[ 2013 ] Bicycle Computers? Advice, please.

[heathpack]

Update on the Garmin

Ive been meaning for awhile to come back and post a follow-up on the Garmin and I was reading through the old posts. I have been bitten badly by the cycling bug and lol on the question "how many miles can you really ride in a year?". The answer to that is my case is 3000 and i don't even consider that to be a lot. My first century (100 mi) ride is this coming Saturday. I have trained a lot for it though, including training rides of 75, 80 and 93 miles, so I'm feeling pretty good about it. I am totally intrigued by the whole training process and can't even conceive of riding without my Garmin and associated data. I even really want to buy a power meter (a better training tool than HR monitor) but I am in the process of buying a fancy new bike and don't want to spend the money or take the time to research yet another piece of bike equipment.

So the bottom line is: For me, the Garmin is an indispensable training tool. HR, speed and cadence sensors are critical numbers that I track throughout my rides and also on my stationary trainer (well, not speed on the trainer). The ability to upload data to your personal page on the Garmin site and then later analyze that data in all sorts of ways is also crucial when you are training a little more formally like I am. The GPS mapping feature is of zero use to me, it turns out. But what I did not realize when I bought the Garmin is that the GPS feature allows me to send an email link to anyone I want and then that person can track me in real time. This is very important when I do long rides alone, Mr. H can track my progress and "keep and eye on me". So it turns out I bought exactly the best unit for me, even though I kind of lucked into it.

So two thumbs up on the Garmin, at least for cyclists who want to train for an event.

H

 

[persia]

COuldn't you just use a phone app?

 

[heathpack]

COuldn't you just use a phone app?

No, you can't.

Won't measure your heart rate. Won't measure your cadence (pedal speed). Won't measure your elevation (the Garmin has an altimeter).

Say for example, your primary consideration is building aerobic endurance (the first thing you build as a cyclist). You need to ride at a heart rate that reflects a relatively low effort for you for many many miles. You want to ride these high volume miles at a high cadence. If your effort is too high, your training is counter-productive at that stage of your conditioning.

Say next you are going to ride an event with lots of big hill climbs. Now you need to train for hill climbing. Your cadence will be of necessity lower, but if it's too low, that's a sign you are pushing your pedals too hard and you risk injury, especially to your knees. You need to downshift or find a less steep hill to train on. Your heart rate will be higher and if your effort goes past a certain point (somewhat reflected by your heart rate), you will switch into anaerobic metabolism, which results in accumulation of lactic acid in your muscles. You cannot work much longer at the effort level, your muscles will become dysfunctional after a certain amt of lactic acid builds up. So again you must downshift or otherwise decrease your effort.

You need to know all these variables as you are riding, plus the thing ou are attempting to accomplish in that particular training session. You will not get the necessary data points from a phone app.

H

 

[Phydeaux]

No, you can't.

Won't measure your heart rate. Won't measure your cadence (pedal speed). Won't measure your elevation (the Garmin has an altimeter).

Say for example, your primary consideration is building aerobic endurance (the first thing you build as a cyclist). You need to ride at a heart rate that reflects a relatively low effort for you for many many miles. You want to ride these high volume miles at a high cadence. If your effort is too high, your training is counter-productive at that stage of your conditioning.

Say next you are going to ride an event with lots of big hill climbs. Now you need to train for hill climbing. Your cadence will be of necessity lower, but if it's too low, that's a sign you are pushing your pedals too hard and you risk injury, especially to your knees. You need to downshift or find a less steep hill to train on. Your heart rate will be higher and if your effort goes past a certain point (somewhat reflected by your heart rate), you will switch into anaerobic metabolism, which results in accumulation of lactic acid in your muscles. You cannot work much longer at the effort level, your muscles will become dysfunctional after a certain amt of lactic acid builds up. So again you must downshift or otherwise decrease your effort.

You need to know all these variables as you are riding, plus the thing ou are attempting to accomplish in that particular training session. You will not get the necessary data points from a phone app.

H

And don't forget seat height and positioning.

Sorry, good information. Good stuff.

It's just that I see so many well intentioned riders with the latest gear and tech, and their seats and riding position are absolutely so dead wrong. You want to shout at them "raise your bloody seat!!"

