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How are TX Tuggers making out?

Sandy VDH

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Lots of finger pointing and lot of places to lay blame.

Just as long as they put down the fingers and plan on fixing I would be happy.
 

SueDonJ

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The green energy sources were a problem because the TX authorities failed to invest in proper set-up. It's the people in charge that failed, not the tech. Greenland, Canada and Netherlands run just fine on wind power during frigid conditions.
As you say, the failure of wind power in this situation is due to the apparent prioritization of cost savings over proper set-up, but we don't have to go outside the US borders to find wind power being harvested in cold-weather conditions.
 

PigsDad

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As you say, the failure of wind power in this situation is due to the apparent prioritization of cost savings over proper set-up, but we don't have to go outside the US borders to find wind power being harvested in cold-weather conditions.
Exactly. Wyoming has lots of wind and huge wind farms that work year round. Have you ever been to Wyoming in the dead of winter? ;)

Kurt
 

bbodb1

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The green energy sources were a problem because the TX authorities failed to invest in proper set-up.

Nonetheless, Green Energy sources were a problem. A portion of the power generation capacity delivered by Green Energy failed when needed most AND there was insufficient (close to no) excess capacity from other power generation sources.

I agree with the point about inadequate safeguards against the cold BUT for many reasons, it was decided the cost to install such safeguards was not worth the cost. Had those safeguards been installed, would the price PKW generated from Green Energy sources been too expensive to be a reasonable alternative in the Texas Energy market? In that case, would you prefer that Texas had made NO strides toward the use of Green Energy?

Just to be absolutely clear on this, I do NOT want to see us move away from Green Energy sources - we would be silly NOT to harness wind and solar energy sources where we can. But when the power generators in an area become dependent on an energy source (in this case, Green Energy) and cannot quickly replace that capacity when a crisis strikes, the power generators in that area have inadequate capacity. Whether it is the fault of the market structure, the cost to implement Green Energy being too high, or some combination of these (and other) factors needs to be factually determined.

It's the people in charge that failed, not the tech. Greenland, Canada and Netherlands run just fine on wind power during frigid conditions.

And those markets are very different from Texas.
 

bbodb1

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Exactly. Wyoming has lots of wind and huge wind farms that work year round. Have you ever been to Wyoming in the dead of winter? ;)

Kurt

I've aimed my truck toward it.....
 

MULTIZ321

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Yikes.

A payment plan for $10,000? I don't think so.

Automatic debit wiped out? ouch. this is why I don't do autopay except from my side. I'll push, but they can't pull.

That's an economic bombshell on top of everything else.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Yikes! I am so glad we have solar on our roof. If this outage happened we would add a backup battery wall for cloudy days and not be be at the mercy of the electric company. This may incent more Texans to go off the grid with solar.
 
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Ralph Sir Edward

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Yikes! I am so glad we have solar on our roof. If this outage happened we would add a backup battery wall for cloudy days and not be be at the mercy of the electric company. This may incent more Texans to go off the grid with solar.

Which did absolutely no good at all in this case. 4 inches of snow all over the panels blocks all sunlight. Zero electricity, unless you wanted to get on an icy, snowy roof and try to clear them by hand, at 15 F, on what would be cloudy days anyways. . .

Roofs didn't clear until today. How much battery could you afford, and now much Li-ion do you want inside of your house? (fire hazard!) Outside at that temperature reduced the storage by at least 1/2.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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Nonetheless, Green Energy sources were a problem. A portion of the power generation capacity delivered by Green Energy failed when needed most AND there was insufficient (close to no) excess capacity from other power generation sources.

I agree with the point about inadequate safeguards against the cold BUT for many reasons, it was decided the cost to install such safeguards was not worth the cost. Had those safeguards been installed, would the price PKW generated from Green Energy sources been too expensive to be a reasonable alternative in the Texas Energy market? In that case, would you prefer that Texas had made NO strides toward the use of Green Energy?

Just to be absolutely clear on this, I do NOT want to see us move away from Green Energy sources - we would be silly NOT to harness wind and solar energy sources where we can. But when the power generators in an area become dependent on an energy source (in this case, Green Energy) and cannot quickly replace that capacity when a crisis strikes, the power generators in that area have inadequate capacity. Whether it is the fault of the market structure, the cost to implement Green Energy being too high, or some combination of these (and other) factors needs to be factually determined.



And those markets are very different from Texas.

Who pays for the back-up capacity?
For the cost of building the back-up plants?
For the cost of having people on standby who know how to fire it up?
For having the fuel on-hand to run the plants?
For the cost of maintaining the plants?

None of this is free. If you look at places with a reasonable large fraction of "green" energy, they have double, triple, or more electricity costs. Just to fund the back-ups. . .
 

Beach57

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I just got power back after a rotating blackout that lasted 21 hours. Power was off from late afternoon yesterday to early afternoon today. So much for rotating.

I live in the Houston area. Outside temperature low was 12F (-11C) overnight last night. House got down to 52F (11C). Power finally came back on and I am heating up the house expecting the power to be shut off again.

