How are TX Tuggers making out?

[Sandy VDH]

I just got power back after a rotating blackout that lasted 21 hours. Power was off from late afternoon yesterday to early afternoon today. So much for rotating.

I live in the Houston area. Outside temperature low was 12F (-11C) overnight last night. House got down to 52F (11C). Power finally came back on and I am heating up the house expecting the power to be shut off again.

So much for green power, it is a large portion of wind generators that are frozen and are contributing to a large portion of the power shortfall in the TX grid, that is forcing rotating power outages. Other equipment is failing in the extreme cold and that is also contributing to the power shortage as well.

Stay warm Texas Tuggers. TX is just not equiped to handle this extreme cold.

 

[mentalbreak]

Wow. Hang in there.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

I'm embarrassed to say I'm doing fine. No blackout at my house. Lots of places around me have problems, but somehow, not my little neighborhood.

Low last night was 2 F in my back yard,

 

[bogey21]

At my CCRC we have power for about 7 hours daily. Basically I'm fine. Food service is adequate under the circumstances...

The reason we have problems in Texas is that 1/4 of our electricity comes from windmills which are frozen and thus not producing electricity. Clearly my support for the Green Economy is now approaching zero...

George

 

[Sandy VDH]

In the Houston area alone currently 1.3 Million households with NO power according to centerpoint the company that manages most distribution in this area.

 

[Rolltydr]

I don’t have a dog in this fight so please don’t shoot the messenger. After reading the initial post, I knew I had seen an article this morning that disputed frozen windmills were the main cause of the power outages in Texas. Although, it is true that many were frozen, it also appears there were freeze problems affecting most electricity producers in the state, regardless of type. According to this article, the windmill issue is only responsible for 13% of the total outages.

Are frozen wind turbines to blame for Texas power outages?

More than 4.2 million people left without power following winter storm Uri

www.independent.co.uk

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

To all the Texans and others who may be experiencing severe cold weather; Don't forget to leave all your faucets running to help prevent frozen pipes should you lose your heat source.

Frozen pipes are not what you want to deal with if you can possibly avoid it.....


.

 

[Passepartout]

Good advice on leaving faucets running a little. The nation and the world's thoughts are with Texas now.

Jim

 

[DannyTS]

I don’t have a dog in this fight so please don’t shoot the messenger. After reading the initial post, I knew I had seen an article this morning that disputed frozen windmills were the main cause of the power outages in Texas. Although, it is true that many were frozen, it also appears there were freeze problems affecting most electricity producers in the state, regardless of type. According to this article, the windmill issue is only responsible for 13% of the total outages.

Are frozen wind turbines to blame for Texas power outages?

More than 4.2 million people left without power following winter storm Uri

www.independent.co.uk

This seems to be contradicted by other articles. Yes, some gas plants were not running properly but only due to blackouts so the gas generators are not the root cause of the problem.

First, some power plants may not have been operational due to routine maintenance, Cohan said. Peak demand typically occurs in the summer, so it's not unexpected for a coal or natural gas plant to be offline in an effort to tune up for the warmer months.
Second, some power plants may have failed to operate in the cold, Cohan said. "Plants are optimized to run under our typical and our extreme summer conditions but they aren't as well prepared and engineered for extreme cold," he said.

According to Rai, if plants operate for too long in too extreme of conditions, it could be too costly to operate as well as cause damage to the equipment, which could further exacerbate the outages for longer periods of time.

Third, some natural gas plants may not have been able to get adequate supply of gas to be converted into electricity, Cohan said. Unlike a coal plant that has an ready stockpile, natural gas plants don't store as much on site, meaning any disruption at the supply source will lead to a disruption in turning on the lights.

Carey King, an assistant director and research scientist at the Energy Institute at the University of Texas at Austin, said it's possible that power outages at natural gas production sites lead to failures in the electric compressors that move the gas.

'Massive failure': Why are millions of people in Texas still without power?

Extreme cold winter weather led to power outages and rolling blackouts in Texas. Here's why it happened.

www.usatoday.com

 

[bogey21]

That article is bull shit. Articles like the one you site are written by people with an agenda. Live down here and you won't be so damn cavalier. And by the way solar won't bail us out. There has been hardly any sunlight either...

