Wyndham Privileges: new Wyndham VIP Levels starting late 2020 [Merged]

[Manzana]

That is not how I read it. I read that they adding two new levels - one at the bottom and one at the top (for a total of five levels as noted in the pic), and the existing levels remain the same (subject to whatever the blurb about "unlimited housekeeping changing" means).

If I had to guess, I would say that new VIP members are going to have some limit on housekeeping, and with existing VIPG and VIPP members grandfathered in on unlimited.

I am saying in the example that Cyrus gave where there was not a Silver level, and Diamond was included. I read the document the same as you. There are 2 new levels added one above and one below. However as Cyrus stated the levels there were changes. I am just saying it would be good question to ask for some clarity.

 

[ecwinch]

Right, You keep the unlimited housekeeping credits if you are currently VIP Silver (soon to be renamed to Gold) or above.


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I dont follow the logic that anything is going to be renamed. The pic clearly states that they are adding two new levels, for a total of five levels. It makes no mention of renaming.

Math is not my strong suit, but my public school education did teach me that 2+3 is 5.

 

[Manzana]

I dont follow the logic that anything is going to be renamed. The pic clearly states that they are adding two new levels, for a total of five levels.

Math is not my strong suit, but my public school education did teach me that 2+3 is 5.

They are based on 2 separate statements. One about the number of levels. The second which if you go through the thread mentions many times about the renaming of the levels. So as my math is ok 2=3=5 and so in fact does 3+2 =5
2 (Emerald, Titanium) + 3 ( Silver, Gold, Platinum)

3 ( Emerald, Diamond, Titanium) + 2(Gold, Platinum)

There is no logic to it just commenting on what was said. If there were logic to it you would not have gems with metals.

 

[Richelle]

I dont follow the logic that anything is going to be renamed. The pic clearly states that they are adding two new levels, for a total of five levels. It makes no mention of renaming.

Math is not my strong suit, but my public school education did teach me that 2+3 is 5.

Originally I was told (before this memo) that Gold is the new silver, platinum is the new gold, and Diamond is the new Platinum. I really do not understand why they need to shuffle things around like that.


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[ecwinch]

I get your point, but since the original sales person's report was based on the memo, I would say it is more likely just white noise from sales.

 

[ecwinch]

Originally I was told (before this memo) that Gold is the new silver, platinum is the new gold, and Diamond is the new Platinum. I really do not understand why they need to shuffle things around like that.


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Me either. Are you going to post this over in FB land? Bet they will go crazy.

 

[Richelle]

It's going to get wild.... I just told my wife that we may have to do another update next week in PCB.

100% agree. When it’s announced, people will either be praising it, or screaming that the sky is falling and the world is ending.


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[Cyrus24]

IF they change the names in the middle, they will be doing it for one reason, to Confuse the Owners. Brilliant move, sales can then say 'to get in on the new level, buy a few points at current prices and you'll be locked in'. This is what the weasel told us, buy 64K points and you'd be good. Sales Ploy. I did not bite, mainly because the weasel was just as confused as I was when I started asking about benefits at the new levels. To all prospective buyers, looking at VIP/Priviledges, don't buy until they role out the new benefits.

 

[Manzana]

IF they change the names in the middle, they will be doing it for one reason, to Confuse the Owners. Brilliant move, sales can then say 'to get in on the new level, buy a few points at current prices and you'll be locked in'. This is what the weasel told us, buy 64K points and you'd be good. Sales Ploy. I did not bite, mainly because the weasel was just as confused as I was when I started asking about benefits at the new levels. To all prospective buyers, looking at VIP/Priviledges, don't buy until they role out the new benefits.

This was exactly my point!! Thank you Cyrus.

 

[Richelle]

IF they change the names in the middle, they will be doing it for one reason, to Confuse the Owners. Brilliant move, sales can then say 'to get in on the new level, buy a few points at current prices and you'll be locked in'. This is what the weasel told us, buy 64K points and you'd be good. Sales Ploy. I did not bite, mainly because the weasel was just as confused as I was when I started asking about benefits at the new levels. To all prospective buyers, looking at VIP/Priviledges, don't buy until they role out the new benefits.

