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WSJ do egress rules not apply on the island

SMHarman

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OK so here is the way I presented it to Westin Mgmt on site.

Here are some pictures of the room, @LisaRex it does have a built in closet. These three images capture the whole room so you can see no window. You can also as Dave notes see the sprinkler covers.

bd6b824c9b0d51bd80a91ecfeb54c8e3.jpg


053cb5a9d6d2b1815e59fd8367c6be3b.jpg


5e7e5ec72fa4023ed20caa586d865527.jpg


Here is where things get interesting. The installed the smoke detector in the path of the HVAC vent. In the event of fire, the smoke would not accumulate at the smoke detector and new air from the HVAC plant would be blown across the detector, likely delaying activation of the detector. This would be a fail under CA or NY building code.

7fc3d92a3a3f20a5fa22a38e581ae7fe.jpg


Next up, on the left here you see the No 4 cause of household fires, the dryer directly in the only egress from this 'bedroom'

http://www.propertycasualty360.com/...-most-common-f?page_all=1&slreturn=1455251959

f008cec5caeed4b655730355e833d13a.jpg


Here you would usually turn right to safety but find a wall.

cc7c626286d0df449a3a305b52599ce5.jpg


Then you turn the corner to see the No 8 cause of household fires, the kitchen. Luckily we did not have a Christmas Tree with fairy lights set up in the wasted space where the exit would be on other floors.

a9316177fdf56564bc2d101e4df0bac4.jpg


Then you finally reach safety.

I'm looking forward to the response from Westin and will be putting this lot together in an email to them so they can see the situation in pictures as well as the telephone conversation.
 
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SMHarman

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What is that empty area show in the image second from the bottom?
The high chair storage? On higher floors the Front door to the Unit is there. Oh, and there is a window between the beds in the back bedroom.
 

SMHarman

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Thanks. It seems kind of odd and wasted space from your picture.
It is a huge wasted space in a two bed that is already only 963 sq ft and 75% of space is bedroom, bathroom or wasted.

Put a door on it. Add a twin bed and call it a dubiously legal (no window / no second egress) kids bedroom.

For clarity these two floorplans should help.

The one with green arrows shows the upper floors which have a window and use that space for a lobby.

e9be4fe93ab86a50999653a63771a2e4.jpg


The second image shows the ground floor with the missing door and window.

65cde6f0ed91d21fc563f713527086af.jpg
 
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canesfan

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There's a lot of wasted space in the Bay Vista floor plans IMO. We stayed in a 3 BR before we bought. It had. That weird wasted hallway too. We stored our scuba gear there.
The 2 BR loft has a big area at the top of the steps that is a waste of space too. It could almost have another sleeper sofa there.
 

DavidnRobin

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I hear the same this same thing about wasted space for the foyer/hallway OFD at WKORV. What some people consider wasted space - others call it storage.
 

alexadeparis

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It is a huge wasted space in a two bed that is already only 963 sq ft and 75% of space is bedroom, bathroom or wasted.

Put a door on it. Add a twin bed and call it a dubiously legal (no window / no second egress) kids bedroom.

For clarity these two floorplans should help.

The one with green arrows shows the upper floors which have a window and use that space for a lobby.

e9be4fe93ab86a50999653a63771a2e4.jpg


The second image shows the ground floor with the missing door and window.

65cde6f0ed91d21fc563f713527086af.jpg

So for the ground floor units you enter through the balcony!?!? Wtf.
 

DavidnRobin

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Factoid (not sure where #8 cause comes from) - by far fires from cooking and cooking equipment are the most common cause (NFPA.org)
Two of every five (43%) reported home structure fires started in the kitchen. Two out of five home (39%) civilian fire injuries were caused by these incidents.
In addition, 16% of home fire deaths resulted from kitchen fires

Hope you made it to:
Little Lameshur
Miss Lucy's
Salt Pond
Ram Head
Angels Rest
Haulover
Frances
Maho
Salomon/Honeymoon
Hawksnest
Trunk
Jumbie
Cinnamon
 
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alexadeparis

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What a horrible design! It this the Coral Vista phase? Was this the way it was when those were hotel rooms, too? I hope not to get one of those rooms.
 

SMHarman

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Factoid (not sure where #8 cause comes from) - by far fires from cooking and cooking equipment are the most common cause (NFPA.org)
Two of every five (43%) reported home structure fires started in the kitchen. Two out of five home (39%) civilian fire injuries were caused by these incidents.
In addition, 16% of home fire deaths resulted from kitchen fires
The link I posted listed causes in order of commonality as

1. Candles
2. Smoking
3. Electrical
4. Dryers and washing machine
5. Lightning
6. Children and matches / lighters
7. Christmas trees (a sub set of 3 really)
8. Kitchen

I'll get back to you on the list when I look at a map. I know we skipped a few due to schlepping the 22 mo there but hit a the north shore, east end and coral bay.
 

