Creating a liquid timeshare resale market

[timeos2]

John:
But that is not how RCI points are structured. They are result of individual leases from deed hplders.

That is the more common sales approach used but not the only model they allow.

 

[ampaholic]

I think if we got everyone on this forum to put their Timeshares into that trust we could have a VERY impressive collection

Holy cow - I wonder just how much clout - I mean how many intervals TUG members (and guests ) control?

With that much clout TTTT (The Tug Timeshare Trust) could get a way cool deal with RCI - much like Vacation Village does.

Wheels within wheels ...

 

[bizaro86]

IF you do a week "conversion" that is correct. That is not what I'm saying helps solve the problem. I'm talking about the deeds staying in a trust - maybe even one under Association control - so no deeds are sold to new buyers. Instead you get a RTU or lease for XX years that give you XX points - backed by those Trust weeks. Thus the fee per point is the amount you pay. Get less pay less - take more & pay more. But always the same price per point. It can & does work that way.

And it doesn't have to be costly either. Remember the true cost to join RCI Points is $199. Above that is profit for the sller. If the Associations are in it to get fees & move inventory then holding the buy in very low is yet another plus to the process.

This is ultimately what needs to happen for timesharing at highly seasonal resorts to survive. If the dog weeks don't get value for their fee, they'll stop paying. Full stop, eventually that's what will happen.

If it all goes into a trust where MF is based on # of points, it can be sustainable as someone getting a prime week needs more points, and hence more MF.

The way to make this work would be to charge Blue/dog week owners a fee to join the trust. They'd do it, since it would save them fee money and give them more flexibility. Then, the HOA can take that money and use it to incent owners of prime weeks to deed them into the trust as well. Someone with a summer week (maybe worth 5k as per the example above) might take a $1500 cash payment to exchange it into the trust, since they'd get some extra flexibility plus extra $$ today.

Then each owner can take the number of points they have and use them for whatever inventory is in the trust. It also gives the HOA a great way to deal with deadbacks. Put them in the trust, and sell the points generated.

 

[Beefnot]

What specifically would be the mechanism for handling delinquent owners?

 

[ampaholic]

What specifically would be the mechanism for handling delinquent owners?

Can them and get new ones, just like now (from the HOA view) ....

 

[e.bram]

Maybe you could use the Kelo eminent domain decision to get the prime weeks. That is what it would take to get mine.

 

[am1]

So the answer is for us to creat a trust and let anyone and everyone deed their weeks into it.. Prime weeks can be deeded for free, pink weeks a small fee, white weeks a larger fee and the blue weeks a still larger fee

These fees will be used to buy more weeks for the trust so that the total inventory will be balanced, ie an equal number of red, pink, white and blue weeks.. or more importantly since we are going to deposit everything to RCI, we want a reasonable average cost per TPU...

Then the entire mess deposited to RCI to obtain a big pile of TPU

Each tpu will have a cost basis equal to the total mf of all the weeks in the trust divided by the total number of tpu ....Im betting it comes out to about $25 or less per TPU


Then we assign the tpu to whomever wants them on a onetime use basis at their calculated value plus something to provide income to the trust (and of course the trustee)

If we can charge $30/tpu those sale weeks on RCI will cost $150 plus the exchange fee or $350...a typical 12 TPU week will cost $560 or you can stay at the Manhatten club for $285 per night

What do prime week owners have to gain? Would they have a right to more TPU's and a lower cost? Why convert all to TPUs? Internal "exchanges" would work better.


The solution starts with people that go on tours and purchase understand what they are committing to. Both upfront and long-term. It does not do the other owners any good if people buy and do not understand what they purchased. Well the only good is that the informed buyers have a better chance at getting the prime weeks and good trades. The percentage of people who impulse buy and dispose of it shortly after must be high.

I do like the worldmark model where people own points and on the most part pay the same fees per point. But those are mostly going to be developer owned. With the right to inflate the points needed at new resorts instead of increasing the sales price per point.

Or a system where everyone pays an annual fee and then owners that want to use their week pay another fee. Extra inventory is rented. Offered first to owners and then to the public. Rental prices should be above what the the total cost for owners to use is. Dog week owners will own because they want a chance to rent prime units.

Or resorts maintain a higher reserve. There would be no future special assessments. Intially, everyone is paying into to the reserve fund. When people walk away they lose their week and their share of the reserve fund. The reserve fund would be large enough that the weeks have value based on that alone.

All 3 ideas involve the developers. They are the ones that can control this. They will only change their ways if it will make them more money. These ideas will only make them more money if people stop impulse buying. People will only stop impulse buying if they are educated. Very few people buy a car, house, or even unimportant stuff in 90 minutes.

