VIP erosion question

[Xcalibur]

Hi,

I've read time and time again about how Wyndham has eroded the various VIP privileges. For those of you who have been around, could you detail the history? i'm curious... is it really *that* bad?

thanks!

 

[ronparise]

Hi,

I've read time and time again about how Wyndham has eroded the various VIP privileges. For those of you who have been around, could you detail the history? i'm curious... is it really *that* bad?

thanks!

I dont think its that bad, but I wasnt around back in the day. One mega owner I know told me he used to be able to make a lot of money with his points...not so much any more.

The erosion, I think has been done to discourage rentals. The changes havent really affected the guy that uses his points for his and his families vacations. At least thats the way I see it, but of course I wasnt around "back in the day"

The major benefits of being a VIP are the discounts and upgrades...These havent changed

The changes I think can be grouped in three categories
1) changes in how you can become VIP
2) changes that affect all owners, not just VIP
3) actual reductions in VIP benefits,

It used to be easier and cheaper to become a VIP. There were more ways to do it that didnt require a large purchase of developer points. 1) PIC weeks were unlimited 2) some converted fixed weeks converted to VIP eligible points

Since Ive been involved with Wyndham,(almost 3 years) They have upped the points requirements to become VIP, but the old VIPs were grandfathered in..

Now PIC weeks are limited to two, so the maximum number of VIP points you can get that way is 508000 which puts Platinum out of reach and Gold expensive. and there are only a few weeks in the system that can be converted to VIP...good luck finding them.

There have been changes that affected all owners, but because VIP owners have more points and often do rentals, these changes affected them more

The big change was the owner to owner transfer of points. This practice was stopped.

Also guest confirmations cost a lot more now and I think VIPs got an unlimited number free

also RCI exchanges arent nearly as cheap as they once were

also the realignment of use years stopped the practice of cancelling and rolling forward points so they never expire.


As to the elimination of VIP benefits or the increase in cost for VIP benefits, I dont know of any except I dont think VIPs get USA Today delivered to their door any more.

Id also be interested to hear what VIPs that have been around a while see.

 

[lcml11]

I dont think its that bad, but I wasnt around back in the day. One mega owner I know told me he used to be able to make a lot of money with his points...not so much any more.

The erosion, I think has been done to discourage rentals. The changes havent really affected the guy that uses his points for his and his families vacations. At least thats the way I see it, but of course I wasnt around "back in the day"

The major benefits of being a VIP are the discounts and upgrades...These havent changed

The changes I think can be grouped in three categories
1) changes in how you can become VIP
2) changes that affect all owners, not just VIP
3) actual reductions in VIP benefits,

It used to be easier and cheaper to become a VIP. There were more ways to do it that didnt require a large purchase of developer points. 1) PIC weeks were unlimited 2) some converted fixed weeks converted to VIP eligible points

Since Ive been involved with Wyndham,(almost 3 years) They have upped the points requirements to become VIP, but the old VIPs were grandfathered in..

Now PIC weeks are limited to two, so the maximum number of VIP points you can get that way is 508000 which puts Platinum out of reach and Gold expensive. and there are only a few weeks in the system that can be converted to VIP...good luck finding them.

There have been changes that affected all owners, but because VIP owners have more points and often do rentals, these changes affected them more

The big change was the owner to owner transfer of points. This practice was stopped.

Also guest confirmations cost a lot more now and I think VIPs got an unlimited number free

also RCI exchanges arent nearly as cheap as they once were

also the realignment of use years stopped the practice of cancelling and rolling forward points so they never expire.


As to the elimination of VIP benefits or the increase in cost for VIP benefits, I dont know of any except I dont think VIPs get USA Today delivered to their door any more.

Id also be interested to hear what VIPs that have been around a while see.

As of September 20, the newspapers were still there.

 

[vacationhopeful]

There have been some "enhancements" which have made VIP issues more than annoying include:
Limiting Guest Certificates was NOT REALLY okay - but to take the cost from $29 to $129 was extreme as it was all a benefit to Wyndham's bottom line. Remember, the original $29 WAS for the call in (only available to add was to call it in) and then Wyndham raised the cost to $49 (when they went to the enhancement by doing it online) -- you could say, "OK, got something for my money". BUT 2 months later, to raise the GC fee Again "TO $99 ONLINE or $129 CALL IN"???

Limiting PIC weeks to 2 verses 4 - yes, there were persons who had set up 5 or 7 or 9 VIP accounts to run rental business (using South African timeshares as their PICs) ... might not have to their liking - but they could have JUST made it so ONLY US BASED timeshares could be PIC'ed.