And remember, pedal in circles. Very few riders do/can. If there was only one thing you could do to improve your cycling aside from your aerobic capacity, it would be that.

 

[Ridewithme38]

This sounds really complicated and over involved. Have you considered buying a car instead? It will help avoid wear and tear on your joints/knees and body and can get you places much easier and in a more relaxed state.

 

[heathpack]

And don't forget seat height and positioning.

Sorry, good information. Good stuff.

It's just that I see so many well intentioned riders with the latest gear and tech, and their seats and riding position are absolutely so dead wrong. You want to shout at them "raise your bloody seat!!"

And remember, pedal in circles. Very few riders do/can. If there was only one thing you could do to improve your cycling aside from your aerobic capacity, it would be that.

Phydeaux, my bike fit is *perfect* (and believe me it wasn't for a long time so I know the difference). I have the worlds best bike fitter. Yes that's what he does 100% of the time and not in a bike shop trying to sell you anything, either. Just does fittings.

The process was rather fascinating & to me extraordinary. I had what is called a prepurchase dynamic fitting. The point is to determine what candidate bikes you should be shopping for based on frame geometry.

You start with a physical assessment- range of motion, limb length, foot shape, angulation of your limbs. Then your arch shape is tested. He looks at your shoes and your cleat position.

Next you hop on your own bike on a trainer. First he videos you. Then he puts LED sensors on your joints and you get a 3D motion capture video that turns you into a stick figure. Then every movement of every joint is captured as you pedal (this is what makes it a dynamic fitting as opposed to the usual static fitting).

Then you get off your bike and get onto this contraption that is an adjustable bike. He can dial in any frame geometry, bar position, seat position, crank length, etc desired. We started with the frame geometry of my primary candidate bike. Then he tweaks various parameters on the bike, has you pedal away and asks you "better or worse?" just like at the eye doctor, all the while measuring your power output to see if you're making choices that actually would be expected to result in better performance. Still with the LED sensors so more 3D motion capture, stick figures, analysis of every joint position during every moment of your pedal stroke.

Finally when you're done, he sets up your current bike as ideally as possible. You get a report with the best candidate bikes in your price range. Then the idea is you go shopping. Except I'd already been shopping and was in love with a bike which fortunately he said is an excellent choice. For me, I am getting the new bike with shorter than usual cranks, narrow compact bars, and a slightly wider saddle. Once you get your new bike, you go back for your final fitting and then for as many more as you need to get it right.

All this is taking place in the LA Velodrome, where the US and Canadian National teams are doing interval training. And elite riders keep stopping by to ask a quick question. Why? Because he is also the filter for both the US & Canadian national teams.

The very next day after my fitting, I started ticking off all kinds of "personal bests". Really this guy has improved my cycling so much just in one afternoon. And even though I say my fit is perfect, he says it's not & won't be until the new bike. Which allegedly will be just a few more weeks.

H

 

[Phydeaux]

Phydeaux, my bike fit is *perfect* (and believe me it wasn't for a long time so I know the difference). I have the worlds best bike fitter. Yes that's what he does 100% of the time and not in a bike shop trying to sell you anything, either. Just does fittings.

The process was rather fascinating & to me extraordinary. I had what is called a prepurchase dynamic fitting. The point is to determine what candidate bikes you should be shopping for based on frame geometry.

You start with a physical assessment- range of motion, limb length, foot shape, angulation of your limbs. Then your arch shape is tested. He looks at your shoes and your cleat position.

Next you hop on your own bike on a trainer. First he videos you. Then he puts LED sensors on your joints and you get a 3D motion capture video that turns you into a stick figure. Then every movement of every joint is captured as you pedal (this is what makes it a dynamic fitting as opposed to the usual static fitting).

Then you get off your bike and get onto this contraption that is an adjustable bike. He can dial in any frame geometry, bar position, seat position, crank length, etc desired. We started with the frame geometry of my primary candidate bike. Then he tweaks various parameters on the bike, has you pedal away and asks you "better or worse?" just like at the eye doctor, all the while measuring your power output to see if you're making choices that actually would be expected to result in better performance. Still with the LED sensors so more 3D motion capture, stick figures, analysis of every joint position during every moment of your pedal stroke.