One thing is clear that there will be a of lot timeshare resorts that go under. Probably a few developers.

I really do not think the economy has a lot to do with this. With the current model there will always be owners unhappy with their timeshare. The upside to the recession was that it slowed down the construction of new timeshares.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Aren't what you guys are talking about with Trusts basically vacation clubs? You pay a membership fee(or give in a week) to have access to all the weeks available in the trust?

 

[ronparise]

Aren't what you guys are talking about with Trusts basically vacation clubs? You pay a membership fee(or give in a week) to have access to all the weeks available in the trust?

Call it a Vacation Club or Timeshare Dump. or Non Profit PCC, I might even call it The Viking Ship Vacation Club..(VSVC for short) I dont care...Its a device to hold the deeds and provide the benefits of timeshares without the responsibility of ownership...

 

[ampaholic]

What do prime week owners have to gain? Would they have a right to more TPU's and a lower cost? Why convert all to TPUs? Internal "exchanges" would work better.

Please re-read, we were talking about mandating all intervals (even the prime red ones) into the points system.

At the very least there would need to be tremendous pressure for the prime interval owners to "play along" with the creation or expansion of the points structure.

But now we have moved along to the Viking Ship Vacation Club - I'm excited, I'll be able to tell my grand kids I was there at it's birth!!!

 

[am1]

Please re-read, we were talking about mandating all intervals (even the prime red ones) into the points system.

At the very least there would need to be tremendous pressure for the prime interval owners to "play along" with the creation or expansion of the points structure.

I still do not follow. If you think prime week owners will give up their rights to their week to help out the mud week owners you are wasting your time. Remember that prime week owners paid a lot more for their weeks to the developer than the mud week owners did.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I still do not follow. If you think prime week owners will give up their rights to their week to help out the mud week owners you are wasting your time. Remember that prime week owners paid a lot more for their weeks to the developer than the mud week owners did.

This gives prime weeks owners access to hundreds if not thousands of other prime weeks, without the on going commitment of purchasing those weeks...seems like a win/win for prime weeks owners...

 

[e.bram]

Ride:
How many prime oceanfront units exist within driving distance < 250 miles of us? Why should I give up mine to spend a whole day driving to the TS.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Ride:
How many prime oceanfront units exist within driving distance < 250 miles of us?

400,000........

 

[timeos2]

Ride:
How many prime oceanfront units exist within driving distance < 250 miles of us? Why should I give up mine to spend a whole day driving to the TS.

Not every prime owner - even oceanfront - is as fixated on the specific location or nearness to a body of water as you are. Even those that were at one time may have aged or tired of just one spot & now are looking for a good, reliable way to try other prime or even not so prime but at least different locations.

Some focus way too much on what appeals to them and fail to recognize that it doesn't reflect the user world at large. That leads to a misinterpretation of what may or may not work on a large scale basis.

 

[timeos2]

I still do not follow. If you think prime week owners will give up their rights to their week to help out the mud week owners you are wasting your time. Remember that prime week owners paid a lot more for their weeks to the developer than the mud week owners did.

They are giving them up now in far too many cases by paying someone to take what they could have sold themselves! Give them an option that returns a better value than believing they need to use scam artists to "sell" and they are likely to take it. It won't be overnight - it will happen gradually - but thats part of the beauty. It isn't all or none it allows a slow transfer over time from weeks to a trust/RTU model as owners want to give up what they enjoyed for many reasons.

Developers already figured out that this is a more sustainable model - why aren't Associations wising up? (Some are...)

 

[ace2000]

400,000........

You sure? I counted 398,387 of them. Can you recheck?

 

[ronparise]

I still do not follow. If you think prime week owners will give up their rights to their week to help out the mud week owners you are wasting your time. Remember that prime week owners paid a lot more for their weeks to the developer than the mud week owners did.

Sure a few. But I assume no one will want to dump their red week but some may want to sell

I suggest that if you want to dump your blue week you would have to pay a fee, the fee being enough money to buy a red week...or for every blue week you want to get rid of, you have give up one of your prime weeks as well

I would guess the VSVC would be a buyer of Prime Weeks, providing liquidity and a fair price to that corner of the market as well

 

[strandlover]

Very interesting thread that I have been following. A couple of thoughts come to mind:

1) This so-called trust, vacation club, whatever you wanna call it is merely a microcosm of ebay: a venue for people to dump their timeshares, no matter the color. I have difficulty seeing how this is better than ebay in the long run.

2) With floating weeks timeshares ex Massanutten 1-52, Sheraton Broadway Plantation 9-43, who is going to ensure timely deposits to ensure maximum TPU? Employees of the trust? They are not free. How motivated will these employees be make sure that the trust gets the biggest bang for the buck?

