Retirement Advice From Those Who Learned the Hard Way

[1Melanie]

Retirement is Hell for extroverts and Heaven for introverts. . . .

I’m somewhere in between. I can spend lots of time alone. Quilting along with embroidery is a hobby I took up a few years before retirement and lots of time is spent on projects. Crossword puzzles and interlocking puzzles are within reach at all times, even on vacation. During the year, there’s always a project to be done in the yard. Unless I’m in the middle of a quilting project, I jump around a lot between these things. Occasionally, I make myself call friends and family and try to get together for lunch. I keep a clean house and have a routine. I often wonder when I found time to do it all when I was working.

 

[ScoopKona]

Sure there are always anecdotal exceptions that everyone can point to - but it's hard to argue with the macroeconomics in play here.

Oh, it's quiet easy to argue about it -- as long as they don't care about how shaky the foundation of their position is.

The worst part of this -- the part we're not feeling yet -- is that this will absolutely calcify social structure. The children of the wealthy parents/grandparents will inherit the wealth. And the children of the unlucky and financially strapped will get nothing (or even have to pay for their parents final years/care). I know many people in this position right now -- taking care of an elderly parent because there aren't any better options.

Like I've said before, I'm old enough to be the beneficiary of the good economic numbers. But also young enough to watch them crumble into dust as I hit all the various lifetime checkpoints and milestones. "I did it. But now it can't be done -- not unless you picked your parents well."

 

[HitchHiker71]

When I visit my school and talk to the students today (my wife attended the same school and she just visited), I don't tell them "I graduated debt free and so should you! Just bootstrap harder!"

Why? It's ridiculous. The numbers don't work. It's stupid to expect a student to carry a full course load and work 50-hour weeks in addition. That doesn't leave any time for schoolwork, or sleep -- I know because I've done it. I took the only job which would allow me to do course work on the job. So I was a night security guard. I'd take a four hour nap before classes and arrive looking like death-warmed-over. It was a brutal year. I also sold food out of my dorm room on weekends (dorm food sucked). Tell them about the days when a student actually could work their way through, and it's like teaching an ancient history course. It's hard for them to wrap their heads around the concept of graduating debt free without a full scholarship or the military being involved.

As for the car -- I'd have a Beetle. I know this because that's what I had then, too. Cheap and easy to fix. The worst problem could be solved in a day with a few hundred dollars and basic tools. Of course, they always seemed to break at the worst possible time.

My youngest son is almost finished college. He will graduate with about 30k in student loan debt after taking only the federal stafford loans each year (roughly 7,500 per year over four years). We made all three of our kids take their stafford loans and paid the difference in college expenses. Our daughter had a 75% college tuition scholarship (she was her high school salutatorian) and graduated in three years flat (same as her mom), so we paid the balance of her college tuition and her room and board with a 529 college savings account, and her grandparents (now deceased) paid her student loans off when she graduated (they also bought her a new car when she was 17 - lucky her). Our eldest son has about 25k left in student debt still. Our two sons always worked during college. Our eldest son worked part time during school and worked as many hours as he could otherwise. My youngest son actually worked full time and went to school full time for the first 2.5 years of college but got burned out after literally not having a day off for 2.5 years - then took six months off and then went back to work full time and going to college full time. He is in a professional pilot program and will hopefully finish up his flight school in December 2023 if all goes as planned. He worked at the local airport for Atlantic Aviation for the first 2.5 years and now works for another aviation company at that same airport. As you said, it's not easy doing both - but he's finally done all of his college coursework and now just has flight school to finish up since he experienced flight school delays due to the pandemic - so he's really working full time and going to college part time now (flight school is part of the college program so he's technically still in college until he completes the flight school curriculum portion). He won't be debt free but he could pay off half of his student debt today if he drained his savings completely. He's better off than most students these days without a doubt. He drives a 2013 Honda Accord sedan that we handed down to him in 2020, it's got almost 200k miles on it now - we're hoping it'll last him for another year or so at least.

 

[rapmarks]

Oh, it's quiet easy to argue about it -- as long as they don't care about how shaky the foundation of their position is.

The worst part of this -- the part we're not feeling yet -- is that this will absolutely calcify social structure. The children of the wealthy parents/grandparents will inherit the wealth. And the children of the unlucky and financially strapped will get nothing (or even have to pay for their parents final years/care). I know many people in this position right now -- taking care of an elderly parent because there aren't any better options.

