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Wyndham

cheshirecat

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I am considering buying into Wyndham having attended a presentation at Bonnet Creek (or should I say despite attending it!) On the face of things it seems a good proposition and was going to go for an alternate year package of 164000 points. I have seen that I can buy more or less the same package on a resale for next to nothing but would be grateful for any advise from you guys (bear in mind please I am a complete novice)

Is Wyndham something that is worth buying into in principle? If so what would be a sensible points total to buy into?
Is there any downside to buying on a resale rather than from Wyndham?
Is there difficulties in booking the weeks you want?
How does the RCI system work, I understand it is an exchange system but what is the cost/advantage ov er booking through Wyndham?

Thanks in advance
 

scottmindib

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You NEVER buy retail for a TS. The big difference between retail and resale with Wyndham is that you cannot attain VIP status with resale points and therefore you don't get any of the perks with that status. Since you can't get VIP status that means you only get one guest certificate per year and you are limited to housekeeping points worth only 1 per 1K of the points you own. Reservations and everything else are all the same. It is never worth paying $30000 for a 154K point package at the retail level when, for example, I just got one for $500 and $50 per month dues. Hope that helps

Scott
 

cheshirecat

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thanks, what are the advantages of VIP status? Also what are houskeeping points and guest certificates?
 

timeos2

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If you consider Wyndham - a great system - buy only resale

thanks, what are the advantages of VIP status? Also what are houskeeping points and guest certificates?
There are some minor discounts in points (but only if available), some upgrades and a few other credits for VIP. Nothing worth tens of thosands of dollars more as it would take you four lifetimes to reach break even assuming the perks didn't change (and they have been changed and it's likely they will continue to be devalued). Never buy Wyndham retail.

Housekeeping credits are one of the costs in a points based use. If you mostly use full weeks you are unlikely to need more - if you use a lot of 3 -4 days you would need more but they are cheap (compared to retail prices to maybe avoid some of them). In 13+ years we have never had to purchase more HK credits. Not a factor in deciding if retail or resale points make more sense. It is ALWAYS resale for 98.6% of potential buyers. The 1.4% already are VIP or own only retail points and, somehow, manage to convince themselves they can "save" with a retail purchase. Wishful thinking but if they did it then they may prefer to do it again.
 

cheshirecat

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There are some minor discounts in points (but only if available), some upgrades and a few other credits for VIP. Nothing worth tens of thosands of dollars more as it would take you four lifetimes to reach break even assuming the perks didn't change (and they have been changed and it's likely they will continue to be devalued). Never buy Wyndham retail.

Housekeeping credits are one of the costs in a points based use. If you mostly use full weeks you are unlikely to need more - if you use a lot of 3 -4 days you would need more but they are cheap (compared to retail prices to maybe avoid some of them). In 13+ years we have never had to purchase more HK credits. Not a factor in deciding if retail or resale points make more sense. It is ALWAYS resale for 98.6% of potential buyers. The 1.4% already are VIP or own only retail points and, somehow, manage to convince themselves they can "save" with a retail purchase. Wishful thinking but if they did it then they may prefer to do it again.
Thanks, how easy is it to book the resort you want?
 

GeNioS

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Since you can't get VIP status that means you only get one guest certificate per year......
Is this regardless of how many points I buy resale?

(beeeeep, beeeeeep, beeeeeep...backing up)

If I buy a Wyndham resale, how many guest certificates can I get a year, and does it matter how many points I own or how many resorts I have points at?

Thanks! (again)
 

mshatty

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Is this regardless of how many points I buy resale?

(beeeeep, beeeeeep, beeeeeep...backing up)

If I buy a Wyndham resale, how many guest certificates can I get a year, and does it matter how many points I own or how many resorts I have points at?

Thanks! (again)

A resale owner, no matter how many points he/she owns, now gets 1 guest certificate a year free, up from none.
 

GeNioS

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A resale owner, no matter how many points he/she owns, now gets 1 guest certificate a year free, up from none.
Oh...free...ok....I can still pay a fee for others if I want to?.....ok...cool....wow...I actually get a free one? I don't think using interval I've ever seen the word free.
 

timeos2

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Another red herring - Why sweat guest certificates?

Is this regardless of how many points I buy resale?

(beeeeep, beeeeeep, beeeeeep...backing up)

If I buy a Wyndham resale, how many guest certificates can I get a year, and does it matter how many points I own or how many resorts I have points at?

Thanks! (again)
You can get all you want - why would you need many? But after the first one (unless you are VIP and no matter how many contracts you purchase) they will cost you $129 ea I believe is the new price. Again - 13+ years in FSP and we have NEVER used a guest certificate. Unlikely we ever will. These are our points, we use them or we rent them to other FSP owners. No GC required. End of story and much ado about nothing unless you plan to be a super renter. That was never the intent of the FSP system and whatever they can do to reduce that misuse of the system is a plus in my view.
 