Considering they are giving owners until late 2020, there is no teal reason to buy right away. Although they probably will hike point prices. Still not enough reason to dive in right away.


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[Sandy VDH]

I guess I will just sit with my VIPP and see what happens.

 

[Richelle]

Me either. Are you going to post this over in FB land? Bet they will go crazy.

Someone posted this on the Happy Wyndham Owners Facebook group. I got booted out of the group, so didn’t see it until someone sent it to me. I asked the original poster to post it to the group I moderate.


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[Cyrus24]

Someone posted this on the Happy Wyndham Owners Facebook group. I got booted out of the group, so didn’t see it until someone sent it to me. I asked the original poster to post it to the group I moderate.


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I just saw it there, as well. Lots of speculating in that group, as well. The group size might start dropping as members express unhappiness over the potential change, they don't like unhappy posts in that group.

 

[GRapuser]

This is just for fun, but I wanted to look at the value of the new speculated tier names. All of these are prices per pound.

Titanium - $30
Diamond - $11,400,000 (for a pound of 1 carat diamonds, but value varies tremendously depending on quality)
Platinum - $12,709.44
Gold - $18,708.81
Emerald - $226,796 (for a pound of 1 carat emeralds, but value varies tremendously depending on quality)

It would make much more sense to name the lowest level Titanium and the two highest levels Emerald and Diamond, but that is why it probably won't happen that way.

 

[HitchHiker71]

This seems unlikely, as *someone* has to pay the MFs on the "missing" points, and my understanding is that that someone is the sales arm. It increases the value proposition of being VIP, sure, but it also significantly cuts into the margin for sales unless sales prices go up substantially, in turn erasing much of the value proposition of decreasing the spread between developer and secondary purchases.

In short: there is no free lunch.

Not if the sales projections show increased developer points sales high enough to offset the missing points and lower margins - this a volume play in other words. There are also potentially significant additional limitations on third party resale purchases under consideration to further degrade the spread. They will attack this issue from both sides, much like Disney and Hilton have done recently.


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[GRapuser]

There is a line-item in the Wyndham budget that is covered by program fees labeled "VIP Benefits", so it was my understanding that the cost of things like housekeeping fees and transaction fees beyond the allotted amount were covered by the program fees. Wouldn't this be the case for point discounts and upgrades as well? If so, would added benefits mean that the program fees are likely to increase more in the upcoming years?

 

[CO skier]

There are also potentially significant additional limitations on third party resale purchases under consideration to further degrade the spread. They will attack this issue from both sides, much like Disney and Hilton have done recently.

I would be interested to learn the changes to the Hilton and Disney programs that you think apply to Wyndham. I do not want to hijack this thread, so a new thread in the Wyndham forum summarizing the Hilton and Disney changes that you see related to the Wyndham resale market might be enlightening.

Wyndham is not Hilton or Disney. Looking at the most excellent Timeshare Comparison Chart engineered by TUGBrian (worth a million bucks to new and existing timeshare owners!)

https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/timeshare-system-comparison-chart.html

Wyndham has more than 100 resorts compared to 64 for Hilton and 13 for Disney, many of them not exactly up to HGVC and Disney standards. It is difficult enough now to move a Wyndham contract from one dues paying owner to another. If Wyndham somehow places “ significant additional limitations on third party resale purchases” what options do the selling Club Wyndham owners have? Ovation? Sure, but who pays the monthly maintenance fees until the Ovation contract is sold? Wyndham, of course.

I can see how the much discussed “no VIP benefits on resale contracts” might be part of the new program. (It is part of the WorldMark program). Beyond that, I see how limiting resale benefits (which are what? other than the ability to use the points just like a non-VIP Club Wyndham owner?) would amount to Wyndham shooting themselves in the foot with the higher, ongoing maintenance fees from Ovation turnovers.

