VIP erosion question

[jebloomquist]

Actually, if Wyndham wanted to, during the ARP booking window - they could LIMIT each phone call to JUST ONE RESERVATION. Then you would have to redial and get into the queue again. If they are cancelling overlapping reservations without guest certificates at the 15 days before check in -- why would this be any different. It would serious HURT a mega-renter booking 5 reservations for ANY event.

I know of owners who have huge family gatherings at one resort. They book up to 6 units for a week. This requires a great deal of work to make the reservations, all at the same time, and know that there is availability at a resort such as Bonnet Creek.

Guest certificate are put on later, because it is never clear which family members will actually make the family gathering.

By limiting the number of reservations that an owner can make might get a legal challenge from an owner who is doing legitimate large family reservations.

 

[lcml11]

Some around here think a Wyndham point is a Wyndham point. To the degree that I own 1 million plus Wyndham Vacation Resort points should not limit me because of my ownership of these points.

I would not like becoming a tenth class owner or worse because I own more than one or two contracts.

It is my understanding that most everyone can buy more points if they want, resale or developer points. ARP rights do not add any significant value for the VIP owner. Owners that own and pay maintenance fess on their points would have some of their points devalued in this way.

P.S. Most of the day here in PA. it was not raining. Maybe me and others like me should go smell the roses and fly a kite. Others that want to cure the alleged injustice of this issue can always head off to E-Bay and buy more points.

P.P.S. If anyone wants Veterans day weekend at Kingsgate there were a number of units available for 11/08/2013: 3 nights 1 Bedroom 45,000 points 22,500 VIP points. Anyone want to check Resort Specials?

Wyndham Ocean Boulevard 36,000 VIP Points for a three bedroom.


Star Island 24,000 VIP Points for a one bedroom A side.

 

[jjmanthei05]

This actually hurts non vip members because I can't do that and takes away bookings from me because I am not VIP even thought I have enough points to qualify.

When you book early that inventory is no longer available for me to book. I would have booked and used the higher points. More points means more money in the system for everything including Maintenance fees.

Vip owners have a loophole in where they can book it the morning it's first available and then a few weeks before cancel it and rebook right away for a lot less points. That is why it hurts the system. If they cancel it and that rooms ends up on a waiting list or they have to wait 24 hours they most likely will not do it. When too many people do this and they will because they can wyndham will have no choice but to end it since it will cost them too much or becomes a liability to them

This doesn't hurt the system, all this hurts is sales. They are the ones that have to pay the extra points that VIPs get. Vip benefits don't change the amount of MF that are paid into the system. What VIPs do is actually take away from extra holiday rentals because they have less points to book rooms and there is less inventory for them to rent out.

Jason

 

[persia]

Does the following work? Transfer the VIP account to a trust, add a new owner to the trust, remove the original owner?

 

[lcml11]

Does the following work? Transfer the VIP account to a trust, add a new owner to the trust, remove the original owner?

Best way to answer this is to gather the program documents, deeds, etc. and take them to an attorney. The answer may very well rest with when the intervals were bought, the type of interval, and the specific club in question.

 

[ronparise]

Does the following work? Transfer the VIP account to a trust, add a new owner to the trust, remove the original owner?

Or transfer to corporation and then sell the the stock to a new owner. There's no reason why that shouldn't work. Except that it getting around the rules. I think Wyndham would be within their rights to take away VIP if,(and this is a big if) they figure out what's happening

 

[Ron2]

Some around here think a Wyndham point is a Wyndham point. To the degree that I own 1 million plus Wyndham Vacation Resort points should not limit me because of my ownership of these points.

I would not like becoming a tenth class owner or worse because I own more than one or two contracts.

It is my understanding that most everyone can buy more points if they want, resale or developer points. ARP rights do not add any significant value for the VIP owner. Owners that own and pay maintenance fess on their points would have some of their points devalued in this way.

P.S. Most of the day here in PA. it was not raining. Maybe me and others like me should go smell the roses and fly a kite. Others that want to cure the alleged injustice of this issue can always head off to E-Bay and buy more points.

P.P.S. If anyone wants Veterans day weekend at Kingsgate there were a number of units available for 11/08/2013: 3 nights 1 Bedroom 45,000 points 22,500 VIP points. Anyone want to check Resort Specials?

I’m not sure how buying more points can cure any injustices. However I am sure that “a Wyndham point is a Wyndham point” and that ARP has value even to VIP owners. If you don’t believe me, just try to reserve a summer 2 or 3 bedroom unit at Seawatch without it. Even with CWA, it’s near impossible. Since the comment on limiting the number of reservations that an owner can make at a single resort each day struck a nerve with you, it’s obvious you’re more interested in using Wyndham as a business venture than for personal vacations. Honestly, I don’t have any problem with owners reserving a few prime time units as rentals to help cover their costs of ownership but I do have a problem with large rental firms sucking up a large portion of prime time inventory at the more popular resorts for their rental business.

