Wyndham eliminating mega-renters

[Cyrus24]

Deleted.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I think that may be Yvonne Klebba.

TimeshareVon?

 

[Sloane S]

No, search her name here and you’ll find she was involved in one of the lawsuits with Wyndham.

 

[am1]

This person may also be a mega renter getting out of the business. Finish up renting and sell in the process. This is a current list of rentals and contracts for sale:

Items for sale by time-4-vacation | eBay

$10 shipping for what?

 

[Ty1on]

She also blasts FREE CLOSING! on the item title but hangs the transfer fee on the buyer.

 

[CO skier]

All the more reason for an owner to book an earlier, longer reservation. No reason to wait until 60 days, and you want to book fewer, longer reservations to conserve your free HK, RT, and GC. An owner who is booking prime reservations at full point cost only needs to average reservations of 4-5 nights apiece to keep from running out of free RT and HK.

A megarenter who moves from using resale points at a 50% discount within 60-days to booking earlier, longer reservations will use up the resale points twice as fast and leaving 100% of the reservations within 60-days for other owners to book using the full points costs.

 

[55plus]

I think that may be Yvonne Klebba.

Klebba et al v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Inc et al

Klebba et al v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Inc et al (6:13-cv-01322), Florida Middle District Court

Klebba et al v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Inc et al (6:13-cv-01322), Florida Middle District Court, Filed: 08/28/2013

www.pacermonitor.com

 

[Jan M.]

Klebba et al v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Inc et al

Klebba et al v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Inc et al (6:13-cv-01322), Florida Middle District Court

Klebba et al v. Wyndham Vacation Resorts Inc et al (6:13-cv-01322), Florida Middle District Court, Filed: 08/28/2013

www.pacermonitor.com

What was the outcome?

 

[wjappraise]

Who is George? I'm not George - so I'm assuming you might be referring to someone else contributing on this thread? If not, and you're referring to me, you can call me CJ.



Yes, but everyone seems to conveniently omit and/or forget the fact that the MFs fees used for the EH rentals still have to be paid - either by the owner association (the HOA) and/or by Wyndham directly. My loose understanding is that exactly who pays the fees and who rents the inventory is different across various resorts. Meaning that in some cases - recovered inventory is sometimes recovered to the association - and sometimes it is recovered by Wyndham via Certified Exit and held by Wyndham. I've even heard that certain resorts have contractual arrangements whereby a certain percentage of the inventory that comes back through Certified Exit actually comes directly back to the association - Wyndham only gets a portion of the recovered inventory. I'm unsure how the particulars work for these arrangements - but I've heard about such arrangements in my travels. Some associations have Wyndham rent the inventory they hold directly - using EH - again under contractual arrangements not unlike the rental agreement that an owner signs when submitting inventory to EH - but I'm sure the T&Cs are not the same.

For the inventory that Wyndham recovers via Certified Exit and/or any other programs - and even for the inventory that Wyndham holds back and never resells to owners - Wyndham must pay the MFs. So while I wholeheartedly agree that Wyndham is the 800lb gorilla - I don't take issue with Wyndham renting inventory that they actually hold and own - since they must pay MFs to the associations for that inventory. Does anyone really think it's reasonable to demand that Wyndham hold large amounts of inventory without attempting to recover revenues via rentals? Would we expect that of any individual owners? No, we expect owners - whether Wyndham or megarenters - to use their inventory in the most efficient manner possible. Obviously -Wyndham is forcing out megarenters - because it's their system and they can do so. Does that mean that Wyndham will rent more? Assuming Wyndham is holding the inventory in question, yes. I would expect nothing else.

The EH T&Cs also plainly state that the entire rental program is only to be used as a last resort - meaning that any/all points owned by individual owners should be used for vacationing, but the EH program exists as a last resort for those owners who cannot use their vacation points for personal use. It's also worth mentioning that the majority of Wyndham resorts still don't have any rental limitations. While the blackout list got larger in June - it's still a minority of resorts - and the blackout list itself accounts for a minority of calendar year dates. So rentals still aren't going away - at least not right now - but the days of being able to use cheap resale inventory for VIP owners by applying VIP discounts and benefits is going away.



I know that Wyndham has some inventory at Clearwater that isn't available via CWP that they hold directly. This inventory is sometimes used for Wyndham personnel during corporate events at that resort. When it's not in use - it is rented by Wyndham to help cover fees. Obviously I have no idea if the room you stayed is Wyndham owned - but it's possible.



The bolded item is my number one complaint for EH - I've had this exact conversation with several sales directors over time. I'm not sure I understand how Wyndham doubles profits? If it's Wyndham owned inventory - they have to pay the MFs yes? So how is the profit doubled? I might not be understanding the use case you're referring to here.

Thanks CJ. Sorry for the George renaming. Not sure how I came up with that.