3) If the trust is loaded with lame ducks, and it will be, the special assessments could topple the trust.

I share the opinion of many that owners of flaming red weeks will not go hog wild over this idea. There are more options available to them as the ecomony goes through its cycles. Rent for more than the MF in good times, deposit in RCI to get several shoulder weeks, or simply use the red week.

 

[timeos2]

Welcome to the new TUG Viking Ship Vacation Club

​

Tired of the hassles of messy and expensive timeshare ownership? Looking for a less expensive option to trade into great locations for low ball rates?

Then the Viking Ship Vacation Club may be for YOU!

Just look at these features:

• No maintenance fees except those due!
• Trade to anywhere we have space!
• Upgrades available just like RCI of lore!
• No costly developer overhead!
• Dump your obligations on us - we LOVE it!
• Rentals available 0- heck, we may pay you to rent!

And much much more.



Just our Oceanfront Condos in Orlando alone make this a deal you have to experience to believe!*


Join now - for only three prime summer beachfront weeks you too may be able to get up to three luxury bedrooms in an most likely un-tornado damaged section of bustling Branson or even a converted motel in Williamsburg in a couple of slightly lesser demands months each year!



Join now before all the really muddy weeks are snapped up!



* Oceanview is defined as having an ocean no less than 2000 miles away. Using modern satellite technology and your own personal access device such as a Hilton supplied iPad, must be Board member of selected Hilton resorts, you can easily see the ocean from your own unit!

 

[KarenP]

I love a good sense of humor!!!!:hysterical:

 

[Ridewithme38]

3) If the trust is loaded with lame ducks, and it will be, the special assessments could topple the trust.

I think this can be kept from happening pretty easy by charging a rather large fee to put a 'lame duck' or even a shoulder week into the trust/vacation club...with that large fee the trust/vacation club manager can puchase many 'flaming red weeks' off ebay or be used as an offering 'incentive' to people who own 'flaming red weeks' to join the trust....

Really its a win/win...If your in your 80's and money is getting tight, deed your 'flaming red' week over to the Trust/Vacation Club and still vacation, but don't worry about your kids having to deal with it in the long run

2) With floating weeks timeshares ex Massanutten 1-52, Sheraton Broadway Plantation 9-43, who is going to ensure timely deposits to ensure maximum TPU? Employees of the trust? They are not free. How motivated will these employees be make sure that the trust gets the biggest bang for the buck?

This is a good question that i'm not sure how will end up working out...Heck, we have dozens of members on Tug that had previously donated their time to serve on a HOA/POA/BOD, so we know people here like to help for free...maybe for a membership to the Trust/Vacation Club, they will be willing to donate time to us, Maybe one member per system calling in 30-50 reservations at a time? Can you make that many reservations over one phone call with systems like Sheraton when all the deeds are in the same trust/vacation club name?

 

[strandlover]

This is a good question that i'm not sure how will end up working out...Heck, we have dozens of members on Tug that had previously donated their time to serve on a HOA/POA/BOD, maybe for a membership to the Trust/Vacation Club, they will be willing to donate time to us, Maybe one member per system calling in 30-50 reservations at a time? Can you make that many reservations over one phone call with systems like Sheraton when all the deeds are in the same trust/vacation club name?

Sure I can! It would go something like this:

2013
Me: Hello SBP I have just wired you $60K for usage on 50 SBP weeks. Gimme 10 units each for weeks 26, 27, 28, 29, 30.

System: Ummm.. let me see what I have.. OK.. done

2014
Me: Hello SBP I have just wired you $66K for usage on 50 SBP weeks. Gimme 10 units each for weeks 26, 27, 28, 29, 30.

System: Sorry, no more than 5 summer weeks per owner.

Game over.

 

[e.bram]

How about the Flying Dutchamn instead of the Viking Ship. The Dutchman sails the seas with the Devil at is helm scooping up lost souls(TSes in this case)?

 

[Ridewithme38]

Sure I can! It would go something like this:

2013
Me: Hello SBP I have just wired you $60K for usage on 50 SBP weeks. Gimme 10 units each for weeks 26, 27, 28, 29, 30.

System: Ummm.. let me see what I have.. OK.. done

2014
Me: Hello SBP I have just wired you $66K for usage on 50 SBP weeks. Gimme 10 units each for weeks 26, 27, 28, 29, 30.

System: Sorry, no more than 5 summer weeks per owner.

Game over.

SBP is a special case, they have fixed weeks attached to the deeds that you can reserve 24 months in advance....If they don't give you your fixed week when calling in 24 months ahead...I would raise hell