Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[comicbookman]

Actually, all states except one are at-will employment. So they don't require any kind of employee notice. State and federal law requires WARN notices, but those notices are to state and federal regulators not employees.

However, 13 states have laws requiring warning of a known shutdown or mass layoff. those 13 include New York, New Jersey and Tennessee, 3 states relevant here. These states have lower thresholds than the federal law which requires notice if an employer has at least 100 employees and 50 are being laid off or let go. The federal law requires 60 days notice as do most states, but New Jersey requires 90. The federal Warn act requires "60 days’ advance written notice to the employees, their union (where applicable), and state and local governmental leaders." Wyndham clearly has more than 100 employees, maybe not at each resort, but in the resort management dept. They ar also clearly letting go of more than 50 employees total. As for sub contractors, i would expect there contracts require notice of a shutdown and contract termination.

 

[Greeneyedbandit64]

KBV is a unique and unfortunate situation. The resort, in addition to the timeshare units, has a number of privately owned units/condos in the other buildings with people living in them as their homes. For them unfortunate doesn't even come close to describing their situation!

KBV voted out Wyndham as their management company back around maybe 2016-2018. Within a year or two they brought Wyndham back. Is Wyndham withdrawing this time or was voted out again? I'd think they'd be withdrawing this time on the advice of their legal team to disassociate the company with the ongoing legal issues. It makes sense that their legal team's advise would be to withdraw to avoid claims of a conflict of interest and to keep the company out of the ongoing owner complaints and drama.

From what we know those two oceanfront buildings were declared unfit/unsafe for occupancy, not feasibly repairable, and condemned. Also didn't Hawaii/Kauai say that because of their proximity to the ocean they can't demolish those buildings and rebuild on those spots/lots? The cost of demolishing them is significant and hasn't proceeded because everything is tied up with the ongoing lawsuits and unpaid assessment monies needed to do the work.

We enjoyed our stay at KBV. In DH's opinion the tree lined road into the resort rivals the Tunnel of Trees tourists pay to do. That, the central location on the island for doing the various tourist things, and short distance from the airport, Costco, shopping, make the resort a real gem.

So does that mean we can get out of this time share and stop paying fees

 

[dioxide45]

However, 13 states have laws requiring warning of a known shutdown or mass layoff. those 13 include New York, New Jersey and Tennessee, 3 states relevant here. These states have lower thresholds than the federal law which requires notice if an employer has at least 100 employees and 50 are being laid off or let go. The federal law requires 60 days notice as do most states, but New Jersey requires 90. The federal Warn act requires "60 days’ advance written notice to the employees, their union (where applicable), and state and local governmental leaders." Wyndham clearly has more than 100 employees, maybe not at each resort, but in the resort management dept. They ar also clearly letting go of more than 50 employees total. As for sub contractors, i would expect there contracts require notice of a shutdown and contract termination.

Companies can also simply payout the employee during the notice period. So they can provide notice today, have you stop work today as long as they still pay you through the notice period. If they didn't want to do that, they could have waited The first of October or even November before providing notice, but they did so in July.

 

[Greeneyedbandit64]

I don't know if this is related, but Wyndham notified the board at Kauai Beach Villas that they are terminating the Pahio management contract with the resort at the end of the year. (Pahio is owned by Wyndham.)

As you may recall, Kauai Beach Villas is the Kauai resort that is falling apart due to poor construction and maintenance issues, with an estimated $67 million dollar special assessment needed to correct all of the issues. 2 of it's 3 oceanfront buildings have been closed, stripped of their landscaping and irrigation systems, and allowed to fall into serious disrepair.

The board is holding an election on Sept. 19th for owners to vote on Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

So will this eliminate my contract with Pahio? How can I find that info out? Do I have to make my next payment for 2026?

 

[comicbookman]

Companies can also simply payout the employee during the notice period. So they can provide notice today, have you stop work today as long as they still pay you through the notice period. If they didn't want to do that, they could have waited The first of October or even November before providing notice, but they did so in July.

