Would you keep your membership in RCI if they did not Rent?

[Walt]

Check Out Post to Ask RCI

Mike,

The same can be applied to RCI's fees. If someone owns only 1 week, RCI charges them $89 for the membership fee and $149 for an exchange. That adds $238 to the cost of ownership for the year. If your maintenance fee is $600, then that's a 40% surcharge. Highway robbery for an equal trade.

Look at the alternatives. First, the owner can rent their week for between $0-20 fee on an advertising site and then rent something in return.

They can belong to a point system that doesn't charge a reservation fee. Those that do charge around $35-50. RCI's fee of $238 is ridiculously high.

It ONLY makes sense to stay with RCI if you are able to get HUGE trade ups. Otherwise, stop paying them annual fees and stop depositing your weeks because there are much better venues for your intervals.

I would like to point out my post to Madge about Snap Travel using OUR (RCI’s) VCs as travel agents for Snap Travel. It appears that we are paying (Yearly Fees and Exchange Fees) for the cost of Operation of Snap Travel.

As you know Madge said that Snap Travel is an Outside Vendor.

Walt


http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18760

 

[Babs from UK]

Rentals

I love BocaBum's idea.

So, we take the weekly maintenance charge for our resort, knock off the cost of belonging to RCI plus the one week exchange fee.

Advertise the rental on a special site (TUG?) for the difference in cost.

Hopefully we can then pick up a cheap rental on the same site (optimistic aren't I?!)

Advantages: Renting at less than RCI will charge to non-timeshare owners (hopefully)

Taking our hard-earned villas out of the RCI rental pool - sorry, exchange/points system.

Hmmmm..........

 

[BocaBum99]

I love BocaBum's idea.

So, we take the weekly maintenance charge for our resort, knock off the cost of belonging to RCI plus the one week exchange fee.

Advertise the rental on a special site (TUG?) for the difference in cost.

Hopefully we can then pick up a cheap rental on the same site (optimistic aren't I?!)

Advantages: Renting at less than RCI will charge to non-timeshare owners (hopefully)

Taking our hard-earned villas out of the RCI rental pool - sorry, exchange/points system.

Hmmmm..........

Babs,

It's easier than you might think to do. I just did what you said and got a nice 2 bedroom OceanFRONT unit at the Marriott Ocean Pointe resort for a platinum Holiday week. Try getting one of those from an exchange company.

 

[JLB]

Most here know that I am not a strong proponet of the Cendant RCI business model, the open-timeshare model, as opposed to the DeHaan Model.

Most here also know that no one else here, or likely anywhere, has studied and documented a specific area for a specific timeframe as long or as thoroughly as I have. My study goes back to the advent of on-line transactions via RCI.com, 1997 I believe.

Nothing I have done, either externally or from within RCI, has been able to establish a link between RCI's business model and the disappearance of availability of prime resorts in prime months. It just so happens that what I used to see and no longer can occurred during the timeframe when RCI has focused on, in fact highlighted, their rental programs.

More power to anyone who can establish the connection.

 

[BocaBum99]

Most here know that I am not a strong proponet of the Cendant RCI business model, the open-timeshare model, as opposed to the DeHaan Model.

Most here also know that no one else here, or likely anywhere, has studied and documented a specific area for a specific timeframe as long or as thoroughly as I have. My study goes back to the advent of on-line transactions via RCI.com, 1997 I believe.

Nothing I have done, either externally or from within RCI, has been able to establish a link between RCI's business model and the disappearance of availability of prime resorts in prime months. It just so happens that what I used to see and no longer can occurred during the timeframe when RCI has focused on, in fact highlighted, their rental programs.

More power to anyone who can establish the connection.

It could be just the opposite. It could be that prime week owners just got tired of trading down in RCI, so they started depositing less and started using or renting instead. RCI then figured that that was the way the market was going and decided to follow the trend.

