{UNLOCKED] Wyndham notice RE commercial use

[Jan M.]

I am under the impression that owners must turn over their log-in credentials to the points managers. If that is true, the points managers could and would change the email contact to their email address and receive the code via email.

If I were a points manager, that is how I would run my business and that is what would be in my contract with those for whom I would manage their account.

Wyndham recently converted WorldMark to MFA. I have had to use a code only once -- when the website system changed months and months ago.

There's a Tugger who was blocked from adding guest names on their Wyndham account and suspended from RCI. He was doing third party rentals and used his email and phone number on the RCI guest confirmations. I wondered if the owners whose stays he rented to other people got a warning or suspension too.

Wyndham is tracking things and the same email and/or phone number on multiple accounts will flag those accounts.

From what I've observed owners who use point managers tend to be oblivious to what's going on with Wyndham. It's a rude awakening when they get their letter.

If this change also hurts the point managers I'm sure Wyndham will count that as a win. However we've heard of multiple incidents of someone accessing accounts that have little activity and making reservations that were rented out unbeknownst to the owners. Wyndham handled it very promptly and aggressively when it was discovered and reported to them. Clearly greater account security is warranted.

 

[CO skier]

That is not how Koala works for example. Their system doesn’t require any owner to give their login credentials. Koala simply serves as a broker between the seller and the buyer for requested vacations. I know a few other pints managers who take the same approach that Koala does just using private FB groups to facilitate the process instead of a website. Having to hand over creds, while popular in the past, has become an outdated concept nowadays.

Nevertheless, the point is the same -- multi-factor authentication is probably not intended as and probably will not be a deterrent to mega-businesses.

 

[ronparise]

[

There are a handful of people on TUG who probably quit their jobs and made enough to support themselves by doing this. At the expense of other owners.

how is it that one owner making reservations with their points, is done at the expense of other owners.


Im sitting in a Wyndham timeshare now, with both electricity and running water (my house has neither today, thanks to Hurricane Ian) A wyndham timeshare owner made that reservation, with their points and named me as their guest.

What kind of logic brings you to the conclusion that this was done at your expense?. . I dont understand it, but just to be safe...Thank you. and Let me know what I owe you.

 

[jules54]

I think the main thing is that on Facebook there's usually an easy trail between the owner, their real name, and the dates and location they're renting out, and often the guest's real name as well. On Koala that would all be obscured. So not that Wyndham condones Koala over any other means of offering rentals, but that there's an opacity with Koala that Wyndham seems not to have bothered to crack at this point.

Must be a pretty easy trail from TUG and EBay also.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Anyone who wants to can write to the Florida AG and tell them what they want to tell them about promises made and broken.

We are moving on from Wyndham. It's just far more worry than I can do in my old age. My daughter-in-law just asked me about getting Glacier Canyon in January for her best friend and her kids. I had to tell her I cannot get anything because I cannot add guests. They can rent a hotel room.

 

[paxsarah]

Must be a pretty easy trail from TUG and EBay also.

I mean, my own name is not that hard to track down, and there are a handful of people here whose real names I know because they’re in the Facebook groups, but a TUG or especially an eBay screen name is definitely a rockier trail to follow.

 

[chapjim]

I mean, my own name is not that hard to track down, and there are a handful of people here whose real names I know because they’re in the Facebook groups, but a TUG or especially an eBay screen name is definitely a rockier trail to follow.

I am/was chapjim on every listing site except RedWeek.com and I'm Jim C. there. I did not try to do anything to make tracking difficult. Didn't think there was a reason to and still don't. My use of guest confirmations told all the story that needed to be told.

 

[bnoble]

I always use some obvious variant of my real name on the Interwebs. Unless someone has extraordinarily good operational security, they are probably incapable of being anonymous if someone is interested in finding them.

I know what good opsec looks like, and I also know that I don't have it.

 

[paxsarah]

I know what good opsec looks like, and I also know that I don't have it.

