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Wyndham sales practices - lessons learned and warning to others

Karma1958

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I am a 15-year Wyndham owner and am very happy with the hospitability side of the company – the resorts are very nice and the resort personnel are professional, helpful, and friendly. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the sales side of the company. I want to identify recent two problems I had with Wyndham sales so that others can avoid the same problems.

This warning applies specifically to current owners adding points to their ownership. As part of the discussion at Bonnet Creek to purchase additional points we were given an ‘owner worksheet’. The “Total Points” section of that worksheet identified “Today’s Price / 1000 Pts”. My assumption was that the price identified in this section of the document (and sated repeatedly by the salesperson) identified the price we would pay that day per 1,000 points – in my case that would have been $169.00 per 1,000 points. It wasn’t. What that section of the worksheet actually shows is the simple average of our equity divided by the number of points we own – the sales person referred to this as the “blended” rate. Since we have bought points in increments over the past 15 years, the “blended” rate shown as “Today’s Price” is significantly less than the current actual price per 1,000 points. If you are an owner considering adding additional points to your ownership and are presented with an “owner worksheet” identifying “Today’s Price” information, or if the salesperson verbally identifies that information, before you sign the contract pull out your calculator and verify what your actual price per 1,000 points is. It’s easy: take the Net Purchase price minus the processing fee divided by the number of points you are purchasing. In my case, that was $29,749.00 minus $349.00 divided by 145,000 points. The actual price per 1,000 points we paid was $202.75, not the $169.00 identified verbally by the salesperson and in writing on the “owner worksheet”. The difference between what we paid for the 145,000 points and what we assumed we were paying based on the “Today’s Price” of $169.00 was $4,849.00. So it is worth your time and effort to pull out the calculator and verify exactly how much you are paying per 1,000 points before you agree to the sale. And don’t let the salesperson convince you there is no reason to verify the price per 1,000 points. There is.

This second warning applies to anyone purchasing at Wyndham. When purchasing the 145,000 points discussed above the salesperson at Bonnet Creek verbally assured us that if we purchased additional points within 1 year using our equity that the “price per point will remain the same”. The salesperson stated this repeatedly throughout the sales pitch. More importantly the salesperson, in response to follow-up emailed question from me, reiterated that assurance in an email. We did purchase additional points within the 1-year timeframe using our equity, but of course the “price per point” did not “remain the same”. So the lesson learned here is that Wyndham did not stand behind or honor promises made verbally and in writing from their sales personnel.

I tried to resolve both of these issues first with the resort personnel involved, from whom I received no substantive response for one month. Next I submitted both issues with all supporting documentation to the Owner Care department. Owner Care did not addressed the first issue re failure to use the “Today’s Price” issue on the owner worksheet. Owner Care did addressed the second issue (salesperson written assurance regarding price) saying that “the promotional price is not the price that is guaranteed”, even though that is exactly what the Bonnet Creek salesperson said and put in writing. Really?

I have also sent both issues to Wyndham senior leadership. No response, but I didn’t expect any.
 

Jan M.

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Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach, Wyndham Grand Desert, Wyndham Waikiki Beach Walk, Wyndham National Harbor, Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
I'm trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone else say their one year price lock wasn't honored. I wonder how time times people didn't realize that their price lock wasn't honored and catch it in time.
 

Iggyearl

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That's a lot of money! Your story is so sad as you seem to be a savvy consumer. And, you have to believe SOMEBODY.... Your warning will help a bunch of Wyndham owners on this site. If you want to go further "to get even," there are a bunch of complaint sites to spread your news. Pissedconsumer, Consumeraffairs, Complaintsboard, Ripoffreport, Tripadvisor, Yelp, and Trustpilot. Just an idea. I don't know how far you want to go. but you deserve some sort of justice.
 