Considering the votes are taking place in September, and December 31 was a target date, July seems prudent. I mean you already claimed that warn notices don't need to be sent to employees, so I would say your interpretation of these laws is already suspect.

 

[Floridaman76]

Wyndham has over 500,000 owners. They will certainly be surprised when a “huge majority” of those show up at 12 resorts that have shown declining owner occupancy over the past few years. How many are you expecting will show up? 300,000? 400,000?

That's a really ridiculousky inaccurate take. It really is.

Yeah, definitely nobody has booked Bently Brook over the winter skiing months this year.

Your post is extremely dismissive of people who HAVE made plans and are unaware this is ocurring. And by the time this is announced, their ability to book at the resorts which will still exist, and also make travel arrangements will be extremely limited.

 

[dioxide45]

Considering the votes are taking place in September, and December 31 was a target date, July seems prudent. I mean you already claimed that warn notices don't need to be sent to employees, so I would say your interpretation of these laws is already suspect.

But aren't the noticed just in advance of the date of termination of employment? Not the date of any vote. Their termination doesn't coincide with some vote by the ownership? Their termination is 12/31, no?

I should also ask, has T+L even filed official WARN notices for any of these layoffs?
Just looked in TN, and I don't see one.

 

[Greeneyedbandit64]

It’s not directly related. There’s a very large thread elsewhere about KBV IIRC. It’s a long drawn out story with a ton of history. The fact that it is being removed at year end doesn’t necessarily tie this particular resort into the actions specific to this thread. That likely has to do with the fact that 12/31/2025 is the end of the fiscal year, which would be the case for almost any action taken to remove a resort from the system in an effort to minimize complexity. I will confirm with my Wyndham contacts to be sure.

So If I own at this resort …do I still have to pay my timeshare fees for 2026!

 

[comicbookman]

But aren't the noticed just in advance of the date of termination of employment? Not the date of any vote. Their termination doesn't coincide with some vote by the ownership? Their termination is 12/31, no?

I should also ask, has T+L even filed official WARN notices for any of these layoffs?
Just looked in TN, and I don't see one.

Yes it is based on termination dates, but those were projected dates. It is always possible, though unlikely, that an earlier date might have been picked for some odd reason.

 

[Rolltydr]

That's a really ridiculousky inaccurate take. It really is.

Yeah, definitely nobody has booked Bently Brook over the winter skiing months this year.

Your post is extremely dismissive of people who HAVE made plans and are unaware this is ocurring. And by the time this is announced, their ability to book at the resorts which will still exist, and also make travel arrangements will be extremely limited.

This is your direct quote? What part of my response is inaccurate?

Yep... "the window is closing" to make plans for the holidays. And a huge majority of your ownership who made holiday plans at the ~12 or so resorts you are closing are going to be left out in the cold with nowhere to go.

 

[dioxide45]

Please point me toward the governing trust documentation that provides for this legal standpoint you’re referring to. Be specific.


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Hasn't it been stated multiple times in this thread that Wyndham can drop a resort at any time from the system? I could also ask you the same question, point to where the legal standpoint is supported that says Wyndham must continue to accept reservations into 2026 for club bookings.

 

[geist1223]

Better buy some more points!

As a Salesperson says the more points you buy you get a higher priority for Booking

 

[dioxide45]

few takeaway points from a conversation I had today with an industry source I trust.

1. I no longer expect ANY of these resorts to remain in operation as timeshares, period. to put it another way, the chances of any owners at these resorts retaining their existing timeshare ownership under Wyndham or any other timeshare entity is slim to none.

owners will likely be faced with two choices sometime in 2026:

1. wait out the process and cross your fingers the resort properties get sold and you get a cut of the proceeds after the bankruptcy process completes (meanwhile youd still have to pay your 2026 fees)
2. accept a cwa transfer when offered if you wish to remain a Wyndham timeshare owner.
3. not pay your 2026 fees and wash your hands of it all.

