Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[dioxide45]

I can’t find the list/tracker in the comments. Will someone post again?

It is the first post in this thread.

 

[Twenty20]

I look at it much differenty than you. With my purhcase on the resale market, I paid just about $1500 including all costs. I have about 500k points, and I pay about $7.50/1000 in MFs. I am traveling to New Orleans in Mardi Gras for 112k points in a 1BR for 5 nights. That's $840, or $168/night and there is no extra taxes or fees. There is zero way I could get a hotel room, let alone a 1 BR for that price during Mardi Gras.

If you know how to use your ownership, I am a firm believer that you will come out ahead every time.

My cost is closer to $10/1k. I only have one contact for 126k points. I just looked up a 4 night stay the week before Mardi Gras at La Belle (Feb 4-8). 121k points. So that's about $1200 for me. Couldn't compare for actual Mardi Gras week as it's not available.

On VRBO I found ten 1 bedroom condos near the French Quarter on the same dates that are less than $1200. I found several very highly rated ones for under $800 (all fees included).

The value has never been there for me. And I 'know how to use it'.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I can’t find the list/tracker in the comments. Will someone post again?

Very first post of this thread has it.

 

[jp10558]

If I was to guess, someone at Wyndham has been going around and contacting these brokers selling the affected properties and making deals with them BEFORE it gets to that point.

I think the word is out on these properties that there is money to be had, and truth be known, the brokers or selling agents are now in on the scam themselves to make a quick buck.

But I better stop before someone again accuses me of being a communist or something...

I don't think this makes you sound communist, it makes you sounds conspiratorial. I sincerely doubt there's enough possible upside here to drive any wide spread collusion between brokers, or even to drive a bunch of brokers on their own to try and hoard deeds. Wyndham doesn't need any scam here, the vast majority of deeds on the resale market would happily take a free deedback from Wyndham anyway if the seller was contacted...

 

[HitchHiker71]

I'll second that. Who reads fine print (the red comments)? Perhaps that column should say Varies and the range (low-high)?

Very well - column changed to "RESORT MF (VARIES)" as requested. Descriptive verbiage in red text changed as well to fit with this change. We're not going to add a bunch of verbiage within the table itself as that makes the entire table unwieldy and it's already getting a bit long in the tooth so to speak.

 

[Twenty20]

Like everyone else - I think you may want to check how you're using your ownership. VRBO and AirB&B barely compete with hotels much of the time price wise, though you do get larger accommodations. The only "more expensive" trip I've been on was La Belle Maison that cost me ~$329 a night for a 2BR, and there was a somewhat cheaper option in AirB&B, but I also don't think AirB&B gave me bellhops to move luggage, or some of the other perks of popcorn on the way in / out and other free snacks based on day.

Maybe we just aren't able to use it properly. We like to go to Miramar Beach in the fall. A week at Majestic Sun for a 2 BR is 175k points. Close to $1700 for me.

Same dates can find many, many better options for same or significant less prices.

Can even get several units in Majestic Sun itself (actual Gulf front units, rather than the side view of the Wyndham units) for less than what my Wyndham cost would be.

 

[bizaro86]

They are also not adding any new intervals to CWA right now with Certified Exit not really taking anything back nor are do they have any new Club Wyndham properties on the horizon.

That seems like one answer to me - if they thought they were going to be short presumably they'd take the free stuff.

I think part of the motivation here is likely that they have more CWA than they can sell, so this gets rid of a bunch.

 

[paxsarah]

Maybe we just aren't able to use it properly. We like to go to Miramar Beach in the fall. A week at Majestic Sun for a 2 BR is 175k points. Close to $1700 for me.

That seems like a maintenance fee issue. 175k points is $1,094 for me.

 

[Sandi Bo]

That seems like a maintenance fee issue. 175k points is $1,094 for me.

Maybe he bought at Bentley Brook instead of Hawaii?

And back to my original thoughts - someone has to subsidize someone else -- always -- the way this point system has been developed -- and thus my feeling this whole system is built on sand. This latest closing 14 or so resorts must be somebody's brainstormed bandaid to 'encourage' owners to buy more (expensive) points and keep this ship upright?

 

[dioxide45]

Maybe he bought at Bentley Brook instead of Hawaii?

And back to my original thoughts - someone has to subsidize someone else -- always -- the way this point system has been developed -- and thus my feeling this whole system is built on sand. This latest closing 14 or so resorts must be somebody's brainstormed bandaid to 'encourage' owners to buy more (expensive) points and keep this ship upright?

The same subsidizing problem exists with weeks based ownership. Perhaps to a larger extent. Owners of high demand seasons or weeks pay the same maintenance fee as someone who owns low season. So the high season owner is theoretically getting a better deal than the low season owner. This is just how weeks based ownership, and points overlay systems work. The only true system where this doesn't exist is pure points like UDI or CWA.

 

[paxsarah]

Maybe he bought at Bentley Brook instead of Hawaii?

And back to my original thoughts - someone has to subsidize someone else -- always -- the way this point system has been developed -- and thus my feeling this whole system is built on sand. This latest closing 14 or so resorts must be somebody's brainstormed bandaid to 'encourage' owners to buy more (expensive) points and keep this ship upright?

