Ebay pricing not reflective of true resale value

[Carolinian]

There are really two types of timeshare resale markets, the one aimed at exchangers who are looking mostly at trading power and the one aimed at those who are buying to use at their own resort. I have not seen figures nationally, but for the area I am familiar with, the NC Outer Banks, the resale buyers looking for a week to use fars exceeds the resale buyers looking for a week to exchange. The latter tends to look at a more national market like eBay while the former often uses a more localized market. That is a big part of the explanation of why their are different prices in different markets. The whole series of disenhancement of exchanging by RCI have been part of what has depressed the market for exchange weeks, so places they tend to be sold like eBay have taken the biggest hit. eBay is generally only a tiny, tiny fraction of each local resale market, and only has large numbers overall by putting together those tiny fractions from each local market. The localized markets are not aggragated anywhere, but if they were, eBay would be a bit player in the overall scheme of things in timeshare resale.

Seems kinda rude, Joe. Maybe not outright dishonest, but certainly on the borderline.

Overall true market value is neither the lowest price you can buy something for nor the highest price you can sell something for.

It's something in between.

But the folks who argue against eBay overlook the fact that eBay is a huge, huge part of setting what the true market value is. The more "bargain" sales there are on eBay, the lower the true market value is.

Nothing has done more to lower median or average selling price - or true market value - than eBay.

 

[MOXJO7282]

As I read the first post, the OP bought the TS on eBay but tested the selling waters on Redweek.

Cheers!

Its as simple as that. To suggest that is unsavory is just silly. I have my young family's best interest in mind I don't owe anything to anyone else.

So was I to sell at a lower price than what I could get? Everytime I received an offer I realized I was too low and politely made up a story to save someone feelings.

I'm sure all you on the moral high ground would have sold at $9200 on principle right? Yeah I'll buy that one. I didn't know what it was worth so I used a "process" to determine and I must admit it worked well.

Anyone faced with my situation would have looked out for their own interest just like I did, if they were smart.

 

[Carolinian]

Agreed.

Here is an analysis I recently did on the local timeshare resell market on the Outer Banks:

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...es-test-t-s-resells-down-only-marginally.html

For comparision, the prime red weeks there usually sell on ebay for something a bit over $2K, which as you can see from the data is significantly less than they bring through other venues.

There has always been a notion that ebay reflects the true resale costs of a timeshare. I've argued against the notion but it was easy for the others to challenge me because they had plenty of examples from ebay to promote their position and those that beleived otherwise don't so it was a very one-sided argument.

Well I can say in my recent ebay is clearly a buyer's market and doesn't come close to reflecting true resale value. MY cases in point, involved the Marriott Grande Ocean Gold OF weeks I bought on ebay for $7500. After purchasing, for a test I listed on Redweek.com the same unit at $9250, then $11,250, then $12500, then $13250. I received almost immediate offers at each price point and from ifferent people and just recently agreed to sell at the $13,250 price point.

So in a matter of a few months I flipped a ebay purchase for a few dollars. Actually to avoid tax implications I'm officially selling the unit I bought in 2007 for $13,800 and keeping the 2 OF Gold units recently purchased on ebay.

 

[timeos2]

WHAT??

When an insurance company totals/junks a vehicle the vehicle is titled as such and can not be driven on the road as no BMV will plate the vehicle. However, the vehicle can be repaired and made road worthy, once inspected by the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) the BMV will issue a new title for the vehicle - that title will be a "Salvage Title". IE: the car has been in some type of previous incident (wreck, flood, stolen and stripped, etc) however it has been repaired and is deemed safe and legal to drive and sell. Salvage titled vehicles occur all across the US and are common and legal. Since the title clearly says "SALVAGE" on it, the only way you would be duped is if you can't read.

Just one of at least 2 dozen recent stories about salvage/junk vehicles - due to flooding - and how they are magically "cleansed" through multiple state registrations to gain much higher, non-damaged pricing. It is a well known scam and one that will be in big use with all the recent Mississippi flooding in so many areas. These are operations that do not follow the rules and simply use cheap methods to resell a flood car - especially high end luxury or performance cars - as undamaged.

 

[ampaholic]

Honestly you shouldn't let things bother you so easily.

So if you were interested in my week and contacted me and I told you "sorry its sold and by the way so you know I'm leaving the ad up to test the market to see if I sold to low" that would annoy you?

