Wyndham is closing a handful of legacy resorts - dedicated chart/tracker located in the first post for this unfolding set of events

[geist1223]

I am sure that Wyndumb owns enough Points and/or Deeds to cover the spread.

 

[Rolltydr]

@CO skier thank you for being a voice of reason in this thread full of gloom, doom and despair!

People, there are a handful of Wyndham resorts either closing or being withdrawn in some way from Wyndham inventory. More than 90 % of the resorts are not going anywhere. You will still be able to go on vacation, you just might have to stay in a different location. If you allow yourself, you might enjoy the new surroundings. If you're concerned about your points or status, from all indications, so far, you're going to have an option on whether to convert to CWA or take a buyout, albeit, probably a small one. But, there is no crisis! I repeat, there is no crisis and no shortage of places for you to vacation. So, go somewhere and enjoy yourselves.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Do you think Wyndham is unaware of this? Or, do you think they have run the numbers with exact values available to them? The calculations are entirely straightforward.

Data and accounting isn't exactly their strong point, points appear and points just disappear. Procedures are not consistent (nor published). Might be time for us to review those posts about silos and one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

My mantra - do your homework, analyze and understand as best you can, given whatever information is at hand. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Mostly I hope that those affected directly (those who own at the affected resorts) come out of this okay. For me and my family, yes, we'll find other places to vacation. But we sure are going to miss some of those dots. We'll get over it, but overall disappointed and feel a bit cheated. Seriously - they tout (and tout and tout) that point charts will never change. But oops, who'd a thought they'd sell off or out like this (esp after major renovations at some of these places). But hey, it's timeshares, and this is one of the reasons they have the reputation they do.

 

[bizaro86]

When the affected resorts are inactivated, those deeds with their points will be removed from cwa. It's likely that Wyndham owns over 67% of the deeds in the affected resorts which will leave a deficit that has to be replaced with other deeds to back the current cwa owners.

Also they have to have addition deeds to back the cwa points being given in exchange for the member's deeds being swapped.

With the so many resorts being closed, it seems that the only way this could work if there is a huge backlog of defaults and deed backs in the works to fill the vacuum. It's difficult to conceive how all of this could result in smooth transactions in the next five months when nothing has been accomplished yet. There could likely be big delays going well into next year.

If they thought they were short I think they'd be expanding eligibility for give-backs, but I don't believe that has been happening.

I very much think this is a reaction to the opposite problem - too many people are asking to give back the older/higher fee resorts, and CWA can't sell quick enough to absorb it all. Both because of how many are coming in and because putting high fee stuff in CWA makes it less attractive.

This attacks that problem from all sides - people trading in their old Fairfield inventory for CWA uses up existing CWA inventory and Wyndham keeps the cash from the sale. CWA getting out of the old resorts they already own reduces inventory as well (or lets them replace it with new take-backs) and pulls out high fee intervals as well. And closing those resorts reduces the demand for give backs as well, as I suspect older resorts (with older owners) and high fees have higher demand for give backs.

 

[Jan M.]

If they thought they were short I think they'd be expanding eligibility for give-backs, but I don't believe that has been happening.

I very much think this is a reaction to the opposite problem - too many people are asking to give back the older/higher fee resorts, and CWA can't sell quick enough to absorb it all. Both because of how many are coming in and because putting high fee stuff in CWA makes it less attractive.

Exactly.

CWA was originally touted as having low maintenance fees. However that didn't last long and the maintenance fees rose to join the ranks of the highest.

While dropping those resorts might not see a drop in CWA maintenance fees, it might keep the CWA maintenance fees to a minimal increase for the next several years. Maybe no more that ten to fifteen cents instead of the increases it's seen in the last six years.
2019-2020 - $0.29
2020-2021- $0.33
2021-2022 - $0.32
2022-2023 - $0.31
2023-2024 - $0.43
2024-2025 - $0.48

They're left with the 13 month CWA booking window as their selling point. That 13 month booking window CWA gives is useful to some owners but how many actually keep their original 13 month reservations? I know there are some owners who infrequently, rarely, or maybe never want or need to book that far out. I'd guess that for those owners it's one of those bells and whistles things that convinces us to buy something but then we never really used that feature.

As much as I'm disappointed about several resorts we like and stay at being dropped, from a business standpoint I can see why it's being done.