Try going 24 hours dressed like an eskimo in my apartmentwith no heat, no lights, eating cold food, no TV, no Internet, etc. All at practically zero temperature. Monday we got heat for 7 hours most of it while sleeping. Today is a little better as a good bit of our 7 hours with electricity has been during waking hours. Some hospitals are closed because of freezing pipes. For the same reason many residences don't have running water. People are dying from carbon monoxide because they were sleeping in their cars to keep warm. Other had to go to "Warming Centers" to live...

Before we get totally dependent on wind and solar someone needs to figure this out...

George

 

[bluehende]

That article is bull shit. Articles like the one you site are written by people with an agenda. Live down here and you won't be so damn cavalier. And by the way solar won't bail us out. There has been hardly any sunlight either...

Try going 24 hours dressed like an eskimo in my apartmentwith no heat, no lights, eating cold food, no TV, no Internet, etc. All at practically zero temperature. Monday we got heat for 7 hours most of it while sleeping. Today is a little better as a good bit of our 7 hours with electricity has been during waking hours. Some hospitals are closed because of freezing pipes. For the same reason many residences don't have running water. People are dying from carbon monoxide because they were sleeping in their cars to keep warm. Other had to go to "Warming Centers" to live...

Before we get totally dependent on wind and solar someone needs to figure this out...

George

Appears the messenger was shot.



A lot of agenda out there,' Even from the operators themselves. From the article

ERCOT acknowledges that frozen wind turbines have played a role, but that frozen instruments at natural gas, coal and nuclear facilities and a limited supply of natural gas are the main factors.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/02/16/nation/why-is-power-out-much-texas-frozen-wind-farms-are-just-small-piece-puzzle/\\

Frozen Wind Farms Are Just a Small Piece of Texas’s Power Woes

Don’t point too many fingers at Texas wind turbines, because they’re not the main reason broad swaths of the state have been plunged into darkness.

www.bloomberg.com

Frozen wind turbines are one culprit in Texas’s power outages

Ice has forced some turbines to shut down just as a brutal cold wave drives record electricity demand.

fortune.com

And in case you just read the headline

Don’t point too many fingers at Texas wind turbines, because they’re not the main reason broad swaths of the state have been plunged into darkness.


While ice has forced some turbines to shut down just as a brutal cold wave drives record electricity demand, wind only comprises 25% of the state’s energy mix this time of year. The majority of outages overnight were plants fueled by natural gas, coal and nuclear, which together make up more than two-thirds of power generation during winter.

Don’t Blame Wind Turbines for Texas' Massive Power Outages

Blackouts have spread from Texas across the Great Plains, reigniting the debate about the reliability of wind and solar power

time.com

 

[bluehende]

Antarctica opens its largest wind farm

The world’s southern-most continent received its largest wind farm, powering antarctic stations Scott Base from New Zealand and the US McMurdo Station. The farm has three wind turbines, whereas Antarctica’s only other wind farm at Australia’s Mawson Station, only has two. The farm sits on the...

www.windpowerengineering.com

 

[DannyTS]

Antarctica opens its largest wind farm

The world’s southern-most continent received its largest wind farm, powering antarctic stations Scott Base from New Zealand and the US McMurdo Station. The farm has three wind turbines, whereas Antarctica’s only other wind farm at Australia’s Mawson Station, only has two. The farm sits on the...

www.windpowerengineering.com

did you read the article?

These specific turbines have been specifically engineered to endure the cold (temperatures can drop to as low as -76 Fahrenheit), and they tried to avoid using as many moving parts as possible; hence, these turbines do not have gearboxes.


Depending on how well these turbines perform, Scott Base and McMurdo Station that this wind farm very well could be the start of many.

 

[HitchHiker71]

When you look at energy generation pragmatically - the type of generation has little to do with the current climate in your respective area. There are wind farms in some of the coldest parts of the world that run constantly throughout the year. There are coal and natural gas plants that run just fine year round (exception for routine maintenance), in the northern most parts of the US and Canada. There are northern plains states that produce more renewable energy than Texas for example. When we look at the reported issues objectively - we will come to realize that the power companies in Texas don’t have equipment hardened to endure colder climates - in fact Texas has chosen to implement equipment meant to work in high heat conditions - since that is often the bigger challenge for the state of Texas. The polar vortex that Texas is currently experiencing is something the northern states endure every day without any power generation issues. But that’s not the whole story, there’s a critical piece missing.

