II unit size upgrade fees

[CCR]

There is still a significant difference when I compare what my studio deposit and my 1 bedroom deposit can see. Please note this is a high demand 4th of July week I've deposited that should be able to see lots of inventory if based on the TDI. I noticed this year that the destination points required to book the 4th of July week in Park City became very expensive.


I think those people worried that the floodgates are totally open can relax. I can see a Boston Custom House unit for Christmas week with my 1 bedroom unit but not with my studio. I also can see several two bedrooms for 2016 and 2017 with my 1 bedroom available at Canyon Villas but not with my studio (I mostly see 1 bedrooms or studios). Same with Park City for next summer. I can see 2 bedrooms with 1 bedroom deposit but can't see them with my studio.

I did notice there immediately was more available & visible with my Marriott studio deposit with the change. I'm happy about seeing more as I like to try to get airfare early. I had been searching Arizona and Vegas planning a spring break trip the day before these changes happened so immediately noticed many more units available. Studios are picking up more but not as much as people with bigger units will see.

The late August Kauai 1 bedrooms were not visible with my studio until this change happened.

 

[VacationForever]

Yes. But studios are picking up inventory that they were not able to see before. The Oct-Dec NCV weeks that were not visible before to studios were there for the past couple of weeks, just disappeared today.

 

[youppi]

Yes. But studios are picking up inventory that they were not able to see before. The Oct-Dec NCV weeks that were not visible before to studios were there for the past couple of weeks, just disappeared today.

It has been reported in the past that an OGS gave more trading power. Same thing when you call. May be they have just gave this little boost to manual search (equalized the TP between all this kind of search, manual,OGS and call)

 

[Big Matt]

If this is the case, then I'd gladly pay $198 to get a 2BR with a studio that wouldn't see it before the fee change.

I did notice that they also removed some of the quality filters. My Marriott can now see resorts that it never could before.

I think all of this is positive. It gives me more options.

Over in the II Community forums, many have reported that their studios can see a lot more inventory.

 

[Old Hickory]

If this is the case, then I'd gladly pay $198 to get a 2BR with a studio that wouldn't see it before the fee change.

I did notice that they also removed some of the quality filters. My Marriott can now see resorts that it never could before.

I think all of this is positive. It gives me more options.

This can't the true.

It's the end of the world.... I just know it! :rofl:

 

[klpca]

Yes. But studios are picking up inventory that they were not able to see before. The Oct-Dec NCV weeks that were not visible before to studios were there for the past couple of weeks, just disappeared today.

I would think that this was part of the motivation. Get those weeks booked - all the better with additional fees.

 

[kds4]

We are principally 'uptraders' with II. So, this was a slap in the face to us. I already pay an annual membership fee, and a transaction fee every time I exercise that membership. Now, they want me to pay a 3rd fee that for a Studio to 3BR uptrade will drive my exchange fee from $129 to over $300 ... That is offensive.

I get that I can still make like for like exchanges at current rates. I get that I can make a flexchange uptrade at current rates, (assuming that time frame works for us in the future). I get that II may just be doing/charging what others (RCI) already are. Etc., Etc., Etc.

Unfortunately, there is no 'spin' that is going to change the reality that II is trying to collect more than twice as much from me to make the same exchanges that I have been making for the past 6 years of my membership. And since they are not making this change due to some increase in 'business costs', it smacks of the worst form of motive ... Greed.

I hope owners will refuse to pay this new 'profit' fee. I certainly will be, assuming we choose to renew our membership and not just exchange internally through Marriott via the DC points system or Florida Club.

If II had a room, I would send them to it so they can think about what they have done.

Well, I stand partially corrected in my prior posts on this topic. Turns out that II is actually 'cutting me a break' by only charging an extra $177 to uptrade to a 3BR using a studio. After a little more researching, I found out that this fee of $59 per uptrade 'step' (per BR) is actually the Platinum reduced rate. If you're a Gold member, the rate is $79 per step.

If you are a regular member, the uptrade fee is $99 per 'step' (Studio to 1BR is 1 step. Each additional BR you uptrade to is an additional step. Studio to 2Br is 2 steps, etc.). So, if you are a regular II member and want to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR the cost is $129 plus $99x3 (or $297) in additional 'uptrade' fees.

$129 + $297 = $426 to make an exchange (not counting your annual membership fee)?

Stop the insanity...!!!

 

[youppi]

Well, I stand partially corrected in my prior posts on this topic. Turns out that II is actually 'cutting me a break' by only charging an extra $177 to uptrade to a 3BR using a studio. After a little more researching, I found out that this fee of $59 per uptrade 'step' (per BR) is actually the Platinum reduced rate. If you're a Gold member, the rate is $79 per step.

