Coylumbridge Scotland Purchase

[Eric B]

I get my numbers from an egg carton, which is always dark until I open the lid.
.

That is why you always have things eggsactly right. Now I understand.

I get my numbers out of the refrigerator. I think the light is out when the door is closed, but haven’t been able to verify that….

 

[Cyberc]

Anyone know the consequences of not paying for maintenance fees starting in 2024 if wanting to get out these coylumbridge holiday contracts as presumably they will be hard to sell.

If you don’t pay, they will eventually take back you week(s) if you are located in the UK/Scotland/Ireland it might be easier for them to try and collect the debt.

 

[Sky313]

If you don’t pay, they will eventually take back you week(s) if you are located in the UK/Scotland/Ireland it might be easier for them to try and collect the debt.

any idea if it will affect one's credit rating if i'm US based?

 

[Cyberc]

any idea if it will affect one's credit rating if i'm US based?

My best guesstimate is that it won’t. I think collecting funds abroad is very cost consuming and then it might just be easier to take back the ownership.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

These are RTU's, not deeds so less paperwork to cancel the contract but is it worth a lawyers fees to chase $600 - $800 per year MF internationally? Most lawyers I know start at at least $1000 - $3000 retainer just to get started on domestic cases in the USA. And what are they going to do? Write letters? Call? The resort would be spending HOA money on lawyers and recover nothing.

However, I am not a lawyer and would love a lawyer to weigh in.

If the HOA was wise, they would simply accept deedbacks (RTU cancellation) from the reportedly 10% of HGVC enrolled owners and call it "no harm, no foul." It's not the HGV enrolled owners fault this happened.

 

[ocdb8r]

I think that Craigendarroch does use a debt collection agency in the US; I think they report to credit bureaus and attempt to collect for 2-3 years and then throw in the towel. Agreed it wouldn't make sense for them to pursue it to a court judgment, but using a debt collection service that just takes a cut doesn't cost them much to make some attempt at recovery. Remember, they've got HGVC connections/resources to assist.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

duplicate deleted.

 

[ocdb8r]

Did the Coylumbridge Owners Committee ever say anything to owners after their meeting with HGVC on Friday?

 

[Cyberc]

Did the Coylumbridge Owners Committee ever say anything to owners after their meeting with HGVC on Friday?

There were supposed to come with a statement, but nothing have been sent yet.

 

[ocdb8r]

There is a note on the Craig owners website now:

From your Chairman
It was announced by HGV on 1 November that it will end its management agreement with Coylumbridge with effect from 1 February. This note is to reassure owners that there is no cause for concern at Craigendarroch. The news arises from circumstances that are unique to Coylumbridge – which I understand – and does not affect or change HGV’s management relationship with other Scottish resorts.

I sought specific assurance on this from Neil Hutchinson, Senior Vice President at HGV, and he replied as follows: ‘Please rest assured that HGV is fully committed to continuing our relationship with Craigendarroch Lodges. We are pleased with the continued improvement in our working relationship with your committee and owners’.

Peter Drury
Chairman

 

[GT75]

There were supposed to come with a statement, but nothing have been sent yet.

I am also surprised that we haven't received an email yet. I don't know what that means.

 

[CrazyAsian]

There is a note on the Craig owners website now:

From your Chairman
It was announced by HGV on 1 November that it will end its management agreement with Coylumbridge with effect from 1 February. This note is to reassure owners that there is no cause for concern at Craigendarroch. The news arises from circumstances that are unique to Coylumbridge – which I understand – and does not affect or change HGV’s management relationship with other Scottish resorts.

I sought specific assurance on this from Neil Hutchinson, Senior Vice President at HGV, and he replied as follows: ‘Please rest assured that HGV is fully committed to continuing our relationship with Craigendarroch Lodges. We are pleased with the continued improvement in our working relationship with your committee and owners’.

Peter Drury
Chairman

Would you still buy into Craigendarroch after this statement?

 

[dayooper]

Would you still buy into Craigendarroch after this statement?

Great question! I’m not sure I can
Answer that as my better half most definitely would not.

 

[Elster]

COY emailed me to respond to my note to them seeking some clarifications, as I own 2 properties there - to quote "It was a complete bolt out of the blue when we were given the news by HGV management on Tuesday"

 

[escanoe]

I am also surprised that we haven't received an email yet. I don't know what that means.

I am a TUGer that thinks We may be a little too prone to talk about lawsuits. But I could see them being a bit worried abt litigation. I’m doubtful they were as taken by surprise by HGVC’s decision as has been represented here.

They were selling these things right up until the day it happened like there was no tomorrow. On top of that, the value of one of the certificates for all current owners (as determined by the resale market) is likely nose-diving. They are wise to take a minute and think abt what they put on an official communication.

 

[Lodemia]

Sue had literally sent me two more weeks to consider the night before. The night before…

 

[Lodemia]

My challenge with this is that it wasn’t the Colyumbridge owners club that was reselling, it was HGVC UK. There’s a lot of ways they can handle this and a lot of things Hilton could offer to make it right.