Like I've said before, I'm old enough to be the beneficiary of the good economic numbers. But also young enough to watch them crumble into dust as I hit all the various lifetime checkpoints and milestones. "I did it. But now it can't be done -- not unless you picked your parents well."

Totally true. We were able to put our children through college and grad school debt free. We have funds for our grandchildren for college. But lots of retirees don’t have funds for themselves, let alone grandchildren
Read something interesting, many states have laws in place making children support aging parents financially if they are unable to do it themselves

 

[ScoopKona]

My youngest son actually worked full time and went to school full time for the first 2.5 years of college but got burned out after literally not having a day off for 2.5 years - then took six months off and then went back to work full time and going to college full time.

I could only handle one year of that. And at the end of that year, I had my degree. And there was no point taking graduate courses -- it was financially unattainable unless I could find a company willing to foot the bill. And after that year, I was done with school. I didn't want to see another book for awhile. So I went to work, saved up some money and then took a couple years off and backpacked the world. That's another thing that kids today will never experience unless they picked their parents well.

Read something interesting, many states have laws in place making children support aging parents financially if they are unable to do it themselves

Of course they do. I doubt I'll be surprised which states, either. Apparently our appetite for screwing over our children and grandchildren hasn't yet been sated.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I really only care about the economic numbers -- how much does a house cost? How much does a college degree cost? What are wages?

You're acting as if there was absolutely nothing to do in 1972, lacking smart phones and internet access.

Let's just take university as an example:

An English major wants to attend my school. If this student attends today, it will cost between $150-250K for four years. Let's go with the lowest possible number. Luckily for this student, minimum wage was increased to $15/hr this year. (I'm going to give this student the full fifteen. Not the $11.61 after taxes for the typical starving student. But I'm also not giving this student any Pell grants or scholarships. Just one of the unlucky students who's family was just wealthy enough not to qualify for anything. But too poor to pay for their child's tuition.)

So it will take 10,000 hours of labor to graduate debt free. That translates to working 48 hours a week, plus going to school full time.

Same school with 1972 numbers.

Tuition, room, board and books for the exact same English degree equals $4,200 and the minimum wage was $1.85 That means 2,270 hours to pay for an education, which is just under 11 hours a week. A student could work summers and pay for school. A student could work summers, attend summer class, and be out in three.

Which would you choose?

And now compare the average price of a house with salaries. Same thing. Here comes, "But VIETNAM!" Great. Attend school longer. At least they could afford to.

Scoop. like everything else in life, there is a soft underbelly. Both when I went to school and today. 2 years community college while living at home, then transferring? That would cut say $40K out of the total. There are other ways to scrimp, as well. At the schools I attended (2 years CC, 3 years uni - STEM degree); the current cost would be $80-$90K. But it was that high because there was no equivalent school in my town to what I went to. There now is, so if I lived at home for those years, going to that school, The cost would be down to $70k for all 5 years. This is current prices (I looked them up right now). But I wouldn't have a degree from a fancy university. At minimum wage, summer jobs would earn $6 a summer, or $30K for the period, leaving $40-50K uncovered, or about $8-10 K a year. If you worked 10 hours a week during the other 9 months that would be $4300 a year more $21K, reducing the amount owing to down to $20-30K. Even with this a debt, it's doable. I was lucky, I work at 1 1/2 time minimum wage and my parents picked up the 8K or so for the last 3 years.

 

[rapmarks]

Lol remembering a conversation in grade school. My cousin transferred schools and took 4 1/2 years to finish school. Girl in my class asked if he was retarded fir taking so long.

 

[ScoopKona]

Scoop. like everything else in life, there is a soft underbelly. Both when I went to school and today. 2 years community college while living at home, then transferring? That would cut say $40K out of the total. There are other ways to scrimp, as well. At the schools I attended (2 years CC, 3 years uni - STEM degree); the current cost would be $80-$90K. But it was that high because there was no equivalent school in my town to what I went to. There now is, so if I lived at home for those years, going to that school, The cost would be down to $70k for all 5 years. This is current prices (I looked them up right now). But I wouldn't have a degree from a fancy university. At minimum wage, summer jobs would earn $6 a summer, or $30K for the period, leaving $40-50K uncovered, or about $8-10 K a year. If you worked 10 hours a week during the other 9 months that would be $4300 a year more $21K, reducing the amount owing to down to $20-30K. Even with this a debt, it's doable. I was lucky, I work at 1 1/2 time minimum wage and my parents picked up the 8K or so for the last 3 years.