It will be interesting to see it play out. I truly hope I’m wrong about my concerns about the mafia hits put out to make EH the only game in town. But I fear I am right.

It would be interesting to see if Florida attorney general decided to take a look at the activity. Can you imagine the corporate reaction to subpoenas for discovery of sources for EH inventory? Or subpoenas for the internal emails? Maybe I’m watching too many Tom Clancy movies.

Wes.

 

[55plus]

What was the outcome?

Unknown. I don't know what it was about. Maybe the unlimited guest certificate change? I know the change angered a lot of VIPP members and there was talk of suing. Thirty free GCs is way too many for me, but not enough for others. I guess the change ate into their profits.

 

[CO skier]

It would be interesting to see if Florida attorney general decided to take a look at the activity. Can you imagine the corporate reaction to subpoenas for discovery of sources for EH inventory?

Probably a few eye-rolls and maybe a yawn at the prospect of wasting their time.

"
11.08 Wyndham Use. In addition to the right of Wyndham, as a Member and owner of Points, to make reservations using those Points at any time, Wyndham, in its capacity as the developer of resort communities and Vacation Plans, may reserve available Accommodations up to 60 days in advance of the first day of anticipated occupancy, for its own purposes, including renting to the public, provided it pays or otherwise causes a third party to pay the occupancy related expenses of such Accommodations for each night to be used. All such occupancy related expenses shall be determined by the Trustee. As a result of Wyndham’s use there will be less space available for Member use; however, Wyndham may not reserve the last 10% of available occupancy for a type of Accommodation until 30 days prior to the first day of intended use. In addition, to the extent more Points are available in the Plan than are allocated to Members other
than Wyndham, Wyndham may sell or lease Points on such terms as Wyndham and the Trustee deem reasonable. The purchasers or lessees of such Points shall have such Membership rights as Wyndham and the Trustee deem appropriate."

 

[am1]

Unknown. I don't know what it was about. Maybe the unlimited guest certificate change? I know the change angered a lot of VIPP members and there was talk of suing. Thirty free GCs is way too many for me, but not enough for others. I guess the change ate into their profits.

I started to book larger units at higher value locations. Then all the ways I got free guest confirmations I wrote about before. Add two names to a 3 way split reservation and cancel the middle stay but the two names stayed on the first Fri-Sun as well as the second Fri -Sun. Person who purchased the first reservation checks in and out and then 5 days later the person sho purchased the second weekend checks in and out. All for $99 as the website was not set up to do a 3 part split reservation or otherwise in would be $129 which I did not want to have to spend the extra $30 on. After that I started traveling a few times and the front desk was more then happy to add the guest names directly at the resort the day of check in or a few cases where it would be up to a week out when showed in their system. Then when contracts were moved from one account to another (a way to transfer points as the contract would be loaded with 3 years of points when transferring) new guest confirmations would show up in the account receiving the new contracts. This was a by product of having to move points around to be able to book 10 units at a resort at the same time. A happy accident that Wyndham had no idea how to resolve or address. Still over the years I paid high 5 figures in guest fees.

 

[55plus]

It looks like the points in these contracts are gone until 2022. Will Wyndham do a transfer or will points have to be purchased/added to the contract before the transfer can proceed?

Items for sale by time-4-vacation | eBay

Shop eBay for great deals from time-4-vacation!

www.ebay.com

 

[dgalati]

It looks like the points in these contracts are gone until 2022. Will Wyndham do a transfer or will points have to be purchased/added to the contract before the transfer can proceed?

Items for sale by time-4-vacation | eBay

Shop eBay for great deals from time-4-vacation!

www.ebay.com

Current use year points can be used but beware if owner has no current use year points available and has any ownership their account will show a negative balance. I f you sell and have no other ownership available it still transfers just like if Ovations takes it back at a $0 cost.

 

[dgalati]

Who is George? I'm not George - so I'm assuming you might be referring to someone else contributing on this thread? If not, and you're referring to me, you can call me CJ.



Yes, but everyone seems to conveniently omit and/or forget the fact that the MFs fees used for the EH rentals still have to be paid - either by the owner association (the HOA) and/or by Wyndham directly. My loose understanding is that exactly who pays the fees and who rents the inventory is different across various resorts. Meaning that in some cases - recovered inventory is sometimes recovered to the association - and sometimes it is recovered by Wyndham via Certified Exit and held by Wyndham. I've even heard that certain resorts have contractual arrangements whereby a certain percentage of the inventory that comes back through Certified Exit actually comes directly back to the association - Wyndham only gets a portion of the recovered inventory. I'm unsure how the particulars work for these arrangements - but I've heard about such arrangements in my travels. Some associations have Wyndham rent the inventory they hold directly - using EH - again under contractual arrangements not unlike the rental agreement that an owner signs when submitting inventory to EH - but I'm sure the T&Cs are not the same.