Anyone who would get annoyed or think thats unethical or rude needs to lighten up and enjoy looking at the postive side of life.

I suppose we here should disregard that by telling them it was sold you were lying to them (by your own admission)?

We have so called "gypsy" car dealers here in Spokane and lying to "marks" is considered OK by them.

I would encourage you to not do that Joe, I think you're better than that.

 

[jbcoug]

Joe,

All is forgiven, I didn't realize you just had your young families best interest in mind. I also appreciate that you only "politely made up a story to save someones feelings", several times. That was really nice of you. Most of us don't mind being lied to once we realize its to protect our feelings.

I'm glad you had a "process" so you didn't feel like you got shafted. Just for your information, some people have another process that they use when they aren't sure of value. They start high and work thier way down. They usually get as much as the market will give and do it without making up polite stories.

In closing, I'd have to say that the term unsavory fits pretty well. It doesn't mean illegal, it simply means that something is tasteless, socially objectionable or undesirable. Deceit is all of these things.

But, whatever works for you.

John

 

[Carolinian]

If we could avoid the personality issues and moralizing, we could get to the real issue as to timesharing, that eBay is a bargain basement which is good for buying, but is not the best for selling because it will usually get you less that what other markets would, especially on a good week. That is the real take away from this thread.

 

[ondeadlin]

Its as simple as that. To suggest that is unsavory is just silly. I have my young family's best interest in mind I don't owe anything to anyone else.

So was I to sell at a lower price than what I could get? Everytime I received an offer I realized I was too low and politely made up a story to save someone feelings.

I'm sure all you on the moral high ground would have sold at $9200 on principle right? Yeah I'll buy that one. I didn't know what it was worth so I used a "process" to determine and I must admit it worked well.

Anyone faced with my situation would have looked out for their own interest just like I did, if they were smart.

You're creating a false choice, i.e. equating being honest with selling low. No one expects you to sell low or believes you have an obligation to sell low.

What people have a right to expect, though, is honesty.

And, in this case, Joe, you're a liar. You lied to multiple people, multiple times. And then you bragged about it. When I see you posting on TUG, the first thing I'll think of is this story. That's who you are to me - someone who has a very different view of honesty than I do. It's a shame, because I'm sure you have redeeming qualities, but all I know about you from this forum is that you think it's OK to lie to people for your own gain.

It's really no different than shill bidding on your own auction on eBay, a practice that is despised on TUG.

Next time just list the week high and then lower the price if it doesn't sell. That's what honest sellers do.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Selling a known flood vehicle that has been paid for and declared junk by an insurance settlement (which most are) is a Federal crime! I wouldn't be on any public BBS (or anywhere else) saying (bragging?) I did it (and made money to boot!), If I did it it would be because I didn't know ihad been duped into buying such a car & was selling it thinking it was OK - if I had actual knowledge that it was a flood vehicle I'd assume I'd been had & at best could go after whoever sold it to me not trying to pawn it off on the next unsuspecting victim. Again, it's a crime to do so (besides being of questionable ethics or worse).

This is just completely wrong information...you can absolutly sell a car that has a salvage title...

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Typed A Mouthful.

This is just completely wrong information...you can absolutly sell a car that has a salvage title.

The reqirement (far as I know) is full disclosure.

In July 2002, we bought a cute little eBay 2002 PT Cruiser, top of the line, that the eBay seller readily admitted had been damaged & repaired -- full up front disclosure -- even though at the time the title status was OK. Ditto the CarFax report.

It was a near-new used car -- 369 miles on the odometer.

After a couple of years, we received notification from office of the Virginia Attorney General that our car & hundreds of others sold in Virginia & other states had been delivered with OK titles even though total-loss claims had previously been paid on those cars. (Ours had its hood & front bumper cover & 1 front fender replaced after shipping damage -- I'm guessing somebody had an ooopsie moment unloading the car off an 18-wheel car hauler.)

The official letter said we might be in line to receive settlement money from the insurance company involved, also that our car's title status would be revised in due time. Or we could opt out of the class action & not receive any money, but the title status on the car would be revised anyway. We opted in. After several months, we got a nice check for $3,500 or so. The title status did change, but only in the records down at DMV (& on CarFax) -- we did not receive a new, revised-status title certificate.