Increasing the VIP points levels - called point inflation for the points needed to book the newer resorts. This ONLY benefits marketing - as they pull out the point charts for the older resorts while sitting in and selling the NEW shiny resort which cost 3X the points shown on the older resorts. And it also makes the NEWER resorts MFs per 1,000 point cost seem lower - at first. (and the is WHY Seawatch is the hardest resort in Myrtle Beach to book in the summer -- costs LESS points. And that is why the owners of Seawatch get unhappy to be paying MORE in MFs than OB Tower 4 owners who are booking the Seawatch Resort during the first 3 minutes of the 13 ARP window).

Sales has also deluited the VALUE of RARP for VIP Gold & Platinum -- giving multiple resort ARP to owners at resorts in the NOT YET OPEN phase. That's right - deeds with ARP at 2 different resorts. That is WHAT RARP is supposed to be valued for.

No unit size or season upgrades in RCI exchanges - a REAL benefit that most likely was NOT used often. Now, the 14 day upgrades with Platinum RCI membership is NOT even available for the Wyndham Owners -- much less the VIP owners. And Platinum RCI SHOULD have been INCLUDED totally with the RCI GOLD and Platinum ownerships.

The VIP Presidential Reserve classification - how has that been working out for Wyndham? :hysterical:

The mythical WAITLIST development has ONLY turned into, the 60 day out unit cancellations with 90% of the inventory going to EXTRA VACATIONS - not VIP upgraded units. Or to owners waiting and hoping for a last shot at dream vacations.... PLEASE, I still remember the OLD DAYS of signing onto the Wyndham online system at 8AM to LOOK for the prior days cancelled inventory -- to SCORE a great week. I had a chance!! NOW, I have nothing -- Extra Vacations is renting units to walkup NON-OWNERS ahead of the owners paying their MFs --- and for LESS than the MFs cost the owners!

Just follow the green backs - owners pay MFs to run the resorts and Wyndham writes the rules (and computer system) to snag the FREE inventory to rent to John Q. Public. Just WHERE is the WAITLIST --- I bet it is in the PERMENTALITY to be DEVELOPED pile.

 

[Explorer7]

Though not a VIP change, so far since I have been a VIP the value of my ownership sky rocketed when Wyndham made units available "immediately" when a reservation gets cancelled. I am taking vacations in incredible units that I never would have had if I had to continue to wait until the next morning for cancelled inventory to show up.

Still not a VIP exclusive change but at first I did not like the 15 day cancelation window change until I started finding incredible units and upgrades appearing during the 15 to 20 day check in window.

I do wish I could share points between other owners and though it's not that big a deal to me I don't like the overlapping reservation restriction.

 

[Free2Roam]

I don't like the overlapping reservation restriction.

Agreed....

 

[joestein]

Lets not forget that as soon as they banned owner to owner point transfers, they raised the price of extra points to $10/1000 from $7/1000.

My SIL and brother both have Wyndham accounts, we used to be able to help each other out, but not anymore.

 

[ronparise]

Back to the ops VIP erosion question "is it really *that* bad?"


Ive read through the several posts and its seems that it is more difficult to become a VIP, but once there the VIP benefits havent changed at all.

No doubt some things have changed, but these changes have applied to all owners not just VIP owners.

If I answer the OPs question based on what I read here, Id say The erosion of VIP benefits is not really that bad.

 

[Explorer7]

Back to the ops VIP erosion question "is it really *that* bad?"


Ive read through the several posts and its seems that it is more difficult to become a VIP, but once there the VIP benefits havent changed at all.

No doubt some things have changed, but these changes have applied to all owners not just VIP owners.

If I answer the OPs question based on what I read here, Id say The erosion of VIP benefits is not really that bad.

I agree with Ron. Sticking specifically to the OP's question regarding VIP benefits, my VIP benifits have not eroded since 2008 when I purchased them. The only "VIP" policy change I can think of is the point level increase to qualify for Silver and Gold VIP. Since I was grandfathered in I believe the increase was not a negative to me as it potentially means I have fewer VIP's to compete with for discounts/upgrades moving forward.

 

[comicbookman]

I would say the biggest VIP only erosion is the availability of early check in, dedicated check in(or check in line priority) and dedicated VC's. These are touted as "just like a hotel VIP", but there is no longer dedicated VC's or separate check in and most resorts have early check in only sporadically (and it is not limited to VIP's). The consistent availability of early check in is the biggest loss, but I consider all of them relatively minor.

 

[ronparise]

I would say the biggest VIP only erosion is the availability of early check in, dedicated check in(or check in line priority) and dedicated VC's. These are touted as "just like a hotel VIP", but there is no longer dedicated VC's or separate check in and most resorts have early check in only sporadically (and it is not limited to VIP's). The consistent availability of early check in is the biggest loss, but I consider all of them relatively minor.

