Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[Rolltydr]

Was Wyndham even trying to sell deeded weeks at any of these resorts? Certainly, we know they were sitting on a bunch of inventory--did they have sales centers at these properties selling anything? If so, what were they selling? CWA?

Read post #3511.

 

[shawnee83]

Was Wyndham even trying to sell deeded weeks at any of these resorts? Certainly, we know they were sitting on a bunch of inventory--did they have sales centers at these properties selling anything? If so, what were they selling? CWA?

We are Shawnee fixed-week owners and went to a few sales pitches where they tried to get us to buy "points" based on our fixed week ownership. I can't recall how long they've been doing that; somebody said ten years and I think that is probably about right. We bought in 2001 on the resale market, and back then Shawnee was still a "standalone" entity. Maybe around 2005, Fairfield bought it and tied it into a number of other resorts and at some point that turned into Club Wyndham which recently got bought by Travel & Leisure.

That's a long way of saying (or repeating) that T&L/Wyndham has not sold fixed weeks for quite some time. I don't know if the "points" they were selling were Club Wyndham Access because frankly I was not that interested in the sales pitch... just wanted an extra week

 

[dioxide45]

So when Wyndham sales is always trying to sell CWS if you own CWA, they are really pushing some property that is setup as UDI? Then if you own CWS they are trying to push CWA.

 

[nibble4bits]

Shawnee Depuy is pretty much the same exact result as River Village's HOA meeting.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/128099210540569/

 

[nibble4bits]

Sorry I borked that link. This is the correct one for Depuy.

Shawnee, Village People and Friends | Owners need to vote | Facebook

Owners need to vote ! The owners decide by vote, not the HOAs themselves. Attend your meeting in person or via zoom so you get all the info, then vote!

www.facebook.com

 

[shawnee83]

So when Wyndham sales is always trying to sell CWS if you own CWA, they are really pushing some property that is setup as UDI? Then if you own CWS they are trying to push CWA.

UDI? Tried to look it up but the search tool wouldn't take it... "too short or too many matches"

EDIT: TUG search tool wouldn't work but duckduckgo found it... Uniform Deeded Interest. There's even a TUGBBS thread about it: UDI deeded interest

I still don't know from CWS, CWA, UDI and at this point can't say it really matters.

 

[schreff]

Another problem that worries me is that at the beginning of this thread it was titled " Wyndham is closing a handful of resorts............". Now, that handful is 14 here and 15 if you consider Kauai Beach Villas. This is 3 handfuls not one with the question remaining, how many more Legacy resorts is Wyndham planning to close in the future?????

We are Legacy owners who kept buying points to reach a goal of VIP Platinum. Now, with the recent death of Legacy resorts, it appears that our choice of not taking CWA points has been taken away if we want to retain our VIP Platinum status. Am I correct?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Was Wyndham even trying to sell deeded weeks at any of these resorts? Certainly, we know they were sitting on a bunch of inventory--did they have sales centers at these properties selling anything? If so, what were they selling? CWA?

Having attended many a sales update at Wyndham Shawnee over the years, it’s always either CWA or another deeded UDI resort like NH or M45. I’ve literally asked if I could purchase Shawnee inventory and was told that there’s no inventory available at Crestview, which is the only UDI contracts at Shawnee, and therefore unless I own a legacy deeded week at Shawnee that I could convert into points, it’s not possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

UDI? Tried to look it up but the search tool wouldn't take it... "too short or too many matches"

EDIT: TUG search tool wouldn't work but duckduckgo found it... Uniform Deeded Interest. There's even a TUGBBS thread about it: UDI deeded interest

I still don't know from CWS, CWA, UDI and at this point can't say it really matters.

UDI =Undivided Deeded Interest

It’s a pure points contract that behaves like a RTU or trust based ownership but you still technically own a deeded interest - it’s just not tied to any specific interval like a DDI or Divided Deeded Interest contract. Weeks based owners hold a DDI or DI contract in other words - since you have a specific divided interest in a specific interval week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dsalomon]

It’s part of the hotel brand/company, not the timeshare.