If you are a regular member, the uptrade fee is $99 per 'step' (Studio to 1BR is 1 step. Each additional BR you uptrade to is an additional step. Studio to 2Br is 2 steps, etc.). So, if you are a regular II member and want to uptrade from a studio to a 3BR the cost is $129 plus $99x3 (or $297) in additional 'uptrade' fees.

$129 + $297 = $426 to make an exchange (not counting your annual membership fee)?

Stop the insanity...!!!

It could be worse. Marriott's could ask II to remove the 3 weeks preferred window, remove perk gave to enrolled owners (free lock-off, free fee to exchange M2M). HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).

 

[kds4]

It could be worse. Marriott's could ask II to remove the 3 weeks preferred window, remove perk gave to enrolled owners (free lock-off, free fee to exchange M2M). HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).

I'm no expert, but wonder if that would be allowed under the governing docs (either under the Trust docs or for Weeks owners). Anyone with more experience have thoughts?

 

[SueDonJ]

It could be worse. Marriott's could ask II to remove the 3 weeks preferred window, remove perk gave to enrolled owners (free lock-off, free fee to exchange M2M). HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).

I'm no expert, but wonder if that would be allowed under the governing docs (either under the Trust docs or for Weeks owners). Anyone with more experience have thoughts?

As far as the terms set between II and Marriott, yes, they probably can be changed simply upon renewal/restructure of their affiliation contract.

Weeks MF's structures are a different story. The majority of states mandate that MF's must be uniform across all seasons so Marriott is bound by those limitations. They and the other timeshare companies could lobby to change those mandates but as far as we know there hasn't ever been a push towards it.

(The MF's structure for DC Trust Points has the demand-based variance built in, considering that it costs more Points to book the higher-demand intervals.)

 

[davidvel]

Next Lawsuit

Waiting for the next lawsuit vs. Marriott: "Plaintiff paid $2,399 to enroll its weeks into the DC club, with Marriott promising to pay all II fees..."

 

[taffy19]

How many years are left?

Marriott renewed their contract with II for 5 years. Does anyone know when that runs out? ILG is supposedly working on a Pure Points System that was mentioned here before under a Hyatt thread where you should be able to find it.

ILG owns the Hyatt Residence Club brand and the Westin and Sheraton Clubs (VSE) too now. Isn't the purchase price based today on what week you buy and the size of the unit plus the view?

I asked the Hyatt if they will have that same system going forward when they start selling new locations too. Our salesman didn't know but one would think that they will start streamlining their sales and exchange departments going forward eventually?

Will the Marriott sign a new agreement with them and join the other hotel based systems in regard to making exchanges?

Also, we gave up our Marriott (MRPs) CC a long time ago and got a new offer to sign up again for a very generous amount of Bonus Points and also a once a year free night at a Marriott resort but i don't remember what tier it was.

I noticed that the points we would earn no longer had the MRPs logo so is that new too? It looks to me that many changes are coming.

It is also mentioned here that the Hilton is selling or spinning off something too but they are with RCI, i believe.

 

[greenfrog]

Has Interval acknowledged or explained the rationale behind this decision yet ?

 

[Mr. Vker]

I did learn today that if you have E-Trade plus on an existing exchange prior to this fee going into place, you don't have to pay upgrade fees on those transactions. Call II to get them waived. This comes from an II Marriott rep this morning.

 

[tschwa2]

I did learn today that if you have E-Trade plus on an existing exchange prior to this fee going into place, you don't have to pay upgrade fees on those transactions. Call II to get them waived. This comes from an II Marriott rep this morning.

For eplus you don't need to call to get them waived, it is already programmed so that current exchanges that have eplus don't have the fee.

Enrolled members making a retrade is a different story and do have the fees and your explanation from the agent doesn't seem like the waiver would apply to non-eplus retrades.

 

[Mr. Vker]

For eplus you don't need to call to get them waived, it is already programmed so that current exchanges that have eplus don't have the fee.

Enrolled members making a retrade is a different story and do have the fees and your explanation from the agent doesn't seem like the waiver would apply to non-eplus retrades.

I just read that in the II forum. This rep said to call Glad II has everything lined up.

 

[bazzap]

Has Interval acknowledged or explained the rationale behind this decision yet ?

Just because they can is effectively the answer I received!
To make more money is the only logical explanation.

 

[BocaBoy]

That's another possibility but, using points carries a built in upgrade fee if you will. I don't particularly see it as an incentive to use points over weeks exchanges.

I think it is a huge incentive to do just that.