Fast-forward to 2011. We got tired of the car & advertised it for sale on Craig's List. When a buyer from Baltimore MD showed up, we described the whole attorney general letter saga. The buyer was OK with that. In the Bill Of Sale (signed by seller & buyer both), a paragraph was included to the effect that the buyer acknowledged disclosure by the seller of the Virginia Office Of Attorney General business related to that car. The buyer handed over the cash. We handed over the signed original title certificate & the keys. Case closed.

During the time we had the car, there were no crash-related troubles other than 2 bad front tires -- bad, I believe, because of impact damage from falling off the car transport truck. We had a few new car warranty issues that were handled by the manufacturer with no hesitation & no trouble.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Dave*H]

After purchasing, for a test I listed on Redweek.com the same unit at $9250, then $11,250, then $12500, then $13250. I received almost immediate offers at each price point and from ifferent people and just recently agreed to sell at the $13,250 price point.

Regardless of whether this is ethical, if too many people do this, it diminishes the value of Redweek and the timeshare resale market in general. If too many people do this buyers can get frustrated and decide to purchase elsewhere (diminishing the value of Redweek) or decide purchasing a timeshare is too much hassle (diminishing the value of the resale market). You may have even diminished the value of your sale. If the first buyer to come along was will to pay $15K for a unit listed for $9250, you would have turned them away and they likely wouldn't have come back with another offer at the higher price points. More likely, they figured something fishy was going on and moved on.

Like another poster, I purchased a Redweek membership in response to a listing I was interested in. Turned out the unit was no longer available which was absurd because it had only been listed for a couple of hours and wasn't a high value resort. I was only interested because I was fine with the resort and had been waiting for a particular week. I haven't renewed my Redweek membership since and will be much more apprehensive to do so in the future.

In the end, too much of this activity costs all those involved with selling.

 

[scotus]

You're creating a false choice, i.e. equating being honest with selling low. No one expects you to sell low or believes you have an obligation to sell low.

What people have a right to expect, though, is honesty.

And, in this case, Joe, you're a liar. You lied to multiple people, multiple times. And then you bragged about it. When I see you posting on TUG, the first thing I'll think of is this story. That's who you are to me - someone who has a very different view of honesty than I do. It's a shame, because I'm sure you have redeeming qualities, but all I know about you from this forum is that you think it's OK to lie to people for your own gain.

It's really no different than shill bidding on your own auction on eBay, a practice that is despised on TUG.

Next time just list the week high and then lower the price if it doesn't sell. That's what honest sellers do.

Well said.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Typed A Mouthful.

Market Value is defined as the amount a willing buyer will pay and a willing seller will accept.

Far as I know, eBay is the closest thing to a buy-sell clearinghouse for timeshare resales, notwithstanding the existence of other brick-&-mortar & virtual buy-sell venues (RedWeek, etc. & Orlando & Massanutten & Gatlinburg storefronts, etc.).

"Market value" for timeshares, if such a thing could be determined, would be an up-to-date average of all current & recent completed sale prices -- all of'm, including storefront sales & RedWeek, etc., not just eBay.

Trouble is, nobody compiles comprehensive information like that. Closest thing to it for ready reference is eBay, although by me eBay prices can be regarded mainly as benchmark values & not strictly as the true "market" price (because big & well known as it is, eBay is not the entire market, just the market of choice for savvy buyers).

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[unavailable55]

Personal opinion

This was a great idea, the execution was flawed.

If you can buy from one seller and re-sell in another market, for a profit, it's a good idea and that has happened for years in many areas of trade. I commend the OP for the trial. Certainly an entepreneur could make profit doing that very thing.

 

[MOXJO7282]

If we could avoid the personality issues and moralizing, we could get to the real issue as to timesharing, that eBay is a bargain basement which is good for buying, but is not the best for selling because it will usually get you less that what other markets would, especially on a good week. That is the real take away from this thread.

Thank you. That sums up my point. This was meant to be informative thread until the moral police highjacked it.

I really do get a kick of those that personalize by name calling and so forth, and look only to knock people down. I understand some feel better when they do that so I'm glad I gave them an opportunity to do so.

I've been a target for a long time because some people hate my Marriott portfolio and my approach, but I make no apologies at all. You'll notice its the usual suspects for the most part that criticizes and like to stir up stuff. If you look at the history of those involved in the negative comments you'll see what I mean. I'll continue to take the high road as I alwasy have in my time with TUG.