As op said, it would be interesting to know how much inventory is currently in CWA from the resorts being dropped. Really interesting to compare it to the annual reports/catalogs back to 2022.

I'm postive that Wyndham has more than enough CWA points they contol/pay the maintenance fees on to be able to offer an even trade to the impacted owners who want to take their offer.

I'm wondering if this will result in seeing less of what I'd guess is mostly the Wyndham held inventory being sold on the various travel sites in the last few years. It's understandable that they would need to generate some income from all they're paying the maintenance fees on. For CWA would they have no need to to retain the typical majority interest like at the resorts to be in control because they control/manage the CWA trust?

Wyndham typically disregards or takes a it will pass and people will forget stance on the negative fallout from things they do. A move this big has the potential to make the company seem unstable to current owners and prospective buyers. It's a very smart move offer owners the option of trading for CWA points.

 

[hnybee09]

We have all resale contracts, a couple I only paid closing/transfer fees and the others I paid nothing for. One of them is at BB so when news broke I found another contract with the same number of points that someone no longer wanted for us to acquire. I’m just going with the flow, we already have CWA so I won’t take the trade. I’m just waiting to see what happens.

 

[Roger830]

If they thought they were short I think they'd be expanding eligibility for give-backs, but I don't believe that has been happening.

There have been reports on facebook of members being able to use certified exit.

There just seems to be a blanket block on fixed week resorts. I applied in Feb to give back a fixed prime week and was told that at that time that they were not taking back any fixed week deeds but I could apply with my udi deeds. I decided to wait awhile. I see now why they didn't need members giving up deeds that they were possibly planning on eliminating and losing those maintenance fees.

Also next year they could delay issuing the cwa points in the swap until they acquire the deeds. Like I stated earlier, there could be other things unknown to us that could go wrong here. I do think that eventually it should work out ok. My comments in a number of posts were questioning the wisdom of purchasing a contract for a fixed week with the hope of making a small speculative gain when Wyndham takes back the deed.

 

[CO skier]

@CO skier thank you for being a voice of reason in this thread full of gloom, doom and despair!

Well, there is a track record that goes back ten nine years, maybe more. Like the mainstream media, it is so much easier to "sell" posts of "gloom, doom and despair" on social media, and sadly, for people to believe them with zero evidence of "all the things that could go wrong here" posted from any number of Negative Nellies.

I am surprised we made it to almost 1500 posts, so far, without the perennial "class action attorneys salivating over this" posts or other such nonsense whenever Wyndham makes changes to the Club Wyndham system.

My mantra - do your homework, analyze and understand as best you can, given whatever information is at hand. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

That is exactly what I did before buying into this so-called "mess" with the purchase of a prime ski week at Bentley Brook on July 15th. It would never have occurred to me without this excellent TUG thread. We will see how it turns out

 

[CO skier]

Also next year they could delay issuing the cwa points in the swap until they acquire the deeds.

Wyndham owns soooo many deeds at CWA resorts, they transferred 150 units at CWA resorts to WorldMark within the last year. Would you like for me to post the summary?

 

[jrb916]

Wyndham owns soooo many deeds at CWA resorts, they transferred 150 units at CWA resorts to WorldMark within the last year. Would you like for me to post the summary?

Yes including showing the number of units transferred @ effected locations. Curious what will happen to those units.

 

[CO skier]

Pick your favorite, equally baseless Wyndham conspiracy theory :

Facebook saaays "Wyndham seems to be prioritizing transfers for affected properties" to control as much voting power as possible

Based on feedback and posts in some of the facebook groups, Wyndham seems to be prioritizing transfers for affected properties, especially fixed weeks owners, because, go figure, they want/need those votes and would rather get the deeds back for free rather than pay someone for them, or give them Access even.

or

TUG saaays: Wyndham does not want the voting power and, instead, did/does not want "losing those maintenance fees"

There just seems to be a blanket block on fixed week resorts. I applied in Feb to give back a fixed prime week and was told that at that time that they were not taking back any fixed week deeds but I could apply with my udi deeds. I decided to wait awhile. I see now why they didn't need members giving up deeds that they were possibly planning on eliminating and losing those maintenance fees.

 

[CO skier]

Yes including showing the number of units transferred @ effected locations. Curious what will happen to those units.

Rather than take this thread off-topic, here is a link to the TUG thread to discuss it. The list is in post #2 of the linked thread. Interesting that "Patriot's Place" is one of two resorts mentioned in the title of the thread ...