Yes, so Wyndham manages properties that wish to use their Brand name such as WorldMark and many others. This is a separate query: Wyndham’s market seems focus on lower income groups vs Marriot Bonvoy for higher income groups. On a worldwide basis which membership has greater benefits? Thanks

 

[dsalomon]

Yes, so Wyndham manages properties that wish to use their Brand name such as WorldMark and many others. This is a separate query: Wyndham’s market seems focus on lower income groups vs Marriot Bonvoy for higher income groups. On a worldwide basis which membership has greater benefits? Thanks

Wyndham Hotels and Resorts and Marriott Bonvoy are
separate hotel chains with different target audiences, brand portfolios, and loyalty programs. Wyndham focuses on budget-friendly and mid-market brands with its Wyndham Rewards program, which is often cited as offering good value for frequent, budget-conscious travelers. In contrast, Marriott has a broader portfolio ranging from economy to luxury, and its Marriott Bonvoy program is known for its large global footprint and valuable elite status, though it can be more expensive and less rewarding for some budget travelers,

 

[Arimaas]

Yes, so Wyndham manages properties that wish to use their Brand name such as WorldMark and many others. This is a separate query: Wyndham’s market seems focus on lower income groups vs Marriot Bonvoy for higher income groups. On a worldwide basis which membership has greater benefits? Thanks

I had a HGVC timeshare at one point in time, and I believe that HGVC targets to a higher socioeconomic group than Wyndahm does (personal opinion, not based on any hard facts, don't mean to be insulting). This may have changed since I haven't been a HGVC since they began to do all these crazy things with their program, in terms of spin off clubs, etc.

I actually dumped HGVC for more Wyndham, just because of the availability of Wyndham locations in the northeast versus HGVC (although, obviously that is now changing). I'll be honest, I've enjoyed Wyndahm's properties much more than HGVC. For example Bonnet Creek is nicer than HGVCs in Orlando. I really like Towers on the Grove better than Myrtle Beach HGVCs. So while I agree, Wyndham does market to a lower socioeconomic group than some of the other clubs, I think the properties are just as nice, or even nicer. However, because of this, it seems as though the sales folks, while just as slimy at every club, they are a bit higher class than the Wyndham sales folks, which includes the snacks, foods, and just the way the sales folks carry themselves.

 

[paxsarah]

Yes, so Wyndham manages properties that wish to use their Brand name such as WorldMark and many others. This is a separate query: Wyndham’s market seems focus on lower income groups vs Marriot Bonvoy for higher income groups. On a worldwide basis which membership has greater benefits? Thanks

No, I mean that Club Wyndham (along with Worldmark by Wyndham and other timeshares) are part of a completely different corporation (Travel + Leisure, TNL) than that Cabo hotel, which is part of Wyndham Hotels and Resorts (WH). While they do maintain a marketing and promotion relationship, the two corporations are otherwise completely separate. Club Wyndham/TNL has no control over the hotels owned/managed/franchised by WH.

 

[liuzzobd]

I feel the same way. the nearest resort is national harbor.

 

[schreff]

I had a HGVC timeshare at one point in time, and I believe that HGVC targets to a higher socioeconomic group than Wyndahm does (personal opinion, not based on any hard facts, don't mean to be insulting). This may have changed since I haven't been a HGVC since they began to do all these crazy things with their program, in terms of spin off clubs, etc.

I actually dumped HGVC for more Wyndham, just because of the availability of Wyndham locations in the northeast versus HGVC (although, obviously that is now changing). I'll be honest, I've enjoyed Wyndahm's properties much more than HGVC. For example Bonnet Creek is nicer than HGVCs in Orlando. I really like Towers on the Grove better than Myrtle Beach HGVCs. So while I agree, Wyndham does market to a lower socioeconomic group than some of the other clubs, I think the properties are just as nice, or even nicer. However, because of this, it seems as though the sales folks, while just as slimy at every club, they are a bit higher class than the Wyndham sales folks, which includes the snacks, foods, and just the way the sales folks carry themselves.