Finally when you're done, he sets up your current bike as ideally as possible. You get a report with the best candidate bikes in your price range. Then the idea is you go shopping. Except I'd already been shopping and was in love with a bike which fortunately he said is an excellent choice. For me, I am getting the new bike with shorter than usual cranks, narrow compact bars, and a slightly wider saddle. Once you get your new bike, you go back for your final fitting and then for as many more as you need to get it right.

All this is taking place in the LA Velodrome, where the US and Canadian National teams are doing interval training. And elite riders keep stopping by to ask a quick question. Why? Because he is also the filter for both the US & Canadian national teams.

The very next day after my fitting, I started ticking off all kinds of "personal bests". Really this guy has improved my cycling so much just in one afternoon. And even though I say my fit is perfect, he says it's not & won't be until the new bike. Which allegedly will be just a few more weeks.

H

Cool. When's your first double century?

 

[heathpack]

Oh yeah and based on the motion capture, I actually do have a very good pedal stroke for someone with my level of experience. My up stroke is very nicely superimposed over my down stroke, apparently it's quite common for people to pedal in more of a figure-8 motion (which now that he mentioned, I see all the time when I am riding behind somebody). The arc of my pedal stroke is unfortunately not parallel to the bike, but this is getting fixed on the new bike in large part by the shorter cranks (which will also take out a "dead" non-power-generating spot from the top of my pedal stroke which is occurring because my leg comes up too high at the top of my stroke).

Of course we can all improve the efficiency of our pedal stroke and it is something that I actively work on. And there's all kinds of nuance to it with hill climbing that I can barely wrap my head around.

H

 

[heathpack]

Cool. When's your first double century?

Ha, I'm actually considering next Dec.

I have a flat century next Sat. Then a hilly one in April. If that goes well I might try a 70-mi ride at altitude in August. And if that goes well (it might not, apparently 70 mi at 8000 ft altitude is approx equivalent to 140 miles at 1200 ft altitude, where I train), then maybe a hilly century at altitude in September.

Then if all that goes well, maybe the flat-ish (5000 ft climbing) double in Dec.

But that's a lot of training and a very ambitious plan for ones second year of cycling. So all I'm really committing to for now are the first two centuries, then we'll take it from there.

Seriously if you like cycling and ever make it out to LA with your bike, you should think about the fitting. Fascinating process.

H

 

[MULTIZ321]

Heathpack,

Thanks for the updates. I've certainly learned a lot about the intricacies of the sport of cycling.

Good luck on your Century.


Richard

 

[Phydeaux]

Ha, I'm actually considering next Dec.

I have a flat century next Sat. Then a hilly one in April. If that goes well I might try a 70-mi ride at altitude in August. And if that goes well (it might not, apparently 70 mi at 8000 ft altitude is approx equivalent to 140 miles at 1200 ft altitude, where I train), then maybe a hilly century at altitude in September.

Then if all that goes well, maybe the flat-ish (5000 ft climbing) double in Dec.

But that's a lot of training and a very ambitious plan for ones second year of cycling. So all I'm really committing to for now are the first two centuries, then we'll take it from there.

Seriously if you like cycling and ever make it out to LA with your bike, you should think about the fitting. Fascinating process.

H

Glad you're enjoying the sport. It's wonderful, isn't it? Most people have no idea and never will, of the beauty, excitement, and passion of cycling.

As far as fitting, double centuries, criteriums, road races, triathlons, biathlons, and thousands of miles of fun, mostly fast paced touring, they're all in my past. I've moved on to now enjoy the horse powered variety of two wheeled sports.

[IMGL]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d189/bellasogno/Motorcycling/Bellasogno_zpsccb49f92.jpg[/IMGL]

Pardon the semi-hijack. Couldn't resist. Many of us alter our passions throughout this beautiful gift of life.

 

[Passepartout]

Who knew there was so much to just flinging a leg over the frame of a bike and going for a ride in the country, seeing the sights and smelling the smells. Hmmmpf.

Jim

 

[Ridewithme38]

Who knew there was so much to just flinging a leg over the frame of a bike and going for a ride in the country, seeing the sights and smelling the smells. Hmmmpf.

Jim

Bikes are a lot different now from what some of the members here remember as kids!

