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You should probably be suing your HOA

JudyS

JudyS

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I'm very short of breath, so I can't say much. But unless you have an independent HOA, you should probably be suing. In fact, we should all get together and sue. HOAs have fiduciary responsibilities, and I'm sure Marriott and Wyndham aren't living up to theirs. I'll give more details if and when I can. I think there's an old thread on the Vistana board about the problems I've had.
 
JudyS said:
I'm very short of breath, so I can't say much. But unless you have an independent HOA, you should probably be suing. In fact, we should all get together and sue. HOAs have fiduciary responsibilities, and I'm sure Marriott and Wyndham aren't living up to theirs. I'll give more details if and when I can. I think there's an old thread on the Vistana board about the problems I've had.
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With Wyndham, which associations are you talking about? Any examples?? I know many have independence. Are there particular ones you are saying are not living up to their responsibilities? Club access has gotten bad with maintenance, but it' RTU so I doubt much could be done there unfortunately. Just curious if you have any specific examples of which HOA's?
 
HOA is a volunteer board. Owners' maintenance fees pay for the insurance and HOA BOD insurance. If you sue your HOA, you are going to see an increase in your MF because insurance costs will go up to cover defense costs.
 
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vacation911 said:
With Wyndham, which associations are you talking about? Any examples?? I know many have independence. Are there particular ones you are saying are not living up to their responsibilities? Club access has gotten bad with maintenance, but it' RTU so I doubt much could be done there unfortunately. Just curious if you have any specific examples of which HOA's?
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Worldmark.
 
VacationForever said:
HOA is a volunteer board. Owners' maintenance fees pay for the insurance and HOA BOD insurance. If you sue your HOA, you are going to see an increase in your MF because insurance costs will go up to cover defence costs.
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Better than having the Board working in their own advantage.
 
HOAs are the owners. Are you saying we should sue the board members for breach of fiduciary responsibility? Many people take "fiduciary responsibility" to mean something it really doesn't. Spending an extra $10,000 on some nicer carpeting isn't a breach. Not obtaining proper insurance on a complex might be a breach.
 
I don't see Worldmark HOA BOD doing anything that they should not. HOWEVER, if you want to sue Wyndham instead of the HOA, it's a different proposal which many may be more inclined to entertain.
 
rickandcindy23 said:
WorldMark is a Club.
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Thank you. I tought in that case the club does as it chooses, since it is in charge, and owns the club. The owners are really members of the club.... or so i thought... Does the club still have a HOA or POA? I figured all decisions were just made by the club? Maybe a board of trustees?
 
vacation911 said:
Thank you. I tought in that case the club does as it chooses, since it is in charge, and owns the club. The owners are really members of the club.... or so i thought... Does the club still have a HOA or POA? I figured all decisions were just made by the club? Maybe a board of trustees?
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We have a HOA, just like other timeshare system. Decisions are made by the HOA and we do vote for the HOA members during annual elections. While it is a club, it is not any different from point systems where the points are held in a trust. We buy points contracts.

There is really no HOA to sue without directing hurting owners' pockets. All grievances are really against Wyndham. If there is ever a lawsuit, it will be against Wyndham and not the HOA.
 
VacationForever said:
We have a HOA, just like other timeshare system. Decisions are made by the HOA and we do vote for the HOA members during annual elections. While it is a club, it is not any different from point systems where the points are held in a trust. We buy points contracts.

There is really no HOA to sue without directing hurting owners' pockets. All grievances are really against Wyndham. If there is ever a lawsuit, it will be against Wyndham and not the HOA.
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Thank you for explaining that! 😊 I appreciate the insight.

Does anyone know if it’s the same on the other side for Wyndham Vacation Resorts owners (not WorldMark), particularly for Club Access? I’m curious because Club Access isn’t deeded to one owner but is more of a points-based contract tied to a collection of resorts.

I’m not looking to take any legal action or anything like that, but I’ve noticed that maintenance fees have almost doubled since I joined. When I became a member, it was around $5.50 per thousand points, and now I believe it’s over $9 per thousand.

I’ve often wondered how these fees are calculated. Does Club Access have its own HOA or POA, or is the cost determined by some sort of formula that factors in all the resorts in the collection? This is more out of curiosity than anything else, but I’d love to hear if anyone has more knowledge about how it works!

