Worldmark Mgt Report - Highlights from Q2 report

[bizaro86]

I am hoping they build this to a higher standard of amenities than is typical for WM. (Ie lazy river, water slide, etc). I think the land should be cheap enough to make that possible.

If they do that, I would definitely consider adding days on to a disneyland trip there for some post-Disney RnR.

 

[ocdb8r]

No, this was not part of the lawsuit settlement. The settlement affirmed the Developer's right to bring new resorts into WorldMark at credit values deemed "reasonable" by the Developer.

I am sure that Murrieta will not be a "cheap" resort, but it might be a good value for the area like many other WorldMark resorts.

Wyndham has brought some "original points charts" resorts online -- Palm Springs Plaza, Pagosa Springs, Shawnee Village as a few examples. Owners commonly complain that these resorts are not up to "WorldMark standards".

Thanks, CO skier...my memory was fuzzy about what specifically was said.

I also think the standard of resorts has slipped a bit (both at new and existing properties) which I think is part of the reality of having a cap on maintenance fee increases. That said, I'm still quite happy with my most recent stays and am glad there's an option out there like WM that maintains some predictability on maintenance fee costs. Not everything has to try to be like the big name brand resorts. I do wish we'd diversify East a bit more (and yes, I understand where the ownerbase is concentrated...but we're all mobile) and that new properties didn't come on at such an enormous premium over the original resorts. It's nice that my maintenance fees are predictable but my actual accommodation costs are not as I can't really predict what my cost in points will be in the future (if I want to access the newer resorts).

 

[sparty]

Wyndham has brought some "original points charts" resorts online -- Palm Springs Plaza, Pagosa Springs, Shawnee Village as a few examples. Owners commonly complain that these resorts are not up to "WorldMark standards".

And that is a major understatement. Not sure I would let my Bulldog vacation at those resorts...

 

[bbodb1]

...Wyndham has brought some "original points charts" resorts online -- Palm Springs Plaza, Pagosa Springs, Shawnee Village as a few examples. Owners commonly complain that these resorts are not up to "WorldMark standards".

I can't speak to each of these resorts, but in the case of Pagosa Springs, it matters which village you are assigned to.
If WorldMark does not have rights to Teal Landing, some of the other villages we saw were very old and decrepit on our last stay in 2015.

 

[rhonda]

I can't speak to each of these resorts, but in the case of Pagosa Springs, it matters which village you are assigned to.
If WorldMark does not have rights to Teal Landing, some of the other villages we saw were very old and decrepit on our last stay in 2015.

Agreed! We've stayed in at least 4 sections over the past 8 visits ... one "great!!," two "never again" and the others were "quite acceptable." The section really matters when visiting Pagosa!

 

[CO skier]

I can't speak to each of these resorts, but in the case of Pagosa Springs, it matters which village you are assigned to.
If WorldMark does not have rights to Teal Landing, some of the other villages we saw were very old and decrepit on our last stay in 2015.

Agreed! We've stayed in at least 4 sections over the past 8 visits ... one "great!!," two "never again" and the others were "quite acceptable." The section really matters when visiting Pagosa!

How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that really matters and not "never again"? That is what really matters.

 

[JohnPaul]

Reservations starting in 2020 specify which section you are in.

 

[uscav8r]

How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that really matters and not "never again"? That is what really matters.

The quality varies by HOA and the WM booking system identifies the HOA for most units in the drop down list. I think the only exceptions are the 2BR Deluxe and Loft. I would also compare that to the Club Pass credit charts.

Look up the Pagosa reviews on TUG, Redweek, and other travel sites to see if you can discern any trends.

From what I can tell, the newer (and nicer) Teal Landing and Peregrine HOAs are not available via direct WM booking. Maybe they are available through Club Pass.



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[rhonda]

How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that really matters and not "never again"? That is what really matters.

The units to which WM reservations are assigned should be "brought up to standards" before occupancy. Just get the units restored!

 

[uscav8r]

Agreed! We've stayed in at least 4 sections over the past 8 visits ... one "great!!," two "never again" and the others were "quite acceptable." The section really matters when visiting Pagosa!

Do you recall which section/HOA fell into which category?


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[rhonda]

Do you recall which section/HOA fell into which category?


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My "never again" are: Ptarmigan and Eagles Loft (the pedestal units)

 

[rhonda]

How does a WorldMark Owner get a section that really matters and not "never again"? That is what really matters.

Have you seen the new booking categories for WM Pagosa? 20 different choices ... LOL, we've been heard!!

• 1 Bedroom
• 1 Bedroom - Ptarmigan
• 1 Bedroom - Village Pointe
• 1 Bedroom Deluxe
• 1 Bedroom Deluxe Special Needs
• 1 Bedroom Special Needs
• 1 Bedroom SN - Ptarmigan
• 1 Bedroom SN - Village Pointe
• 1 Bedroom Suite - Ptarmigan
• 1 Bedroom Suite - Village Poin
• 1 Bd Suite SN - Ptarmigan
• 1 Bd Suite SN - Village Pointe
• 2 Bedroom Deluxe
• 2 Bedroom Dlx - Elk Run
• 2 Bedroom Dlx - Masters Place
• 2 Bedroom Deluxe Special Needs
• 2 Bedroom Dlx SN - Elk Run
• 2 Bedroom Dlx SN - Masters Pla
• 2 Bedroom Loft
• 2 Bedroom Loft - Eagles Loft

So, it appears that "1 Bedroom Suite" is the small size of a 2BR lockout. I'm guessing "1 Bedroom Deluxe" is the larger side of the same based on historical stays but that one might choose a specific section (Ptarmigan or Village Pointe) even though the qualifier "Deluxe" is omitted from these booking categories?