No, but if you have John Realname posting rentals in a FB group, and John1962 posting rentals on Tug or eBay, I've got a pretty good idea who Wyndham's going to go after first before they take the time to connect the dots to find the other one. It doesn't have to be good opsec in this situation, just obscured enough for Wyndham not to bother.

 

[CO skier]

how is it that one owner making reservations with their points, is done at the expense of other owners.


Im sitting in a Wyndham timeshare now, with both electricity and running water (my house has neither today, thanks to Hurricane Ian) A wyndham timeshare owner made that reservation, with their points and named me as their guest.

What kind of logic brings you to the conclusion that this was done at your expense?. . I dont understand it,

There is an obvious, logical difference between someone booking time in a premium resort/time at 13 months for a rental that is then no longer available for an owner to book, and someone booking " extreme leftovers" that are just sitting in inventory a couple weeks or less before arrival, like your hurricane example.

 

[RENTER]

Once again, I caught Wyndham sales agents telling people that they can pay for VIP by renting. Also found people renting from other owners. I mentioned this recently when I observed this in Myrtle Beach. Now again down in Florida. I am down here handling storm damage claims, and I am staying at one of the resorts. Once again, another renter came up to me and asked me if I was an owner. When I told him yes, he told me what the salesperson said about renting. I told him the salesperson was lying and I referred him to the debates here. I also discovered something that supports my theory that this is not about helping those who say they cannot find a vacation but that it is about renters taking business from Extra Holidays. I am not going to be able to stay in one place long because of lack of availability so I have to move around. I have been booking rooms at the Marriott Residence Inn and they want over $500 a night for a studio hotel room. I booked them for free with my hotel credit card points. But I can get a 2 bedroom at a Wyndham Resort for $100 a night which is the cost of my maintenance fees for those points. This is not because of the storm inflating prices because people need a place to stay. When I was renting, I was consistently charging less than the hotels. Now that Extra Holidays is eliminating the competition, I am sure they are betting on they can replace the extra money I was giving them. Since I filed for an extension, I just did my tax return before I left, and my profit went to them by the way of guest pass fees and points protection. I made enough to cover my maintenance fees and final payments on my loan.

 

[CO skier]

I also discovered something that supports my theory that this is not about helping those who say they cannot find a vacation but that it is about renters taking business from Extra Holidays.

A counterpoint to your theory is that Extra Holidays cannot rent time during Owner Priority Dates.

 

[comicbookman]

There is an obvious, logical difference between someone booking time in a premium resort/time at 13 months for a rental that is then no longer available for an owner to book, and someone booking " extreme leftovers" that are just sitting in inventory a couple weeks or less before arrival, like your hurricane example.

The difference is not obvious nor logical. The booking is made by an owner. they are the same.

 

[Rolltydr]

The difference is not obvious nor logical. The booking is made by an owner. they are the same.

No, they aren’t. One is against the rules because it can be commercial use by advertising and renting units to non-owners, thereby, preventing paying owners from using those units. The other is being humanitarian during a natural disaster. They aren’t even close to the same.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Once again, I caught Wyndham sales agents telling people that they can pay for VIP by renting. Also found people renting from other owners. I mentioned this recently when I observed this in Myrtle Beach. Now again down in Florida. I am down here handling storm damage claims, and I am staying at one of the resorts. Once again, another renter came up to me and asked me if I was an owner. When I told him yes, he told me what the salesperson said about renting. I told him the salesperson was lying and I referred him to the debates here. I also discovered something that supports my theory that this is not about helping those who say they cannot find a vacation but that it is about renters taking business from Extra Holidays. I am not going to be able to stay in one place long because of lack of availability so I have to move around. I have been booking rooms at the Marriott Residence Inn and they want over $500 a night for a studio hotel room. I booked them for free with my hotel credit card points. But I can get a 2 bedroom at a Wyndham Resort for $100 a night which is the cost of my maintenance fees for those points. This is not because of the storm inflating prices because people need a place to stay. When I was renting, I was consistently charging less than the hotels. Now that Extra Holidays is eliminating the competition, I am sure they are betting on they can replace the extra money I was giving them. Since I filed for an extension, I just did my tax return before I left, and my profit went to them by the way of guest pass fees and points protection. I made enough to cover my maintenance fees and final payments on my loan.

