retirement.

I’m a big fan of Nancy Schlossberg, a psychologist who has written many of those books including the one I just finished “Revitalizing Retirement” (I gotta get this one back to the library and pick up the next one I’ve reserved…now that I will have more time to read).

The “non-financial” considerations of retirement are sometimes overlooked and not planned as carefully as the financial ones.

I’m confident that I will enjoy my retirement when it begins later this month.


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Pay raises and bonuses; suggestion only should go into a good mutual fund, which is in a Roth IRA, up to the contribution limit. IMHO

Fixed it for you. ;-)

After the contribution limit is reached, then I recommend a diverse bunch of ETFs and REITs. Anything that isn't precious metals, crypto, or "magic beans being sold by a hobo in the park."

I would go with more than just raises and bonuses -- especially in this lousy economy. I lived on 20% and invested the rest.
 
Retirement is a period where some doors close, and other doors open (at least for awhile.)

Status is a door that closes. People who value status will have a problem with that.
Time is a door that will open. To be happy with that, you have to be internally driven and self-disciplined. An extremely annoying (to me) advertisement I hear on the radio says that retirement is a time to be a teenager without supervision. ARRGH! YOU are the adult, and the only supervision you get is your own. And if you "blow it", there's no making up for that any more.

My retirement is busy, all with self imposed tasks. I garden, roses and other plants. I'm now keeping and breeding tropical fish. I enjoy my massive video library I built up since 1998. I read. I even do some writing, for entertainment. I trade stocks, for fun and profit. I travel occasionally. I read scientific papers in my old degree subjects (molecular biology). I post in various places from TUG to a forum on aging experiments (with working scientists - I am accepted there, even if I'm not a working scientist.) Today, I'm going to build an "impossible" computer - a Windows 7 machine on hardware that is supposedly impossible to do it on. (I like a challenge. If this works, then I'll build an Windows XP machine.) Next week is a tropical fish show in Houston.

Like my Dad in retirement, I'm busier than when I was working. . .
 
My advice is simply. Just start early saving your money.
Pay raises and bonuses; suggestion only should go into a good mutual fund. IMHO
The only challenge with this advice is that it works primarily for older people - but not for the younger generations living paycheck to paycheck. Some 60%+ of US households now report living paycheck to paycheck. Most of these are middle class households now. For those of us who've had 25-40 years of career experience and are making six figure incomes now - saving isn't a big deal - though admittedly it's becoming more difficult with recent price inflation issues. For my children for example, ages 28 and 26 - both of whom are making around 70k per year - they are having a lot of difficulty saving anything. With student loans (my kids all took stafford loans to pay a part of their college education expense), rent, car payments, etc., it's tough. They are both saving into 401ks - taking advantage of their "free money" matches, but not much beyond that at present unfortunately. Pay raises are more than offset by inflation over the past two years - with inflation having been in the 6-9% range and raises only coming in between 3-5% for example. I think, at least to some degree, the older BB generations really don't understand how hard it is for the younger generations to make things work these days. It's apples and oranges in many respects. The same rules don't apply - nor do they work nearly as well for the younger generations. Rents/mortgages - given the increases in real estate prices over the past 20 years - also mean that a much larger portion of household incomes are going to provide basic shelter than in times past. Something has to give here IMHO - what we're seeing - particularly for the younger generations - is unsustainable long term. There's a reason those generations don't buy into the same mantras and concepts that the older generations cling to - it's because they aren't working for those younger generations any longer.
 
I think, at least to some degree, the older BB generations really don't understand how hard it is for the younger generations to make things work these days. It's apples and oranges in many respects. The same rules don't apply - nor do they work nearly as well for the younger generations. Rents/mortgages - given the increases in real estate prices over the past 20 years - also mean that a much larger portion of household incomes are going to provide basic shelter than in times past. Something has to give here IMHO - what we're seeing - particularly for the younger generations - is unsustainable long term. There's a reason those generations don't buy into the same mantras and concepts that the older generations cling to - it's because they aren't working for those younger generations any longer.
We just made our retirement budget and have earmarked $ to help out kids. We'll likely have to supplement 2 younger college grad kids (22/23) for rents in DC area. My older DD (26) and significant other make well over $100K and are essentially a bit over paycheck to paycheck. Rent/utilities for (basic) small apt is almost $2500 in suburban DC. Gas prices eat into budget more than when we were young. And, they are the "lucky" ones with no student loans or car payments. She realizes that they will likely never save enough for a house. They are considering relocating jobs to move in with us in NC for up to 2 years to save for a house. But, what about those with student loans? Or living in an even more expensive area? Or without family help? I can see why the 20/30s don't have the same optimism that we had.
For reference, in 1985--StateU law school tuition was $900/semester, $150 for (used) law books, $175 for 1/2 share rent in 2br decent student apt.
 
