[ 2021 ] Baby Boomer Retirements Causing Labor Shortage?

[Rolltydr]

OK, I find this very new and interesting news. I would have not thought this possible. Thanks for sharing this.

Most people in this country have no idea how many people live in these conditions. This is not uncommon, especially in Alabama and Mississippi. And it isn’t just in poor, rural areas. It also happens in poor, urban areas. That isn’t a coincidence. Is it a majority of the population? No. That’s the whole reason it continues to be allowed to happen.

 

[SHG]

That’s a common myth talking point that’s passed around and many people choose to believe rather than getting educated on the topic.

There’s actually 38million working poor people in America. Millions of people actually live on these poverty wages

A profile of the working poor, 2018

This report summarizes data on the working poor. The working poor are people who spent at least 27 weeks in the labor force(thatis, working or looking for work) but whose incomes still fell below the official poverty level.

www.bls.gov

I think you misunderstand what I am saying (and probably other people as well). This is not intended to be a political position nor a ideal that looks down on people or judges them. I do understand that there are many people who work at these jobs and attempt to live on these wages. I don't believe that this should be a standard that we define for people. We should should strive to educate, train, motivate and get people into full time higher paying jobs where they can make a living and raise a family. Not make the assertion that a part time job at a fast food restaurant should pay $30/hr so a part time employee can raise a family. I believe we should help people to achieve, but i also believe that people have a role/responsibility to work for this as well. Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[geekette]

I recall when I was having twins with a preK kid. For 3, I'd have had to bring in $50K just for after-tax daycare costs (with 5X/week work and 1.5 hr commute each way). DH (biz owner) and I dropped to PT and hired a nanny 2X/week. We had lower income, but much lower daycare. I was a creative solution that most do not have the ability to do. I cannot imagine getting 3 young babies/kids geared up and out the door everyday to daycare. And the cost is much more of the household budget now. A middle-income family would have a hard time. I'd likely have quit as well.

This is partly why many young folks are not having or are delaying having kids. It’s not only not affordable, but as you cite, readying tots for daycare daily is no easy feat.

 

[geekette]

I am not understanding your theory on how healthcare cost is helping people retire sooner. If you ever looked at the ACA cost, for anyone with any reasonable income, ACA cost is prohibitively high. It would not prompt a lot of people to pay that cost and retire, myself included. If your income is low enough to actually get ACA, you probably cant afford to retire. Not sure ACA is the cause here. What am I missing?

not missing a thing. My monthly cost would be 800 last I checked. That’s another mortgage payment. I am oldest GenX, sibs are boomers. I am semi retired, no insurance.

 

[Rolltydr]

I saw that 60 Minutes story on Sunday 12/19 and was absolutely shocked at the INEFFECTIVE Alabama Board of Health Department(s) for knowingly allowing this situation to persist year after year...... It's a situation just inviting diseases to spring up.

If any of us ran a pipe (on top of the soil) out into our yards to discharge our human waste then we would be arrested for unlawful sewage disposal.

Shame on the State for not getting it's act together and start making good decisions on behalf of their population. If folks can't afford septic systems then maybe it is time for communities to install sewer systems with some of that "Build Back Better" money.




.

That money is controlled and distributed by the state. The state is the reason the conditions exist in the first place. You know what the legislature voted to spend Covid money on? New prisons.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/01/poli...son-bills-signed-governor-kay-ivey/index.html

 

[SueDonJ]

I think you misunderstand what I am saying (and probably other people as well). This is not intended to be a political position nor a ideal that looks down on people or judges them. I do understand that there are many people who work at these jobs and attempt to live on these wages. I don't believe that this should be a standard that we define for people. We should should strive to educate, train, motivate and get people into full time higher paying jobs where they can make a living and raise a family. Not make the assertion that a part time job at a fast food restaurant should pay $30/hr so a part time employee can raise a family. I believe we should help people to achieve, but i also believe that people have a role/responsibility to work for this as well. Just my 2 cents worth...

But why shouldn't we instead strive to make it standard that of all the millions of jobs in the huge restaurant/food service industry, many should be full-time positions that pay a living wage and provide benefits that support raising a family? Service is a perfectly respectable job, and I'd bet all of us if asked for our favorite staff at our favorite restaurants would pick the longtime workers who've made a career of it over any of the college/high school kids who cycle through.