It's obvious to me that the DeHaan model was flawed from the start and timesharing weeks exchangers benefited for over 30 years of trade ups at the expense of prime week owners taking the trade downs. It took them a while, but they figured out that that was a bad idea and either moved to point alternatives, personal usage, rentals or just simply left timesharing completely to better meet their needs.

 

[JLB]

[Edited to delete message that violates BBS posting rules. Dave M, BBS Administrator]

 

[michaelsmalley]

5 weeks for 1

I agree completely with Boca. So true. Value for money is what people want, whether they are paying $10, $100, $1000 or $10 000. If people feel like they are getting their money's worth, they don't mind paying.

I agree with Boca. IF you are using your TS and not exchanging it or if you want to exchange 1 week for 1 week his comments make great sense. In my case I will probably never use or go to the TS I own. I use the points it generates to exchange for other places and almost always go for the 45 day window. That fits my travel needs better and I end up with 4 or 5 weeks of vacation a year for my 1 week TS. When I take my MF, the RCI membership, and the exchange fees and divide by 5 it makes the cost very attractive from a use standpoint. RCI has a large selection for me to choose from and I have had very little trouble going where and when I want to, even on short notice. Perhaps there are other exchange companies out there that have a large selection of last minute exchanges but if so, I haven't found them. I am in the process of buying another TS (resale) to be used for PFD. I will probably never visit there. When I can purchase an inexpensive 3 br Lockoff for less than $1,000, with a MF of around $500 and get 91,600 points by using PFD the RCI charge of $29.95 doesn't bother me one bit when I spread it out over 6. 8. or even 10 weeks of usage. There is no way I can rent 5 weeks of condos for anywhere near what I am paying for my current TS that generates about 40,000 points, even after I add in all the RCI fees. Each week averages out far less than I would pay in a Motel 6.

Yes exchange fees are important. However, if you think they are too high why cut off your nose to spite your face by dropping out of any system. Instead figure out how to maximize your dollars and make the system work for you. Has anyone out there actually cancelled their vacation plans because of a $189.00 exchange fee. If I was going to cancel a vacation because of $189.00, I probably couldn't afford the vacation in the first place and shouldn't be going.

Mike S.

 

[Walt]

As Long as the Resorts keep Doing A Bulk Spacebank It Doesn't Matter

It could be just the opposite. It could be that prime week owners just got tired of trading down in RCI, so they started depositing less and started using or renting instead. RCI then figured that that was the way the market was going and decided to follow the trend.

As long as the resorts keep doing a Bulk Spacebank they don't need us for their Rental Programs.

There are many Prime weeks to rent in Hawaii because of the Bulk Spacebanking done by the Embassy Maui, the Embassy Kauai, all of the Pahio group, Mauna Loa Village and others. This appears to be true in other area too.

Walt

 

[CaliDave]

I use the points it generates to exchange for other places and almost always go for the 45 day window. That fits my travel needs better and I end up with 4 or 5 weeks of vacation a year for my 1 week TS.

Many timeshare owners cannot travel like this.
We have to travel during school holiday's. We need 2bd units for the family.
Plane reservations cannot be made last minute.

If we dont fly.. and we drive to our favortite So Cal coastal locations for summer. You arent going to find anything in the 45 day window.

Many people need to ask for time off work , months in advance.

If you are retired and you have no commitments hold you back. You have the perfect system. For the rest of us, it doesn't work.

 

[michaelsmalley]

Lot of kids

Many timeshare owners cannot travel like this.
We have to travel during school holiday's. We need 2bd units for the family.
Plane reservations cannot be made last minute.

If we dont fly.. and we drive to our favortite So Cal coastal locations for summer. You arent going to find anything in the 45 day window.

Many people need to ask for time off work , months in advance.

If you are retired and you have no commitments hold you back. You have the perfect system. For the rest of us, it doesn't work.