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I am a few years from retirement. I worry about keeping busy. So one solution is moving to the town where I did my undergrad and get involved with the university. I also have rental properties there that should keep me busy. I fell fortunate since money will not be an issue. My issue will be staying engaged.
 
Status is a door that closes. People who value status will have a problem with that.

It's been the opposite for us. Retiring was an enormous improvement on status -- which I don't care one whit about.

The only challenge with this advice is that it works primarily for older people - but not for the younger generations living paycheck to paycheck. Some 60%+ of US households now report living paycheck to paycheck. Most of these are middle class households now. For those of us who've had 25-40 years of career experience and are making six figure incomes now - saving isn't a big deal - though admittedly it's becoming more difficult with recent price inflation issues.

This also isn't true. Young people can't have the kind of life their grandparents enjoyed -- that door is closed, that bridge is burned. And then their grandparents took the ashes; poured gasoline on them; and burned them again.

The big-picture problem is they are getting financial/work advice from their grandparents which includes "go pound the pavement" looking for work. Hasn't worked like that in a couple decades.

Sending resumes? Wrong century, gramps.

"Don't spend more than one-quarter of your income on your housing!" This is just preposterous in 2023.

Our overall economy isn't just lousy, it is cruel. I just mentioned this elsewhere : Consider that dumb sitcom "Married With Children." Today it's stupid not because of the toilet gags. It's stupid because in what universe does a shoe salesman provide for a family of four? That isn't even close to reality.

So young people have to get with the program and live in the economy they have, not the economy their grandparents enjoyed. That means extreme measures to make it over that first hurdle of home ownership. After that, they can start implementing more traditional financial schemes. But until then, platoon three shifts in a house. Six incomes is better than one. Side hustle as if your life depends on it -- because it does. And scrimp like your life depends on it -- because it does.

I was at the tail end of the last generation which could work their way through university. At the tail end of traditional home ownership schemes. And likely a little past the tail end of "Social Security providing a decent retirement." I've been watching the economy crumble behind me as I mad-dash to the next checkpoint. It's still possible to get ahead. But the generations behind me have to make larger and larger sacrifices to do so.
 
It's been the opposite for us. Retiring was an enormous improvement on status -- which I don't care one whit about.



This also isn't true. Young people can't have the kind of life their grandparents enjoyed -- that door is closed, that bridge is burned. And then their grandparents took the ashes; poured gasoline on them; and burned them again.

The big-picture problem is they are getting financial/work advice from their grandparents which includes "go pound the pavement" looking for work. Hasn't worked like that in a couple decades.

Sending resumes? Wrong century, gramps.

"Don't spend more than one-quarter of your income on your housing!" This is just preposterous in 2023.

Our overall economy isn't just lousy, it is cruel. I just mentioned this elsewhere : Consider that dumb sitcom "Married With Children." Today it's stupid not because of the toilet gags. It's stupid because in what universe does a shoe salesman provide for a family of four? That isn't even close to reality.

So young people have to get with the program and live in the economy they have, not the economy their grandparents enjoyed. That means extreme measures to make it over that first hurdle of home ownership. After that, they can start implementing more traditional financial schemes. But until then, platoon three shifts in a house. Six incomes is better than one. Side hustle as if your life depends on it -- because it does. And scrimp like your life depends on it -- because it does.

I was at the tail end of the last generation which could work their way through university. At the tail end of traditional home ownership schemes. And likely a little past the tail end of "Social Security providing a decent retirement." I've been watching the economy crumble behind me as I mad-dash to the next checkpoint. It's still possible to get ahead. But the generations behind me have to make larger and larger sacrifices to do so.
People have always had troubles retiring. It has nothing to do with this or that generation. People have retired, people have just retired and people will continue to retire and every story is different and things will continue to change.
 
People have always had troubles retiring. It has nothing to do with this or that generation. People have retired, people have just retired and people will continue to retire and every story is different and things will continue to change.
Of course it has everything to do with this or that generation.

Let's take some newly-minted college graduate entering the work force in 2023.

Let's also assume this graduate was born in 2000; the parents were born in 1975; and the grandparents were born in 1950. (They all start a family at the age of 25.)