Anyway I love all the respectful people of TUG, even the ones that disagree. I feel I'm a small piece of what makes TUG awesome and I think at times I can provide some valuable information related to high-end beach Marriotts. So for those that don't like Marriotts and my approach, sorry.

 

[Tia]

A thick skin is required at times when on the internet, and other places too, when people put varied personal values on things.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Resemble That Remark.

I love all the respectful people of TUG, even the ones that disagree.

Same here -- & that even goes for the semi-disrespectful ones who have (infrequently) lobbed slings & arrows.

Full Disclosure: Some of the TUG-BBS bomb throwers went so far over the top that they got themselves 86d by the Grand Pro. Meanwhile, the rest of us just keep chugging along in our happy-go-lucky & semi-whimsical way. Is this a great web site or what?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[tombo]

Its as simple as that. To suggest that is unsavory is just silly. I have my young family's best interest in mind I don't owe anything to anyone else. .

I would teach my children to do what I say I will do. Make my word my bond. If I advertise my week for $5000 and someone agrees to buy at the price I LISTED IT FOR, I would sell it. If I find out that I sold it too cheap it is my fault for offering it for sale for that price, not the person's problem who agreed to buy it at the price point I chose.

So was I to sell at a lower price than what I could get? Everytime I received an offer I realized I was too low and politely made up a story to save someone feelings.

Isn't that special. I am sure that Bernie Madoff made up many stories to "save people's feelings".

I'm sure all you on the moral high ground would have sold at $9200 on principle right? Yeah I'll buy that one. I didn't know what it was worth so I used a "process" to determine and I must admit it worked well.

Anyone faced with my situation would have looked out for their own interest just like I did, if they were smart.

Once I list it for sale I have no problem moving the price up or down UNTIL I get a buyer. When a buyer agrees to buy FOR THE PRICE I WAS ASKING, IT IS A SALE. Once a buyer agrees to buy it is too late MORALLY for me to decide I was selling it too cheap. To change the price after a buyer agrees to buy it is called "bait and switch". It is what shady sales people do.

If you can't decide what your week is worth, list it as make me an offer, or sell it in an auction format like e-bay to the highest bidder. Once you list it for sale at a price of your choosing you should sell it for the price you advertised it.

E-bay has 3 choices, auction where it sells for highest bid, auction with reserve where you can set a hidden minimum selling price, and a buy it now price. You listed yours for sale at a buy it now price and didn't honor your ad. You would be banned from selling on e-bay for repeated offenses if you had done it there instead of on Redweek.

If you went to the store to buy a laptop for the advertised price of $399 and the store said we decided we could get more for this model and it will cost you $699, I doubt you would consider that a good sales practice or tell friends that the store was operating in a professional manner. I bet you would be mad. But perhaps the sales clerk could make up some story to save your feelings.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I would teach my children to do what I say I will do. Make my word my bond. If I advertise my week for $5000 and someone agrees to buy at the price I LISTED IT FOR, I would sell it. If I find out that I sold it too cheap it is my fault for offering it for sale for that price, not the person's problem who agreed to buy it at the price pont I chose.



Isn't that special. I am sure that Bernie Madoff made up many stories to "save people's feelings".



Once I list it for sale I have no problem moving the price up or down UNTIL I get a buyer. When a buyer agrees to buy FOR THE PRICE I WAS ASKING, IT IS A SALE. Once a buyer agrees to buy it is too late MORALLY for me to decide I was selling it too cheap. To change the price after a buyer agrees to buy it is called "bait and switch". It is what shady sales people do.

If you can't decide what your week is worth, list it as make me an offer, or sell it in an auction format like e-bay to the highest bidder. Once you list it for sale at a price of your choosing you should sell it for the price you advertised it. E-bay has 3 choices, auction where it sells for highest bid, auction with reserve where you can set a hidden minimum selling price, and a buy it now price. You listed yours for sale at a buy it now price and didn't honor your ad.

If you went to the store to buy a laptop for the advertised price of $399 and the store said we decided we could get more for this model and it will cost you $699, I doubt you would consider that a good sales practice or tell friends that the store was operating in a professional manner. I bet you would be mad. But perhaps the sales clerk could make up some story to save your feelings.

This stuff is priceless. So now I'm being called a bad parent and compared to Madoff. :hysterical:

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Typed A Big Mouthful.