Kingsgate and Patriot’s Place inventory added to Worldmark?

Any others? I checked archive.org and the earliest capture of these Club Pass pages seems to be May of this year, about a month ago. And on the Worldmark website their pages go back as far as March. Has there been any announcement on the Worldmark side?

tugbbs.com

 

[comicbookman]

Rather than take this thread off-topic, here is a link to the TUG thread to discuss it. The list is in post #2 of the linked thread. Interesting that "Patriot's Place" is one of two resorts mentioned in the title of the thread ...

Kingsgate and Patriot’s Place inventory added to Worldmark?

Any others? I checked archive.org and the earliest capture of these Club Pass pages seems to be May of this year, about a month ago. And on the Worldmark website their pages go back as far as March. Has there been any announcement on the Worldmark side?

tugbbs.com

Newport as well.

 

[CO skier]

I am sure that Wyndumb owns enough Points and/or Deeds to cover the spread.

Well, that seems smart on their part.

 

[CO skier]

We have all resale contracts, a couple I only paid closing/transfer fees and the others I paid nothing for. One of them is at BB so when news broke I found another contract with the same number of points that someone no longer wanted for us to acquire. I’m just going with the flow, we already have CWA so I won’t take the trade. I’m just waiting to see what happens.

The "another contract with the same number of points that someone no longer wanted" has lower maintenance fees than CWA?

 

[hnybee09]

The "another contract with the same number of points that someone no longer wanted" has lower maintenance fees than CWA?

It’s deeded at Kingsgate. Definitely less than our BB contract.

 

[CO skier]

It’s deeded at Kingsgate. Definitely less than our BB contract.

Well. just one more positivity from this whole situation. Thanks for posting.

Since you will not accept a possible CWA exchange, do you plan to hang on to the BB contract until the end, or turn it in to Wyndham, if offered the opportunity?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Well, there is a track record that goes back ten nine years, maybe more. Like the mainstream media, it is so much easier to "sell" posts of "gloom, doom and despair" on social media, and sadly, for people to believe them with zero evidence of "all the things that could go wrong here" posted from any number of Negative Nellies.

I am surprised we made it to almost 1500 posts, so far, without the perennial "class action attorneys salivating over this" posts or other such nonsense whenever Wyndham makes changes to the Club Wyndham system.


That is exactly what I did before buying into this so-called "mess" with the purchase of a prime ski week at Bentley Brook on July 15th. It would never have occurred to me without this excellent TUG thread. We will see how it turns out

I don’t really see anyone in this thread promoting an incredible amount of “doom and gloom” except for Renter. Now the rest of us are somewhat realistic about how Wyndham will likely screw this up as far as the logistics of transfers/etc., but that’s realism based on past experience with T&L, not doom and gloom. I don’t see anyone, again, except for maybe Renter, indicting this is somehow going to ruin their Wyndham experience. It’s still not a positive development to be losing a dozen resorts that we could previously book into in a specific geographic area of the country though.

 

[hnybee09]

Well. just one more positivity from this whole situation. Thanks for posting.

Since you will not accept a possible CWA exchange, do you plan to hang on to the BB contract until the end, or turn it in to Wyndham, if offered the opportunity?

We are going to hang onto it until the end and see what if anything we get. "If" it turns out that BB is not on the chopping block then my BIL will take over that contract covering the fees. He has traveled with us and right before all this started was asking how/where I got our resales from. I feel bad for people who bought developer and may still have money owed on contracts at the affected resorts, as well as anyone who has reservations for those places for next year. I think for most of us with resale it is more of an inconvenience than anything else, there are always plenty of contracts out there to pick up for nothing or next to nothing. We are usually booked a year out or close to it for the most part so I wanted to make sure we didn't lose any points with all the changes. We have never been to BB but go to Busch Gardens almost yearly so a deeded contact at Kingsgate with lower mf is a win-win in my book.
It does stink losing a bunch of resorts in the northeast all at once for those who frequent the areas. We are NYers transplanted in NC and really only head as far as Long Island to visit family. Most of our travels are west, down the east coast or out to the GSMNP staying in the Pigeon Forge area. Everything is out of our control except for how we react to it and we just go with the flow.