Who has it better? The 2023 graduate? Or his or her grandfather, who entered the workforce after finishing university in 1962? It's not even close to the same.

'The 1962 graduate makes the average salary of $6,000 per year and buys the average house at $12,000. "Make half a house in salary every year? That's la-la land," says the 2023 graduate.
 
This also isn't true. Young people can't have the kind of life their grandparents enjoyed -- that door is closed, that bridge is burned. And then their grandparents took the ashes; poured gasoline on them; and burned them again.

Our overall economy isn't just lousy, it is cruel. I just mentioned this elsewhere : Consider that dumb sitcom "Married With Children." Today it's stupid not because of the toilet gags. It's stupid because in what universe does a shoe salesman provide for a family of four? That isn't even close to reality.

So young people have to get with the program and live in the economy they have, not the economy their grandparents enjoyed. That means extreme measures to make it over that first hurdle of home ownership. After that, they can start implementing more traditional financial schemes. But until then, platoon three shifts in a house. Six incomes is better than one. Side hustle as if your life depends on it -- because it does. And scrimp like your life depends on it -- because it does.

I was at the tail end of the last generation which could work their way through university. At the tail end of traditional home ownership schemes. And likely a little past the tail end of "Social Security providing a decent retirement." I've been watching the economy crumble behind me as I mad-dash to the next checkpoint. It's still possible to get ahead. But the generations behind me have to make larger and larger sacrifices to do so.
Some parts of this are true. But also consider that young people have opportunities that didn't exist for their grandparents. Granted, it's a small percentage of the population, but older generations couldn't strike it rich by videoing themselves doing silly dances or reviewing stuff or just straight up pontificating about nothing and putting in on the internet. Or via web-order business or conducting video-based lessons that the internet has facilitated. There's a lot of young folks making six figures this way, and an elite few making millions. In the old days, if you were born in the wrong place with nothing you were often stuck that way no matter how hard you tried. Now, someone in a bad situation just has to have the right personality and ideas that catch interest and they can skyrocket in ways that weren't possible before. The knife cuts both ways.
 
Of course it has everything to do with this or that generation.

Let's take some newly-minted college graduate entering the work force in 2023.

Let's also assume this graduate was born in 2000; the parents were born in 1975; and the grandparents were born in 1950. (They all start a family at the age of 25.)

Who has it better? The 2023 graduate? Or his or her grandfather, who entered the workforce after finishing university in 1962? It's not even close to the same.

'The 1962 graduate makes the average salary of $6,000 per year and buys the average house at $12,000. "Make half a house in salary every year? That's la-la land," says the 2023 graduate.
Why don't you go back a few generations also? There are always changes and hard times. People will continue to retire and others won't.
 
Why don't you go back a few generations also? There are always changes and hard times. People will continue to retire and others won't.

I'm not saying there aren't changes or hard times. It would suck to be a minority or female in 1962.

The ONLY thing I'm talking about is the big-picture economic outlook in 1962 (the grandfather entering the workforce) and 2023 (the grandchild entering the workforce).

The grandfather graduated debt free, could obtain a mortgage with almost no down payment, and earned half the value of his house each year.

The grandchild can't even imagine those things once being true -- he or she graduates with six figures of debt, and a college loan which cannot be erased even with bankruptcy. There are no "starter" homes any more. And salaries average $75K with an average house being a bit more than $400K.

Choose one: 1962 or 2023. I'll choose 1962 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 1962 had its own problems -- particularly for anyone who wasn't a white, heterosexual male. But the numbers were better for everyone -- even people who were stuck in the closet or fighting harassment at work.
 
I'm not saying there aren't changes or hard times. It would suck to be a minority or female in 1962.

The ONLY thing I'm talking about is the big-picture economic outlook in 1962 (the grandfather entering the workforce) and 2023 (the grandchild entering the workforce).

The grandfather graduated debt free, could obtain a mortgage with almost no down payment, and earned half the value of his house each year.

The grandchild can't even imagine those things once being true -- he or she graduates with six figures of debt, and a college loan which cannot be erased even with bankruptcy. There are no "starter" homes any more. And salaries average $75K with an average house being a bit more than $400K.

Choose one: 1962 or 2023. I'll choose 1962 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 1962 had its own problems -- particularly for anyone who wasn't a white, heterosexual male. But the numbers were better for everyone -- even people who were stuck in the closet or fighting harassment at work.
And the ONLY thing I am saying is that you can't just look at 1962. What about 1942, 1932 and 1902. You brought up the generation aspect so look at them all.
 