DavidnRobin

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The link I posted listed causes in order of commonality as

1. Candles
2. Smoking
3. Electrical
4. Dryers and washing machine
5. Lightning
6. Children and matches / lighters
7. Christmas trees (a sub set of 3 really)
8. Kitchen

I'll get back to you on the list when I look at a map. I know we skipped a few due to schlepping the 22 mo there but hit a the north shore, east end and coral bay.

Refer to NFPA.org (stats for 2009-2013)
 

SMHarman

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Yours is a better source. I'm just reiterating what my source has as the list.
 

SMHarman

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Hope you made it to:
Little Lameshur
Miss Lucy's
Salt Pond
Ram Head
Angels Rest
Haulover
Frances
Maho
Salomon/Honeymoon
Hawksnest
Trunk
Jumbie
Cinnamon

Little Lameshur
Did not make it to south side

Miss Lucy's


Salt Pond
Did not make it to south side

Ram Head
Long hike. No chance with 22 mo.

Angels Rest
?

Haulover
f8be45fd97ccf71a18ea5c49026bc990.jpg


Frances
No

Maho
Twice. Great to the right (facing ocean) but not much beach with the north swell.


Salomon/Honeymoon
Didn't do the hike. Collapsed on the Caneel Bay Beach and had lime in the coconuts brought to us. Good snorkeling here though north swell reduced visibility.
27d1c370ef3113e9cbe930707ee38fa7.jpg

Hawksnest
Drove past this on way to others.

Trunk
Yep
224162817ffc3a875999c96a9ba758db.jpg


Jumbie
Hike

Cinnamon
Yep. Great beach.
 
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SMHarman

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You sound somewhat disappointed with WSJ?

That's because he is not staying in a Hillside Villa... :D
With the construction, the dangerous/crappy room layout (coral) or the shuttling to the resort (hillside), the poor man made beach at the hotel, inconsistent staff and more I was underwhelmed with WSJ.

My drink bill and more bills are also inflated by 15% as I did not get my owner discount card until the 6 day's after arrival. Yes I could have gone to concierge and got it earlier but I forgot it existed.

The island is very pretty but I also think that as a family we would get more out of it in a few years when the youngest is more mobile. You need to get out and about on the island every day and hike to some places, different to other resorts, even Caneel Bay where so much is walking distance.

I should also be doing a better job in this thread about keeping this focused on the poor fire and life safety design of the ground floor coral vista 2 beds.
 
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GrayFal

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So for the ground floor units you enter through the balcony!?!? Wtf.

What a horrible design! It this the Coral Vista phase? Was this the way it was when those were hotel rooms, too? I hope not to get one of those rooms.

I know that OP has concerns about fire safety ( which I agree is something go be addressed) but the first floor units are actually nice as you can access your unit without dealing with elevators and shared hallways. With a child in a stroller it certainly makes it easier plus you get additional outdoor space as you have a patio instead of a limited balcony.
As others have stated, the BV phase also has units without windows in some of the bedrooms.
When you are dealing with a hotel conversion there are limitations to what can be done in the footprint.

That said, I have have toured this ground floor unit plus the loft units and studio units in the CV. They are very very nice (again dealing with the space limitations) and I am looking forward to my first stay in CV this year.

I also own in the Hillside and both areas of the resort have a different feel, I am lucky to be able to enjoy both.

YMMV
 

SMHarman

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As others have stated, the BV phase also has units without windows in some of the bedrooms.
Do you know which unit numbers? Others have mentioned this.
When you are dealing with a hotel conversion there are limitations to what can be done in the footprint.
Within the bounds of fire and life safety.
And why is putting windows in this wall a limitation? Cost?
00557eac55591dcf91db19bc5876f624.jpg

That said, I have have toured this ground floor unit plus the loft units and studio units in the CV. They are very very nice (again dealing with the space limitations) and I am looking forward to my first stay in CV this year.
Be interested to hear your feedback after your stay. They are pretty to look at but annoying to live in. Especially if you cook, and with food allergies we cook a lot.
I also own in the Hillside and both areas of the resort have a different feel, I am lucky to be able to enjoy both.

YMMV
I think David's use example is a good one here. A consistent condo rental to explore the island.
[The] first floor units are actually nice as you can access your unit without dealing with elevators and shared hallways. With a child in a stroller it certainly makes it easier plus you get additional outdoor space as you have a patio instead of a limited balcony.
The contrarian view is that you now have to maneuver the stroller through the limited living and kitchen space to the parking in the lobby without a door (and the coffee table makes that awkward) and leaving the door open leads to am uncontained space for your 22mo to wander of into.