So much for green power, it is a large portion of wind generators that are frozen and are contributing to a large portion of the power shortfall in the TX grid, that is forcing rotating power outages. Other equipment is failing in the extreme cold and that is also contributing to the power shortage as well.

Stay warm Texas Tuggers. TX is just not equiped to handle this extreme cold.
So sorry. I feel your pain.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Which did absolutely no good at all in this case. 4 inches of snow all over the panels blocks all sunlight. Zero electricity, unless you wanted to get on an icy, snowy roof and try to clear them by hand, at 15 F, on what would be cloudy days anyways. . .

Roofs didn't clear until today. How much battery could you afford, and now much Li-ion do you want inside of your house? (fire hazard!) Outside at that temperature reduced the storage by at least 1/2.
You could also buy a generator for such events.

I am curious, was the nat gas to run heaters also off in addition to the electricity?
 

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We’ve finally had to move to a hotel. No water since Monday and the wet carpet finally began smelling so bad we just couldn’t take it anymore - it was starting to make us physically ill.
It felt good to have a shower and just relax at the hotel.

The apartment has really become unlivable so we will begin packing up tomorrow and have to make a decision where we’re going to go. They don’t have another apartment for us so they’re letting us terminate our lease. So....now where? No idea. Our plans to travel extensively are obviously blown to heck due to Covid restrictions and dangers.

So, here we are. But, I’m so very grateful to have only been minimally affected by this storm. When I see what others are enduring it’s almost more than I can bear. I don’t know how some people are going to recover from all this. I just know that we all have to do our part to help however we can.

Stay safe everyone.
 

SueDonJ

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We’ve finally had to move to a hotel. No water since Monday and the wet carpet finally began smelling so bad we just couldn’t take it anymore - it was starting to make us physically ill.
It felt good to have a shower and just relax at the hotel.

The apartment has really become unlivable so we will begin packing up tomorrow and have to make a decision where we’re going to go. They don’t have another apartment for us so they’re letting us terminate our lease. So....now where? No idea. Our plans to travel extensively are obviously blown to heck due to Covid restrictions and dangers.

So, here we are. But, I’m so very grateful to have only been minimally affected by this storm. When I see what others are enduring it’s almost more than I can bear. I don’t know how some people are going to recover from all this. I just know that we all have to do our part to help however we can.

Stay safe everyone.

Safe travels, Jan, and safe landings.
 

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No more rolling blackouts (I think). No water for 3 days and it’s likely to be another week.

i still feel lucky. We have plenty of food. We have plenty of drinking water because we subscribe to a delivery service. We still have water in the tubs to flush the toilets-though I’m watching that carefully.

As I mentioned, I would have been completely caught off guard had i not heard my kids teacher say on her Zoom class that the temperature was going to drop to 8 degrees.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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You could also buy a generator for such events.

I am curious, was the nat gas to run heaters also off in addition to the electricity?

How much are you willing to pay for backup? Here's the Honda generator output/price sheet:


Starts at a $1,000 for 1000 watts and goes up - and up - and up. . . Then how are you going to use it? You can't use the existing wiring unless you are set up with an external inverter you can plug into (which with solar, you may have). Extension cords won't power the thermostat - no way to plug them in.

I assume that, like a car, you would need to "turn them over" occasionally to keep the part from freezing in place. And you need to get fresh gasoline every month of two.

No. . . .but. . . .central heating and air conditioning requires a thermostat - which requires electricity to run. You could have nat gas and no way to burn it. Of course, if you have a fireplace, and gas logs in the fireplace. . . .and a match. . . .
 
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Patri

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As I mentioned, I would have been completely caught off guard had i not heard my kids teacher say on her Zoom class that the temperature was going to drop to 8 degrees.
Chalk one up for virtual learning!
 

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"... and in case you were wondering, OilPrice.com ran the numbers of how much it would cost to charge a Tesla in Texas earlier this week. While a regular charge costs around $18 using a Level 1 or Level 2 charger at home, estimates showed that the surge in power prices would have cost $900."

I'm guessing that electric cars are not selling in Texas now?
Without power, you can't pump gas either.

Those that were short sighted and signed up with Griddy had their 'savings' wiped out in one cold snap. Those that bought yearly contracts will see an increase next time they renew. Everybody is going to pay more because ERCOT is going to mandate winterization of the infrastructure.
 

DrQ

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One official not on the hot seat yet is the Texas Railroad Commissioner. That is the organization responsible for the pipes of natural gas and petroleum in Texas. That was where we had the epic fail.

The REAL source of the power cuts was the inability to pump natural gas or provide natural gas because of frozen valves.

Northern climes can deliver natural gas in similar or more severe conditions.

I think that's where we need to start.

We saw this in Feb 2011, we passed the Winterization Bill of 2011:

This legislation had no enforcement provisions. Maybe we will learn this time.
 

Ralph Sir Edward

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One official not on the hot seat yet is the Texas Railroad Commissioner. That is the organization responsible for the pipes of natural gas and petroleum in Texas. That was where we had the epic fail.

The REAL source of the power cuts was the inability to pump natural gas or provide natural gas because of frozen valves.