 

[BocaBoy]

While I understand the natural reaction that people are expressing in this thread, it also seems like a lot of people have a sense of entitlement around continuing to be able to trade a studio for a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom. At the end of the day, if the $99 per upgrade is not worth it, you should absolutely vote with your pocketbook and not do the trade.

II is a corporation. They will only revert back to their prior methodology if they see a revenue decline. The fact that II is looking to increase their profit margins seems to be making people mad when this type of action is what most companies are doing. I expect that we will all adapt and adjust. We will figure out new ways to get maximum value out of our timeshares and II exchanges. It is somewhat ludicrous to read that some people will stop exchanging or use RCI. Go ahead and do it if that creates more value for you, but I suspect that people will pay the fee because the value in exchanging into a Marriott or Hilton or Hyatt and upgrading from 1 BR to 2 BR is still a great deal even with the additional fee.

Go ahead and vent since it is likely cathartic and somewhat entertaining to read. But lets not get carried away and say that II has suddenly lost huge value simply because of a new fee.

I agree with all of this.

 

[BocaBoy]

HOA could stop charging the same MF whatever the season (charge more for peak season or better view, and less for low season to follow the point system. Example: if at a resort the MF is $2000 now than peak season could pay $2500, low season $1500 and mid season $2000).

This can't be done legally. And it makes more sense for all seasons to have the same maintenance fees because you have to think of it as the costs of ownership, which don't differ much if at all between seasons. The purchase price of the week is where the seasonal differences come into play.

It is much the same as maintenance fees for a full ownership condo, which are based on size of the unit and NOT on its location withing the building. Why? Because higher floors or better views do not change the COSTS of ownership. These differences are reflected in the unit's market value.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

This can't be done legally. And it makes more sense for all seasons to have the same maintenance fees because you have to think of it as the costs of ownership, which don't differ much if at all between seasons. The purchase price of the week is where the seasonal differences come into play.

It is much the same as maintenance fees for a full ownership condo, which are based on size of the unit and NOT on its location withing the building. Why? Because higher floors or better views do not change the COSTS of ownership. These differences are reflected in the unit's market value.

This is the truth and also why many developers prefer a points based system where manipulation is legal.

 

[SueDonJ]

This can't be done legally. And it makes more sense for all seasons to have the same maintenance fees because you have to think of it as the costs of ownership, which don't differ much if at all between seasons. The purchase price of the week is where the seasonal differences come into play.

It is much the same as maintenance fees for a full ownership condo, which are based on size of the unit and NOT on its location withing the building. Why? Because higher floors or better views do not change the COSTS of ownership. These differences are reflected in the unit's market value.

I posted something similar already but then realized that there are exceptions in the property tax components as noted in the MF sticky threads:

"*Note that Property Taxes for the Florida resorts will vary according to the Resort Calendar seasons, and are included in the MF budgets.
*Note that Property Taxes for the California resorts will vary among owners based on purchase price/date, and are billed separately by the counties."

Other than those two US states, all of the others in which Marriott has resorts mandate that all owners of same-size units must pay equal MF's. I don't know if it's mandated the same at the Euro/Caribbean resorts but it is how Marriott bills MF's there as well.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I understand your point but really the tax is not the maintenance fee. Florida law requires the maintenance fee be the same so they are not an exception. They do not recognize that their own taxing authority is part of the fee but it is required to be billed as a pass through.

 

[youppi]

I looked at how much a DC trust points owner would paid if he exchanged with II using the grid based on TDI and size with MF at around $0.50 per points.
Grand Luxxe Jul 7, 2017 - Jul 14, 2017 TDI 115-135
studio, 1 bdrm, 2 bdrm, 3 bdrm
1750, 2750, 4000, 5000 pts
$875, $1375, $2000, $2500
Diff between studio and 3 bdrm = $1625

Grand Luxxe Aug 13, 2017 - Aug 20, 2017 TDI 90-110
1500, 2250, 3000, 4000 pts
$750, $1125, $1500, $2000
Diff between studio and 3 bdrm = $1250

Grand Luxxe Aug 27, 2017 - September 03, 2017 TDI 50-85
1000, 1500, 2250, 3000 pts
$500, $750, $1125, $1500
Diff between studio and 3 bdrm = $1000

So, at 3x$99=$297 is still way cheaper than trust points owners.

 

[dioxide45]

I think the major flaw in the unit size upgrade fee is areas of over supply. Does it really make sense to charge a fee for a larger unit in places like Orlando, HHI and Wiliamsburg during slow season? I wonder if II will ever have specials where they offer a $0 upgrade fee in these types of places.