My wife and I are only semi retired (we own our own business) but we have 3 grown kids and 2 or 3 retired couples that we are good friends with. So far it has worked out great. They all watch the 45 day window and if they want to go, they pay the exchange fee and go. That is the kids SOMETIMES pay the fee but you know how that is if you have kids. The old "Pay ya later routine" but who cares. I realize our system won't work for everybody but it works great for us. Wife and I usually go 2 or 3 times a year and our 'private travel club' use the rest.

I'm not putting down anyone who has problems with RCI. I'm just saying that for us and our situtation, RCI has done a wonderful job. It's been a lot of fun for a lot of people at very little cost.

Mike S.

 

[Sydney]

Michael, I'm glad that RCI is working out for you & your wife. I wished it works out for my family, but it's not. So I've decided to just stop throwing more money away in exchange for more frustrations and unpleasant experiences. I don't feel I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

In line with Boca's suggestion of renting out your own units. We did just that to pay for our week in Paris last year. No way could we get a comfortable 2 br for 6 people through any exchange company. We rented through VRBO which is the way to go when a timeshare just willl not work.

 

[BocaBum99]

[Edited to delete message that violates BBS posting rules. Dave M, BBS Administrator]

 

[Swarthog]

I'm not sure what I'm going to do in 2009 when my RCi membership expires. I have 3 SA weeks and in the past they have been great values. Even if I never get another trade it was money well spent. Unfortunately with rising RCI fees, higher levies, the weaker dollar, and less trade power the viabilty of exchanging is diminishing. To stay in RCI with just a single week doesn't seem prudent anymore. When I could get an instant exchange for 3,000 Worldmark Points it was good, but at 4,000 not so good. It really appears that for the most part buying only where you plan to go (or in a multi resort system) is the way to go.

 

[artmanr]

THIS THREAD IS VERY INTERESTING:

However, I'm not sure I follow everything. I gather others do not as well. You all have an adanced knowledge of the workings of RCI and the various resorts. It would be great is someone could condense this into one document and have a sticky posted on the bbs somewhere. That being said...

Here is my list of complaints with RCI...

1. RCI is too expensive for the service it provides.
2. The website is poorly designed, slow and quirky.
3. There seems to be too little inventory available.
4. Reviews of resorts are stale and not helpful in making decisions
5. Resort information is not complete enough, not enough pictures, etc.

From what I read here, it appears that the reasons for the lack of inventory are:

1. Bulk space banked weeks (not sure what that means)
2. Owners of Prime Red weeks choosing not to deposit/partake in RCI.
3. A possible conspiracy amongst t/s resorts and RCI...

Is there a place where RCI posts the actual terms of service/contract with that controls the relationship with members? If so, are they breaching that contract. It would be very interesting to know what they promise and what they actually provide OR are they committing a conflict of interest by serving two masters...Members/Owners and the Resorts. Hmmm...

AR

 

[Dave M]

You all have an advanced knowledge of the workings of RCI.... It would be great if someone could condense this into one document and have a sticky posted on the bbs somewhere.

See the FAQs sticky thread at the top of the list of topics for the Ask RCI forum.

 

[Dave M]

Is there a place where RCI posts the actual terms of service/contract with that controls the relationship with members? If so, are they breaching that contract. It would be very interesting to know what they promise and what they actually provide OR are they committing a conflict of interest by serving two masters...Members/Owners and the Resorts. Hmmm...

See the link for "Membership Terms and Conditions" at the bottom of many RCI website pages. Among other things, that document essentially gives RCI the right to do anything it wants with a week that a member deposits.

 

[taffy19]

I have 2 questions.

Why have you or why will you be dropping your membership in RCI?

Would you drop your membership in RCI if they were only renting weeks in the 45 day window?

Walt

Walt, the reason we are not renewing is that RCI doesn't have request first. We want to know what we can get for our week. II has this feature. Emmy

 

[Dani]

From what I read here, it appears that the reasons for the lack of inventory are:

1. Bulk space banked weeks (not sure what that means)
2. Owners of Prime Red weeks choosing not to deposit/partake in RCI.
3. A possible conspiracy amongst t/s resorts and RCI...

