USING DC POINTS TO STAY AT HYATT AND WESTIN RESORTS

[CPNY]

Technically 6-9 months!

In reality 8-12!

 

[Big Matt]

I went to a sales presentation in April and was told the middle of 2022. The sales pitch is now focused on using points rather than II. "Don't deposit into Interval. Marriott can see what you are depositing and limit what you can trade for." Of course that's a load of bull, but it made me think about it. The simplest method for solving the Marriott/Sheraton/Hyatt transition is in II. It would be easy to create a currency (points) that would enable trading in and out. Plus you could do it for days instead of weeks.

 

[Dean]

I want to stay with Vistana forever. However, it looks like Marriott will soon force Vistana owners into DC by devaluing Staroptions big time. I don't want it at all but have to adopt soon.

Doubtful. Regardless of the exact system and method, it's likely Vistana owners will continue to have the same or similar options for direct reservations and/or preferred home resort reservations. I suspect it'll fall somewhere similar to the discussion for MVC when the points options came out. Some saw this as a major problem but the reality is they lost no, or almost no, direct options. Basically that someone else's gain is not necessarily another's loss. One could argue that there might have been some minimal change in availability for the highest demand weeks for those who didn't use points but I'm not sure even that is accurate. Now if one looks at II availability, there is more of a valid concern, but that is clearly not a guaranteed option anyway so it's a moot point IMO. I do expect there will be a crossover at some point, it's inevitable if they keep the system(s). Ultimately the impact will depend largely on whether they create a new level or crossover or simply roll them into one system. I strongly suspect the former will be the case. Obviously the more they combine them the more affect there will be on completion and availability but it also means the more options that all affected will have. I don't see much material affect on Vistana or MVC from any of the options as neither offers that much to the other though there are limited exceptions like HHI. The real issue IMO is how this will affect Westin owners but ultimately I think the answers will be similar, no real affect unless they chose to participate.

 

[BocaBoy]

With VSN people can buy a lower cost resort (especially in maintenance fees) and trade into a higher cost resort at 8 months out. The worry is that this will either get harder or the lower cost & demand resorts will no longer get sufficient points to make the trade and/or there will be less availability.

This is as it should be. I would worry if this did not happen.

 

[planada]

Alittle off topic but they also said MVC was in talks with Tauck (Explorer Collection) to add (or replace Collette) for tours. Again…..we shall see!


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[pchung6]

This is as it should be. I would worry if this did not happen.

This is exactly what i mean devaluation of Staroptions.

 

[BocaBoy]

....they also said MVC was in talks with Tauck (Explorer Collection) to add (or replace Collette) for tours. Again…..we shall see.

That would be fantastic. Tauck is the Gold Standard in group tours.

 

[dioxide45]

Alittle off topic but they also said MVC was in talks with Tauck (Explorer Collection) to add (or replace Collette) for tours. Again…..we shall see!

That would be fantastic. Tauck is the Gold Standard in group tours.

Would this mean that those tours would end up costing more DC points?

 

[SunandFun83]

The salesman at the last tour we went on ( May ) said that in the first quarter of 2022, MVC owners will be able to see and reserve Westin/Vistana weeks on the MVC site using your MVC pts.

We'll See

Marriott Owners can see and reserve Hyatt, Westin and Vistana reservations using MVC points. This only applies to owners who buy at least 5,000 more points and owners who believe everything they hear at a sales presentation (Insert sarcasm here in case you missed it).

Did you real just say "The sales rep said my points could do all these wonderful things" and you believed it?

 

[THSMTHS]

Not directly at this time. You could use DC points to trade through Interval International, but I’m sure you are looking for a direct booking method, which does not exist yet.

We doubt that Hyatt will ever be directly bookable but suspect Westin will, and we’ve been waiting for a mechanism to be announced. Stay tuned....

Best,

Greg

Can you tell me what DC points are? I know about DP points.

 

[THSMTHS]

I think the worry for Vistana owners is that today the VSN and it’s StarOptions works a lot different than what I understand of DC. Most of the Sheraton and Westin’s get and cost the same number of StarOptions through the high season of the year (year around in HI). DC seems to value each resort and even week of year differently. With VSN people can buy a lower cost resort (especially in maintenance fees) and trade into a higher cost resort at 8 months out. The worry is that this will either get harder or the lower cost & demand resorts will no longer get sufficient points to make the trade and/or there will be less availability. Or that the conversation rate into DC points will be too low.

While I think some of these things could happen, in the end if it is not attractive for Vistana owners to trade into MVC, there won’t be many units for MVC owners to trade into Vistana. So I remain optimistic.