You are utterly ignoring the relationship between wages, cost and purchasing power over the past 60 years. Read (and re-read) the graph @HitchHiker71 posted up there until my only point in this entire thread becomes clear. You had it easy. You PERSONALLY may not have had it easy. But the numbers don't lie. You (anyone starting out in that year compared to this year) had it easy.

EDIT -- And why should kids today have to start off in Community College, and then transfer to a better school? University was three of the most fun years of my life. And even the last year, which was brutal from all the work, was still fun. I enjoyed my time at school immensely. That experience made me a better person. I got to enjoy those four years. Why shouldn't a kid today be able to do the same? "Sorry, next time pick your parents better" is cruel.

College used to be an option anyone could achieve -- if they could get in. If they couldn't afford it themselves; if their parents couldn't pay; if there wasn't a scholarship in the cards; if they couldn't throw touchdowns; they could still work their way through. That cannot be done today. Any student who wants a degree either has to have one of the advantages (wealthy parents, a touchdown-throwing-arm, an academic scholarship) -- or either goes into debt or must serve in the military for the GI bill. And just like college isn't for everyone, the military certainly isn't for everyone.

"I got mine but you can't have it yourself" is a lousy way to treat children and grandchildren.

 

[HitchHiker71]

You are utterly ignoring the relationship between wages, cost and purchasing power over the past 60 years. Read (and re-read) the graph @HitchHiker71 posted up there until my only point in this entire thread becomes clear. You had it easy. You PERSONALLY may not have had it easy. But the numbers don't lie. You (anyone starting out in that year compared to this year) had it easy.

That really is something that cannot be ignored - price inflation without corresponding wage inflation - along with increasing prices in core assets also outpacing inflation (such as real estate for example), make for quite a difficult and challenging scenario for young adults. My eldest son is currently renting one of my rental properties, a luxury townhome that we lived in from 1996-2008 and still own as a rental property. We charge him and his roommate $1800/month at present. I have not increased the rent on them since they moved into this property three years ago now. I could likely easily charge $2200-2300 if not $2500/month for this property given how much rent prices have increases over those three years. That's $900/month for each of them, plus around $250/month for utilities total. They also have car payments, student loan payments, etc. to make. Both are having difficulty saving anything into their retirement accounts beyond the minimum amount to capture their 401k matches and still make ends meet. My son currently makes around $70k/year and his roommate makes around $85k/year. Granted, he is only 26 years old, but if I compare myself at his age, I had already bought the townhome he's renting from me in 1996 - and two years before that had bought a condo in 1994 as our first home ownership experience. I bought the condo for around $65k and the townhome for around $132k. The condo is worth around $200k now and the townhome is currently valued well over $300k. Wages haven't increased at all in that time period in comparison. My son couldn't buy either property from me in comparison - and he is three years older than when I bought our condo and a year older than when I bought the townhome they are currently renting from us. I made around $20k/year in 1994, and around $35k in 1996 (my wife worked as well - so our total income was around $40k/year in 1994 and around $65k in 1996). Now factor in much higher price inflation as of two years ago - without corresponding wage increases. It's getting worse not better. I was able to buy a property in 1994 at less than 2x our family income, and again in 1996 at almost exactly 2x our total income, without too much trouble. My son at $70k alone cannot afford to buy the townhome they're renting from us that is currently worth around $325k at present - at 4-5x his income level in comparison. Even if he had a spouse making another $50k, at $120k total income, that's still almost 3x - and with today's much higher home loan rates - the payments are not manageable - this is why there's more and more data showing that the younger generations are being priced out as first time buyers - there aren't affordable homes available in most markets where younger generations want to live. Sure they can go out into the boonies and find something if their career supports remote work, and some younger folks are doing just that, but it doesn't work for everyone for various legitimate reasons.

 

[ScoopKona]

That really is something that cannot be ignored

Not for want of trying, though. ;-)

That's the other plank in my platform -- housing prices compared to wages then vs. now. I truly don't give two [excrements] about what Charlie Munger has to say on the subject. He clearly is wearing the same blinders most of the rest of his generation cheerfully dons every time economics is discussed.