BocaBum99

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At this point in time, I think the only Wyndham points package that anyone should buy is a very small one on eBay for $1 plus closing. If you buy anything more than that, you are overpaying because Wyndhams are now worthless.

The only reason why I would by a small package of any size is that the market is flooded with rental points now for less than maintenance fees. Just rent what you need.

Literally, Wyndhams are now worthless ownerships. There are only 2 ways to fix this. First, Wyndham needs to dramatically reduce it's cost structure and the maintenance fees and taxes for ALL Wyndham resorts. Then, they need to create a more viable rental market so that owning is more attractive than renting. Artificial trade barriers like the $99/129 fee actually hurt the resale market. Costs need to be reduced, not increased. Second, they need to start exercising or implementing ROFR to prop up prices.

It's very easy to rent points for less than maintenance fees. Or, even paying the $99/129 fee, it's cheaper to rent than to own most resorts. If you don't know how to do that, see me for details.
 

GeNioS

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You can get all you want - why would you need many? But after the first one (unless you are VIP and no matter how many contracts you purchase) they will cost you $129 ea I believe is the new price. Again - 13+ years in FSP and we have NEVER used a guest certificate. Unlikely we ever will. These are our points, we use them or we rent them to other FSP owners. No GC required. End of story and much ado about nothing unless you plan to be a super renter. That was never the intent of the FSP system and whatever they can do to reduce that misuse of the system is a plus in my view.
I have never rented a timeshare and don't intend to...for me, the question of guest certificates are about my brother and his family and my parents...
 

bnoble

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Right now, I would look to a system other than Wyndham if you plan on hosting other family members on a regular basis. BlueGreen might be a nice alternative. The GC fee structure makes this usage pattern very unattractive compared to alternatives.

It's very easy to rent points for less than maintenance fees.
There are still a few deeds out there with lower cost bases. They are mostly converted fixed weeks from prime seasons in larger units.
 

timeos2

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The fees can easily be avoided. Why obsess over them? It's a few dollars at worst

I have never rented a timeshare and don't intend to...for me, the question of guest certificates are about my brother and his family and my parents...
My sister and parents have used our weeks - same last name no problem & no GC. Never even been asked for one. I have to laugh over all this interest in fees that simply don't apply for most vacation users. They would apply if you are buying to rent the time to others - not the points to other FSP owners - but why buy to do that? There are plenty of people trying to rent already and its not just Wyndham.

Pick your brand from the top like DVC, Marriott and others to the bottom dwellers like Festiva or Wastegate or any in between. You can easily rent for far less than owning but you take your chances doing that. I prefer to own, know my costs and what I can get - and vacation! No worries about who I'm renting from, how it will be paid, did they have the right to rent, etc. Does it cost me? Maybe - maybe not. We tend to travel on the peak times - rentals tend to be higher then not the deep discounts you see in non-holiday/school in session periods. So from what I've seen we save by owning rather than renting for the times we tend to utilize. YMMV.

Be sure you know what you want, what you're buying and get the deal that works for you. If that's renting great - if its to buy you can do far worse than resale Wyndham FSP points. In fact in my view it would be tough to find a better value for one of the great multi-resort systems available.
 

scottmindib

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I just bought 154 K points for $500 and my yearly MF's are $4.18 per 1K points. That is considerably lower in cost that renting the points for $5-6 per 1K. For example, I rented a unit thsi fall for 3 nights in a 2 bedroom and the cost was $5/K for 54K points for the 3 nights = $270 - that same stay for me coparitively would be $225 . And that is because I was able to bargain with an owner to rent points for $5/K. In the spring I am staying for 72K points and if you get $5 / K rental it is $360 - if I book it now with my new ownership it makes it $300 for the stay. As you can see I was able to rent cheap but not many owners are willing to rent for $5 / K and wyndham just raised its rental fees for owners. That is going to push more people to buy more points or go to the rental market to rent points. This will push rental prices higher and keep points packages steady. If you can get a points package cheap with real low dues then it makes sense to buy over renting and having to find an owner willing to rent at $5 / K. Do the math and see how much you will save if you can rent at $5 / K or $5.50 / K or $6 / K as opposed to your MF's averaged per night. For me I can stay weekdays during all of my stays and I can get 9 weeknights per year for my MF's of $630. That makes it approx $71 per night for us to stay using points as opposed to renting which was about $90-110 per night on average. You just need to do the math and if you can stay weekdays and non-prime season at resorts it definitely behooves you to buy points for yourself.
 

mshatty

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At this point in time, I think the only Wyndham points package that anyone should buy is a very small one on eBay for $1 plus closing. If you buy anything more than that, you are overpaying because Wyndhams are now worthless.