In an upper unit one of our group could be sitting on the balcony and reading with kids wandering on and of. At ground level they needed to shepherd then back to the room as they wanted to explore up the stairs to BV. The landscaping up there is very pretty.
 
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LisaRex

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I wonder if the lack of windows has anything to do with hurricane/tropical storm/mudslide damage mitigation or even earthquake tolerance.

As far as wasted space goes, have you ever been in a WKORV deluxe room? There are two long hallways (4' x 7'?) and a common vestibule (5' x 5'?) that is shared between the two sides of the lockoff. These owners have to pay for this extra square footage, too, which is largely unusable. You couldn't even put a cot in the area unless you want to block egress.





 
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SMHarman

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I wonder if the lack of windows has anything to do with hurricane/tropical storm/mudslide damage mitigation or even earthquake tolerance.
I thought about this. Personally I think no Windows were there when they were hotel rooms (not needed in bathrooms) and they sstayed that way.

As far as wasted space goes, have you ever been in a WKORV deluxe room? There are two long hallways (4' x 7'?) and a common vestibule (5' x 5'?) that is shared between the two sides of the lockoff. These owners have to pay for this extra square footage, too, which is largely unusable. You couldn't even put a cot in the area unless you want to block egress.
I have not been to HI yet. 11+ hours with a very active <2yo sounds like a special place in hell.
 

GrayFal

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Do you know which unit numbers? Others have mentioned this.

NO, AS SAID OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED, NOT ME
Within the bounds of fire and life safety.
And why is putting windows in this wall a limitation? Cost?
00557eac55591dcf91db19bc5876f624.jpg

MY COMMENT WAS IN REGARDS TO THE DESIGN IN A LIMITED SPACE OF HOTEL CONVERSION, NOT THE EGRESS ISSUE WHICH I ADDRESSED AND AGREED WITH YOU.
Be interested to hear your feedback after your stay. They are pretty to look at but annoying to live in. Especially if you cook, and with food allergies we cook a lot.
I WILL LET YOU KNOW. WE DO LIMITED COOKING.
I think David's use example is a good one here. A consistent condo rental to explore the island.
NOT MY CHOICE, I PREFER THE RESORT AMENITIES
The contrarian view is that you now have to maneuver the stroller through the limited living and kitchen space to the parking in the lobby without a door (and the coffee table makes that awkward) and leaving the door open leads to am uncontained space for your 22mo to wander of into.
YES, THAT IS CONTRARY :cool:
In an upper unit one of our group could be sitting on the balcony and reading with kids wandering on and of. At ground level they needed to shepherd then back to the room as they wanted to explore up the stairs to BV. The landscaping up there is very pretty

AS ARE THE WATER VIEWS, I HAVE BOOKED THE TWO BEDROOM LOFT FOR MY STAY.

Edit. Answers above in CAPS

I am sorry your stay has been so difficult and unpleasant as we really enjoy the island and the resort. It is definitely not for everyone and you report that there are many challenges traveling with a toddler - strollers, highchairs, cribs, diapers. Hoping in the future it gets easier for you. :hi:
 

SMHarman

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I am sorry your stay has been so difficult and unpleasant as we really enjoy the island and the resort. It is definitely not for everyone and you report that there are many challenges traveling with a toddler - strollers, highchairs, cribs, diapers. Hoping in the future it gets easier for you. :hi:
Difficult and unpleasant would be putting words in my mouth.

The 22mo is my third. I'm used travelling with little ones. Highchair and crib provided by Westin were great. Stroller is one purposely owned for travelling / subways so not a hardship to carry. Diapers get checked and the empty bag gets put in another on the return. Just like the food bags. Carribian is easy with luggage most all airports have good porter options. The domestic kerb check to porter to westin ferry made schlepping paraphernalia simple.

We enjoyed the island. Compared to other units we have stayed in and other destinations organization this one is lacking. Why does one bill have the SPG number on it and the other not. Why does one have all adult guests on it and the other not. When the room keys failed I could not get new keys. I know the details were in the SVN bookings. I made them. Why did concierge not reach out until Friday (we arrived Saturday)

Friends who flew from the west coast to join us and sleep in a windowless box.

Finally, there is my unanswered fire and life safety question.
 
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GrayFal

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Difficult and unpleasant would be putting words in my mouth.

Finally, there is my unanswered fire and life safety question.

I will retract those words then but please go back and read your posts. You are making statements of dissatisfaction. Others have also commented that you seem unhappy with your stay.

And my original post that you chose to pick apart was directed at and I quoted alexdeparis post, not yours AND in that post, I stated I agreed with your concerns about fire and safety but you seemed to have ignored that.

Try and have a good day.
 
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