Starter houses were a thing back then. No starter houses are being built today. And the ones they built in the 1950s-70s are selling for $300K and up, depending on the area. A "starter house" in Encinitas is selling for nearly a million today.

First, strap a kid down with six figures of student loan debt. Then, make the kid rent at half his or her paycheck. Every time a down-payment milestone is reached, move the goal posts. And then, because kicking people when they're down is fun, sneer at them as being "lazy and entitled" if they bring up the economic reality between then and now.

 

[HitchHiker71]

EDIT -- And why should kids today have to start off in Community College, and then transfer to a better school? University was three of the most fun years of my life. And even the last year, which was brutal from all the work, was still fun. I enjoyed my time at school immensely. That experience made me a better person. I got to enjoy those four years. Why shouldn't a kid today be able to do the same? "Sorry, next time pick your parents better" is cruel.

College used to be an option anyone could achieve -- if they could get in. If they couldn't afford it themselves; if their parents couldn't pay; if there wasn't a scholarship in the cards; if they couldn't throw touchdowns; they could still work their way through. That cannot be done today. Any student who wants a degree either has to have one of the advantages (wealthy parents, a touchdown-throwing-arm, an academic scholarship) -- or either goes into debt or must serve in the military for the GI bill. And just like college isn't for everyone, the military certainly isn't for everyone.

"I got mine but you can't have it yourself" is a lousy way to treat children and grandchildren.

Both of my sons forewent living on campus due to the added costs. Room and board typically more than doubles overall costs at many colleges these days. Our sons chose to live at home instead. I felt bad for them in some ways, as college is just as much about the on-campus life experience as anything else, but we couldn't have paid their room and board expenses so it would have meant taking on a lot more student loans - which just didn't make sense at the end of the day for either of them - especially considering how much they both worked during college just to make ends meet.

 

[elaine]

I agree that the wealth disparity will increase dramatically. For those who have help with college to buy a home, they have a decent potential to increase wealth-assuming No bubble purchases. I see it with my 20-30s kids now.

 

[bizaro86]

I certainly agree the disparity between the haves and have-nots is going to get wider as we go down the generations. Since I have essentially no political power, all I can really do is try to make sure my kids end up on the "have" side of that line...

Although I do think there are things people can do to improve their lot. IMO the biggest one is car payments. They are an absolute money-suck. My wife and I had only a single vehicle between the two of us until we had kids. The 7-8 years of no capital cost, insurance, maintenance etc in our twenties, even when deducting what I spent commuting by transit, is a really significant amount of money if you compound it until age 65. Vehicles are extremely reliable now - buying used, keeping until the vehicle hits 15 years, etc can make a huge financial difference. Maybe not as fun as the story upthread of a new Escalade leased every 2 years, but way better in the long run.

 

[WinniWoman]

Your numbers must be very regional. We paid $35000 in 1972 for a very small house and not in a good neighborhood I made that salary in one of the highest paying school districts in Illinois with a masters degree and many years of teaching experience and my husband actually made less with even more experience.

Our first house in 1977- handyman special-$25,000. I was making $2.00 per hour. Full time. Not sure what my husband was making but he was an auto mechanic in the Bronx and having to commute from Orange County. I know he didn’t make too much money and he carried credit card balances. I had to commute to Rockland County. So we had high gas bills and wear and tear on our cars. He had an Oldsmobile beater car and I had a new Chevy Chevette. I was 21 and he was 23.

Car loan and I had a $45 per month college loan. Eventually we’d take out a home improvement loan with Sears for a kitchen and subsequently a second mortgage to add on rooms years later.

Plus we began to put money into the house to fix it up and spent 10 years doing so because we weren’t big earners. We did save money, though. I remember opening an IRA for $50 per month. My first experience with investing.

Today just the land alone would be worth at least $100,000 in the area that first house was in.

 

[RENTER]

1972 vs today? I hear the whining comparing the cost of education today vs 1972 and adjusting it for today's inflation numbers. They are correct, today's generation has it harder. But those 1972 students did not live in Club Med while at college. Compare the college food court in 1972 to a college food court today. Those in 1972 had mud for coffee and not Starbucks in their student center.