We, meaning the collective in the United States, consume more meals outside of our homes than what happens in any other country. Just among my small circle I'd say that 40% of the people I know cook their main meal of the day maybe two days a week, and I know three different couples who NEVER cook. The US is also known the world over for our restaurants serving gigantic meals that in some cases are enough to feed a family of four off of one plate, and among those acquaintances I mention none of them take home doggie bags because they're never home to eat them! The waste is astounding. Restaurant owners/menu planners could reduce their actual food costs by reducing the portion sizes and shift that expense to provide better pay/benefits for their service staff, and as long as the quality of the food doesn't suffer then the people who frequent restaurants most often won't change their restaurant habits.

It also doesn't make sense to me that owners can assume the staff will take in a certain amount of tips and so their pay schedules include that assumption. I think that when a member of the waitstaff is not paid that assumed amount by the customer, then the owner should be required to pay it.

I think we agree that fast food is a different animal and perhaps the frontline positions in those eateries are more appropriate for the part-timers and lower wages/benefits, but right now it seems to me that the entire restaurant industry is subject to the same "standards" as fast-food eateries, and that just doesn't make sense.

 

[geekette]

I don't question what you all are saying but answer me this. Why is there a labor shortage? Some companies here in Fort Worth are paying up to $20 per hour and there are still many companies having trouble finding help. My CCRC is paying sign-up and referral bonuses in addition to having increased employee's pay. We are particularly having trouble hiring kitchen and wait staff...

George

a lot of people died or remain debilitated from covid. Many people are choosing to bundle their larger family units, or what’s left, and someone has to watch the kids. Maybe it’s been a while since you were in the workforce, but absenteeism gets you fired. I had to write up people for being 5 minutes late. three Of those and I had to fire them.

there is also the possibility of trading up. I don’t ever want to work in a kitchen again. Some folks may have made it to nice clean office jobs.

 

[geekette]

I think you misunderstand what I am saying (and probably other people as well). This is not intended to be a political position nor a ideal that looks down on people or judges them. I do understand that there are many people who work at these jobs and attempt to live on these wages. I don't believe that this should be a standard that we define for people. We should should strive to educate, train, motivate and get people into full time higher paying jobs where they can make a living and raise a family. Not make the assertion that a part time job at a fast food restaurant should pay $30/hr so a part time employee can raise a family. I believe we should help people to achieve, but i also believe that people have a role/responsibility to work for this as well. Just my 2 cents worth...

Then who is going to manage the stores if not promoting from within? Further, not everyone aspires to a profession. Some just want jobs they can leave after shift and go live their lives. I don’t think one size fits all when it comes to what people want out of life. Teachers are critical to society yet they are not paid enuf nor get the respect they deserve. My daddy told me, if you are going to clean toilets for a living, make them sparkle, there is no shame in a hard days’ work. Do not look down on people that make choices that you wouldn’t. they have their reasons.


eta…. Some of us never wanted kids. Why do I need a profession for raising kids? If my expenses are low, and my job covers it, what is anyones beef with it? I could live on the beach at a primitive surf camp, work to feed myself, and spend most all my time on the waves. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Happiness has no universal definition. Making big bucks is not a goal that everyone shares. Weren’t the hippies the ones that refused to ‘sell out to The Man’? Living to work isn’t always a good thing. Corps will suck the life out of you and forget you are a human being. There are reasons I retired young, but wealthy was not among them. I can always make more money but I’ll never get back the evenings and weekends and holidays that my career took. People get to choose their own lives, and those of their families, over what other people decide Success should be. Live and let live, people get to choose their paths, where fate doesn’t choose for them.

 

[klpca]

My trendy, boomer husband retired earlier this year. He was just tired of the grind. Covid exposed the holes in our work/life balance. Everyone could suddenly see the time-cost of commuting and working in an environment of constant interruptions and meaningless meetings. I believe that it gave people time to reflect on whether or not it was worth it. A lot of folks voted with their feet. Some retired, and some chose jobs where they no longer had to deal with a rude and demanding public. I don't think that it should be a surprise that the public facing jobs have been hit particularly hard. Everyone want to be respected in the job that they do and no one deserves to be yelled at if they failed to serve your grande vanilla latte at exactly 140 degrees.