The only reason why I would by a small package of any size is that the market is flooded with rental points now for less than maintenance fees. Just rent what you need.

Literally, Wyndhams are now worthless ownerships. There are only 2 ways to fix this. First, Wyndham needs to dramatically reduce it's cost structure and the maintenance fees and taxes for ALL Wyndham resorts. Then, they need to create a more viable rental market so that owning is more attractive than renting. Artificial trade barriers like the $99/129 fee actually hurt the resale market. Costs need to be reduced, not increased. Second, they need to start exercising or implementing ROFR to prop up prices.

It's very easy to rent points for less than maintenance fees. Or, even paying the $99/129 fee, it's cheaper to rent than to own most resorts. If you don't know how to do that, see me for details.
That is one way to look at Wyndham.

Another point of view is that purchasing Wyndham Fairshare Plus points resale is probably the most cost efficient way for a person to buy into timesharing. With very little initial upfront cost, it is a great point system to learn to use. It's not perfect but it has features that are simple to use and other sophisticated uses that are the calculus of cheap timesharing.

Boca's suggestion of buying a small point package and renting unlimited points from other owners is one way to own Wyndham. That approach allows any owner to reserve any available Wyndham resort at 10 months before check-in.
 

bnoble

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They would apply if you are buying to rent the time to others - not the points to other FSP owners - but why buy to do that?
With all due respect, they also apply if you are hosting, say, a family reunion. In Wyndham's current rules, if you book N units for the same week, you need N-1 guest certificates.

It may not matter to you, but given GeNioS's stated objectives it would matter to him/her.
 

Jya-Ning

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My sister and parents have used our weeks - same last name no problem & no GC. Never even been asked for one.
For 2 years, they have rent point from Wyndham can not exceed your total points. They never really executed it. Than they start force the rule in 2006

I would not depend on that, especially if I send my family member to few days before I arrive or I don't plan to arrive.

And if I need two units at the same time, I will need GC on one of it, no matter what.

Jya-Ning
 

GeNioS

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With all due respect, they also apply if you are hosting, say, a family reunion. In Wyndham's current rules, if you book N units for the same week, you need N-1 guest certificates.

It may not matter to you, but given GeNioS's stated objectives it would matter to him/her.
Especially when I've been used to paying $39 through II and now they're going to be $129 if I end up getting a Wyndham. I don't think it's a deal-killer, but I'm happy to find out about it before buying so it doesn't irk me later.
 

GeNioS

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At this point in time, I think the only Wyndham points package that anyone should buy is a very small one on eBay for $1 plus closing. If you buy anything more than that, you are overpaying because Wyndhams are now worthless.
I was going to pull the trigger on a Wyndham today, then this quote stuck with me and I had another quick question...if I can pick one up for nearly nothing, what happens if I decide in 3 or 4 years that I don't want it anymore? Do I have to find a buyer for it....will there be savvy people who will want the points, even for free? Will Wyndham accept the timeshare back?

This may seem paranoid, but I guess I'm just wondering that although there is no risk in the purchase price, if I'm unsatisfied with Wyndham, can I get away from the maintenance fee quick and painless if I don't care about resale amount?
 

timeos2

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When you buy low you have little exposure

I was going to pull the trigger on a Wyndham today, then this quote stuck with me and I had another quick question...if I can pick one up for nearly nothing, what happens if I decide in 3 or 4 years that I don't want it anymore? Do I have to find a buyer for it....will there be savvy people who will want the points, even for free? Will Wyndham accept the timeshare back?

This may seem paranoid, but I guess I'm just wondering that although there is no risk in the purchase price, if I'm unsatisfied with Wyndham, can I get away from the maintenance fee quick and painless if I don't care about resale amount?
The beauty of buying cheap is you lose nothing if you have to sell cheap. Compare that to even the few timeshares that tend to sell at higher prices. DVC - 10-20% loss minimum (higher as the years shrink) of $20,000 - $2000-$4000 lost. Wyndham @ $.01/point - 154,000 points - 50% loss - $770. Your risk is virtually zero. And if Wyndham ever came to their senses and started supporting rather than hurting resale values you might (a very big might) make a few dollars. It is almost risk free as far as resale value goes.
 

kkan

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This may seem paranoid, but I guess I'm just wondering that although there is no risk in the purchase price, if I'm unsatisfied with Wyndham, can I get away from the maintenance fee quick and painless if I don't care about resale amount?
I suppose you could pay someone to take it.
 

GeNioS

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I suppose you could pay someone to take it.
Wow....that's funny....when you think that people are paying thousands to have people "help them out...." You can pay a lot of maintenance fees with those thousands while you wait for someone to come along who wants it....

As you said Timeos2....no risk. Game on.
 
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