 

[Roger830]

Wyndham owns soooo many deeds at CWA resorts, they transferred 150 units at CWA resorts to WorldMark within the last year. Would you like for me to post the summary?

I used Wydham points to stay at Worldmark Indio in April and have a reservation with Wyndham points next April at WorldMark Rancho Vistoso.

The transfer of 150 units to Worldmark is insignificant and I have no interest in the summary or continuing this discussion.

 

[Arimaas]

I don’t really see anyone in this thread promoting an incredible amount of “doom and gloom” except for Renter. Now the rest of us are somewhat realistic about how Wyndham will likely screw this up as far as the logistics of transfers/etc., but that’s realism based on past experience with T&L, not doom and gloom. I don’t see anyone, again, except for maybe Renter, indicting this is somehow going to ruin their Wyndham experience. It’s still not a positive development to be losing a dozen resorts that we could previously book into in a specific geographic area of the country though.

I can only speak For myself but I too do not see “doom and gloom”. I see people wondering what will happen with reservations, saved points, pre paid MFs, etc. And I am most upset at the lack of transparency from Wyndham as we slide into the end of Q3 2025. I’ve specifically said this won’t ruin my experience USING Wyndham, but it sure will leave a sour taste in my mouth with Wyndham corporate (you know the same company that is complicit in allowing their sales people to lie to take advantage and make sales . If lying to sell timeshares was criminal, the corporate side would be guilty of criminal facilitation).

As an aside, I pay $6 and change per 1000 points on my FG 154k converted fixed week contract, so I’m losing out here Becauee of the low fees. But understand that’s the world some times you win, sometimes you lose. Doesn’t mean I’m not upset at the reasons stated above. Far from doom and gloom.

Edited to correct a typo and add the last two sentences of the first paragraph.

 

[Marianne g]

Well, there is a track record that goes back ten nine years, maybe more. Like the mainstream media, it is so much easier to "sell" posts of "gloom, doom and despair" on social media, and sadly, for people to believe them with zero evidence of "all the things that could go wrong here" posted from any number of Negative Nellies.

I am surprised we made it to almost 1500 posts, so far, without the perennial "class action attorneys salivating over this" posts or other such nonsense whenever Wyndham makes changes to the Club Wyndham system.


That is exactly what I did before buying into this so-called "mess" with the purchase of a prime ski week at Bentley Brook on July 15th. It would never have occurred to me without this excellent TUG thread. We will see how it turns out

So just for advice as I am thinking likewise! Several weeks ago you purchased a ski week on the resale market? We ve skied BB for over 20 years and I hate to lose it! TIA

 

[HitchHiker71]

I can only speak For myself but I too do not see “doom and gloom”. I see people wondering what will happen with reservations, saved points, pre paid MFs, etc. And I am most upset at the lack of transparency from Wyndham as we slide into the end of Q3 2025. I’ve specifically said this won’t ruin my experience USING Wyndham, but it sure will leave a sour taste in my mouth with Wyndham corporate (you know the same company that is complicit in allowing their sales people to lie to take advantage and make sales . If lying to sell timeshares was criminal, the corporate side would be guilty of criminal facilitation).

As an aside, I pay $6 and change per 1000 points on my FG 154k converted fixed week contract, so I’m losing out here Becauee of the low fees. But understand that’s the world some times you win, sometimes you lose. Doesn’t mean I’m not upset at the reasons stated above. Far from doom and gloom.

Edited to correct a typo and add the last two sentences of the first paragraph.

In fairness, I think by the end of Q3 2025 we should have much more detailed guidance available since end of Q3 is almost two months from now. Between now and then I'd expect most of the HOA votes to have transpired and Wyndham should be much further along in this process. Fingers, and toes, crossed.

 

[Arimaas]

In fairness, I think by the end of Q3 2025 we should have much more detailed guidance available since end of Q3 is almost two months from now. Between now and then I'd expect most of the HOA votes to have transpired and Wyndham should be much further along in this process. Fingers, and toes, crossed.

Lets hope. Still nothing from FG HOA.

 

[susieq]

Everything is out of our control except for how we react to it and we just go with the flow.

This is how I feel. We own a floating week July/August at The Bay Voyage ~ not much we can do except sit back and watch how things play out. By the way ~ this is fully paid for, we've had 30 years of fantastic vacations, great exchanges, (only stayed at BV a handful of times), no regrets. In it for the duration, see what we're offered.