Healthcare and childcare costs have been awful for years. It is a shame that nothing has really improved. I got off of the full time career path a long time ago - and only because of the cost of childcare. After childcare (this was in the early 1990's) I was bringing home less than an extra $500 per month. Why even bother? I dropped down to part time and am still working the exact same position 30+ year later. Part of me hates that I got pigeon-holed, part of me loves the fact that I was home every day to pick up my kids and did scouts and coached soccer along the way. Life is full of trade offs and sometimes it takes a big disruption to see what the costs of your decisions are to your family and to your own health. (I understand that not everyone has that luxury - I am just speaking from my own personal perspective here).

 

[geekette]

Very old song, Take this job and shove it…. Most anyone that has ever held a job has thought this, and I have acted on it. Seems like there are a lot more Shove It people today. And why not, when ceos get fired and pocket millions yet middle class and lower has for decades needed a raise. I don’t need to spend my time helping a c suiter custom fit a yacht.

recently, McDs guy, harasser, etc, had to give back over one hundred million in severance. things are disastrously out of whack. The hoarding at the top is gross and I will not be party to it.

I also think many are gigging or starting their own business and plan to never again work for a major corp nor asshole boss. Life is too short for the daily grind to actually grind one down.

ugh, sorry. I have a lot to say about the nature of Work and some of life’s scenes replayed for me. I’m done, I’ll go seek therapy (box wine out of Dixie cup offgrid in the forest).

 

[Superchief]

Prior to Covid, most larger corporations 'encouraged' their middle managers (especially OFWG's) to retire when reaching 55 in order to open positions for younger people. Early retirement packages or offers you couldn't refuse caused many of us to retire prior to when we would have liked to. I actually retired twice. I would have preferred to work another 2-3 years, but really didn't have a choice. It is ironic that both of my companies suffered significant declines after their 'rightsizing' primarily due to many inexperienced people having responsibilities beyond their capabilities. Now these same companies are having trouble finding people to do the job. Marketing professionals in my industries typically worked 50-60 hours per week, but the younger generation doesn't want to let corporations dictate their lives (rightfully so). Big corporations created most of their current turnover and loyalty problems by the way they treated their best managers.

 

[stmartinfan]

While it seems that much of the worker shortage is in lower paying service jobs, large corporations have also created a climate where workers don't hesitate to leave, especially when they've come to see how their lives have changed without commutes, etc. With their past actions like being quick to layoff people and “restructure” and elimination of pension plans, etc., companies have created an environment where there is no longer an incentive for company loyalty.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

But why shouldn't we instead strive to make it standard that of all the millions of jobs in the huge restaurant/food service industry, many should be full-time positions that pay a living wage and provide benefits that support raising a family? Service is a perfectly respectable job, and I'd bet all of us if asked for our favorite staff at our favorite restaurants would pick the longtime workers who've made a career of it over any of the college/high school kids who cycle through.

We, meaning the collective in the United States, consume more meals outside of our homes than what happens in any other country. Just among my small circle I'd say that 40% of the people I know cook their main meal of the day maybe two days a week, and I know three different couples who NEVER cook. The US is also known the world over for our restaurants serving gigantic meals that in some cases are enough to feed a family of four off of one plate, and among those acquaintances I mention none of them take home doggie bags because they're never home to eat them! The waste is astounding. Restaurant owners/menu planners could reduce their actual food costs by reducing the portion sizes and shift that expense to provide better pay/benefits for their service staff, and as long as the quality of the food doesn't suffer then the people who frequent restaurants most often won't change their restaurant habits.

It also doesn't make sense to me that owners can assume the staff will take in a certain amount of tips and so their pay schedules include that assumption. I think that when a member of the waitstaff is not paid that assumed amount by the customer, then the owner should be required to pay it.

I think we agree that fast food is a different animal and perhaps the frontline positions in those eateries are more appropriate for the part-timers and lower wages/benefits, but right now it seems to me that the entire restaurant industry is subject to the same "standards" as fast-food eateries, and that just doesn't make sense.

But then there are people (like me and my brother) who rarely eat out. Pre-COVID, maybe once a month. Post COVID maybe once every 4-5 months. We cook. We have been cooking for decades. We think nothing of going to Hawaii and cooking the entire time. We aren't part of the "collective".

(Of course our cooking may not be considered "real" cooking - things like canned spaghetti sauce, canned vegetables, store bought bread versus homemade breads, ect. But we still assemble and heat them. . . )

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

While it seems that much of the worker shortage is in lower paying service jobs, large corporations have also created a climate where workers don't hesitate to leave, especially when they've come to see how their lives have changed without commutes, etc. With their past actions like being quick to layoff people and “restructure” and elimination of pension plans, etc., companies have created an environment where there is no longer an incentive for company loyalty.