And the ONLY thing I am saying is that you can't just look at 1962. What about 1942, 1932 and 1902. You brought up the generation aspect so look at them all.

The only ones who are currently suffering are the kids who recently entered the workforce. I'm not particularly worried about the deceased.
 
The only ones who are currently suffering are the kids who recently entered the workforce. I'm not particularly worried about the deceased.
No need to worry.
 
I can't stand living in a society where so many people are barely scraping by. I much prefer living in a society where people are either happy or content.

"I've got mine, Jack," is a lousy way of living.
I don't know many people who say "I've got mine, Jack". Either way, worrying about it won't help.
 
And the ONLY thing I am saying is that you can't just look at 1962. What about 1942, 1932 and 1902. You brought up the generation aspect so look at them all.


It's so easy to look back as it is actually now history in the books. Looking currently or forward always remains a challenge.............




.
 
1962 or 2023? As a person who graduated in 1980, with 18 percent inflation and then 18% mortgage rates, I'm not certain I had it much better than those in 2023.

2023 has a higher standard of living than 1962. Much higher. I say that in objective terms. Look at what you wouldn't have in 1962.
Cell phones - smart and otherwise.
Computers - unless you were a big company.
Ability to time shift (or store) video entertainment.
Most of the modern pharmacopia.
Cars that last 10+ years with minimal maintenance.
Cheap air travel.
Free long distance phone calling.
Printers.
Copy machines - if you weren't a big business (anybody remember mimeographs?)
Shall I go on?
 
It's so easy to look back as it is actually now history in the books. Looking currently or forward always remains a challenge.............




.
Mistakes often repeat themselves.
 
1962 or 2023? As a person who graduated in 1980, with 18 percent inflation and then 18% mortgage rates, I'm not certain I had it much better than those in 2023.

2023 has a higher standard of living than 1962. Much higher. I say that in objective terms. Look at what you wouldn't have in 1962.
Cell phones - smart and otherwise.
Computers - unless you were a big company.
Ability to time shift (or store) video entertainment.
Most of the modern pharmacopia.
Cars that last 10+ years with minimal maintenance.
Cheap air travel.
Free long distance phone calling.
Printers.
Copy machines - if you weren't a big business (anybody remember mimeographs?)
Shall I go on?

Graduating debt free and going into the work force where you could buy your first house the first year you worked? And then that house appreciates by 7.5% annually for 50 years? Now worth $412K? Sign me up.

Again, I'll take that every single time compared to 2023's numbers. Furthermore -- who cares about the internet or laser printers if you're one paycheck away from homelessness?

Make the choice: 1962 with zero debt, making the average $6K salary with the average $12K house. Or 2023 with $120K in student loan debt, making the average $75K salary with the average $412K house. Choose one or the other.

I'm taking 1962 every time. And best of all, the music on the radio is absolutely superior compated to 2023. I'd be able to see roughly half of my favorite jazz acts. I'd live in New York. Buy a brownstone near the Greenwich Village jazz clubs -- which today would be worth a gazillion dollars. Golden age of air travel. Just being a US citizen means international cachet. Even if I didn't know exactly what stocks to buy, my buying strategy would mean I'd end up with blue-chips which today would also be worth a gazillion dollars.

And since I don't smoke, I'm not worried about 1960s medical problems. Worst case scenario, those rear their head in the 1990s -- and medicine is still pretty good.

Being born in 1950 was like being born on third base -- a bunch of those people are crowing about hitting a triple.
 
Ugh. My bad. I graduated my straw man at 12 instead of 22. Long day.

The numbers work out even better -- born in 1950, graduated in 1972: $11K salary (four years removed from 1968 -- the best year in history to be a wage earner in any country at any time). Average house is $27K. This is at the tail end of America's golden economic age. Anyone who can't make these numbers work can't make any numbers work.

I stand by my points -- the numbers were so much easier 50 years ago. Anyone could make these numbers work. I'm old enough to have seen this first hand -- but young enough that this wasn't my economic reality. And when I see what kids coming up today face, the only word for that is "cruel."
 
DW is 2 yrs older than me with high health care $$. She will likely retire in the next 2 years. My main concern is the cost of health care. So I will work until at least 67 FRA. If at 67 I am still in good shape and job happy I will consider pushing retirement to 70. Either way I will try to defer SS until 70 to max out the payments.
 
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