 

[Nowaker]

As part of the purchasing process of Coy, I was sent a Q&A. This is question number 1:

Security, biatch! I feel reassured now.

 

[Elster]

My challenge with this is that it wasn’t the Colyumbridge owners club that was reselling, it was HGVC UK. There’s a lot of ways they can handle this and a lot of things Hilton could offer to make it right.

You're totally right , as the management of COY and the HGV were always treated (and rightly so) like separate businesses ... which of course they were. HGV COY need to answer some questions here around what they intend to actually do for us ... I'd have expected HGVC to treat their owners better

 

[Roamer]

Sue had literally sent me two more weeks to consider the night before. The night before…

I stayed at the Coylumbridge Hotel about 6 weeks ago and had gone in to see Sue. She wasn't working that day, but she did send me some weeks that were available, none of which I was keen on. Rather glad she never followed up with any other units.

This does put me off considering Craigendarroch.

 

[Cyberc]

As part of the purchasing process of Coy, I was sent a Q&A. This is question number 1:

View attachment 68126

Security, biatch! I feel reassured now.

I dont know if the owners committee has any legal standing here. HGV has sold all the weeks with their names on all the paper work. Question is can they just back out, without any compensation/grandfathering to/of buyers which bought their ownership in good faith?

I'm still keen on knowing WHY this went down as it did.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMO...The Committee has a role based on the constitution for COY. How that works between the HC holder and the committee will depend on the constitution. Is the Committee working on behalf of the deeded property owners (i.e. The Scottish corporation that owns the lands and buildings) to collect maintenance fees and hire/manage the management company (HGV)? or for the benefit of the HC RTU holders?

re: what happened. I believe there are 2 sides to this story. I am having a hard time believing that the Committee was blindsided by HGV. The signals were there with the Hilton hotel pulling out, low customer reviews of the resort, and only 10% reported enrollment in HGV. It also sounds like there were significant disagreements based on the Q&A, most likely over more money needed to renovate the property up to standards.

Could it be

a) Denial?

b) In protection of the Coy HC owners interests. With Apollo/Diamond now involved, which are known for less than ideal practices, perhaps they were asking for egregious terms in the new management contract and the Committee pushed back. Disagreements are not always bad.

c) Dereliction of duty by the Committee in not keeping the property up to Hilton standards and not realizing the changing dynamic with their management company (HGV)?

d) Purposeful. Perhaps with majority of non-HGV enrolled owners pushing for lower cost management and MF, forcing HGV to drop them was the only easy way to change management companies without a shareholder vote.


Despite this, I am shocked that HGV is not grandfathering their enrolled customers similar to other affiliates they have disengaged with in the past. The HC holders have nothing to do with these issues and bought the property in good faith based on the HGV brand.

 

[ocdb8r]

IMO...The Committee has a role based on the constitution for COY. How that works between the HC holder and the committee will depend on the constitution. Is the Committee working on behalf of the deeded property owners (i.e. The Scottish corporation that owns the lands and buildings) to collect maintenance fees and hire/manage the management company (HGV)? or for the benefit of the HC RTU holders?

I posted this upthread. There is not a "corporation" that is the deeded owner of the property. It is held in a trust, for the benefit of all the Holiday Certificate holders. They are the sole beneficiaries to the trust and the Committee's role is to administer the property (hire a management company for the lodges, set the budget for expenditure, collect maintenance fees and pay the debts of the Club and associated trust). The constitution also provides for what should happen in the event of any liquidation of the assets of the trust (which provides to distribution of any proceeds to Holiday Certificate owners).

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I posted this upthread. There is not a "corporation" that is the deeded owner of the property. It is held in a trust, for the benefit of all the Holiday Certificate holders. They are the sole beneficiaries to the trust and the Committee's role is to administer the property (hire a management company for the lodges, set the budget for expenditure, collect maintenance fees and pay the debts of the Club and associated trust). The constitution also provides for what should happen in the event of any liquidation of the assets of the trust (which provides to distribution of any proceeds to Holiday Certificate owners).

So who owns the deed and buildings to the property if not this Scotland investment company? The Holiday Certs are RTUs with no land or building ownership rights i.e. a perpetual lease.

 

[ocdb8r]

So who owns the deed and buildings to the property if not this Scotland investment company? The Holiday Certs are RTUs with no land or building ownership rights i.e. a perpetual lease.

As I have posted before - this is not correct. There is no "lease". The land is held in Trust fbo the Owners Club (which is composed of its members).

The Holiday Certificates do have "ownership rights" depending on what this means to you. The certificate itself only guarantees use of a specific unit in a specific week in perpetuity as well as membership in the Owners Club. As a member in the owners club you have ownership type rights and obligations, including the right to elect members of the Owners' Committee, obligations to fund the financial needs of the Committee (which includes management and maintenance of the property and buildings) and finally a right to share in any proceeds should the property be sold (such proceeds to be divided according to the relative initial purchase price of each Holiday Certificate).