AR

What should be understood is that the reason why some claim a "lack of inventory" is because they do not have the required trade power to see the majority of the weeks in the space-bank. I could search RCI right now and pick up nearly a hundered or more units in Hawaii on-line. Similarly, I could search II right now and see exactly 2 or 3 weeks on-line...6 if I'm lucky. Interestingly, few seem to care to investigate why that is and even fewer state the reasons listed above as the cause of this lack of inventory in II. There is a perpetual double standard when it comes to RCI and II.

BTW...I have no idea why bulk-spacebanking would have anything to do with the lack of inventory.

 

[huestous]

Interestingly, few seem to care to investigate why that is and even fewer state the reasons listed above as the cause of this lack of inventory in II.

When anecdotal data fits a preconceived idea, why look for more data?

 

[Walt]

Lets do Trade Test

What should be understood is that the reason why some claim a "lack of inventory" is because they do not have the required trade power to see the majority of the weeks in the space-bank. I could search RCI right now and pick up nearly a hundered or more units in Hawaii on-line. Similarly, I could search II right now and see exactly 2 or 3 weeks on-line...6 if I'm lucky. Interestingly, few seem to care to investigate why that is and even fewer state the reasons listed above as the cause of this lack of inventory in II. There is a perpetual double standard when it comes to RCI and II.

BTW...I have no idea why bulk-spacebanking would have anything to do with the lack of inventory.

Hi Dani,

What you say might be true about you searching Hawaii on line and picking up nearly 100 or more units with RCI. I know this is true with what is available for RCI's Rentals.

How about doing a Trade Test for RCI to see? Do 3 ten week searches. Do one for September and October, 2006. Another one for Nov. and Dec., 2006.. And another one for Jan. and Feb., 2007.

We really only need 3 Tuggers to do the Test. One with a Low trade week. One with a Medium Trade week. (I have one that has traded into the Embassys and the Pahio at the Shearwater but I believe is a medium week that is spacebanked 2 years out) I will do the medium week. And we need some one with the Highest or Top Trader. Other are Welcome.

So what do you say? Anyone willing to prove it? I am open any week night next week.


we could also do the same for II if you would like. I have a low trader for that one.

Walt

 

[Walt]

Here Is what I see today.

This Is What I See!!


Sept. and Oct., 2006

The following 3 Resorts have availability during your requested time frame.

Click on the resort name for detailed resort information.



Resort Name Resort ID Location Max Occ Check-in Date Range
PAHIO at Ka'Eo Kai

See Reviews 1376 Princeville, HI, USA 6/2 09/07/2006 - 10/22/2006
PAHIO at Kauai Beach Villas

See Reviews 3681 Lihue, HI, USA 4/4 09/28/2006 - 09/28/2006
Lawai Beach Resort

See Reviews 5080 Koloa, HI, USA 6/4 10/06/2006 - 10/20/2006

Nov. and Dec., 2006

The following 6 Resorts have availability during your requested time frame.

Click on the resort name for detailed resort information.


Resort Name Resort ID Location Max Occ Check-in Date Range
Banyan Harbor

See Reviews 0266 Lihue, HI, USA 6/4 12/15/2006 - 12/15/2006
PAHIO at Ka'Eo Kai

See Reviews 1376 Princeville, HI, USA 2/2 11/12/2006 - 11/12/2006
Kahana Falls

See Reviews 2788 Lahaina, HI, USA 2/2 11/11/2006 - 11/11/2006
Embassy Vacation Resort Poipu Po

See Reviews 3682 Koloa, HI, USA 6/6 12/12/2006 - 12/12/2006
Lawai Beach Resort

See Reviews 5080 Koloa, HI, USA 4/4 11/03/2006 - 11/03/2006
Shell Vacations Club at Paniolo

See Reviews 6092 Waikoloa, HI, USA 6/6 11/04/2006 - 11/04/2006

Jan. and Feb., 2007

The following 9 Resorts have availability during your requested time frame.