Write a letter to the FL Attorney General and tell them this, but use paragraphs, please. The rule is 3-7 sentences per paragraph. When you change subjects, start a new paragraph. This is tough for me to read. As a former English teacher, I want to take a red pen to these long-winded paragraphs.

Salespeople are supposedly not representing the interest of Wyndham and its owners. That is my understanding from talking to Wyndham. Wyndham says their salespeople do not have to stop lying to make a sale. They can lie all they want, as long as they sell.

I know who the author of lies is.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Once again, I caught Wyndham sales agents telling people that they can pay for VIP by renting. Also found people renting from other owners. I mentioned this recently when I observed this in Myrtle Beach. Now again down in Florida. I am down here handling storm damage claims, and I am staying at one of the resorts. Once again, another renter came up to me and asked me if I was an owner. When I told him yes, he told me what the salesperson said about renting. I told him the salesperson was lying and I referred him to the debates here. I also discovered something that supports my theory that this is not about helping those who say they cannot find a vacation but that it is about renters taking business from Extra Holidays. I am not going to be able to stay in one place long because of lack of availability so I have to move around. I have been booking rooms at the Marriott Residence Inn and they want over $500 a night for a studio hotel room. I booked them for free with my hotel credit card points. But I can get a 2 bedroom at a Wyndham Resort for $100 a night which is the cost of my maintenance fees for those points. This is not because of the storm inflating prices because people need a place to stay. When I was renting, I was consistently charging less than the hotels. Now that Extra Holidays is eliminating the competition, I am sure they are betting on they can replace the extra money I was giving them. Since I filed for an extension, I just did my tax return before I left, and my profit went to them by the way of guest pass fees and points protection. I made enough to cover my maintenance fees and final payments on my loan.

The thing that amazes me, or surprises or whatever the right word is, is that so many people seem to think it's okay for the sales organization to continue to run as they do. No integrity. And yet so many will say 'but you didn't read the contract'. I'm beyond expecting Wyndham to ever be honest or have any integrity. We'll always be hearing these crazy lies that the sales department is allowed to spew. I won't even comment on EH and all the rest, I'm in agreement with you, just not in me to beat that dead horse (or any of that herd) any more.

 

[chapjim]

A counterpoint to your theory is that Extra Holidays cannot rent time during Owner Priority Dates.

EH does not currently accept weeks from owners during OPDs but I can't think of anything that would keep Wyndham from renting on EH during OPDs if it chose to do so.

 

[HitchHiker71]

The thing that amazes me, or surprises or whatever the right word is, is that so many people seem to think it's okay for the sales organization to continue to run as they do. No integrity. And yet so many will say 'but you didn't read the contract'. I'm beyond expecting Wyndham to ever be honest or have any integrity. We'll always be hearing these crazy lies that the sales department is allowed to spew. I won't even comment on EH and all the rest, I'm in agreement with you, just not in me to beat that dead horse (or any of that herd) any more.

I don't think anyone believes the deceptive sales practices are OK. I think everyone, at least everyone here on TUG, is well aware of the cognitive dissonance that exists when it comes to deceptive timeshare sales practices. It's also worth pointing out that this issue is not unique to Wyndham. I've had many people tell me that Wyndham is no worse, and in some cases better, when compared to other entities such as Diamond, Westgate, etc. Wyndham is simply the biggest timeshare entity on the block - so we tend to see larger volumes of complaints in line with their larger market share. Many of the timeshare sales and marketing people cycle through the various timeshare entities over time. Perhaps someday we will see federal legislation that has a positive impact on tamping down on these types of deceptive sales practices - but I'm not going to hold my breath LOL.