Regarding the dedicated VC's. I do have a different phone number to use for my VIP account. When I asked about it I was told that its the same group of VCs that answer the phone, but different queues. Presumably a VIP goes to the front of the line...The only time it makes a difference is when you are calling in to make an ARP reservation right at 13 months...or at the 10 month mark when you are competing with everyone else

Early check in is not an issue for me...Im always running late. If I really need an early check in, I reserve a day early. Being able to waste a days worth of points is a benefit of owning lots of points...not VIP

 

[lcml11]

Regarding the dedicated VC's. I do have a different phone number to use for my VIP account. When I asked about it I was told that its the same group of VCs that answer the phone, but different queues. Presumably a VIP goes to the front of the line...The only time it makes a difference is when you are calling in to make an ARP reservation right at 13 months...or at the 10 month mark when you are competing with everyone else

Early check in is not an issue for me...Im always running late. If I really need an early check in, I reserve a day early. Being able to waste a days worth of points is a benefit of owning lots of points...not VIP

A number of days ago I tired to use the VIP line and was told it is gone now and is just the regular call center. They did not release the number to me. I do not have the old number so I cannot call it to see if it answers. The rep was clear there is no VIP preference on this point.

 

[rickandcindy23]

VIP line I think is 888-884-4321

I wasn't aware of a change. But I do know that the online system is so much better, it really did cause Wyndham to cut down on some employees. We rarely call anymore and had to call for upgrades.

Benefits have eroded for Platinum. Unlimited GC's was great for Platinum, and we bought it based on that fact. I still have the contracts and a DVD explaining the benefits of the program, all of which say unlimited guest certificates. I kept everything from the sale. We converted our Bali Hai weeks, which apparently Wyndham will no longer do.

 

[ronparise]

A number of days ago I tired to use the VIP line and was told it is gone now and is just the regular call center. They did not release the number to me. I do not have the old number so I cannot call it to see if it answers. The rep was clear there is no VIP preference on this point.

I just called my VIP number and was told that in busy times, using that number will get me through quicker and also it goes to a group of more experienced reps...pretty much the same think I was told once before. ...And no Im not going to post the number....There are a couple of days a years when I want less competition getting to a VC

 

[ronparise]

VIP line I think is 888-884-4321

I wasn't aware of a change. But I do know that the online system is so much better, it really did cause Wyndham to cut down on some employees. We rarely call anymore and had to call for upgrades.

Benefits have eroded for Platinum. Unlimited GC's was great for Platinum, and we bought it based on that fact. I still have the contracts and a DVD explaining the benefits of the program, all of which say unlimited guest certificates. I kept everything from the sale. We converted our Bali Hai weeks, which apparently Wyndham will no longer do.

Damn Cindy...now everyone has that number..even my old friend LCML11. But you are right, except for ARP, its easier and faster to go online...It pretty much no big deal

The unlimited Guest certs would be a big deal for me and you because we own a ton of points over and above the million qualifying VIP points, and we rent out most of them. But for the average Platinum owner its probably not that big a deal. Im thinking of the guy with just over a million qualifying points and 3 million altogether that uses most of them himself. He gets 30 guest confirms which would be enough for over 2 million points even if they were used for all short stay reservations

I think most of the changes we complain about were designed to curtail the mega renters. And they just dont have much effect on the regular owner

 

[tug1873]

I have to agree with Ron the VIP benefits changes only hurt people who rent a lot.

I also would not be surprised if the ability to cancel and re-book the same room disappeared soon. It's a nice feature for VIP's but the purpose of the discount is to fill rooms that would otherwise go empty and thus burning those points. I think that really is a win win for everyone empty rooms is not good for anyone.

Booking a room early and the canceling it and re-booking it for less points actually hurts the whole system if that happens to much.

The same thing can be said for split years and being able to roll points ahead. It makes sense that they needed to balance the system. That is why they took that away. Yes it changes things but it also makes sense.

I think there is money to be made renting but the biggest value in wyndham is using it for yourself.

VIP is really just a marketing ploy of wyndham to sell more developer points. Not allowing resale points to take advantage of it means it will probably have even less value over time. If they ever favored VIP too much it would make us who have resale pretty angry and it would probably cause a lot legal headaches for wyndham as well.

 

[csxjohn]

...I also would not be surprised if the ability to cancel and re-book the same room disappeared soon. It's a nice feature for VIP's but the purpose of the discount is to fill rooms that would otherwise go empty and thus burning those points. I think that really is a win win for everyone empty rooms is not good for anyone.

...

Booking early, canceling, and re booking actually helps because that member now has points available to book rooms that might otherwise go empty if they didn't have those extra points to use. Unless I'm missing something, and that's a real possibility.