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Went to a presentation yesterday at Westin Kierland Villas. Was heartened to hear that Marriott is sending people to be trained by Vistana.

Here is what we heard will change for Vistana. Where Vistana has a consistent currency of exchange, resorts will be reassessed and given different point values. For example, currently,148,100 options gives access to a two bedroom at most of the Westin resorts in the Flex system. The value of resorts will change where some will require more options/point and others less. Valuation will likely be based on demand as are the Marriott resorts.

Availability with Flex currently is another issue, as the Flex system is not fully funded and will not have that opportunity to fully fund due to the merger. What should have been a 12 mo. window to secure a unit is often 8 mo. due to lack of funding, if you can obtain a unit at all.

Personally, we have been able to book what we want under the current configuration. We liked the equity between Vistana resorts.

I do not think the merge will be good for Vistana.

 

[CPNY]

Went to a presentation yesterday at Westin Kierland Villas. Was heartened to hear that Marriott is sending people to be trained by Vistana.

Here is what we heard will change for Vistana. Where Vistana has a consistent currency of exchange, resorts will be reassessed and given different point values. For example, currently,148,100 options gives access to a two bedroom at most of the Westin resorts in the Flex system. The value of resorts will change where some will require more options/point and others less. Valuation will likely be based on demand as are the Marriott resorts.

Availability with Flex currently is another issue, as the Flex system is not fully funded and will not have that opportunity to fully fund due to the merger. What should have been a 12 mo. window to secure a unit is often 8 mo. due to lack of funding, if you can obtain a unit at all.

Personally, we have been able to book what we want under the current configuration. We liked the equity between Vistana resorts.

I do not think the merge will be good for Vistana.

Interesting. Especially assigning new point values for resorts in the VSN. Something tells me once Marriott gets their grubby mitts all over the VSN, I’ll be selling and become a renter, or buy resale at WSJ and not have to worry about availability.

 

[SueDonJ]

Can you tell me what DC points are? I know about DP points.

They're the same thing - DC (Destination Club) Points and DP (Destination Points) are used interchangeably on TUG, to mean either/or purchased DC Trust Points and DC Exchange or Legacy Points from electing to exchange an enrolled Week for DC Points.

 

[SueDonJ]

Interesting. Especially assigning new point values for resorts in the VSN. Something tells me once Marriott gets their grubby mitts all over the VSN, I’ll be selling and become a renter, or buy resale at WSJ and not have to worry about availability.

I'm reading THSMTHS' post as the Star Options values remaining the same but Marriott valuing Vistana Weeks the same way they value Marriott Weeks i.e. differentiating among resort/season/unit size/views so that Vistana Weeks that have the same SO options would possibly (probably?) be allocated different DC Points values. If Vistana integration is done by the same process as Marriott Weeks, i.e. offering an additional option of allowing eligible Weeks to be enrolled so that owners can get the added usage of annually electing a Week for DC Points, then it would have absolutely no bearing on any existing usage options.

As I understand it there are already some Vistana ownerships that are in points currency only, not Weeks, so enrollment in the DC for those ownerships would be a Vistana Points=? DC Exchange Points metric. Those are the ownerships which I would expect will retain more usage value being used in the Vistana system and not in the Destination Club, but if a similar DC enrollment is implemented for Vistana then choosing whether or not to participate will depend on how any/all of the DC available usage options could be used by each individual owner.

 

[Ken555]

Went to a presentation yesterday at Westin Kierland Villas. Was heartened to hear that Marriott is sending people to be trained by Vistana.

Here is what we heard will change for Vistana. Where Vistana has a consistent currency of exchange, resorts will be reassessed and given different point values. For example, currently,148,100 options gives access to a two bedroom at most of the Westin resorts in the Flex system. The value of resorts will change where some will require more options/point and others less. Valuation will likely be based on demand as are the Marriott resorts.

Availability with Flex currently is another issue, as the Flex system is not fully funded and will not have that opportunity to fully fund due to the merger. What should have been a 12 mo. window to secure a unit is often 8 mo. due to lack of funding, if you can obtain a unit at all.

Personally, we have been able to book what we want under the current configuration. We liked the equity between Vistana resorts.

I do not think the merge will be good for Vistana.

The good news is that we all know not to trust anything the sales Dept says. Sure, sometimes they’re right but more often they’re not. Let’s just hope they’re not in this case, because if this is true and if our VSN internal network is dramatically altered, then this wouldn’t be the program we bought. If that happened, I’d also need to readjust my travel plans.