Yes, it was a corporate management move to make the "fixed" labor costs into variable labor costs. Now they are seeing the "squeeze" of variable labor costs, when there isn't a surplus of available labor.

Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it. . . .

 

[geekette]

While it seems that much of the worker shortage is in lower paying service jobs, large corporations have also created a climate where workers don't hesitate to leave, especially when they've come to see how their lives have changed without commutes, etc. With their past actions like being quick to layoff people and “restructure” and elimination of pension plans, etc., companies have created an environment where there is no longer an incentive for company loyalty.

Pounding the like button. A company’s loyalty to their workers vaporized decades ago. Idealistic workers stayed loyal too long. No more. Own the company stock, don’t let any of them own you. I have stock in over 70 companies. Replaced one paycheck with a bunch more. Smaller, but sufficient. I think lots of us ratcheted down our expenses to cut reliance on those who use and abuse us. Crap, my stress fracture got triggered….

 

[dioxide45]

The US is also known the world over for our restaurants serving gigantic meals that in some cases are enough to feed a family of four off of one plate, and among those acquaintances I mention none of them take home doggie bags because they're never home to eat them! The waste is astounding. Restaurant owners/menu planners could reduce their actual food costs by reducing the portion sizes and shift that expense to provide better pay/benefits for their service staff, and as long as the quality of the food doesn't suffer then the people who frequent restaurants most often won't change their restaurant habits.

Do you really ever see this happening? If restaurants choose to reduce portion sizes, won't the restaurant going public expect lower prices instead? It is hard enough already to see a value in most restaurant meals. Prices are rising so fast that eating out is more of a luxury today than ever before. Food costs make up only about 25% of a restaurants expenses. Could that be cut in half without an issue to quality? Most costs are in actual labor (those dishwashers, cooks and managers that get paid paid standard minimum wage or far above. Real estate costs (building leases) are also a significant percentage of expenses for a restaurant. Margins in restaurants are so thin, perhaps less than $1 a plate, that even a small adjustment can have dire consequences.

 

[Superchief]

Do you really ever see this happening? If restaurants choose to reduce portion sizes, won't the restaurant going public expect lower prices instead? It is hard enough already to see a value in most restaurant meals. Prices are rising so fast that eating out is more of a luxury today than ever before. Food costs make up only about 25% of a restauants expenses. Could that be cut in half without an issue to quality? Most costs are in actual labor (those dishwashers, cooks and managers that get paid paid standard minimum wage or far above. Real estate costs (building leases) are also a significant percentage of expenses for a restaurant. Margins in restaurants are so thin, perhaps less than $1 a plate, that even a small adjustment can have dire consequences.

Franchise fees and corporate charges (similar to MVC management fees) can also add significant costs for chains. Grubhub and other delivery services also take a large portion of restaurants revenues. This is why I prefer eating in local businesses and picking up my own carry-out food.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

Pounding the like button. A company’s loyalty to their workers vaporized decades ago. Idealistic workers stayed loyal too long. No more. Own the company stock, don’t let any of them own you. I have stock in over 70 companies. Replaced one paycheck with a bunch more. Smaller, but sufficient. I think lots of us ratcheted down our expenses to cut reliance on those who use and abuse us. Crap, my stress fracture got triggered….

Peace be unto you, sister. You are past the pain. Find your happy place and smile.

 

[dioxide45]

I think as a country we really need to start looking at how to tackle poverty in the country. Over the past several decades the number of people on some form of government assistance has been increasing. Is it because there are more poor people, or because the social safety net getting wider and thus catching more people in it. Trillions of dollars (estimated at 15 trillion) have been spent by governments to fight poverty since the 1960s without any significant reduction in poverty rates in the country. It would seem we could have half the amount of US government debt and still be in the same place today. Perhaps we need to consider that spending even more money isn't going to solve the issue or really make it any better for those in poverty?

 

[dioxide45]

Pounding the like button. A company’s loyalty to their workers vaporized decades ago. Idealistic workers stayed loyal too long. No more. Own the company stock, don’t let any of them own you. I have stock in over 70 companies. Replaced one paycheck with a bunch more. Smaller, but sufficient. I think lots of us ratcheted down our expenses to cut reliance on those who use and abuse us. Crap, my stress fracture got triggered….