 

[ronparise]

I’m not sure how buying more points can cure any injustices. However I am sure that “a Wyndham point is a Wyndham point” and that ARP has value even to VIP owners. If you don’t believe me, just try to reserve a summer 2 or 3 bedroom unit at Seawatch without it. Even with CWA, it’s near impossible. Since the comment on limiting the number of reservations that an owner can make at a single resort each day struck a nerve with you, it’s obvious you’re more interested in using Wyndham as a business venture than for personal vacations. Honestly, I don’t have any problem with owners reserving a few prime time units as rentals to help cover their costs of ownership but I do have a problem with large rental firms sucking up a large portion of prime time inventory at the more popular resorts for their rental business.

You need to know that these large rental firms represent individual owners. and they make those reservations in individual owners accounts. one here and one there. The owners are, as you suggest, just trying to cover some of their fees, when they employ one of these firms.

I seldom agree with lcml11 (heck, I seldom understand what he is saying) but here I think he is right. When it comes to getting a reservation you want, the only difference between a small account owner and a large account owner (VIP or otherwise) is the number of points that they have. So if you want more reservations, just buy more points

What difference does it make if I have 3 million points and I make 10 reservations for a particular date or if ten 300000 point owners make one reservation each...either way thats 10 reservations that are no longer available to the rest of the owners. And the fact is that if you only want one of those reservations, you will have a much better chance of getting that one than I have getting my 10. And thats what I see as not fair...I have 10 times the points and I pay 10 times the mf; shouldnt I be able to get ten times the reservations?... ie shouldnt size matter? but it doesnt

 

[lcml11]

I’m not sure how buying more points can cure any injustices. However I am sure that “a Wyndham point is a Wyndham point” and that ARP has value even to VIP owners. If you don’t believe me, just try to reserve a summer 2 or 3 bedroom unit at Seawatch without it. Even with CWA, it’s near impossible. Since the comment on limiting the number of reservations that an owner can make at a single resort each day struck a nerve with you, it’s obvious you’re more interested in using Wyndham as a business venture than for personal vacations. Honestly, I don’t have any problem with owners reserving a few prime time units as rentals to help cover their costs of ownership but I do have a problem with large rental firms sucking up a large portion of prime time inventory at the more popular resorts for their rental business.

The cure to the injustice is to switch sides.

By the way, it is under 10 months and Seawatch Plantation is available during the summer. Go for it.

Seawatch Plantation:

06/06/2014 7 1 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 154,000 N/A

06/09/2014 7 1 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 154,000 N/A

Ocean Blvd has plenty of availability through June and July and August 1st. The balance of the weeks in August are not up in the window at this point. No reason to believe they will be different.

Towers on the Grove has availability in June, July, and the small portion of August that is in the window.

Westwinds still has the following: 06/06/2014 7 nights 2 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 175,000

You appear to make broad statements not necessarily supported by facts.

If you want Seawatch Plantation during the summer. Just buy some Seawatch Plantation contracts and use the ARP. You get the added bonus that the ARP at 13 months can be used in some of the other Myrtle Beach resorts.

Simple fix.

If you insist on Seawatch Plantation 2 bedroom, it is currently available through reservations from about August 17, 2013 on under ARP. So much for the earlier riser getting all of the worms for Summer 2 bedrooms at Seawatch Plantation for mid to late August. For this group, the early bird just got some of the worms and got on line early.

P.S. In my opinion, Westwinds is the better location if you do not have children with you. Otherwise it is Seawatch Plantation. Towers on the Grove next and Ocean Blvd. et. al. bring of the rear. Unless you want three bedrooms, then I hear tell that the Cottages is what you want.

 

[Bigrob]

The cure to the injustice is to switch sides.

By the way, it is under 10 months and Seawatch Plantation is available during the summer. Go for it.

Seawatch Plantation:

06/06/2014 7 1 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 154,000 N/A

06/09/2014 7 1 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 154,000 N/A

Ocean Blvd has plenty of availability through June and July and August 1st. The balance of the weeks in August are not up in the window at this point. No reason to believe they will be different.

Towers on the Grove has availability in June, July, and the small portion of August that is in the window.

Westwinds still has the following: 06/06/2014 7 nights 2 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 175,000

You appear to make broad statements not necessarily supported by facts.

If you want Seawatch Plantation during the summer. Just buy some Seawatch Plantation contracts and use the ARP. You get the added bonus that the ARP at 13 months can be used in some of the other Myrtle Beach resorts.