Once I list it for sale I have no problem moving the price up or down UNTIL I get a buyer. When a buyer agrees to buy FOR THE PRICE I WAS ASKING, IT IS A SALE. Once a buyer agrees to buy it is too late MORALLY for me to decide I was selling it too cheap. To change the prices is called "bait and switch". It is what shady sales people do.

You are correct, sir -- bigtime.

If I undersell an item, that's on me. Ditto if I underprice an item.

Sometimes I bite the bear & sometimes the bear bites me. That's just how it goes.

A big advantage of eBay & other auction formats is the reduced chance of underpricing a valuable item. eBay is so big & so heavily populated with savvy buyers that it's getting to be rare when a sale goes through at an unrealistically low price. Sure, it still happens & can happen again, but more & more rarely.

The 2 times I got taken to the cleaners selling eBay horns consisted of 1 (the 1 pictured -- a customized Yamaha YHR-668) that I listed no reserve for $999.99. It got just 1 bid. The buyer sent in a "proxy" bid (I found out later, from the buyer) of $1,500 expecting that somebody else would bid higher. She was semi-flabbergasted to win at exactly the opening bid amount. She thought the horn would sell for $1,800 or so. Me too. But it didn't. So it goes.

The other time was when I grossly overpaid for the horn in the 1st place. When I got tired of it, I was plenty satisfied to unload the unloved instrument via eBay for not much more than 1/2 what I had in it (purchase price + repairs & custom modifications).

Live & learn, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[MOXJO7282]

So let me recap

I wanted to get an understanding of the value of my TS so I used a old ad to test the market. I fibbed to the people that inquiried to spare them and finally did accept $13250 when the offer became to good to ignore.



For that I'm called a liar, dishonest, braggard, ebay disser, unethical, Madoff like and a bad parent.

One last note to those that made those nice comments.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!!

 

[tombo]

So let me recap

I fibbed to the people that inquiried .....



For that I'm called a liar, dishonest,....

Good summary.

Have a great weekend.

 

[Carolinian]

However, when it comes to timeshare, when you compare eBay sales prices to those from other venues, those at eBay are usually substantially lower. That is good to know because if you want to buy it is a great place to do so, but if you want to sell you are a fool to use it.

The OP hit the nail on the head, inspite of the off topic personal comments by the morality police. And curiously, some of the morality police seem to have no problem which much more serious lapses by RCI, so it is all relative.

You are correct, sir -- bigtime.

If I undersell an item, that's on me. Ditto if I underprice an item.

Sometimes I bite the bear & sometimes the bear bites me. That's just how it goes.

A big advantage of eBay & other auction formats is the reduced chance of underpricing a valuable item. eBay is so big & so heavily populated with savvy buyers that it's getting to be rare when a sale goes through at an unrealistically low price. Sure, it still happens & can happen again, but more & more rarely.

The 2 times I got taken to the cleaners selling eBay horns consisted of 1 (the 1 pictured -- a customized Yamaha YHR-668) that I listed no reserve for $999.99. It got just 1 bid. The buyer sent in a "proxy" bid (I found out later, from the buyer) of $1,500 expecting that somebody else would bid higher. She was semi-flabbergasted to win at exactly the opening bid amount. She thought the horn would sell for $1,800 or so. Me too. But it didn't. So it goes.

The other time was when I grossly overpaid for the horn in the 1st place. When I got tired of it, I was plenty satisfied to unload the unloved instrument via eBay for not much more than 1/2 what I had in it (purchase price + repairs & custom modifications).

Live & learn, eh ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Elan]

I posted this last year when this very topic came up, and I still believe it to be true:

"My thoughts are that resale timeshare sales prices, if plotted, would be bimodal. There would be one mode for those that are aware of timeshare resales on eBay, and another mode for those that aren't. I don't think that eBay should be discarded as a representative market just because a certain percentage of potential timeshare buyers are uneducated."

I would add that I also agree with Boca in that neither market is particularly efficient due to lack of volume.

 

[ampaholic]

Thank you. That sums up my point. This was meant to be informative thread until the moral police highjacked it.

Hey, YOU are the one who brought up the "fibbing" to prospective buyers.

I'll continue to take the high road as I alwasy have in my time with TUG.

I am actually quite amazed you said this - when you find yourself in too deep of a hole, quit digging.