Northern climes can deliver natural gas in similar or more severe conditions.

I think that's where we need to start.

We saw this in Feb 2011, we passed the Winterization Bill of 2011:

This legislation had no enforcement provisions. Maybe we will learn this time.

Actually, the Texas Railroad Commission is a commission with multiple members, all elected. This may sound unbelievable, but I have already been discussing potential fixes with a relative who is involved with lobbying the RRC in the recent past. Not just the fixes, but how to sell them to the RRC members. Whether anything comes of it, who knows?
 
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bogey21

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Those that bought yearly contracts will see an increase next time they renew.

Yearly contracts, probably yes depending when contract matures. Back when I owned a single family home in Texas and was buying electricity there were times I signed up for 24 or 36 month Fixed Rate Plans. Often the rate charged for the longer term plans was only minutely higher that that of 12 month plans. My guess is that those with the most months left on their contacts will be impacted far less than those with only a month or two left on their contract...

George
 

Sandy VDH

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Last time I renewed I did it for 2 years. My contract is valid until July 2022.
 

DrQ

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Yearly contracts, probably yes depending when contract matures. Back when I owned a single family home in Texas and was buying electricity there were times I signed up for 24 or 36 month Fixed Rate Plans. Often the rate charged for the longer term plans was only minutely higher that that of 12 month plans. My guess is that those with the most months left on their contacts will be impacted far less than those with only a month or two left on their contract...

George
While you may be under contract from the provider, I will guarantee that the DELIVERY cost will increase before that term expires. That's where we're BOHICA.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Which did absolutely no good at all in this case. 4 inches of snow all over the panels blocks all sunlight. Zero electricity, unless you wanted to get on an icy, snowy roof and try to clear them by hand, at 15 F, on what would be cloudy days anyways. . .

Roofs didn't clear until today. How much battery could you afford, and now much Li-ion do you want inside of your house? (fire hazard!) Outside at that temperature reduced the storage by at least 1/2.

Beats paying up to $10k to the electric company. At least with a wall you get ROI because once installed all the electricity your roof generates is free. Can't say that for the electric company who will keep charging you forever. You also could minimize your home energy usage during downtimes and reserve the wall energy to power the thermostat to ignite your nat gas heater or use a space heater in a small room rather that heat the entire home.

Batteries no different than in your electric car in terms of safety. Battery tech is improving and prices are falling.


How much are you willing to pay for backup? Here's the Honda generator output/price sheet:


Starts at a $1,000 for 1000 watts and goes up - and up - and up. . . Then how are you going to use it? You can't use the existing wiring unless you are set up with an external inverter you can plug into (which with solar, you may have). Extension cords won't power the thermostat - no way to plug them in.

I assume that, like a car, you would need to "turn them over" occasionally to keep the part from freezing in place. And you need to get fresh gasoline every month of two.

No. . . .but. . . .central heating and air conditioning requires a thermostat - which requires electricity to run. You could have nat gas and no way to burn it. Of course, if you have a fireplace, and gas logs in the fireplace. . . .and a match. . . .

Agree, generators not great, but could start the furnace.

Battery wall with a fireplace is an alternative for emergencies, or solar with a link to the grid for those days when you absolutely need the power. Doubt multi-day outages from cold will happen again in TX.

With solar you have some control over your energy costs while realizing ROI for those many sunny TX days. Not sure how TX is set up for solar but in Calif any excess power we produce is purchased by the utility. Annually, at the end of the true-up period we received a several hundred dollar check from the utility. Not a great rate for the power we produce but utility customers benefit from low cost production and we get backup power for darkness/bad weather for free without having to invest in a powerwall. We haven't paid an electric bill since we installed - they pay us.

No alternatives are perfect but at least with our own solar, we have some control over our energy costs and usage. Our system has already paid for itself.
 
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Ralph Sir Edward

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From NOAA - a list of coldest day on record in various Texas cities.

Abilene.............9 below zero...set in 1947

Amarillo...........16 below zero...set in 1899

Austin..............2 below zero...set in 1949

Beaumont……..10 degrees......set in 1906

Brownsville........12 degrees......set in 1899

Corpus Christi.....11 degrees......set in 1899

Dallas/Fort Worth....8 below zero...set in 1899

Del Rio............10 degrees......set in 1989

El Paso.............8 below zero...set in 1962

Galveston...........8 degrees..... Set in 1899

Houston.............5 degrees......set in 1930 and 1940

Lubbock............17 below zero...set in 1933

Midland/Odessa.....11 below zero...set in 1985

San Angelo..........4 below zero...set in 1989

San Antonio.........0 degrees......set in 1949

Waco................5 below zero...set in 1949 and 1899

Wichita Falls......12 below zero...set in 1947

Source - weather.gov/maf/The_Coldest_Night_in_Texas#:~:text=February%201899%20was%20a%20very%20cold%20month%2C%20thanks,Texas%20occurred%20on%20February%2012th%20of%20that%20year.

In 1899, parts of Galveston Bay had ice on it. Considered the biggest cold spell in Texas. Bigger than this one.
 
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