Yes, the Northeast Wyndhams were the reason that we climbed up the VIP ladder. Our children and grandchildren always liked to get stay att these closer resorts on long weekends and holidays. Now, they are gone and like the above post stated, National Harbor is the closest for us too.
I am hoping that the reason why Wyndham has not yet cancelled our 2026 reservations at Bentley Brook, Skyline Towers, etc. is that they are planning to surprise us on the purchase of new replacement resorts for the 14 pending closure.

 

[chapjim]

Deleted. Dumb post!

 

[Jan M.]

Yes, the Northeast Wyndhams were the reason that we climbed up the VIP ladder. Our children and grandchildren always liked to get stay att these closer resorts on long weekends and holidays. Now, they are gone and like the above post stated, National Harbor is the closest for us too.
I am hoping that the reason why Wyndham has not yet cancelled our 2026 reservations at Bentley Brook, Skyline Towers, etc. is that they are planning to surprise us on the purchase of new replacement resorts for the 14 pending closure.

There was an announcement released that Wyndham will be adding the Sports Illustrated resorts which are/will be located in college towns.

Sports Illustrated Resorts and Travel + Leisure Team Up

Sports Illustrated Resorts and Travel + Leisure join forces unveiling a game-changing partnership.

www.travelandleisureco.com

 

[RENTER]

Update for Shawnee River Village.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19rPK6AiSd/

NOTE - the text below is not my post, I am copying the text in case the post on Facebook is deleted or removed in the future. There are presentation screenshots supplementing her text on the FB post.

==
My husband and I attended a meeting today for our HOA (River Village, overlooking the golf course)
There were speakers from K&L Gates (the law firm representing the associations) and Hilco Real Estate, and a representative of Club Wyndham. The meeting was about 2 hours, and followed a same or similar meeting before it - as we waited to enter, and the other owners came out, they were all shaking their heads, and some saying "Wyndham screwed us!" So we didn't have high hopes going in, unfortunately.
There was a lot of information. Here is my takeaway....
Apparently this all came about (or was announced) in July, and our HOA representative was blindsided by the whole thing, as we all have been. Bottom line is, Wyndham controls 61% and as of the end of December, they are out and the resort will be closed. Without a managing corporation to run it, we are at a loss, and as of now there is no one coming forward to take over. They are siting the need for renovations and ADA compliance that will cost millions for the entirety of the property (approx $3 million for River Village alone)
In the last couple of years, occupancy is way down (32%) with 2/3 of units vacant. An increase in maintenance fees would only bring more delinquency and continue to bring us down.
Declaring bankruptcy would be the most efficient way to go forward with sale - the funds that the association has in reserve (for river village that is approximately 2 million right now) would be used for upkeep of the property during the period of time it takes to sell, and anything leftover would go back to owners.
Anyone who still has weeks between now and the end of December can use them. If you have prepaid your maintenance fee for 2026 (without banking your week) you can get that refunded. If you have banked the 2026 week, you still have the option of using it elsewhere, so no refund.
Hilco Real estate estimates the value of the entire property at about 13 to 14 million. It could be sold in entirety, or in lots, we don't know what will happen.
They mentioned an email being sent out soon with more information and a phone number to call...
Wyndham is offering a "swap" deal - you can opt for a share of the eventual sale, OR "Club Wyndham Access" - a 1 for 1 swap of your current points, or if you have a fixed week (no points) they will calculate points value based on your week and size of unit.
So, the place is closing and being sold, no matter what. The meeting and "voting" was informational but does not change the outcome.
We (my family) do plan to take whatever payout there will be (have no use for Wyndham after all this) and will continue to visit the area and patronize all the local spots we've come to enjoy - and hope that they all stay in business after this devastating loss.
Very curious to see how it all pans out - I would hope for another "hospitality" group taking over so that we can still have the opportunity to visit and enjoy our beloved Shawnee Village.
I am attaching pictures of slides that were shown during the meeting. I have said all I can remember, in the way that I processed the information given. If anyone else attended this, or another HOA meeting and has more information, or can clarify or correct if I got anything wrong, please share. I'm sure many will still have questions, and I don't know if I will have answers, sorry , I did the best I could