Now let's compare investment products. In 1972, you had to be rich to invest. In 1972, there were no mutual funds until Vanguard came along with the Index 500 in 1976. Now there are ETF's, commission free trades, fractional sharing, ETF's and mutual funds that short the market. You can buy 3 month and 6-month Treasury Bill ETF's. The same with inflation bonds. you have to be a complete moron to lose in today's market because you did not diversify.

Now let's talk about real estate. My parents bought their home in the 50's for $10,000. People drool when they say that it is worth $400,000 today. In the stock market using all those products I mentioned above, it would be worth $946,000 today. Now if I adjust that $10,000 by adding $1200 a year to it for the insurance, taxes and maintenance they paid, it would be worth 2.5 million. Now we all know that they put more then $1200 a year into that house.

Oh, by the way the property tax on the house today is $9,000.

Back then for most people, the only way to make money on real estate is to buy a house, fix it up, be a landlord and pray you did not get dirtbags for tenants. One reason I bought timeshares. I did not want to buy a vacation home and rent it out to others to help pay for it or have it empty during the off season and squatters and drug dealers move in.

Today you can buy REITS that pay over 6% in dividends. REITS are real estate trusts, and you can buy different type of REITS such as those who invest in office buildings. medical offices, shopping centers, apartment buildings, storage units, warehouses, and cell phone towers.

So I for one do not feel sorry for this younger generation. They have opportunities that I never had and I am to old and tired to learn how to take full advantage. I still use a flip phone and AOL mail. But that is all I need. They can choose to be babies and whine how hard they have it or take advantage of those opportunities.

Also let's not forget that they are receiving inheritances from the older generation they are whining had it easy. That is why I believe the Fed's raising interest rates is not working. Yes I know there is a lag time but to many are receiving large inheritances and spending it away in a couple of years.

I am a strong believer that the younger generation lives in la la land when it comes to finances and that their parents should put it in a trust fund with a monthly allowance until they receive social security.

There was a recent story where 4 siblings each received 2 million. Three of them spent theirs and the 4th invested his. The three spenders are demanding he give them some of his since he was successful investing his.

 

[schaef9]

I really only care about the economic numbers -- how much does a house cost? How much does a college degree cost? What are wages?

You're acting as if there was absolutely nothing to do in 1972, lacking smart phones and internet access.

Let's just take university as an example:

An English major wants to attend my school. If this student attends today, it will cost between $150-250K for four years. Let's go with the lowest possible number. Luckily for this student, minimum wage was increased to $15/hr this year. (I'm going to give this student the full fifteen. Not the $11.61 after taxes for the typical starving student. But I'm also not giving this student any Pell grants or scholarships. Just one of the unlucky students who's family was just wealthy enough not to qualify for anything. But too poor to pay for their child's tuition.)

So it will take 10,000 hours of labor to graduate debt free. That translates to working 48 hours a week, plus going to school full time.

Same school with 1972 numbers.

Tuition, room, board and books for the exact same English degree equals $4,200 and the minimum wage was $1.85 That means 2,270 hours to pay for an education, which is just under 11 hours a week. A student could work summers and pay for school. A student could work summers, attend summer class, and be out in three.

Which would you choose?

And now compare the average price of a house with salaries. Same thing. Here comes, "But VIETNAM!" Great. Attend school longer. At least they could afford to.

I believe that any college would be hard-pressed to justify the cost of college today. In fact, if colleges were required to bankroll tuition loans we would not see any feel-good degrees that have no earning potential offered at all.

 

[ScoopKona]

I am a strong believer that the younger generation lives in la la land when it comes to finances and that their parents should put it in a trust fund with a monthly allowance until they receive social security.

I agree that most people live in financial la-la land. That isn't just young people. It's all people. And they've been like that throughout history.

Economics sets the curve. An individual then reaches his or her level on that curve. Some people are going to do well regardless of what economy you plop them into. Others are going to fail no matter what economy they find themselves in. Average people behave in average ways -- that is why the curve matters.

But there's no arguing with numbers. Purchasing power has plummeted in the past 40 years, and all the bootstrapping in the world doesn't fix that. Costs on the big-deal items (an education and property) have skyrocketed above inflation. No amount of "lazy entitled kids" changes that, either. Even the kids who don't understand the economics behind it understand that they are being screwed over in away that previous generations were not.

(Only a handful have any living relatives from the Depression era.) And that number decreases every single day. Soon it will be zero. So we can stop with the Boomers in the comparison. If you want to stretch and include the Silents, that's fine. Their numbers were just as good. The best year to be a wage earner, any country, any point in history was "America, 1968." Nothing changes that fact, either.)