Simple fix.

P.S. In my opinion, Westwinds is the better location if you do not have children with you. Otherwise it is Seawatch Plantation. Towers on the Grove next and Ocean Blvd. et. al. bring of the rear. Unless you want three bedrooms, then I hear tell that the Cottages is what you want.

Ocean Blvd will usually have availability because of the higher point cost to stay there. Seawatch is, from most accounts, the most difficult to book. Early June is too early for northern area visitors with school agers. OB III (which ironically is Tower 2) and Towers on the Grove have the lowest mf$/K and still have reciprocal ARP rights with Seawatch, WW and Cottages.

 

[Ron2]

The cure to the injustice is to switch sides.

By the way, it is under 10 months and Seawatch Plantation is available during the summer. Go for it.

Seawatch Plantation:

06/06/2014 7 1 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 154,000 N/A

06/09/2014 7 1 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 154,000 N/A

Ocean Blvd has plenty of availability through June and July and August 1st. The balance of the weeks in August are not up in the window at this point. No reason to believe they will be different.

Towers on the Grove has availability in June, July, and the small portion of August that is in the window.

Westwinds still has the following: 06/06/2014 7 nights 2 Bedroom Deluxe Managed by Wyndham Vacation Management, Inc. 175,000

You appear to make broad statements not necessarily supported by facts.

If you want Seawatch Plantation during the summer. Just buy some Seawatch Plantation contracts and use the ARP. You get the added bonus that the ARP at 13 months can be used in some of the other Myrtle Beach resorts.

Simple fix.

If you insist on Seawatch Plantation 2 bedroom, it is currently available through reservations from about August 17, 2013 on under ARP. So much for the earlier riser getting all of the worms for Summer 2 bedrooms at Seawatch Plantation for mid to late August. For this group, the early bird just got some of the worms and got on line early.

P.S. In my opinion, Westwinds is the better location if you do not have children with you. Otherwise it is Seawatch Plantation. Towers on the Grove next and Ocean Blvd. et. al. bring of the rear. Unless you want three bedrooms, then I hear tell that the Cottages is what you want.

Thanks for confirming my claim that there is value in ARP for VIP owners, after all back on post #50 you claimed there is none. As for larger units at Seawatch, you again have supported my assertion that you need to be in on day one of ARP to get anything other than 1-BR units. By the way, the examples you gave for early June availability would be considered late spring not summer. I have been there at that time of year and the water temperature is generally not to my liking. Again, I’m not sure what you mean by “The cure to the injustice is to switch sides.” Does this have some meaning in the Pennsylvania Dutch community?

 

[Ron2]

I know of owners who have huge family gatherings at one resort. They book up to 6 units for a week. This requires a great deal of work to make the reservations, all at the same time, and know that there is availability at a resort such as Bonnet Creek.

Guest certificate are put on later, because it is never clear which family members will actually make the family gathering.

By limiting the number of reservations that an owner can make might get a legal challenge from an owner who is doing legitimate large family reservations.

I couldn’t agree more. Wyndham should accommodate large family gatherings at the resorts. In fact I think they should make it a new VIP perk to accommodate families needing multiple rooms (preferably together) for such occasions. An advanced written request with the names/addresses of all “potential guests” and a special call in phone line would facilitate a quick reservation process at the opening of ARP. The potential guest list would be necessary because without one it would become just another loophole to beat the reservation system. By accommodating such legitimate large groups needing multiple accommodations, I believe they could then put reasonable limits on the number of reservations that a member could make per day at a single resort.

 

[lcml11]

Thanks for confirming my claim that there is value in ARP for VIP owners, after all back on post #50 you claimed there is none. As for larger units at Seawatch, you again have supported my assertion that you need to be in on day one of ARP to get anything other than 1-BR units. By the way, the examples you gave for early June availability would be considered late spring not summer. I have been there at that time of year and the water temperature is generally not to my liking. Again, I’m not sure what you mean by “The cure to the injustice is to switch sides.” Does this have some meaning in the Pennsylvania Dutch community?

No, just an offer to switch sides on the debate. Do not need ARP for it but I am glad to see you at least endorse family re-unions. Have used Myrtle Beach and National Harbor for these events in the past. Why take away from non-VIP owners by making it a VIP right. That would presumably significantly limit ARP availability for non-VIP if it took hold. Not to sound to paranoid, but, I do not like the idea of Big Brother Wyndham knowing who in my family is going to show up until they do. Heck, they already know if they want to who they are.

For those that do not know the implication of the phrase Big Brother, it is not Pennsylvania Dutch and is not particularly nice as a complement. Also, for those that do not know the difference between Lancaster County, Pa. and Cumberland County, Pa. A Pa. civics lesson may be in order.

