You should probably be suing your HOA

[tschwa2]

My concern is that the want the ownerships back for free so they can resell them.

Most resorts really don't want ownerships back or at least not in the avalance levels that they are dealing with currently. Most places have more than enough inventory. They have enough inventory when they make the owners pay $1000+ to give it back each contract. They charge the fees because they probably have 2+ owners looking to get out for everyone they sell. HICV started off taking them for free but now charge $1200 per contract. Diamond (now HIlton Vacaction Club not HIlton grand vacation club) charges $1000+ per contract and once they hit so may per year, stop accepting until the following year. You are under no obligation to give your week back or to pay them to take it back but with resale values at $0 or less than $0 for so many systems, it is often cheaper to pay $1000 then it is to try to sell or give it away in the open market.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I have been very critical of Wyndham’s IT department for years. However, as far as I know, there are no rules or laws against incompetence. If you think a court is going to issue an order against a business for having a bad website, I have some beachfront property just outside of Des Moines, IA that you might want to make an offer on.

Also, if there are owners out there that haven’t been able to login for years, that’s on them. Usually, it pays to be persistent, not whiny.

Well waterfront property along the Racoon River is far superior than any beach front location that I have been to....

 

[geist1223]

Worldmark has no Employees. It consists of the Resorts, Members, and a BOD.

 

[vacation911]

Most resorts really don't want ownerships back or at least not in the avalance levels that they are dealing with currently. Most places have more than enough inventory. They have enough inventory when they make the owners pay $1000+ to give it back each contract. They charge the fees because they probably have 2+ owners looking to get out for everyone they sell. HICV started off taking them for free but now charge $1200 per contract. Diamond (now HIlton Vacaction Club not HIlton grand vacation club) charges $1000+ per contract and once they hit so may per year, stop accepting until the following year. You are under no obligation to give your week back or to pay them to take it back but with resale values at $0 or less than $0 for so many systems, it is often cheaper to pay $1000 then it is to try to sell or give it away in the open market.

I think Worldmark might have a program similar to Wyndham Vacation Resorts, where you can simply return the timeshare and continue paying the monthly maintenance fees during the transfer process. That’s a lot better than programs that charge fees for the process!

From what I’ve seen, most Wyndham timeshares have zero resale value, and while Worldmark is affiliated with Wyndham, it might be different. The original poster mentioned that Worldmark is willing to take the timeshare back for free, and it seems they only require maintaining the fees during the transfer.

OP.....I know it can be a tough decision to accept, but when you compare it to other buyback programs in the industry, this seems like a better option. Alternatively, you could try giving it away for free on TUG or see if Worldmark points have more market value to potentially sell it. You don’t have to accept their deal right away—exploring your options is always a good idea. At least this way, you know it won’t just end up being resold as a developer timeshare.

One question I’ve been wondering about: since Worldmark is a club, do they even need to take back timeshares to resell them?

 

[VacationForever]

One question I’ve been wondering about: since Worldmark is a club, do they even need to take back timeshares to resell them?

Yes the do need to take back the contract. Every credit sold is tied back to resort/time, much like trust points in MVC system. It is not a "travel club". It works like trust points. Wyndham cannot sell more credits than what the resorts/timeshare translate into.

 

[vacation911]

Yes the do need to take back the contract. Every credit sold is tied back to resort/time, much like trust points in MVC system. It is not a "travel club". It works like trust points. Wyndham cannot sell more credits than what the resorts/timeshare translate into.

That settles that and makes sense why they would offer to take them back. Thanks for the clarification

 

[CO skier]

The only people that would benefit from a lawsuit would probably be the lawyers involved.

That is exactly what happened in the one class action lawsuit brought by some WorldMark members in 2008. WorldMark members got screwed out of 400-some units that they wish they could be reserving today, and the attorneys received a multi-million dollar payday. Let us not do that again.

 

[CO skier]

Worldmark is supposed to have an independent Board of Directors. I don't know how many of the positions are controlled by Wyndham.

"5.2 Number & Composition. The Board shall consist of a total of five (5) Directors. One (1) of the five (5) Directors shall be elected solely by the votes of the Memberships other than the Declarant. Additionally, one (1) of the five (5) Directors shall be elected solely by the Declarant."

One Board Director is selected by the Developer every other year.

The other four Directors currently have no affiliation with Wyndham.

There is a small, paranoid group of Wyndham/WorldMark conspiracy theorists who promote a fake news agenda that deny these and other facts.

 

[CO skier]

My concern is that the want the ownerships back for free so they can resell them.