Click on the resort name for detailed resort information.



Resort Name Resort ID Location Max Occ Check-in Date Range
Celebrity Resorts Waikiki

See Reviews 0245 Honolulu, HI, USA 4/2 01/28/2007 - 01/28/2007
The Makai Club at Princeville

See Reviews 1254 Princeville, HI, USA 4/4 01/05/2007 - 02/23/2007
PAHIO at Ka'Eo Kai

See Reviews 1376 Princeville, HI, USA 6/2 02/01/2007 - 02/24/2007
The Makai Club Cottages

1580 Princeville, HI, USA 6/4 02/04/2007 - 02/25/2007
Pono Kai Resort

See Reviews 2491 Kapaa, HI, USA 4/4 02/03/2007 - 02/03/2007
PAHIO at the Shearwater

See Reviews 2638 Princeville, HI, USA 6/6 02/08/2007 - 02/08/2007
Kahana Falls

See Reviews 2788 Lahaina, HI, USA 2/2 01/12/2007 - 01/12/2007
PAHIO at Bali Hai Villas

See Reviews 3031 Princeville, HI, USA 4/4 02/11/2007 - 02/23/2007
PAHIO at Kauai Beach Villas

See Reviews 3681 Lihue, HI, USA 4/4 02/01/2007 - 02/01/2007

Walt

 

[Walt]

Here Are The RCI Rentals for Dec. 2006

Here are the rentals for Dec. 2006


1) Maui Sunset

See Reviews 0192 Kihei, HI, USA 4/4 12/03/2006 - 12/03/2006 $1,120.99

2) Lifetime in Hawaii

See Reviews 1138 Honolulu, HI, USA 4/2 12/02/2006 - 12/09/2006 $1,009.99

3) PAHIO at Ka'Eo Kai

See Reviews 1376 Princeville, HI, USA 6/2 12/01/2006 - 01/07/2007 $1,009.99

4) Alii Kai Resort

See Reviews 2201 Princeville, HI, USA 6/6 12/02/2006 - 12/30/2006 $1,159.99

5) Pono Kai Resort

See Reviews 2491 Kapaa, HI, USA 4/4 12/02/2006 - 12/23/2006 $1,119.99

6) Imperial Hawaii Vacation Club

See Reviews 2605 Honolulu, HI, USA 4/2 12/06/2006 - 01/03/2007 $1,009.99

7) PAHIO at Bali Hai Villas

See Reviews 3031 Princeville, HI, USA 6/4 12/03/2006 - 01/05/2007 $1,119.99

8) PAHIO at Kauai Beach Villas

See Reviews 3681 Lihue, HI, USA 6/4 12/02/2006 - 01/07/2007 $1,119.99

9) Embassy Vacation Resort Poipu Po

See Reviews 3682 Koloa, HI, USA 6/6 12/01/2006 - 12/18/2006 $1,159.99

10) Paniolo Greens

See Reviews 3977 Waikoloa, HI, USA 6/6 12/02/2006 - 01/06/2007 $1,159.99

11) Mauna Loa Village by the Sea

See Reviews 4908 Kailua-Kona, HI, USA 6/4 12/01/2006 - 12/08/2006 $1,177.99

12) Embassy Vacation Resort at Kaana

See Reviews 4985 Lahaina, HI, USA 4/4 12/01/2006 - 01/06/2007 $1,119.99

13) Fairfield Hawaii at Kona Hawaiia

See Reviews 5971 Kailua-Kona, HI, USA 6/4 12/01/2006 - 12/08/2006 $1,994.99

14) Aston Waikiki Beach Hotel - Holi

8496 Honolulu, HI, USA 4/2 12/02/2006 - 12/23/2006 $1,430.99

15) Aston Kaanapali Shores - Holiday

8497 Lahaina, HI, USA 7/2 12/02/2006 - 12/23/2006 $1,097.99

16) Aston Waikiki Sunset - Holiday N

8499 Honolulu, HI, USA 5/4 12/02/2006 - 12/23/2006 $1,124.99

17) Maui Kaanapali Villas - Holiday

8503 Lahaina, HI, USA 4/2 12/02/2006 - 12/09/2006 $1,016.99

Walt

PS. I would like to point out 3 things.