 

[lcml11]

Damn Cindy...now everyone has that number..even my old friend LCML11. But you are right, except for ARP, its easier and faster to go online...It pretty much no big deal

The unlimited Guest certs would be a big deal for me and you because we own a ton of points over and above the million qualifying VIP points, and we rent out most of them. But for the average Platinum owner its probably not that big a deal. Im thinking of the guy with just over a million qualifying points and 3 million altogether that uses most of them himself. He gets 30 guest confirms which would be enough for over 2 million points even if they were used for all short stay reservations

I think most of the changes we complain about were designed to curtail the mega renters. And they just dont have much effect on the regular owner

No worry Ron, I do not use ARP or RARP so I do not compete with you. Heck, I do not even want to go to your favorate resorts.

 

[comicbookman]

I have to agree with Ron the VIP benefits changes only hurt people who rent a lot......VIP is really just a marketing ploy of wyndham to sell more developer points. Not allowing resale points to take advantage of it means it will probably have even less value over time. If they ever favored VIP too much it would make us who have resale pretty angry and it would probably cause a lot legal headaches for wyndham as well.

I too think the changes were directed at renters. As to adding or deleting VIP benefits causing Wyndham legal headaches with resale owners, I don't see how. It really is no different from an airline frequent flyer program that exempts discounted stays from counting. The contract is between the VIP owner and the developer.

 

[tug1873]

Booking early, canceling, and re booking actually helps because that member now has points available to book rooms that might otherwise go empty if they didn't have those extra points to use. Unless I'm missing something, and that's a real possibility.

This actually hurts non vip members because I can't do that and takes away bookings from me because I am not VIP even thought I have enough points to qualify.

When you book early that inventory is no longer available for me to book. I would have booked and used the higher points. More points means more money in the system for everything including Maintenance fees.

Vip owners have a loophole in where they can book it the morning it's first available and then a few weeks before cancel it and rebook right away for a lot less points. That is why it hurts the system. If they cancel it and that rooms ends up on a waiting list or they have to wait 24 hours they most likely will not do it. When too many people do this and they will because they can wyndham will have no choice but to end it since it will cost them too much or becomes a liability to them

 

[tug1873]

I too think the changes were directed at renters. As to adding or deleting VIP benefits causing Wyndham legal headaches with resale owners, I don't see how. It really is no different from an airline frequent flyer program that exempts discounted stays from counting. The contract is between the VIP owner and the developer.

It isn't a legal problem because it really is just like a frequent flyer program and wyndham pays for the cost of it. They can do this because they charge so much when you buy from them.. Once you realize that VIP is just because you overpaid it is not really an issue anymore


The problem becomes when they do something that alters the system and it doesn't cost them real money. They will never offer something that is real value to most people based on how things are setup. Imagine if VIP gave you ARP at every resort system wide at 13 months. It wouldn't take long before someone sued them over that.

As far as I know wyndham points are in a trust so they have to fairly represent all owners legally including resale point owners.

 

[comicbookman]

This actually hurts non vip members because I can't do that and takes away bookings from me because I am not VIP even thought I have enough points to qualify.

When you book early that inventory is no longer available for me to book. I would have booked and used the higher points. More points means more money in the system for everything including Maintenance fees.

Vip owners have a loophole in where they can book it the morning it's first available and then a few weeks before cancel it and rebook right away. That is why it hurts the system. If they cancel it and that rooms ends up on a waiting list or they have to wait 24 hours they most likely will not do it. When too many people do this and they will because they can wyndham will have no choice but to end it since it will cost them too much or becomes a liability to them

I have on occasion used this trick to and saved a lot of points. That being said I agree that it is not good for the system. A waitlist would make this much harder to pull off. I believe the scrapped voyager reservation system was supposed to have a way to prevent this as well.

 

[tug1873]

I have on occasion used this trick to and saved a lot of points. That being said I agree that it is not good for the system. A waitlist would make this much harder to pull off. I believe the scrapped voyager reservation system was supposed to have a way to prevent this as well.

The best would be no discount for at least 24 hours on booking the same room type at the chosen resort along with a waitlist for others. This would make it pretty tough to cancel and rebook the prior to the discount unless there was lots of rooms available.

So if you booked a 2 bedroom you have to book a one bedroom or 3 bedroom or else you need to wait 24 hours. Nothing wrong with that and pretty easy to implement.

 

[ronparise]

No worry Ron, I do not use ARP or RARP so I do not compete with you. Heck, I do not even want to go to your favorate resorts.

Come on

Maybe we can go to Mardi Gras and meet up with Paco

 

[lcml11]

Come on

Maybe we can go to Mardi Gras and meet up with Paco

Not a bad idea, however, I have that square filled. I was stationed in the state at one point.