They claim that occupancy is down 32% over the past few years. I have to wonder if that has anything to do with the crackdown on renters in the past few years. We were renting to families from NYC and Philly during the fall, summer and winter. During mud season to local families who were celebrating birthdays and wanted to use the indoor pool. Also to families of East Stroudsburg University students attending school events during mud seaso

 

[comicbookman]

They claim that occupancy is down 32% over the past few years. I have to wonder if that has anything to do with the crackdown on renters in the past few years. We were renting to families from NYC and Philly during the fall, summer and winter. During mud season to local families who were celebrating birthdays and wanted to use the indoor pool. Also to families of East Stroudsburg University students attending school events during mud seaso

Actually, they said occupancy was at 32%, not down 32% (way down (32%) with 2/3 of units vacant) Also said Wyndham owned 61% of the units. Those levels are unsustainable regardless of how much of it was due to your consortium of mega renters, as you could only fill 39% of the resort.

 

[dsalomon]

You know that, and I know that, and most of the people posting in this thread know that.

But most wyndham owners don't.

It'll be great when we start getting reports from people saying "the salesperson at brand X told me Wyndham is going bankrupt and showed me a list of resorts that have already closed and said if I didn't trade in my wyndham plus $40k I'd be liable for an entire resort's debts!?!?"

Lots of misinformation/disinformation. It’s the age of algorithms, AI and social media.

 

[CO skier]

It’s the age of algorithms, AI and social media.

It has been the "age of social media" for more than a decade and people still purchase timeshares at Developer prices.

 

[nibble4bits]

The Shawnee HOA meetings were interesting ones to read. A question came up if Wyndham themselves plan on buying the resort. They completely danced around the question. They didn't say yes but they didn't say no. They said the site wasn't in their interest. That could also be interpreted as "at present condition" it's not in their interest.

This is ALL PURE SPECULATION here..

They play the long game. They get the resort management contract, stop helping owners advertising the week-long ownerships by no longer posting which ones are available for purchase. They no longer offer selling the weeklong deeds they do actually get a hold of so they can keep them in stock for their points/rewards programs. They slowly try to convince the owners to transfer to the points system because it won't sell and transfer the deed to Wyndham in exchange for points - because resellers will barely earn them anything, owners can only give them away. It will cost you money to get rid of by paying legal paperwork, but their points system will "give you more CHOICE." They also slowly accumulate ownership of the deeds from deceased owners.

Their points system is easier to keep the steadfast owners at bay because now they have more control on the availability of vacant properties without resulting in refund vouchers when they inevitably mess up (it's happened to us twice over ten years). They slowly get to the point that they have now become majority owners in most of the villages over the years so it isn't immediately clear that they had a majority claim. Over time, it looks like interest in ownership there is DOWN. This earns a lower resale value on the property by establishing a long history of low-occupancy and dilapidated older buildings. And now, the resort is "too expensive to maintain." They cite compliance with the ADA but most of the resort was built before ADA requirements, so it's for the most part grandfathered in. The fireplaces five years ago that were decommissioned and promised to be restored on the next remodels - and never complete on that promise. The internet service was there, and worked at sub-par levels even by Poconos-area standards. They were deliberately making it less enjoyable to stay at in order to condition the owners to desire somewhere else more profitable in their rewards/points system networks because selling the timeshare was made impractical. But we held on - so they had to play the game a bit longer.

Now, they own the majority stake. We're shocked, but at this time it's evident, they already mostly own the site anyway. They just can't get away with demolishing and rebuilding without massive headaches by existing owners. They get the site valued, it's estimated at 13-15 million. They will get 60% of the final proceeds (not the selling cost, the proceeds after expenses) after closing. Even if they only owned 50% and let's say it sells for the lesser 13 million.. they'd get ~5 million proceeds back after the expenses are taken out? That cost mentioned to only remodel up to standards? 4 million? It's almost certainly cheaper to tear down and rebuild with no owners in the way. After the proceeds - maybe it'll cost them another 6-10 mil to completely tear down and rebuild, and now they have zero owner pushback to fight and can exclusively offer the reconstructed site to points and rewards members. And now, as the sole owner, they have complete control of the entire resort.