By owning the company stock, aren't you just perpetuating the problem of demanding growth at the expense of the worker?

 

[geekette]

But then there are people (like me and my brother) who rarely eat out. Pre-COVID, maybe once a month. Post COVID maybe once every 4-5 months. We cook. We have been cooking for decades. We think nothing of going to Hawaii and cooking the entire time. We aren't part of the "collective".

(Of course our cooking may not be considered "real" cooking - things like canned spaghetti sauce, canned vegetables, store bought bread versus homemade breads, ect. But we still assemble and heat them. . . )

You and me both. I enjoy it. I especially enjoy the time and money savings. Time sharing is an opportunity to cook in someone else’s kitchen, and I like that. Especially good to hunt down local ingredients.

Food cost is the most pervasive yet most controllable cost during our lives. I am much better off having spent my money on ingredients vs service. I don’t care what other people spend their money on, though. Live how you want, spend how you will.

I closed on property today with large enuf cleared sunny spot to be quite optimistic on fresh eats right out my door.

 

[geekette]

I think as a country we really need to start looking at how to tackle poverty in the country. Over the past several decades the number of people on some form of government assistance has been increasing. Is it because there are more poor people, or because the social safety net getting wider and thus catching more people in it. Trillions of dollars (estimated at 15 trillion) have been spent by governments to fight poverty since the 1960s without any significant reduction in poverty rates in the country. It would seem we could have half the amount of US government debt and still be in the same place today. Perhaps we need to consider that spending even more money isn't going to solve the issue or really make it any better for those in poverty?

Min wage stuck in the 60s is a large part of the problem. Workers got starved while execs got fat.

 

[SueDonJ]

Do you really ever see this happening? If restaurants choose to reduce portion sizes, won't the restaurant going public expect lower prices instead? It is hard enough already to see a value in most restaurant meals. Prices are rising so fast that eating out is more of a luxury today than ever before. Food costs make up only about 25% of a restaurants expenses. Could that be cut in half without an issue to quality? Most costs are in actual labor (those dishwashers, cooks and managers that get paid paid standard minimum wage or far above. Real estate costs (building leases) are also a significant percentage of expenses for a restaurant. Margins in restaurants are so thin, perhaps less than $1 a plate, that even a small adjustment can have dire consequences.

I don't see it happening anytime soon, and certainly not as the only overhaul in the industry. But it's going to take a whole lot of thinking out of the box if ever the unfair salary/benefits schedules are corrected to fairly compensate the workers, and hope springs eternal.

No doubt you're right about many restaurant-goers wanting to see lower prices if lesser portions are served. But of the people I know who eat out much more than they eat in, they agree that portions are too large and even though they don't take doggie bags home, they still hate to see the waste that's being left on their plates. Paying the same amount of money for the same amount of food that they're eating now wouldn't change their habits, especially if it helps to do away with the part of the experience that leaves them feeling that their waitstaff's compensation is as directly dependent on them as it is on the restaurant owners.

 

[geekette]

By owning the company stock, aren't you just perpetuating the problem of demanding growth at the expense of the worker?

Nope. i demand nothing. I do, however, vote my tiny proxies especially when exec comp is on the ballot.

I also try to not own companies that aren’t good to their employees or their communities. Walmart is one example. I want to support good stewards.

what would change if I didn’t own stock? I’d be poorer but no company will have done anything different. Don’t blame me. I’m a cog in the wheel. No monkey wrench. Not a lawmaker, overseer,regulator. None of that. Regular common person with zero power except over myself.

what I’m doing is getting my payday after helping corp America succeed with my toil. I want a share of profits that I never got as an employee.

 

[SueDonJ]

But then there are people (like me and my brother) who rarely eat out. Pre-COVID, maybe once a month. Post COVID maybe once every 4-5 months. We cook. We have been cooking for decades. We think nothing of going to Hawaii and cooking the entire time. We aren't part of the "collective".

(Of course our cooking may not be considered "real" cooking - things like canned spaghetti sauce, canned vegetables, store bought bread versus homemade breads, ect. But we still assemble and heat them. . . )

Same here, we very rarely eat in restaurants, and we enjoy the process of cooking our meals (which is one of the reasons we use timeshares for vacationing.) During COVID we've ordered in more often than usual because we're trying to help our favorite restaurants stay in business but even that is only a few times a month. Among our family/friends, though, pretty much everyone we know goes out at least occasionally, and some much more frequently.