Wyndham must pay the maintenance fees on the reclaimed ownerships. Anyone with any common sense can understand why Wyndham would rather have owners paying the maintenance fees.

Wyndham offers an easy, no-cost exit for WorldMark owners who no longer want their membership. Owners in independent timeshares can only dream of such an easy conclusion to their timeshare ownership.

No WorldMark member is being forced to relinquish their ownership.

 

[CO skier]

Didn't the board recently just vote to extend check out time to 11am? Seems like a rather owner friendly change and not something Wyndham would like all that much.

There was also the introduction of Guest Certificates in 2018 that resulted in 30,000 more owner arrivals within the first year - very owner friendly.

While not as extensive as the owner priority periods in Club Wyndham, WorldMark has owner priority periods restricting cash reservations.

The WorldMark Board of Directors also negotiated a $19 million diversion of some 2020 and 2021 management fees to the Club's Reserve Account for future renovations.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Yes all WM properties now have 11am check out time starting on Jan 1 2025.

As you can tell, communications to owners is not their strength.

What about co-branded Worldmark/Wyndham properties like Club Wyndham Anaheim?

 

[VacationForever]

What about co-branded Worldmark/Wyndham properties like Club Wyndham Anaheim?

See the verbiage which I posted above, it is 11am for all Worldmark properties. If Wyndham property booked through Club pass, then it does not apply. I don't know anything about co-branding of properties and how you book them etc.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Thank you for explaining that! I appreciate the insight.

Does anyone know if it’s the same on the other side for Wyndham Vacation Resorts owners (not WorldMark), particularly for Club Access? I’m curious because Club Access isn’t deeded to one owner but is more of a points-based contract tied to a collection of resorts.

I’m not looking to take any legal action or anything like that, but I’ve noticed that maintenance fees have almost doubled since I joined. When I became a member, it was around $5.50 per thousand points, and now I believe it’s over $9 per thousand.

I’ve often wondered how these fees are calculated. Does Club Access have its own HOA or POA, or is the cost determined by some sort of formula that factors in all the resorts in the collection? This is more out of curiosity than anything else, but I’d love to hear if anyone has more knowledge about how it works!

Thanks in advance for any insights!

CWA is a trust - similar though not the same structure as Worldmark. The CWA trust holds deeds from various Wyndham resorts, that's why CWA doesn't have a single resort for ARP bookings like a CWS deeded ownership does. Owners of CWA have ARP at any/all resorts via deeds at all resorts held by the trust itself (and only to the deeds held by the trust within the ARP window). Below are the CWA MFs since 2012 - which are documented in our MF sheet that TUG maintains here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mRNaOwfYAl-E5b5GbVSTUwDrqcPelxYxPsNSYmvbX80/edit?gid=0#gid=0

The CWA MFs are nothing more than the sum total MFs for all deeds held by the trust on an annualized basis. MFs will typically increase 1.5-3 percentage points over inflation rates. The average headline inflation rate here in the US over the past ten years has been 2.7% (and there are many arguments that the published rates are artificially low for various reasons). So if we take this average - that means, on average, MF rates will have increased 4.2-5.7% annually. If we take the average within that range, it would double MFs every 14 years. That's roughly what we are seeing from the data above - if not actually a bit lower since the doubling threshold would require MFs to increase to $9.78 next year to meet the 14 year time period from 2012-2026. The rate of increase from 2024 to 2025 was 6.03%. If we assume a similar rate of increase next year, that would put the MF rate at 8.64/1000 - pretty far below the doubling threshold of 9.78/1000.

Yes, there is a HOA for CWA - from the website:

 

[HitchHiker71]

My concern is that the want the ownerships back for free so they can resell them.

So you are against deedback programs like Wyndham Certified Exit for example? You'd rather owners have no ability to return unwanted timeshare ownerships back to the developer for no cost? I'm not seeing your logic here to be honest. I'd rather have a deedback option from the developer, than have to either resell in the secondary market for little to nothing, or stop paying and risk damage to credit. That's my logic.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think Worldmark might have a program similar to Wyndham Vacation Resorts, where you can simply return the timeshare and continue paying the monthly maintenance fees during the transfer process. That’s a lot better than programs that charge fees for the process!

From what I’ve seen, most Wyndham timeshares have zero resale value, and while Worldmark is affiliated with Wyndham, it might be different. The original poster mentioned that Worldmark is willing to take the timeshare back for free, and it seems they only require maintaining the fees during the transfer.

OP.....I know it can be a tough decision to accept, but when you compare it to other buyback programs in the industry, this seems like a better option. Alternatively, you could try giving it away for free on TUG or see if Worldmark points have more market value to potentially sell it. You don’t have to accept their deal right away—exploring your options is always a good idea. At least this way, you know it won’t just end up being resold as a developer timeshare.