A good start might be a RCI reservation in a Bluegreen Resort right next to Hershey Park, Lancaster County, Pa.

The second Pa. Civics lesson would be that Hershey Park is named after Milton Hershey. His company made/makes a bunch of candy, among other things, the Hershey bar and Hersey Kisses. May I suggest Christmas time. They have one heck of a operation for the Christmas season.

"Entrepreneur Milton Snavely Hershey was born on September 13, 1957, in Derry Township, Pennsylvania. He was the only surviving child of Veronica "Fanny" Snavely and Henry Hershey. Born on a farm outside of Derry Church, Pennsylvania—a small farming community in the central part of the state—Hershey spent the early years of his childhood trailing his father, a dreamer who always had his eye out for the next big opportunity. But Henry Hershey lacked the perseverance and work ethic to stick anything out.

By 1867, Hershey's father had largely cut himself out of the family picture. The details around his parents' separation are cloudy, but it's largely believed that Fanny, the daughter of a Mennonite clergyman, had grown tired of her husband's failures.

With Hershey's upbringing left to her, the strict Fanny instilled in her son an appreciation for hard work ..."

The Bio I got this excerpt from is wrong. He was not born in 1957.

 

[tug1873]

As long ad no one is treated any different in how they can reserve a week I do not see how they have any advantage.

All owners need to own points those points represent ownership. Mega renters I would bet own more prime weeks or at resorts that are highly sought after then most.

As long as the system is in balance there will be plenty of inventory to book. Alot those weeks may indeed be owned by them.

As long as there not treated different then I am in booking I don't see a problem. If at the 10 month mark I can't book there then it just means the owners are using there points and those points will not be competing elsewhere for point.

Also if you a vip owner wyndham isn't giving much to you other then guest certficates and the chance to grab a room cheaper. The guest certificate charge for owners is also probaly not legal if you use your home resort .

Vip membership at the most worth about 5k to me even then it's true value is limited for how I use the points. I was offered a chance for a 1million points from wyndham for 20k and thought it wasn't worth it to me. Cheapest way for vip is to take over a defaulting contract. Wyndham has bills to pay as well and they offload those to people who can assume the mortgage.

 

[Ron2]

No, just an offer to switch sides on the debate. Do not need ARP for it but I am glad to see you at least endorse family re-unions. Have used Myrtle Beach and National Harbor for these events in the past. Why take away from non-VIP owners by making it a VIP right. That would presumably significantly limit ARP availability for non-VIP if it took hold. Not to sound to paranoid, but, I do not like the idea of Big Brother Wyndham knowing who in my family is going to show up until they do. Heck, they already know if they want to who they are.

For those that do not know the implication of the phrase Big Brother, it is not Pennsylvania Dutch and is not particularly nice as a complement. Also, for those that do not know the difference between Lancaster County, Pa. and Cumberland County, Pa. A Pa. civics lesson may be in order.

A good start might be a RCI reservation in a Bluegreen Resort right next to Hershey Park, Lancaster County, Pa.

I think its best that we just agree to disagree. Its been an interesting debate and I’m sure I ticked off a few people with my comments and suggestions but just possibly a few people may even agree with me. So lets just leave it at that. By the way, that was an interesting little civics lesson that you provided. I am, however, very familiar with the difference between Lancaster and Cumberland Counties and by the way if anyone is trying to find Hershey Park in Lancaster County, they’re not going to find it – its in Dauphin County, a few miles east of Harrisburg -been there many times.

 

[jjmanthei05]

Or transfer to corporation and then sell the the stock to a new owner. There's no reason why that shouldn't work. Except that it getting around the rules. I think Wyndham would be within their rights to take away VIP if,(and this is a big if) they figure out what's happening

This does work. This may be how I got my VIP status..

Jason

 

[lcml11]

I think its best that we just agree to disagree. Its been an interesting debate and I’m sure I ticked off a few people with my comments and suggestions but just possibly a few people may even agree with me. So lets just leave it at that. By the way, that was an interesting little civics lesson that you provided. I am, however, very familiar with the difference between Lancaster and Cumberland Counties and by the way if anyone is trying to find Hershey Park in Lancaster County, they’re not going to find it – its in Dauphin County, a few miles east of Harrisburg -been there many times.

Sorry about the county thing. Daulphin was formed from Lancaster County. It is still a great place to stay and go down the way a piece and visit the Outlets (skip the Hershey outlets as a waste of time). While there visit the local furniture places and/or have the local folks make some real wood furniture to your specifications for you at prices that you would not believe and a unreal quality. Also, pick up a few dozen handmade quilts while you are there.

German is still spoken by some in this neck of the woods.