SNA27

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Always think in terms of INCREMENTAL Costs. Divide incremental costs/incremental points.
Tell the sales weasel not to worry about what you already own. Why does it even come into the picture? Why would I want to buy back what I already own at 'today's low price'? :)
What kind of spell do they cast to prevent you from doing a cross-check by multiplying 145 x 169 = $24,505 and question the $29,400 figure? So, you were bilked about $5,000.

This is similar to the numbers game @Blonde reported recently. But the numbers were so egregious in that case, $349/1000, it was too obvious to detect and rescind.

If you have all the sheets showing the deceptive price, any handwritten material from the sales, sue them in small claims court just to recover the excess you feel you were duped out of. Worth the shot. Maybe even ask for a triple penalty for bad faith.
 
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pedro47

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Sound liked the average cost of a new Wyndham timeshare will cost between &25,000 and $30,000.00 dollars.
if you are buying directly from Wyndham.IMHO.
 
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GRapuser

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I have received at least three different explanations regarding what the "Price Lock" means. One salesperson told me that it is a lock on the "retail price per point" before the discount that nearly everyone receives. Basically, you are protected when the price goes up each year from say, $252 to $254 per thousand point. Given the language of the price lock sheet, it could be interpreted this way. I have also had a salesperson tell me that it only applies to the same inventory. So, if the first purchase was for Bonnet Creek UDI, the price lock would not apply to a CWA purchase. There was one more ridiculous reason I was given why the lower price would no longer apply to a purchase I was considering, but I forget what it was. I think that the best option if you want to buy retail is to just contact Telesales, which gave me a rate substantially lower than the "price lock" I had been promised.
 

SNA27

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Price-lock is a gimmick. I bet you can walk in and say you want to buy this for this amount, and they will pick the lock for you! :)
It's a power-play and it works well with automobile purchases. No sane dealer will let a cash buyer walk out without making a deal.
I wish I had tried that power-play during my last purchase in July. Anyway, I can't complain, the piggy-back was not a bad deal to reach the Founder level, after all.
 
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HitchHiker71

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Price-lock is a gimmick. I bet you can walk in and say you want to buy this for this amount, and they will pick the lock for you! :)
It's a power-play and it works well with automobile purchases. No sane dealer will let a cash buyer walk out without making a deal.
I wish I had tried that power-play during my last purchase in July. Anyway, I can't complain, the piggy-back was not a bad deal to reach the Founder level, after all.
It's not a gimmick, it's written into the legal timeshare contract - it's just not what people think it is. Below is an excerpt screenshot from my CWA contract executed in July 2018 that shows the "Price Freeze Authorization" form. Long story short - it is the "Gross Price" and not the "Net Price" that is subject to Price Freeze. Unless you catch this during contract signature and complain about it - they will not say anything to you of course - the stock verbiage will apply which results in Advantage: Wyndham.

1579814190321.png


Below is another screenshot that provides the Terms & Conditions from the same contract. If you want your price freeze to apply to the discounted price, you need to have them strike the verbiage that states: "This offer does not include special discounts" from the first bullet point in the contract. I would also modify the verbiage to explicitly have "net price" under the "Approved Pricing" section apply in the Terms & Conditions section.

1579814463236.png


If I were to have another go-around with Wyndham for a retail purchase, I would also insist on this clause being expanded to two years - to match the Bonus Point contract expiration - that way if I ever wanted to purchase any additional points - I'd be able to do so at the same discounted price up to two years after initial purchase - so when bonus points expire and any temp VIP status notches down - I'm guaranteed the same price point.
 

55plus

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I like the last bullet point, 'Subject to available.' It's an out for Wyndham.
 

SNA27

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I have seen that amidst my paperwork too. Meaningless sales 'gambit', imo.
If you would never buy at the gross price and not even at the standard discount but only at a deep discount from their absurd gross price, what good is the freeze protection against next year's increase in gross price? :)

Btw, I was going through my pictures looking for flags for Fred's thread on the lounge. I came across pictures of Wyndham offers to me that I surreptitiously took when the sales weasels left us alone for a bit. Totally unbelievable crap. I will post them on a separate thread.
 
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