Personally, the only good news is that I’ve had my WKV 148 week for 16 years, and it’s been a positive experience and a good buy all this time. I’ve enjoyed it. If Marriott trashes our ability to trade and I find I can’t use it effectively then I’ll also just sell and move on.


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[CPNY]

I'm reading THSMTHS' post as the Star Options values remaining the same but Marriott valuing Vistana Weeks the same way they value Marriott Weeks i.e. differentiating among resort/season/unit size/views so that Vistana Weeks that have the same SO options would possibly (probably?) be allocated different DC Points values. If Vistana integration is done by the same process as Marriott Weeks, i.e. offering an additional option of allowing eligible Weeks to be enrolled so that owners can get the added usage of annually electing a Week for DC Points, then it would have absolutely no bearing on any existing usage options.

As I understand it there are already some Vistana ownerships that are in points currency only, not Weeks, so enrollment in the DC for those ownerships would be a Vistana Points=? DC Exchange Points metric. Those are the ownerships which I would expect will retain more usage value being used in the Vistana system and not in the Destination Club, but if a similar DC enrollment is implemented for Vistana then choosing whether or not to participate will depend on how any/all of the DC available usage options could be used by each individual owner.

If I understand correctly, you’re saying the vistana weeks could potentially have the skim that Marriott enrolled weeks have when choosing to convert in an combined program? As for flex owners, they would have a point conversion rate in the combined program. I am ok with that as long as Marriott doesn’t touch the VSN star options chart for booking within the VSN at 8 months.

Can enrolled Marriott week owners convert to DC points at any time in the year or do they have to convert within a certain timeframe?

 

[CPNY]

The good news is that we all know not to trust anything the sales Dept says. Sure, sometimes they’re right but more often they’re not. Let’s just hope they’re not in this case, because if this is true and if our VSN internal network is dramatically altered, then this wouldn’t be the program we bought. If that happened, I’d also need to readjust my travel plans.

Personally, the only good news is that I’ve had my WKV 148 week for 16 years, and it’s been a positive experience and a good buy all this time. I’ve enjoyed it. If Marriott trashes our ability to trade and I find I can’t use it effectively then I’ll also just sell and move on.


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I couldn’t agree more. I went to WSJ for the first time after all these years. I loved the island and I will absolutely be back. Being on the east coast, the Caribbean is where I want to be. As far as timeshares are concerned, I am more than ok with WSJ and Harborside trips. If I can never get into MSU or MAO, I am totally fine with that. If the VSN is changed drastically, I’d keep one SVV ownership for the interval access for getaways, AC’s and the occasional exchange, rent cheap at harborside and pick up a WSJ week.

 

[SueDonJ]

If I understand correctly, you’re saying the vistana weeks could potentially have the skim that Marriott enrolled weeks have when choosing to convert in an combined program? As for flex owners, they would have a point conversion rate in the combined program. I am ok with that as long as Marriott doesn’t touch the VSN star options chart for booking within the VSN at 8 months.

IF they roll out the DC with Vistana owners the same way that they rolled it out with Marriott owners, yes, that's what I'd expect - enrollment in the DC that's not a permanent exchange of an ownership but offers a new usage option (basically membership in the Destination Club Exchange Company) and that doesn't impact any other existing usage options.

For those who don't know, "skim" is when an owner doesn't receive a sufficient number of DC Points to book the same intervals which can be booked when a Week is not elected for DC Points and used in season at the home resort. And yes, I'd expect skim to be a factor, because it was explained by Marriott that the skim was intended to cover the excess breakage when a Week is elected and the allotted Points result in fewer nights being booked/used. (For whatever it's worth I've always compared the DC skim of my Weeks with the skim that happens in II, because I think of the DC as just another exchange option and my particular non-lockoff 3BR Weeks hadn't ever gotten like-for-like exchange value in II. For me, based on what I own and how I use it, the DC simply offers more exchange value. Others get much more value out of II because of what they own.)

... Can enrolled Marriott week owners convert to DC points at any time in the year or do they have to convert within a certain timeframe?

The deadlines to annually elect DC Points for enrolled Weeks depend on membership levels: Owners, Select and Executive Members must elect by September 30th of the year prior to the Use Year, Presidential and Chairman's Club Members must elect by October 31st of the year prior to the Use Year.

 

[Ken555]

I couldn’t agree more. I went to WSJ for the first time after all these years. I loved the island and I will absolutely be back. Being on the east coast, the Caribbean is where I want to be. As far as timeshares are concerned, I am more than ok with WSJ and Harborside trips. If I can never get into MSU or MAO, I am totally fine with that. If the VSN is changed drastically, I’d keep one SVV ownership for the interval access for getaways, AC’s and the occasional exchange, rent cheap at harborside and pick up a WSJ week.