Texas is also the only state in the union that isn’t connected to the federal power grids like most other states. There’s literally the western grid, the eastern grid, and the Texas grid. Typically when something like this happens in other parts of the country - the local power utilities can buy peak power from other utility companies in adjacent states and use the grid to transfer power to meet critical demand. Because of the choices that Texans have made to remain independent from the federal power grids - this is what happens when the local utility providers experience infrastructure failures and have no ability to buy power from others connected to the federal power grids. Perhaps Texas will reconsider the energy grid choices made historically in this regard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rolltydr]

That article is bull shit. Articles like the one you site are written by people with an agenda. Live down here and you won't be so damn cavalier. And by the way solar won't bail us out. There has been hardly any sunlight either...

Try going 24 hours dressed like an eskimo in my apartmentwith no heat, no lights, eating cold food, no TV, no Internet, etc. All at practically zero temperature. Monday we got heat for 7 hours most of it while sleeping. Today is a little better as a good bit of our 7 hours with electricity has been during waking hours. Some hospitals are closed because of freezing pipes. For the same reason many residences don't have running water. People are dying from carbon monoxide because they were sleeping in their cars to keep warm. Other had to go to "Warming Centers" to live...

Before we get totally dependent on wind and solar someone needs to figure this out...

George

I live in Alabama so I‘m not sure how much farther “down here” I need to go. I’m very sorry about your situation but I was just trying to point out that the windmills might not be the only issue. Hitchhiker provided some more detailed information so I won’t repeat it. You made clear you disagreed with the article but you didn’t provide any facts that disputed the article. If you believe the numbers stated in the article are wrong, please provide some that support your position. Otherwise, you’re just stating your opinion. Which is fine, it just doesn’t mean the article is, indeed, inaccurate.

 

[Talent312]

From the horses mouth...

Officials for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or ERCOT, which manages most of Texas’ grid, said that the primary cause of the outages on Tuesday appeared to be the state’s natural gas providers. Many are not designed to withstand such low temperatures on equipment or during production. By some estimates, nearly half of the state’s natural gas production has screeched to a halt due to the extremely low temperatures, while freezing components at natural gas-fired power plants have forced some operators to shut down.

An official with ERCOT said Tuesday afternoon that 16 gigawatts of renewable energy generation, mostly wind generation, was offline. Nearly double that, 30 gigawatts, had been lost from thermal sources, which includes gas, coal and nuclear energy. ERCOT president Bill Magness said some wind turbine generators were iced, but nearly twice as much power was wiped out at natural gas and coal plants.

-- Source: Texas Tribune & ABC News

 

[DannyTS]

Many wind turbines are programmed to shut off during high winds or very cold weather to avoid mechanical failure.

 

[Passepartout]

When all the dust settles, I think it will be shown that the Texas deregulated electric power grid is the culprit. Wind turbines work in Canada, Scandinavia, even Antarctica. With proper preparation and maintenance, they'll work in Texas too.

Jim

 

[Sandy VDH]

Since I am the OP, I'm not pointing fingers but want solutions.

I have at least 4 friend with burst water pipes, causing a whole house worth of damage. And those are the ones who I have been texting in the last 48 hours. Could be a much larger number. Someone in my 75 house 5 street gated community has had a pipe burst too. I guess I got a slightly more insulated or better built house than others. Thankfully, but this would never happen up north, as houses are built to prevent this. Only downed lines would cause an outage not a shortage of KW hours.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

When you look at energy generation pragmatically - the type of generation has little to do with the current climate in your respective area. There are wind farms in some of the coldest parts of the world that run constantly throughout the year. There are coal and natural gas plants that run just fine year round (exception for routine maintenance), in the northern most parts of the US and Canada. There are northern plains states that produce more renewable energy than Texas for example. When we look at the reported issues objectively - we will come to realize that the power companies in Texas don’t have equipment hardened to endure colder climates - in fact Texas has chosen to implement equipment meant to work in high heat conditions - since that is often the bigger challenge for the state of Texas. The polar vortex that Texas is currently experiencing is something the northern states endure every day without any power generation issues. But that’s not the whole story, there’s a critical piece missing.