1) It has been said that Hawaii is the Hardest Exchange. Could it be because of Rentals?

2) There are resorts on this list that I never see on my searches. And I search Hawaii a lot.

3) As I understand it, the Embassy Maui and Kauai, both, bulk spacebank 12 months out. The weeks from 6 months out to 12 months is the time period that is open for Embassy owners only to exchange. Embassy weeks should not be available for exchanges to anyone else. I would also assume this should mean for rentals too. Otherwise, what is the purpose of the owner's perk. All the weeks could be rented out before an owner can exchange for a week.

 

[Dani]

Hi Dani,

What you say might be true about you searching Hawaii on line and picking up nearly 100 or more units with RCI. I know this is true with what is available for RCI's Rentals.

How about doing a Trade Test for RCI to see? Do 3 ten week searches. Do one for September and October, 2006. Another one for Nov. and Dec., 2006.. And another one for Jan. and Feb., 2007.

We really only need 3 Tuggers to do the Test. One with a Low trade week. One with a Medium Trade week. (I have one that has traded into the Embassys and the Pahio at the Shearwater but I believe is a medium week that is spacebanked 2 years out) I will do the medium week. And we need some one with the Highest or Top Trader. Other are Welcome.

So what do you say? Anyone willing to prove it? I am open any week night next week.


we could also do the same for II if you would like. I have a low trader for that one.

Walt

Walt,

I'm not sure it's necessary to conduct a trade test to prove the point. Anyone with a strong trader within RCI can see that this is the case. Any way you look at it, II pales in comparison to RCI if one is using what one can see on-line to show a purported lack of available inventory. When I cheked II last night, there were exactly ZERO weeks in Hawaii on-line in II. ZERO. This morning....there is one week on-line in Hawaii in II.

Don't get me wrong, I am very, very happy with II. I think that they are a wonderful exchange company. The fact that they have fewer weeks on-line that RCI has absolutely nothing to do with my ability to pick up great trades with II. Also, there are many reasons why this is the case within II, none of which have IMHO anything to do with a conspiracy or the rental of space-banked weeks. I was just making a point.

 

[Walt]

I would really Like a strong RCI trader out there to look at these months!!

Walt,

I'm not sure it's necessary to conduct a trade test to prove the point. Anyone with a strong trader within RCI can see that this is the case.

Hi Dani,

It sure would nice for the rest of us to see what a Strong RCI Trader will pick up. Anyone willing to do so? It only takes a few minutes.

I think I give proof that RCI has more weeks available than II in Hawaii during this time period.

Walt

 

[short]

Weeks trading

Walt,
This is a flaw in the weeks theory of trading. Everyone agrees that in the weeks system there must be a system of equal for equal. So trading power and VEP create a little group weeks that my week is eligable to trade into. If a week has to high a quality or to high of trading power I will never see it. If it sits on RCIs website for very long it becomes excess inventory and goes to the rentals. RCI does not wait around for the rest of us to take it at the 45 day window.

If I want to go to Hawaii its not going to be with the week I have in the bank. I'm not going to cry about it. I'll get a better trading week or I'll rent an extra vacation.

As an aside, if I can find a extra vacation for $500 or less I'll go for it even without insurance. At $500 or more I'm not so sure. AT $1200 for a week in Hawaii I would not rent from RCI without some sort of vacation insurance. Actually I would not rent at all for $1200, I would look for other options with less costly cancellation penalties and/or more flexability in checkin and checkout dates.

JMHO
Short