2. I don't expect this arbitrary deadline of 12/31/25 to remain in place. now what happens on 1/1/2026 remains to be seen, but the idea that all these resorts are even going to complete the necessary/legal processes and procedures to prepare and proceed with bankruptcy/sale/etc within the next few months is a pipe dream. honestly I have no idea where this drop dead date came from, but I dont see it sticking given the things that would need to be sorted out before then.


The main reason for my opinions changing on this rely on the timeshare replacement laws that would force Wyndham to provide equal interval replacements into the system for any weeks/points/intervals they sold/removed. This however apparently does NOT apply if the resort itself declares bankruptcy and is sold as part of that process. As such, this entire strategy makes way more sense as there would be no financial benefit to wyndham trying to sell these resorts as is(nor any benefit to a 3rd party BUYING the resorts as is, as they would have to take the bad debt and all wyndham owned inventory as part of the sale). This would also allow the disposal of any/all developer owned inventory and maintenance fee obligations. a win win for Wyndham....notsomuch for the owners at these resorts though!

I know I am replying to an older post in the thread, but I was thinking more about this. I am curious what replacement laws exist? Reading up on this some more, I understand that the replacement requirements are part of the trust and really just to compensate owners whose properties are being closed and removed from the system with equivalent points. Wyndham already seems willing to do that by providing owners with CWA points free of charge. So they seem to have met the trust's replacement requirements. Where are there laws stating they need to replace a property that was removed with a different property? When the closed properties in the past, did they replace it will another property?

 

[paxsarah]

IMO if the resorts can inform the employees of the resort that they should be aware the resort is closing/etc on 1/1/2026.... there is no valid reason at this point to not inform the owners of the possibility they wont be able to check in after 1/1/2026.

even if you decided not to make the announcement to EVERY owner, reaching out to anyone with an existing reservation for 2026 seems fairly prudent to me.

Seriously, the current message to owners should be “I can’t give you details, but let’s just say that every employee at this resort has been informed they’re out of a job after 12/31/25 <wink>.” It’s true, it seems legal to make public, problem solved!

 

[paxsarah]

According to the Wyndham missive, it will not be honored, as only reservations up through the end of 2025 will be honored. I would not count on these reservations being honored, make alternate arrangements. There's a 95% chance that regardless of the resort disposition specifics and timelines, Wyndham is going to remove the impacted resorts from Club Wyndham effective 12/31/2025. Be prepared to live with disappointment if you're hoping this is all going to somehow work out to your advantage.

I agree I think all reservations in 2026 are almost certainly not happening, but that’s not what the missive says. It is completely silent on the issue of 2026 reservations. One might infer that they will not be honored - or one might infer that it’s not yet determined, or that it might vary from resort to resort. The reason we infer that it means that only 2025 reservations will be honored and not 2026 is because we are also aware of credible information that is also not stated anywhere by Wyndham - that employees at all of those resorts have been told their jobs are ending on 12/31/2025 because the resorts are closing (as well as unofficial confirmations from other sources inside Wyndham, I assume). If someone wasn’t aware of that independent information, I don’t think the inference that 2026 reservations will definitely not be honored because Wyndham’s page only mentions 2025 reservations is that obvious.

 

[paxsarah]

Per an owner on Facebook:
“Received an email today from Wyndham requesting we sign a proxy ballot for them to proceed with bankruptcy of Fairfield Bay.
Was not surprised about this. Just didn't expect it this soon.”

I had to chuckle about “this soon” given the current discussions over here.

 

[GlennBenscoter]

Yeah, definitely nobody has booked Bently Brook over the winter skiing months this year.

Wrong, I am an owner there and just heard of this yesterday. I have booked there and have friends coming also. Why is there the usual amount of availability there on their calendar?