I don't think that's the reason, but I'm sure the sales department will use it as such (as they will use pretty much any issue inside or outside of Wyndham as a hook to try to sell). There are still plenty of locations with lower points costs (though not as many in the Northeast, which sucks for northeasterners). Now, if there's a second wave of older resorts to be sold in the next few years (pure speculation on my part), it really would begin transforming the system. But for now, it's not that hard to fill into the remaining resorts.

 

[paxsarah]

The only true system where this doesn't exist is pure points like UDI or CWA.

And even with UDI and CWA, they're still competing with dozens of different maintenance fee rates in the larger system - I can use my low-MF UDI points from Oceanside to stay at Nashville, a very high-MF resort, for instance. The only type of system where this doesn't exist is something where the base maintenance fee rate is the same, like Worldmark.

 

[dioxide45]

And even with UDI and CWA, they're still competing with dozens of different maintenance fee rates in the larger system - I can use my low-MF UDI points from Oceanside to stay at Nashville, a very high-MF resort, for instance. The only type of system where this doesn't exist is something where the base maintenance fee rate is the same, like Worldmark.

I was kind of speaking more in terms of WM. Within individual resorts there is an imbalance in a weeks based resort with seasonal or fixed week setup you have low week owners subsidizing high week ownerships. That doesn't exist simply a resort that is UDI. When you add UDI to the larger system like Wyndahm, then you have the issue come back up.

If CWA stood on its own, it would work more like Worldmark.

 

[jp10558]

Maybe we just aren't able to use it properly. We like to go to Miramar Beach in the fall. A week at Majestic Sun for a 2 BR is 175k points. Close to $1700 for me.

Wow, that seems like quite high MF/pt ratio. For my slightly better than CWA cost 175k is more like $1,300. If I have my CWA estimates correct, that's only $1450 or so. I don't know if those rates are also beat with other options or not.

Same dates can find many, many better options for same or significant less prices.

Can even get several units in Majestic Sun itself (actual Gulf front units, rather than the side view of the Wyndham units) for less than what my Wyndham cost would be.

Is that on extra holidays or booking.com or the like, or redweek, or??

 

[Arimaas]

My cost is closer to $10/1k. I only have one contact for 126k points. I just looked up a 4 night stay the week before Mardi Gras at La Belle (Feb 4-8). 121k points. So that's about $1200 for me. Couldn't compare for actual Mardi Gras week as it's not available.

On VRBO I found ten 1 bedroom condos near the French Quarter on the same dates that are less than $1200. I found several very highly rated ones for under $800 (all fees included).

The value has never been there for me. And I 'know how to use it'.

To each their own. Your MFs are a reason the costs don't add up. Not sure where you own, but my fees are $2.50 + per 1K less than you. That's a big difference.

 

[paxsarah]

To each their own. Your MFs are a reason the costs don't add up. Not sure where you own, but my fees are $2.50 + per 1K less than you. That's a big difference.

Part of it is also the small ownership, so the minimum program fee also inflates the $ per k. The regular developer program fee is $.75 per k, but with 126k points paying the flat annual minimum program fee, that's $1.65 per k in program fees on top of the HOA fee.

 

[CO skier]

And back to my original thoughts - someone has to subsidize someone else -- always -- the way this point system has been developed -- and thus my feeling this whole system is built on sand. This latest closing 14 or so resorts must be somebody's brainstormed bandaid to 'encourage' owners to buy more (expensive) points and keep this ship upright?

Every resort has its own individual budget. Club Wyndham is just an exchange system.

Imagine if Wyndham delisted every resort except for the "expensive" Hawaii resorts. It would have no effect on the budget of each of the Hawaii resorts. Would the Hawaii resort maintenance fees taking a sudden, dramatic jump because they were no longer being somehow "subsidized" by the resorts that exited? Of course not.

 

[CO skier]

Okay, so you actually understand the intent of what I am saying. Replace the term "deed" with "individual interval ownerships". Of course deeds never disappear, but the ownership weeks do disappear when the resort ceases as a timeshare.

Still wrong. When Pagosa Mountain Meadows voted to terminate the timeshare plan and convert to a condo plan, every owner still owned the "individual interval ownership" (nothing changed the wording on the deed). The owners continue to own their "individual interval ownership" through the partition process. (There is no system for the owners to use their "individual interval ownership" during this process, so they are excused from paying maintenance fees. They still own their proportional voting rights in the condo plan based on their "individual interval ownership.")

Only when the owners are paid for their "individual interval ownership" following the partition lawsuit and sale of the condo complex do the owners no longer own an "individual interval ownership" in the affected resort.

 

[Twenty20]

Wow, that seems like quite high MF/pt ratio. For my slightly better than CWA cost 175k is more like $1,300. If I have my CWA estimates correct, that's only $1450 or so. I don't know if those rates are also beat with other options or not.

Is that on extra holidays or booking.com or the like, or redweek, or??

VRBO.

Majestic Sun has two buildings. One is Wyndham and has partial beach view. The building with direct beach view are all individually owned units. Both share the same amenities.