For the inventory that Wyndham recovers via Certified Exit and/or any other programs - and even for the inventory that Wyndham holds back and never resells to owners - Wyndham must pay the MFs. So while I wholeheartedly agree that Wyndham is the 800lb gorilla - I don't take issue with Wyndham renting inventory that they actually hold and own - since they must pay MFs to the associations for that inventory. Does anyone really think it's reasonable to demand that Wyndham hold large amounts of inventory without attempting to recover revenues via rentals? Would we expect that of any individual owners? No, we expect owners - whether Wyndham or megarenters - to use their inventory in the most efficient manner possible. Obviously -Wyndham is forcing out megarenters - because it's their system and they can do so. Does that mean that Wyndham will rent more? Assuming Wyndham is holding the inventory in question, yes. I would expect nothing else.

The EH T&Cs also plainly state that the entire rental program is only to be used as a last resort - meaning that any/all points owned by individual owners should be used for vacationing, but the EH program exists as a last resort for those owners who cannot use their vacation points for personal use. It's also worth mentioning that the majority of Wyndham resorts still don't have any rental limitations. While the blackout list got larger in June - it's still a minority of resorts - and the blackout list itself accounts for a minority of calendar year dates. So rentals still aren't going away - at least not right now - but the days of being able to use cheap resale inventory for VIP owners by applying VIP discounts and benefits is going away.



I know that Wyndham has some inventory at Clearwater that isn't available via CWP that they hold directly. This inventory is sometimes used for Wyndham personnel during corporate events at that resort. When it's not in use - it is rented by Wyndham to help cover fees. Obviously I have no idea if the room you stayed is Wyndham owned - but it's possible.



The bolded item is my number one complaint for EH - I've had this exact conversation with several sales directors over time. I'm not sure I understand how Wyndham doubles profits? If it's Wyndham owned inventory - they have to pay the MFs yes? So how is the profit doubled? I might not be understanding the use case you're referring to here.

Goerge is @bogey21

 

[dgalati]

A megarenter who moves from using resale points at a 50% discount within 60-days to booking earlier, longer reservations will use up the resale points twice as fast and leaving 100% of the reservations within 60-days for other owners to book using the full points costs.

Amen brother! Makes me want to buy more points to book the new availability!

 

[CO skier]

Amen brother! Makes me want to buy more points to book the new availability!

You will have to if you want to continue vacationing within Club Wyndham, because there will be little available at "less than maintenance fees."

 

[dgalati]

You will have to if you want to continue vacationing within Club Wyndham, because there will be little available at "less than maintenance fees."

We will see. No problem going back and buying points. This was always by gripe, why buy if its cheaper to rent? I have a feeling there will still be cheap rentals for my travel needs.

 

[Ty1on]

What was the outcome?

The Klebbas withdrew the case in 2017

Notice of Dismissal filed by plaintiffs

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

We will see.........I have a feeling there will still be cheap rentals for my travel needs.

Only time will tell -
I am not questioning your theory / I would like to read your Aug. 2022 thread on you it worked out.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

We will see. No problem going back and buying points. This was always by gripe, why buy if its cheaper to rent? .....

Should you buy points now while the resale market is flooded and hedge your bets ?

 

[CO skier]

Should you buy points now while the resale market is flooded and hedge your bets ?

In every recent year, selling prices are lower in the fall/winter. The only reason to buy now would be if it meets some specific need, or to have the contract transfer in time to have all of 2022 to use the 2022 Use Year points.

Another reason to wait is that every month delayed is one month less of maintenance fees to pay once the contract transfers.

 

[Eric B]

.
Quote of deleted political rant removed

If you believe that mechanics’ liens are new and limited to Florida, you haven’t owned homes in many other States. The potential is fairly universal and a good reason to pay subcontractors and material suppliers directly. That’s how we’ve dealt with the issue when we’ve done upgrades to houses in several States.

Mechanic's lien - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dgalati]

Should you buy points now while the resale market is flooded and hedge your bets ?

I just purchased a 400k deeded low cost maintenance fee CWS at $375 all in. If I have to I can always give away after I use current use year points if the market permits renting for less. Keeping all options available and having a backup plan.

 

[dgalati]

In every recent year, selling prices are lower in the fall/winter. The only reason to buy now would be if it meets some specific need, or to have the contract transfer in time to have all of 2022 to use the 2022 Use Year points.

Another reason to wait is that every month delayed is one month less of maintenance fees to pay once the contract transfers.

Its a July use year. No worries I have it covered. I figure transfer by beginning of 2022. This should give me 800k of points to use in a little over 6 month time span. Even if I pay the $180 per month in maintenance fees Its still a great deal at around $2.70/1000