 

[HitchHiker71]

I agree I think all reservations in 2026 are almost certainly not happening, but that’s not what the missive says. It is completely silent on the issue of 2026 reservations. One might infer that they will not be honored - or one might infer that it’s not yet determined, or that it might vary from resort to resort. The reason we infer that it means that only 2025 reservations will be honored and not 2026 is because we are also aware of credible information that is also not stated anywhere by Wyndham - that employees at all of those resorts have been told their jobs are ending on 12/31/2025 because the resorts are closing (as well as unofficial confirmations from other sources inside Wyndham, I assume). If someone wasn’t aware of that independent information, I don’t think the inference that 2026 reservations will definitely not be honored because Wyndham’s page only mentions 2025 reservations is that obvious.

I disagree, this is the exact verbiage in the communication:

“You can expect the same level of incredible vacations during this transition. If you have already made a reservation at one of these resorts, don’t worry. All existing reservations will be honored through the end of 2025.”

Bolded emphasis mine. It does NOT say all reservations will be honored through the end of 2026. It is clear to me that all reservations at the impacted resorts will only be honored through the end of 2025.


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[Silverdollar]

I have a question about the CWA maintenance fee after all is said and done with the legacy resort closures.

It is my understanding the CWA maintenance fee is based on the average MFs of all Club Wyndham resorts in the CWA trust. If so, do you think the CWA MF will increase, decrease or remain the same following the closure of the legacy resorts?

 

[JulieB4]

I received an email yesterday from Wyndham about Fairfield Bay. Attached is a ballot regarding Chapter 11 bankruptcy.


We will be signing and hoping this gets settled soon.

Per an owner on Facebook:
“Received an email today from Wyndham requesting we sign a proxy ballot for them to proceed with bankruptcy of Fairfield Bay.
Was not surprised about this. Just didn't expect it this soon.”

I had to chuckle about “this soon” given the current discussions over here.

Well Chuckles, that was petty. Didn't think I had to spell it out.
We did not expect to be contacted until the end of the year or first part of 2026.

 

[dioxide45]

I have a question about the CWA maintenance fee after all is said and done with the legacy resort closures.

It is my understanding the CWA maintenance fee is based on the average MFs of all Club Wyndham resorts in the CWA trust. If so, do you think the CWA MF will increase, decrease or remain the same following the closure of the legacy resorts?

Given the size of the CWA trust, I wouldn't expect it to have any significant impact on fees when evaluating on $/1000.

 

[hjsweet2002]

That's a really ridiculousky inaccurate take. It really is.

Yeah, definitely nobody has booked Bently Brook over the winter skiing months this year.

Your post is extremely dismissive of people who HAVE made plans and are unaware this is ocurring. And by the time this is announced, their ability to book at the resorts which will still exist, and also make travel arrangements will be extremely limited.

We have book Thanksgiving and Christmas week at Bentley Brook.

 

[sponger76]

Wrong, I am an owner there and just heard of this yesterday. I have booked there and have friends coming also. Why is there the usual amount of availability there on their calendar?

I'm fairly certain, given the context where they made that statement in response to another, that it was sarcasm and not what they actually believe.

 

[hnybee09]

Yes, for the small percentage of the total ownership who are active either here on TUG or on the Facebook groups. I'm fine. I made my backup reservation on July 12. But there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of owners who have no idea. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm advocating for them, because they're obviously not here to do so.

Even the ones who are being advised to have a back up plan who are active in Facebook groups won't do it because it has not come from Wyndham and they are not going to change their plans based on "rumors". Some have even gotten downright nasty about it, and all I tell myself is well you can't help someone who does not want to help themselves.

 

[Floridaman76]

Wrong, I am an owner there and just heard of this yesterday. I have booked there and have friends coming also. Why is there the usual amount of availability there on their calendar?

I was being sarcastic in that statement. Another owner rollyman or whatever was saying nobody goes to these resorts that are closing...

Many people have countered the "nobody goes to these resorts that are closing" by stating that some of them (BB, Jamestown, etc) are often at capacity, especially during peak season