Thanks in advance for any insights! 🙏
 
vacation911 said:
Thank you. I tought in that case the club does as it chooses, since it is in charge, and owns the club. The owners are really members of the club.... or so i thought... Does the club still have a HOA or POA? I figured all decisions were just made by the club? Maybe a board of trustees?
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Worldmark is supposed to have an independent Board of Directors. I don't know how many of the positions are controlled by Wyndham.
 
I think most HOA's have insurance that covers board members from personally getting sued or pays if they do. Ultimately though, I think they have processes in place that would pass any payoff requirements back to the owners, which makes it all sound pretty hopeless. It would have to be gross gross negligence because one could argue that keeping the developer happy is in the best interest of the owners because most owners don't want to end up paying slightly less but losing the developer association and everything that is associated with they system.
 
tschwa2 said:
I think most HOA's have insurance that covers board members from personally getting sued or pays if they do. Ultimately though, I think they have processes in place that would pass any payoff requirements back to the owners, which makes it all sound pretty hopeless. It would have to be gross gross negligence because one could argue that keeping the developer happy is in the best interest of the owners because most owners don't want to end up paying slightly less but losing the developer association and everything that is associated with they system.
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My concern is that the want the ownerships back for free so they can resell them.
 
dioxide45 said:
Worldmark is supposed to have an independent Board of Directors. I don't know how many of the positions are controlled by Wyndham.
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All of them. They have votes based on the number of credits they control. Pre-Wyndham, those were voted based on the percentage of votes earned by 'regular' votes. Wyndham votes in blocks to 'select' their choices; either their employees or those they believe they can control. The Board votes in lock step and has never overturned anything Wyndham wants.

WM is owned by its members, but with the control of the BOD by Wyndham, that distinction is basically moot. Wyndham is the hired manager and developer and the BOD can fire them. However, with Wyndham's control of the BOD, that won't happen.
This isn't a matter of spending too much on carpets. The incompetence demonstrated by all upper management at Wyndham over their failure/inability to manage the IT department and hold them accountable to actually deliver a website that works (how many years later?) leads me to believe that all of them, from the CEO on down, should be fired for incompetence. Many owners have been unable to access their accounts for way too long along with a multitude of other functions that don't work because Wyndham isn't willing to pay for competent IT. Those owners are the ones with a good basis for a lawsuit, but the finances make it a very uphill battle. They fired all the long time folks in Owner Services and replaced them with people who don't have a clue so getting things fixed is an uphill battle. Add a ticket and wait to see if anything is ever done. So more are for sale as owners head for the hills and the resale value drops...

(cue the Wyndham apologists...)
 
JudyS said:
My concern is that the want the ownerships back for free so they can resell them.
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What they want isn't always what they get. (cue The Rolling Stones). Yes, you can give it back to them under some circumstances, but you can also sell it yourself. See memberships for sale. to see what accounts are selling for or for a list of trusted resellers.
 
JudyS said:
I don't think the owners are in control.
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Didn't the board recently just vote to extend check out time to 11am? Seems like a rather owner friendly change and not something Wyndham would like all that much.
 
JudyS said:
My concern is that the want the ownerships back for free so they can resell them.
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Just to clarify, the only memberships they take back for free are from owners who agree to those terms. To be fair, once an owner decides to give up their timeshare, the company can choose what to do with it—it’s theirs at that point. Honestly, I don’t see much reason to sue over this. They have the right to offer to take it back for free, and you have the right to say no.

It’s kind of like any offer to buy your property: if you agree to the terms, that’s your choice. If you don’t, then maybe, over time, they’ll improve their offers if enough people hold out. For comparison, some companies like Westgate, Capital, and Horizons HI charge thousands just to take the property back. In the timeshare world, getting a free take-back on a paid-off property actually seems like a decent deal in the grand scheme of things.

Just something to consider!
 
sue1947 said:
The incompetence demonstrated by all upper management at Wyndham over their failure/inability to manage the IT department and hold them accountable to actually deliver a website that works (how many years later?) leads me to believe that all of them, from the CEO on down, should be fired for incompetence.
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I have been very critical of Wyndham’s IT department for years. However, as far as I know, there are no rules or laws against incompetence. If you think a court is going to issue an order against a business for having a bad website, I have some beachfront property just outside of Des Moines, IA that you might want to make an offer on.

Also, if there are owners out there that haven’t been able to login for years, that’s on them. Usually, it pays to be persistent, not whiny.
 
dioxide45 said:
Didn't the board recently just vote to extend check out time to 11am? Seems like a rather owner friendly change and not something Wyndham would like all that much.
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Are you talking about Worldmark here? If so I'm shocked that I missed that! Do you have a link?
 

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