EDIT: then again...perhaps there is hope? https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/f...-in-deceptive-sales-practices-lawsuit.344827/

 

[HitchHiker71]

EH does not currently accept weeks from owners during OPDs but I can't think of anything that would keep Wyndham from renting on EH during OPDs if it chose to do so.

When we consider that EH doesn't require the use of a GC when renting, technically beyond Wyndham simply choosing to honor not renting via EH during OPDs, there's nothing preventing them from doing so since the OPD centers around the use of GCs primarily.

 

[chapjim]

When we consider that EH doesn't require the use of a GC when renting, technically beyond Wyndham simply choosing to honor not renting via EH during OPDs, there's nothing preventing them from doing so since the OPD centers around the use of GCs primarily.

There's also nothing that precludes Wyndham from renting restricted weeks on other on-line sites (booking.com, expedia, etc.)

 

[ladawgfan]

I'd surmise that Wyndham probably has more rental volume than most other timeshare entities as a general rule - but that's just my sense of things based upon feedback I've seen from other timeshare owners posting here on TUG and on other forums that I moderate/admin. I don't have any hard data that proves this assertion to be clear.

So it's relative with Wyndham I think. We still see quite a few Wyndham rental postings on the FB groups for example. So while Wyndham is certainly targeting what they view as commercial renting activities - it's relative at the same time - at least on some level. From what I've observed, there does seem to be a link between advertising rentals and being identified as having engaged in commercial rentals. I would love to know, for example, if someone who only rents through points managers such as Koala - and has never advertised any rentals on any public forums - have actually been tagged and have received commercial use warnings from Wyndham.

I'm sure as @Jan M. mentioned that Wyndham is also watching other metrics such as applying GCs same day or the day before a reservation in an attempt to skirt the rules for priority blackout dates - but this is simply not going to be possible once the changes that have been announced are put in place to proactively prevent GCs from being used outright via the website.

Has anyone heard what the new rules regarding guest reservation usage are going to be. It sure would be nice for Wyndham to let owners know what is going to happen instead of waiting until the day of implementation as they have with past guest reservation changes!

 

[paxsarah]

Has anyone heard what the new rules regarding guest reservation usage are going to be. It sure would be nice for Wyndham to let owners know what is going to happen instead of waiting until the day of implementation as they have with past guest reservation changes!

The impression I get is that the rules will remain the same, the system will simply apply/enforce them automatically. And it’s implied that the list may become more user-friendly. If it’s all implemented properly.

 

[ronparise]

There is an obvious, logical difference between someone booking time in a premium resort/time at 13 months for a rental that is then no longer available for an owner to book, and someone booking " extreme leftovers" that are just sitting in inventory a couple weeks or less before arrival, like your hurricane example.

The question isnt whether the reservation was made at 13 months, or the day of check in. It’s was the reservation made at the expense of another owner;

either way the reservation was taken from available inventory. Same question, even if taken at 13 months, how is that “at the expense of another owner”

by the way, my wife and i are OK as is the house ,,, thanks for asking

 

[ronparise]

No, they aren’t. One is against the rules because it can be commercial use by advertising and renting units to non-owners, thereby, preventing paying owners from using those units. The other is being humanitarian during a natural disaster. They aren’t even close to the same.

The difference is not obvious nor logical. The booking is made by an owner. they are the same.

Boiled down to its essence they are exactly the sam

 

[Rolltydr]

Boiled down to its essence they are exactly the sam

I’m sorry about your house, Ron. I hope your power and water are back on soon so you can get back home. I hope you have no other damages.

Boiled down to it’s essence, I believe there is a big difference in a person doing something because it benefits them financially, or otherwise, as opposed to doing something that benefits someone else simply for the satisfaction of doing a good deed for someone.