Just out of curiosity, does Hilton or Disney essentially buyback all foreclosures and pay the maintenance fees until the foreclosure is resold? That is what Wyndham does in my Pagosa Springs HOA.

 

[geist1223]

They borrowed the name "Privileges" from Wyndham/WMSP. Wyndham/WMSP recently created the new 100 Club - own 100,000 WMSP Developer Credits/Points. This is roughly equivalent to 1,600,000 Wyndham Points.

 

[CO skier]

They borrowed the name "Privileges" from Wyndham/WMSP.

Next thing you know, they will be serving Vegemite for the owner update breakfasts.

 

[bnoble]

They will attack this issue from both sides, much like Disney and Hilton have done recently.

I've always thought they would eventually follow in Diamond/Marriott's path: creating a product that is a non-deeded usage assignment with a fee structure or new purchase requirement to "requalify" the points if they are sold. I was a little surprised that CWA did not do that.

Edited to add: now that I think about it, I suppose that's actually quite like what Disney is doing. For those that don't know: their newest resort is, essentially, a distinct "club" with a 1-1 exchange program between it and existing resorts. However, only developer purchases can participate. If you buy resale points at the 14 older resorts, they can only be used in one of those 14, and cannot be used at this, the 15th. If you buy resale points at the 15th, they can only be used at that resort. Presumably each new resort going forward will follow the same model, and be a standalone "club"--at least, it will if this restriction doesn't give too many buyers cold feet. (And I don't think it will). As far as I know, Disney does not offer a way to "requalify" those points. Yet.

 

[chapjim]

<snip>

It would make much more sense to name the lowest level Titanium and the two highest levels Emerald and Diamond, but that is why it probably won't happen that way.

I was thinking more along the lines of lead or tin.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I've always thought they would eventually follow in Diamond/Marriott's path: creating a product that is a non-deeded usage assignment with a fee structure or new purchase requirement to "requalify" the points if they are sold. I was a little surprised that CWA did not do that.

Edited to add: now that I think about it, I suppose that's actually quite like what Disney is doing. For those that don't know: their newest resort is, essentially, a distinct "club" with a 1-1 exchange program between it and existing resorts. However, only developer purchases can participate. If you buy resale points at the 14 older resorts, they can only be used in one of those 14, and cannot be used at this, the 15th. If you buy resale points at the 15th, they can only be used at that resort. Presumably each new resort going forward will follow the same model, and be a standalone "club"--at least, it will if this restriction doesn't give too many buyers cold feet. (And I don't think it will). As far as I know, Disney does not offer a way to "requalify" those points. Yet.

Yes, these are the types of considerations under discussion, among others from what I have heard. Toward @CO Skiers post, I’m not privy to the detailed discussions ongoing behind the scenes. What I will say is to remember where Michael Brown came from. HGVC. Executives often introduce and adopt ideas largely based upon previous experiences, just like every other human being on earth. Yes WD is different. I’m sure whatever ends up being done, if anything, will have its own Wyndham specific spin added to it. Only time will tell. Your guess is really as good as mine. I do agree with CO Skier that whatever it is that is done, the forecasts and the financials will have to demonstrate sustainability, feasibility and advantage to the business (and supposedly to us as owners at least in part).


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[Mary W]

I remember getting a survey from Wyndham a while back about which VIP extra perks would appeal the most to me. Now it makes more sense why they were sending it out. Wish I could still access the survey to look at the options again.

 

[Kozman]

So? If I am currently Gold and will be 'grandfathered' in to Platinum does that mean I will then get a 50% discount instead of 35% discount that I currently get as Gold or will the name just change like getting an honorary college degree?

 

[Cyrus24]

So? If I am currently Gold and will be 'grandfathered' in to Platinum does that mean I will then get a 50% discount instead of 35% discount that I currently get as Gold or will the name just change like getting an honorary college degree?

I suspect the latter. This is all about confusing owners just enough to get us to buy more points.