 

[ScoopKona]

I believe that any college would be hard-pressed to justify the cost of college today. In fact, if colleges were required to bankroll tuition loans we would not see any feel-good degrees that have no earning potential offered at all.

You'll never convince me of this. Because I want to live in a society which includes Latin majors, dance instructors, and art historians. Why should future generations be denied the chance of living in such a society? These fields don't pay much -- but they make everyone's life better. Even those who actively despise culture, whether they know it or not.

Not all that long ago, people obtained an education, and then they went off in a specialized direction for a career. This entire "a diploma should come with an immediate paycheck" is a recent development. And a bad one.

The best thing I ever did was obtain my first degree. That's the one that mattered. It's the one that opened all the doors throughout life. And it's still working for me, all the time -- making life interesting and worth living now that finances are on autopilot. You'll never hear me say "I don't have anything to do now that I'm retired." University sorted that out decades ago.

 

[am1]

Lol remembering a conversation in grade school. My cousin transferred schools and took 4 1/2 years to finish school. Girl in my class asked if he was retarded fir taking so long.

Thats not a word to use anymore. Must really be out of touch.

 

[easyrider]

Our first house in 1977- handyman special-$25,000. I was making $2.00 per hour. Full time. Not sure what my husband was making but he was an auto mechanic in the Bronx and having to commute from Orange County. I know he didn’t make too much money and he carried credit card balances. I had to commute to Rockland County. So we had high gas bills and wear and tear on our cars. He had an Oldsmobile beater car and I had a new Chevy Chevette. I was 21 and he was 23.

Car loan and I had a $45 per month college loan. Eventually we’d take out a home improvement loan with Sears for a kitchen and subsequently a second mortgage to add on rooms years later.

Plus we began to put money into the house to fix it up and spent 10 years doing so because we weren’t big earners. We did save money, though. I remember opening an IRA for $50 per month. My first experience with investing.

Today just the land alone would be worth at least $100,000 in the area that first house was in.

This was close to our timeline regarding purchasing our first house. We still own it as a rental. We flipped the mortgage on that house to buy more property and would always pay that first house off and flip again. It was a $25,000 property back then and today it is close to a $300,000 property. What's interesting is that in another 45 or so years following the same trajectory that house will likely be worth over 3 million.

Bill

 

[rapmarks]

Thats not a word to use anymore. Must really be out of touch.

It was in the fifties. Preceded college being a five to seven year plan. She always referred to my aunt as a cripple, she limped from polio as an infant. Needless to say, I didn’t like this person.

 

[DrQ]

It was in the fifties. Preceded college being a five to seven year plan. She always referred to my aunt as a cripple, she limped from polio as an infant. Needless to say, I didn’t like this person.

I took the ten year engineering degree plan. Working and taking the minimum hours to stay a full time student and qualify for married student housing and DW worked for the university.

 

[1Melanie]

There is definitely a misconception about what type and level of benefits are provided by the US government. I started FT work in 1995, and have been putting away personal retirement savings with the assumption that by the time I get there, the government will provide $0.

That’s how we did all our retirement planning. Social security was a windfall. The first time I got a payment I was afraid to spend it lest the IRS or some other government type came to my door to demand repayment! With talk of the fund drying up by 2030 (I think) I’m glad we have a backup plan. Applying for Medicaid will be over my dead body because, fortunately, we planned for long term care and the inevitable too!

 

[1Melanie]

For those of you with a healthy spouse that you can travel with, or just do things together, or talk to, count your blessings. That changes the whole retirement picture, regardless of how much money you have.

So true. I’m not sure I would do as much traveling if I didn’t have my spouse with me. Even if I could compel a child or grandchild to go with me, there’s no guarantees they would want to be dragged thru a museum or ruins just because I like doing that. I’d probably end up on tours with all the other blue haired ladies.

 

[dago]

So true. I’m not sure I would do as much traveling if I didn’t have my spouse with me. Even if I could compel a child or grandchild to go with me, there’s no guarantees they would want to be dragged thru a museum or ruins just because I like doing that. I’d probably end up on tours with all the other blue haired ladies.

True, indeed. I just took a short trip to Gettysburg by myself. Although I enjoyed getting away, it was NOT quite the same without my spouse.