Texas is also the only state in the union that isn’t connected to the federal power grids like most other states. There’s literally the western grid, the eastern grid, and the Texas grid. Typically when something like this happens in other parts of the country - the local power utilities can buy peak power from other utility companies in adjacent states and use the grid to transfer power to meet critical demand. Because of the choices that Texans have made to remain independent from the federal power grids - this is what happens when the local utility providers experience infrastructure failures and have no ability to buy power from others connected to the federal power grids. Perhaps Texas will reconsider the energy grid choices made historically in this regard.


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Or perhaps not, Look at the range and scope of the 1964 and the 1989 east coast and midwest blackouts. This has been relatively kept under control, with no total total shutdown like those instances.

This cold burst is the coldest in at least 70 years (colder than 1983) but not as bad as the "great grandaddy of them all", the 1899 winter, when Galveston Bay froze over.

The Texas system is not hardened enough for a once in 100 year cold spell, granted. OTOH, it is hard to keep up with infrastructure with continual population growth (Which Texas has been getting for the last 2 decades).

Of course, I remember Chicago a couple of decades ago, and the great heat wave that killed over 1,000 people. Chicago wasn't hardened or an extreme heat wave either. (I also remember that big heat wave on the east coast, and the rolling blackouts it triggered.

 

[DrQ]

Texas is also the only state in the union that isn’t connected to the federal power grids like most other states. There’s literally the western grid, the eastern grid, and the Texas grid. Typically when something like this happens in other parts of the country - the local power utilities can buy peak power from other utility companies in adjacent states and use the grid to transfer power to meet critical demand. Because of the choices that Texans have made to remain independent from the federal power grids - this is what happens when the local utility providers experience infrastructure failures and have no ability to buy power from others connected to the federal power grids. Perhaps Texas will reconsider the energy grid choices made historically in this regard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With the extent of the cold wave, I don't think that we could have begged borrowed or stole power for the national grid.

ERCOT got caught with its pants down in starting up gas powered electrical generation plant in single digit conditions. 20 20 hindsight, but they should have been spinning up the plants before it got really cold. Texas is used to bringing additional power online in 100+ weather, 5 degrees, not so much.

One thing I read is that the wind power is usually reduced during the winter, so the numbers being quoted for the loss of power may be optimistic.

 

[krj9999]

You can equip wind turbines with cold weather packages (down to minus 20 F) and de-icing systems. Least cost solution isn't always the best approach.

Texas electric grid was at the mercy of cold weather - The Washington Post

 

[DrQ]

Of course, I remember Chicago a couple of decades ago, and the great heat wave that killed over 1,000 people. Chicago wasn't hardened or an extreme heat wave either. (I also remember that big heat wave on the east coast, and the rolling blackouts it triggered.

We lived though the winter of '79. If I remember correctly ... 90 consecutive days below freezing and 30 consecutive days below zero.

 

[DrQ]

You can equip wind turbines with cold weather packages (down to minus 20 F) and de-icing systems. Least cost solution isn't always the best approach.

Texas electric grid was at the mercy of cold weather - The Washington Post

But the question is cost/reward. We don't build for the 100 year storm. Do we take that money and invest in capacity to use in 100+ weather?

 

[HitchHiker71]

With the extent of the cold wave, I don't think that we could have begged borrowed or stole power for the national grid.

ERCOT got caught with its pants down in starting up gas powered electrical generation plant in single digit conditions. 20 20 hindsight, but they should have been spinning up the plants before it got really cold. Texas is used to bringing additional power online in 100+ weather, 5 degrees, not so much.

One thing I read is that the wind power is usually reduced during the winter, so the numbers being quoted for the loss of power may be optimistic.

It’s hard to say - the power grids in both the east and west aren’t running at peak power during the winter months so there is peak power capability in both grids that could be spun up to help. Even a partial restoration of power via grid transfer right now for those affected would make a huge difference. A three stranded cord is stronger than a single stranded cord type thing.

I totally agree that the focus in Texas has been on hardening for heat as opposed to cold. I just hope this is a once in 100 years cold snap and not a harbinger of things to come as it relates to climate change.

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