We each have our own needs and goals. I've not yet been to WSJ, and based on what I've been told, it's not for me (though I would certainly enjoy going at least once). I've been to HBR several times and don't miss it - overpriced food, etc... similarly, I could see returning every 5-8 years but that's about it. For me, the best value from my WKV week is using it for Hawaii. If that changes negativity for me (based on my travel schedule), then I'm out. Somehow I don't see it happening. My prediction is that these doom and gloom threads are mostly wrong. Marriott is not stupid and they don't want to alienate the loyal SVN/VSN customers. Sure, they may adjust the program, but I don't see them changing it so drastically that we wouldn't be able to effectively use it. And some people wonder why I don't go to "update" meetings.

 

[pchung6]

For me, the best value from my WKV week is using it for Hawaii. If that changes negativity for me (based on my travel schedule), then I'm out. Somehow I don't see it happening. My prediction is that these doom and gloom threads are mostly wrong. Marriott is not stupid and they don't want to alienate the loyal SVN/VSN customers.

This will be the best scenario Marriott doesn't make any negatively change to VSN. I hope Marriott is not that idiot to anger all the VSN loyal customers. Seriously they are very loyal to legacy SPG. I still cannot get over SPG was acquired by Marriott and everything went downhill. Beside my timeshare stays, now I've moved 60-70% of my business stays to Hilton. Thanks to Hilton Amex Aspire card with Diamond status benefit.
As both VSN and Marriott owners, I had couple opportunities to enroll Marriott weeks to DC and I declined both times. I just didn't see the value of DC fits my life style and the skim is another factor I refused to join. Mostly likely I will decline to enroll my VSN weeks to DC, unless it has clear advantage which I highly doubt. If they come out with nuclear doom option to destroy Staroptions, I am out too. We will see.

 

[CPNY]

We each have our own needs and goals. I've not yet been to WSJ, and based on what I've been told, it's not for me (though I would certainly enjoy going at least once). I've been to HBR several times and don't miss it - overpriced food, etc... similarly, I could see returning every 5-8 years but that's about it. For me, the best value from my WKV week is using it for Hawaii. If that changes negativity for me (based on my travel schedule), then I'm out. Somehow I don't see it happening. My prediction is that these doom and gloom threads are mostly wrong. Marriott is not stupid and they don't want to alienate the loyal SVN/VSN customers. Sure, they may adjust the program, but I don't see them changing it so drastically that we wouldn't be able to effectively use it. And some people wonder why I don't go to "update" meetings.

Couldn’t agree more. I’d probably be more interested in Hawaii if I were closer. Beautiful beaches 2-3 hours away is just easier. The Atlantis is completely overpriced... luckily i rarely buy food there, bringing a cooler filled with lunch and alcohol to the beach does the trick.

I don’t think Marriott will decimate the VSN, but I do expect changes. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. To your point, I do hope these doom and gloom threads are wrong. I really enjoy what the VSN has to offer.

 

[kds4]

Alittle off topic but they also said MVC was in talks with Tauck (Explorer Collection) to add (or replace Collette) for tours. Again…..we shall see!


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We were told additional tour options/providers besides Collette were in the works as well in our NCV update this week.

 

[kds4]

Would this mean that those tours would end up costing more DC points?

I would say definitely, maybe. A couple of the new tour options mentioned to us included Nat Geo tours (with as few as 6 owners). With such a small group, I would expect the tour would have to cost more than one for a group of say 12 owners, right?

 

[kds4]

If I understand correctly, you’re saying the vistana weeks could potentially have the skim that Marriott enrolled weeks have when choosing to convert in an combined program? As for flex owners, they would have a point conversion rate in the combined program. I am ok with that as long as Marriott doesn’t touch the VSN star options chart for booking within the VSN at 8 months.

Can enrolled Marriott week owners convert to DC points at any time in the year or do they have to convert within a certain timeframe?

There is an annual window with a deadline for owners to elect whether to keep their week as a week or convert it to destination points for the upcoming calendar/usage year. As long as you elect within the window (and prior to the deadline), you're fine. Your ownership level determines your deadline.

 

[Dean]

Alittle off topic but they also said MVC was in talks with Tauck (Explorer Collection) to add (or replace Collette) for tours. Again…..we shall see!


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I could see them changing but I couldn't see Tauck being the end point. MVC would require a significant discount to do so. From what I can figure Collette is giving them a 20-25% discount. I don't see Tauck as being willing to give much discounts to anyone.