 

[spencersmama]

I even really want to buy a power meter (a better training tool than HR monitor) but I am in the process of buying a fancy new bike and don't want to spend the money or take the time to research yet another piece of bike equipment.

H

As I was reading page one, I thought, "Don't spend too much money on the computer. You'll need to save some for the bike upgrade. I can see an upgrade in the very near future." Haha

My husband loves (loved) to ride his bike, too, and always has a list of upgrades, gadgets, and trips he wants to take. I say loved because he had a tumor on his spinal cord removed three months ago and has been in a wheelchair and in physical therapy since. He says he misses being able to walk the most but riding his bike is a close second. He's making pretty quick progress, so I'm sure he'll be back to those centuries in no time.

 

[heathpack]

Glad you're enjoying the sport. It's wonderful, isn't it? Most people have no idea and never will, of the beauty, excitement, and passion of cycling.

As far as fitting, double centuries, criteriums, road races, triathlons, biathlons, and thousands of miles of fun, mostly fast paced touring, they're all in my past. I've moved on to now enjoy the horse powered variety of two wheeled sports.

[IMGL]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d189/bellasogno/Motorcycling/Bellasogno_zpsccb49f92.jpg[/IMGL]

Pardon the semi-hijack. Couldn't resist. Many of us alter our passions throughout this beautiful gift of life.

No worries. You KNOW this thread is going to get a pic of the new bike when it arrives.

And you will all be underwhelmed. It is a very understated bike. The color is "Stealth"



H

 

[heathpack]

As I was reading page one, I thought, "Don't spend too much money on the computer. You'll need to save some for the bike upgrade. I can see an upgrade in the very near future." Haha

My husband loves (loved) to ride his bike, too, and always has a list of upgrades, gadgets, and trips he wants to take. I say loved because he had a tumor on his spinal cord removed three months ago and has been in a wheelchair and in physical therapy since. He says he misses being able to walk the most but riding his bike is a close second. He's making pretty quick progress, so I'm sure he'll be back to those centuries in no time.

Aw, I did not know that he was sick. I hope he is back on his bike soon!

H

 

[pjrose]

. . .
You need to know all these variables as you are riding, plus the thing ou are attempting to accomplish in that particular training session. You will not get the necessary data points from a phone app.

Can you measure calories burned in order to determine how many mini-pies and zoku pops you can have LOL?

This sounds really complicated and over involved. Have you considered buying a car instead? It will help avoid wear and tear on your joints/knees and body and can get you places much easier and in a more relaxed state.

And more time for the culinary arts!

 

[heathpack]

Who knew there was so much to just flinging a leg over the frame of a bike and going for a ride in the country, seeing the sights and smelling the smells. Hmmmpf.

Jim

Jim, you can totally do that too. That's what's nice about cycling. You can keep it simple or got a little loonie about the technical aspects. It's got a little something for everybody.

H

 

[Ridewithme38]

This bike looks interesting...the YikeBike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbxp...kc&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_266322

 

[heathpack]

Can you measure calories burned in order to determine how many mini-pies and zoku pops you can have LOL?



And more time for the culinary arts!

Lol, PJ, I have been training for my century ride since the day we got back from WKORV, Nov 17. That's a total of 12 weeks, with two weeks of reduced training and 10 weeks of normal training.

During this training time, according to my Garmin I have burned.... drum roll, please....

30,000 calories

Which is probably pretty accurate because I've also lost 8 pounds. Truthfully some of that just normal post-vacation weight loss. But still, I'm not complaining. Sigh, I have 10 more pounds to go to make my ideal hill climbing weight. (Good hill climbers are skinny like whippets.)

H

 

[lvhmbh]

Just back to this thread. Thanks for the updates Heathpack (was reading it as heaLthpack for a while ). Here in the Boca area we have a large number of biking clubs and I see them zipping by. There are some fellas that train in the early a.m. when I ride. They are nice to wave at a woman riding a Townie (3 speed but old fashioned sit up straight bike with Fat Frank tires). I ride 10 miles and think that's alot but I meander in comparison to you. Good luck with your riding!

 

[heathpack]

Just back to this thread. Thanks for the updates Heathpack (was reading it as heaLthpack for a while ). Here in the Boca area we have a large number of biking clubs and I see them zipping by. There are some fellas that train in the early a.m. when I ride. They are nice to wave at a woman riding a Townie (3 speed but old fashioned sit up straight bike with Fat Frank tires). I ride 10 miles and think that's alot but I meander in comparison to you. Good luck with your riding!