One question I’ve been wondering about: since Worldmark is a club, do they even need to take back timeshares to resell them?

It's the same Certified Exit program - simply for Worldmark in this case: https://worldmark.wyndhamdestinations.com//us/en/help/wyndham-cares/certified-exit

 

[dioxide45]

So you are against deedback programs like Wyndham Certified Exit for example? You'd rather owners have no ability to return unwanted timeshare ownerships back to the developer for no cost? I'm not seeing your logic here to be honest. I'd rather have a deedback option from the developer, than have to either resell in the secondary market for little to nothing, or stop paying and risk damage to credit. That's my logic.

It seems that some people are hung up on what happens to the timeshare after they get rid of it. Out of principle, I generally would try to give a week away to someone on TUG before giving it back to a developer. I would rather someone get the timeshare than the developer using it to catch another victim. That said, if no other options exist, then I would deed it back. Worldmark also has some resale value and could also be easily given away to someone else if necessary. No need to worry about what the developer might do because they wouldn't be getting it.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It seems that some people are hung up on what happens to the timeshare after they get rid of it. Out of principle, I generally would try to give a week away to someone on TUG before giving it back to a developer. I would rather someone get the timeshare than the developer using it to catch another victim. That said, if no other options exist, then I would deed it back. Worldmark also has some resale value and could also be easily given away to someone else if necessary. No need to worry about what the developer might do because they wouldn't be getting it.

Again, the logic doesn't make sense to me. Let's use that same logic for other goods and services. Does anyone get hung up on what happens to their vehicle or home after they sell it or give it away? Or for any other good or service for that matter? Once you choose to relinguish ownership of any good or service, you don't really have any right or ability to determine what transpires after the fact. Any lawsuit on this type of thing will fall flat on it's face and won't even get off the ground as there is no legal standing nor precedent, correct?

As you said, if you don't want the developer to resell the points returned via a free deedback program to another unsuspecting timeshare buyer, then resell it or give it away for free via secondary markets. Just be aware that many of the larger timeshare entities, such as Wyndham, utilize third party LLCs to buy up their own timeshare inventory for sale on the secondary markets, and most folks are unaware that despite using a third party to resell their timeshare, that the developer may ultimately end up obtaining that inventory despite their efforts to avoid this type of outcome.

 

[rickandcindy23]

So you are against deedback programs like Wyndham Certified Exit for example? You'd rather owners have no ability to return unwanted timeshare ownerships back to the developer for no cost? I'm not seeing your logic here to be honest. I'd rather have a deedback option from the developer, than have to either resell in the secondary market for little to nothing, or stop paying and risk damage to credit. That's my logic.

I think if one person can deedback, everyone should be able to deedback. This is not really how it works. Wyndham picks and chooses who can deedback and who cannot. How is this fair?

What about people who are renting still and have not received the letter, then others who have rented in the past have their accounts crutinized to the nth degree.

Wyndham should have policies and stick with them, and not budge, but this big company picks and chooses who can do this and who can do that.

I am glad they finally added our kids to the membership, but it has been two years of frustration.

Still, our kids probably do not want Wyndham for their entire lifetimes, so we will be dumping a bunch of contracts that are developer. Most of the Wyndhams we visit are just okay. Branson Meadows, for example. It's nice enough, but stay at Marriott's Willow Ridge lodge just once, and you see that Branson Meadows is not all that great, but for us, it's cheap to stay there, so we do stay for 3 nights and use our discounts.

Last month we stayed for 3 nights at Branson Meadows and requested an upgrade from the suite. We didn't get an upgrade. It was okay, cute little stove and dishwasher. Had a tiny living area, and we had to put our food on the furniture. There was a king bed. That was great. Wyndham has great beds. I always sleep well. I should have been watching for an upgrade myself. I forgot I just booked a suite. We were traveling in our car, and we had a lot of stuff that we had to bring in. Our car was packed.

 

[sue1947]

I have been very critical of Wyndham’s IT department for years. However, as far as I know, there are no rules or laws against incompetence. If you think a court is going to issue an order against a business for having a bad website, I have some beachfront property just outside of Des Moines, IA that you might want to make an offer on.

Also, if there are owners out there that haven’t been able to login for years, that’s on them. Usually, it pays to be persistent, not whiny.

It's not 'having a bad website' but (from my post above that you responded to)

Many owners have been unable to access their accounts for way too long

 

[sue1947]

Are you talking about Worldmark here? If so I'm shocked that I missed that! Do you have a link?

WM check out time