FWIW, I just booked a [1BR - Village Pointe] for our 2020 visit.

Edited to add: After playing with inventory for Fall 2020, I suspect the intention is drop the categories that do not mention the section, such as "1 Bedroom Deluxe" once all reservations booked into that category have passed. Future inventory appears to be mostly segregated by section with the odd "single night" showing up here and there in the unqualified categories.

 

[JohnPaul]

The units to which WM reservations are assigned should be "brought up to standards" before occupancy. Just get the units restored!

Unfortunately WM does not own the units - just some weeks. As such it’s up to the HOA to decide on renovations.

 

[bbodb1]

Unfortunately WM does not own the units - just some weeks. As such it’s up to the HOA to decide on renovations.

This does raise a question in my mind - at some point, one would think WorldMark would review (inspect) the accommodations they are offering to ensure they meet a reasonable minimum standard of quality and comfort. In the case of Pagosa Springs, some of the villages Rhonda mentions above really are not at a level of quality a reasonable person would expect with respect to a timeshare stay. Why does WorldMark continue to offer them?

 

[ecwinch]

This does raise a question in my mind - at some point, one would think WorldMark would review (inspect) the accommodations they are offering to ensure they meet a reasonable minimum standard of quality and comfort. In the case of Pagosa Springs, some of the villages Rhonda mentions above really are not at a level of quality a reasonable person would expect with respect to a timeshare stay. Why does WorldMark continue to offer them?

Because Worldmark owns those interests. As far as I know there is no process for the Worldmark BoD to take units out of the system because they are below standard.

And since the Club does not own any credits (members do), it would be messy to do so (if they could).

 

[geist1223]

So let's say WMTC decided to dispose of a Resort. Would every Members (including Wyndham) Credits/Points have to be reduced proportionally?

 

[CO skier]

So let's say WMTC decided to dispose of a Resort. Would every Members (including Wyndham) Credits/Points have to be reduced proportionally?

The simplest and most likely scenario would be the reverse of when new resorts are added.

Wyndham would just retire enough of its Developer credits to "pay" for the entire resort.

 

[ecwinch]

So let's say WMTC decided to dispose of a Resort. Would every Members (including Wyndham) Credits/Points have to be reduced proportionally?

That is what the Declaration says. As is noted above, Club Wyndham certainly could step in and make the Club whole by swapping credits for the WM interest.

 

[CO skier]

That is what the Declaration says. As is noted above, Club Wyndham certainly could step in and make the Club whole by swapping credits for the WM interest.

That is how the Wixon unit extractions were handled.

 

[Andy Reinelt]

Murrieta is a totally bizarre place to put a timeshare.

I go to Temecula 5 to 6 times a year for wine tasting. Glad there will be a place to stay there!! been looking forward to a resort there!!

 

[bizaro86]

Because Worldmark owns those interests. As far as I know there is no process for the Worldmark BoD to take units out of the system because they are below standard.

And since the Club does not own any credits (members do), it would be messy to do so (if they could).

The right time to ensure the units were up to par was when Wyndham put them in.

 

[geist1223]

The right time to ensure the units were up to par was when Wyndham put them in.

 

[ecwinch]

And perfect is the enemy of the good.

Because what benefits the Club more - having a resort there - albeit an inperfect one - or not having a resort there at all?

Many owners have complained that the new resorts cost too many credits. So one solution to that problem is these type of deals - where we bring in these older resorts that may not initially be up to WM standards. Now the pundits will say "they should upgrade the units before placing them into inventory". And I would agree with that premise to some degree. But I also know that these types of deals are complicated - because we may not be receiving dedicated wholly-owned units where we can remodel them up to WM standards. In some cases - these are a mixed bag of timeshare weeks - which means we cannot do that.

So in those cases, we have to wait unit the controlling HOA votes to remodel the resort.

So accept a sub-par resort for a period of time or not have a resort there at all? I personally would rather have more options, but I understand that others might feel differently. Those owners have the option of not staying there until the units come up to WM standards.

 

[JohnPaul]

The only problem with the above description is that WM owners have a certain expectation for our resorts and their is nothing to let us know (short of these forums) that any given resort is not up to par.

It took 3 years after my initial and significant requests to update the website (for WM Pagosa) to more accurate information before any changes were made.

 

[bizaro86]

And perfect is the enemy of the good.

Because what benefits the Club more - having a resort there - albeit an inperfect one - or not having a resort there at all?

Many owners have complained that the new resorts cost too many credits. So one solution to that problem is these type of deals - where we bring in these older resorts that may not initially be up to WM standards. Now the pundits will say "they should upgrade the units before placing them into inventory". And I would agree with that premise to some degree. But I also know that these types of deals are complicated - because we may not be receiving dedicated wholly-owned units where we can remodel them up to WM standards. In some cases - these are a mixed bag of timeshare weeks - which means we cannot do that.

So in those cases, we have to wait unit the controlling HOA votes to remodel the resort.

So accept a sub-par resort for a period of time or not have a resort there at all? I personally would rather have more options, but I understand that others might feel differently. Those owners have the option of not staying there until the units come up to WM standards.

While I sympathize with your point, ultimately adding low quality resorts to the club dilutes the value and usability of what we all own. I agree that taking something imperfect would be ok, especially if there is a plan to improve it AND it is communicated to members prior to booking what they are getting. Whether it will be getting remodelled to WM standards matters here imo. If the HOA never intends to do that I would be in favor of not taking the resort.