 

[Twenty20]

To each their own. Your MFs are a reason the costs don't add up. Not sure where you own, but my fees are $2.50 + per 1K less than you. That's a big difference.

FF Glade. Oak Knoll specifically.

 

[dioxide45]

Still wrong. When Pagosa Mountain Meadows voted to terminate the timeshare plan and convert to a condo plan, every owner still owned the "individual interval ownership" (nothing changed the wording on the deed). The owners continue to own their "individual interval ownership" through the partition process. (There is no system for the owners to use their "individual interval ownership" during this process, so they are excused from paying maintenance fees. They still own their proportional voting rights in the condo plan based on their "individual interval ownership.")

Only when the owners are paid for their "individual interval ownership" following the partition lawsuit and sale of the condo complex do the owners no longer own an "individual interval ownership" in the affected resort.

You seem to wordsmith everything. I went back to look at what this was actually about. It was the difference between properties that are simply dropped from Club Wyndham vs. those that are closed and shutdown/sold and no longer a timeshare (and the owners are paid out and some other company or developer owns it. I need to make sure I cover every possible detail, though I am sure there is something that I won't mention that you will point out as wrong because every possible scenario can't possibly be covered in a short social media post) as it pertains to CWA.

When a resort is closed and it is sold and owners are paid for their ownership, it seems quite simple. Owners and CWA no longer has any ownership rights.

However, when a property is in CWA and it is dropped from Club Wyndham exchange program (not closed), what happens to those deeds that the CWA trust owns? They don't, and won't, go away. Club Wyndham needs to do something with them. Technically speaking, Club Wyndham could still allow CWA owners to use ARP since the property is still a timeshare and CWA still owns the usage rights to those weeks. Since the property wouldn't be in Club Wyndham, other CW owners wouldn't be able to make reservation.

 

[jp10558]

VRBO.

Majestic Sun has two buildings. One is Wyndham and has partial beach view. The building with direct beach view are all individually owned units. Both share the same amenities.

Hmmm, I guess I don't know the dates or unit size you're considering, but I did manage to find a 2BR for $1,800.97 for a week, which is still slightly more than your cost IIRC. That was Aug 23 for a week. Most listings were for $2k or more though, so IDK how likely it'd be to find them cheaper. At least now VRBO and others include fees, so you just have to add tax!

 

[paxsarah]

Hmmm, I guess I don't know the dates or unit size you're considering, but I did manage to find a 2BR for $1,800.97 for a week, which is still slightly more than your cost IIRC. That was Aug 23 for a week. Most listings were for $2k or more though, so IDK how likely it'd be to find them cheaper. At least now VRBO and others include fees, so you just have to add tax!

I'm checking October in VRBO since they mentioned fall, and the cheapest I'm seeing for Majestic sun for a week is around $1250.

 

[HitchHiker71]

All, today I changed the status of the following three resorts in our tracking chart from PARTIAL confirmation to YES based upon official comms from the local resort managers that we have fielded from either TUG and/or FB groups over the past week or so:

Patriot's Place
Wyndham Shawnee
Skyline Tower

If anyone is aware of any other official comms from other resorts on our list - please point us toward those comms via shared links - or DM me if you'd rather not share publicly here on the thread. I will continue to update our chart as new information comes in.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You seem to wordsmith everything. I went back to look at what this was actually about. It was the difference between properties that are simply dropped from Club Wyndham vs. those that are closed and shutdown/sold and no longer a timeshare (and the owners are paid out and some other company or developer owns it. I need to make sure I cover every possible detail, though I am sure there is something that I won't mention that you will point out as wrong because every possible scenario can't possibly be covered in a short social media post) as it pertains to CWA.

When a resort is closed and it is sold and owners are paid for their ownership, it seems quite simple. Owners and CWA no longer has any ownership rights.

However, when a property is in CWA and it is dropped from Club Wyndham exchange program (not closed), what happens to those deeds that the CWA trust owns? They don't, and won't, go away. Club Wyndham needs to do something with them. Technically speaking, Club Wyndham could still allow CWA owners to use ARP since the property is still a timeshare and CWA still owns the usage rights to those weeks. Since the property wouldn't be in Club Wyndham, other CW owners wouldn't be able to make reservation.

Yes, I agree with you. The deeds still are filed in the county, owned by someone, it's real estate, not something Wyndham can just take away and give you expensive CWA points to replace it. I wouldn't take CWA at all. Something has to happen with the deed. And there should be consideration/ payment to the owner for that deed. Wyndham needs the owners' signatures on the deeds; otherwise, how are they going to sell the property?

When we as owners (of a property we own) decide to go to "Sunset" and sell each condo outright, and this is very soon, 7 years from now, each owner is entitled to 1/52 of the proceeds of that sale. The units will easily sell for $1 million. That's not chump change. As a board, we couldn't just decide willy-nilly to take the weeks away from current owners and give them nothing for the weeks and take over the resort and keep the proceeds ourselves. Each owner will get around $20K, even the blue/white week owners will get $20K. Currently, we are closing/ selling one of the units and moving owners into other units. If owners don't want to do that, and they want to walk away, sobeit. Those owners can have a percentage of the proceeds.