Again, it's just speculation. Maybe they do want it to sell. Maybe they want to buy it cheap, flip it, and get even more money back. Maybe it'll become luxury golf resort condos only for points/rewards members. Only Wyndham knows for sure.

 

[comicbookman]

The Shawnee HOA meetings were interesting ones to read. A question came up if Wyndham themselves plan on buying the resort. They completely danced around the question. They didn't say yes but they didn't say no. They said the site wasn't in their interest. That could also be interpreted as "at present condition" it's not in their interest.

This is ALL PURE SPECULATION here..

They play the long game. They get the resort management contract, stop helping owners advertising the week-long ownerships by no longer posting which ones are available for purchase. They no longer offer selling the weeklong deeds they do actually get a hold of so they can keep them in stock for their points/rewards programs. They slowly try to convince the owners to transfer to the points system because it won't sell and transfer the deed to Wyndham in exchange for points - because resellers will barely earn them anything, owners can only give them away. It will cost you money to get rid of by paying legal paperwork, but their points system will "give you more CHOICE." They also slowly accumulate ownership of the deeds from deceased owners.

Their points system is easier to keep the steadfast owners at bay because now they have more control on the availability of vacant properties without resulting in refund vouchers when they inevitably mess up (it's happened to us twice over ten years). They slowly get to the point that they have now become majority owners in most of the villages over the years so it isn't immediately clear that they had a majority claim. Over time, it looks like interest in ownership there is DOWN. This earns a lower resale value on the property by establishing a long history of low-occupancy and dilapidated older buildings. And now, the resort is "too expensive to maintain." They cite compliance with the ADA but most of the resort was built before ADA requirements, so it's for the most part grandfathered in. The fireplaces five years ago that were decommissioned and promised to be restored on the next remodels - and never complete on that promise. The internet service was there, and worked at sub-par levels even by Poconos-area standards. They were deliberately making it less enjoyable to stay at in order to condition the owners to desire somewhere else more profitable in their rewards/points system networks because selling the timeshare was made impractical. But we held on - so they had to play the game a bit longer.

Now, they own the majority stake. We're shocked, but at this time it's evident, they already mostly own the site anyway. They just can't get away with demolishing and rebuilding without massive headaches by existing owners. They get the site valued, it's estimated at 13-15 million. They will get 60% of the final proceeds (not the selling cost, the proceeds after expenses) after closing. Even if they only owned 50% and let's say it sells for the lesser 13 million.. they'd get ~5 million proceeds back after the expenses are taken out? That cost mentioned to only remodel up to standards? 4 million? It's almost certainly cheaper to tear down and rebuild with no owners in the way. After the proceeds - maybe it'll cost them another 6-10 mil to completely tear down and rebuild, and now they have zero owner pushback to fight and can exclusively offer the reconstructed site to points and rewards members. And now, as the sole owner, they have complete control of the entire resort.

Again, it's just speculation. Maybe they do want it to sell. Maybe they want to buy it cheap, flip it, and get even more money back. Maybe it'll become luxury golf resort condos only for points/rewards members. Only Wyndham knows for sure.

Of course, you skipped the part where the 13 million sale price has to come from Wyndham. Also, the money Wyndham has been losing over the last several years keeping the resort afloat by paying maintenance fees on units nobody is using. If they get 5 million back, that's still 7 million out of pocket plus the lost maintenance fees, before any renovations or rebuilds. So probably still too expensive. Nice story, but it falls apart quickly.

 

[bizaro86]

I don't think Wyndham will be buying any of the resorts. The controlled them before, if they wanted to keep control they wouldn't have bothered with all of this.

 

[CO skier]

Again, it's just speculation. Maybe they do want it to sell. Maybe they want to buy it cheap, flip it, and get even more money back. Maybe it'll become luxury golf resort condos only for points/rewards members. Only Wyndham knows for sure.

That is not speculation; it is pure baloney. "Luxury golf condos?" good grief. The total occupancy at these resorts runs 40-60%. Wyndham and the other owners will be lucky to find a buyer at >10 million dollars.

Wyndham, just like so many remaining owners, just want out as cheaply and easily as possible.