It is my policy to greet everyone I come across. It's my observation that pretty much all cyclists greet me back. I therefore conclude cycling makes one happy. Joggers? Sorry they are GRIM. Never say hello back or even seem to acknowledge my "good morning.". I conclude jogging makes people unhappy.

Lol on the 10 miles, that used to be my long ride only one year ago. Now it is my warm-up. When I'm making up my training plan, I find myself writing things like "short, easy ride 35-45mi". It's funny how much things can chage in a year.

H

 

[Phydeaux]

No worries. You KNOW this thread is going to get a pic of the new bike when it arrives.

And you will all be underwhelmed. It is a very understated bike. The color is "Stealth"



H

I'd like to see your new bike, and I'm sure it'll be a nice one. But honestly, bikes don't impress me. Nor do the other tools of sports. It's what people can do with and on them that gets my attention.

Cycling is like many sports. The tool doesn't make it, the user does. Put a fit athlete on a mediocre or crappy bike, and they'll smoke most anyone on their $5K state-of-the-art carbon wonder. I'm sure you'd agree.

 

[heathpack]

I'd like to see your new bike, and I'm sure it'll be a nice one. But honestly, bikes don't impress me. Nor do the other tools of sports. It's what people can do with and on them that gets my attention.

Cycling is like many sports. The tool doesn't make it, the user does. Put a fit athlete on a mediocre or crappy bike, and they'll smoke most anyone on their $5K state-of-the-art carbon wonder. I'm sure you'd agree.

Lol, I have zero interest in being better than anyone else or "smoking" someone. I don't get the idea of bike racing. For me it's all about the training process, personal achievement, enjoyment on the bike. Not that I'm criticizing an interest in racing in any way. You get to know a lot of men if you get into cycling, and I find it charming how much they care about their skills, speed, etc relative to others. I think bike racing appeals by its very nature to the male psyche. And of course plenty of female psyches, just not mine, lol.

So I went out and did these test rides on new bikes. Mostly they were just bikes with various attractive features. Then I rode "the one" and boy that was different. A thing of functional perfection. I actually forgot I was riding a bike at some point, my mind wandered off and I rode 2 miles past my turn around point. Everything about it was just "right". Funny thing was then later I read a review in an Austalian cycling mag and that reviewer mentioned the same experience riding the bike.

Looking at the bike and me on it, you probably would not be impressed at all. I'm not blazing fast. I'm have little expectation smoking anyone. For me, it's more about how I feel internally when I'm riding and the feeling of mastery when I become able to easily accomplish something that used to be hard.

H

 

[Phydeaux]

Lol, I have zero interest in being better than anyone else or "smoking" someone. I don't get the idea of bike racing. For me it's all about the training process, personal achievement, enjoyment on the bike. Not that I'm criticizing an interest in racing in any way. You get to know a lot of men if you get into cycling, and I find it charming how much they care about their skills, speed, etc relative to others. I think bike racing appeals by its very nature to the male psyche. And of course plenty of female psyches, just not mine, lol.

So I went out and did these test rides on new bikes. Mostly they were just bikes with various attractive features. Then I rode "the one" and boy that was different. A thing of functional perfection. I actually forgot I was riding a bike at some point, my mind wandered off and I rode 2 miles past my turn around point. Everything about it was just "right". Funny thing was then later I read a review in an Austalian cycling mag and that reviewer mentioned the same experience riding the bike.

Looking at the bike and me on it, you probably would not be impressed at all. I'm not blazing fast. I'm have little expectation smoking anyone. For me, it's more about how I feel internally when I'm riding and the feeling of mastery when I become able to easily accomplish something that used to be hard.

H

I get it. After all, it's what makes the world go 'round. You're in the mainstream of the cycling demographic. You ride for you, and no one else. That's cool, and it's the reason most people ride. Others ride for other reasons, whether to better their own personal best, competition, long distance, sprinting, velodrome tactics, social interaction, etc. Enjoy it! It's a wonderful sport! It's whatever you want it to be.

I may have missed it - What bike are you buying? make/model?