Wiring money for rental?

[TUGBrian]

we dont show that contact for that listing? thats a totally different person (different name and email address that I see.

are you sure that is the correct ad number? (just want to make sure before i remove someones valid ad)

that name (bo jun) however is absolutely a known scammer from way back.

 

[Fishcoley]

we dont show that contact for that listing? thats a totally different person (different name and email address that I see.

are you sure that is the correct ad number? (just want to make sure before i remove someones valid ad)

that name (bo jun) however is absolutely a known scammer from way back.

I’m not seeing the listing anymore to verify but attached is the renter stating the listing #....

 

[DeniseM]

HA HA "home4rrest1@gmail.com" = Home Arrest 1 How appropriate!!!

 

[HudsHut]

Thank you for coming back and letting us know. I'm glad you were able to ascertain that this was a fraud.
I'm typing the phone from that text so that a search will reveal it:
717-204-4493 scammer's phone
Please post all emails used (e.g. the alternate PayPal email)
Did he give any phony references? I ask because a recent scammer on WMOwners used phony references. A couple weeks later, a new classified ad was posted by one of the phony references from the prior scam!!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Well folks...you sniffed this one out. The PayPal link he gave me(he didn’t set one up himself after all) is to yet a “different” 3rd party. Upon searching her name, there are reports of vacation scams with her as a partner in it. Where can I “out” this duo?

I'm glad you didn't taken.

But, frankly, sniffing out this one is bad is like sniffing out that you've got a rotten egg in your refrigerator. The one smelled rotten from the start, and only got worse as you shared more details.

 

[TUGBrian]

yep, i went ahead and removed the ad in question and suspended the account just to be safe while we look into it further.

that contact info above definitely does not match the member who posted that ads contact info

 

[RX8]

Thank you all! Not one person thinks this is an okay option so far. Thanks.

I do have a contract, original reservation and have called to confirm the reservation and his ownership. All looks great. Obviously, I’m here though so I must not feel confident about it. I can find zero presence of this person online or social media and the wire is to his “accountant” under another name. I’m justifying this because maybe he is mature of age and doesn’t have an online presence. I won’t do it......

Did he email you the contract that required you to click on a link? A common scam is to send you to a page that looks legit but requires you to enter your email address and password. Once you do that the scammer can access your email.

 

[Fishcoley]

The other contact information used was a phone number ( ‭717-204-4493‬) and the following PayPal address
https://www.paypal.me/Waddell227
You can google search “Donna Waddell scam” and see a recent report on BBB.

Additionally, I know that the things I posted were big red flags. These were the odd things I saw which is why I brought them up (I’m grateful you took the time to confirm these oddities) but this guy is GOOD at this. Amongst all these “flags” there were also things he did right, which was so confusing. In the end, I felt guilty breaking the transaction even though I knew he was lying through his teeth. Until the actual owner and I did a three-way call with him, he did not back down, shy away or even act like he was getting caught in his game. But the three way call sealed the deal and was satisfying...I’m sure he thought I was calling back to reconsider and take his word.

For the reference of future buyers, here is a summary of his game....
#1 He was very professional and accommodating by phone. He knew about the property (Marriott Maui Ocean Club) and knew their procedures for renting(I’ve been to this property several times and my parents are owners so I wasn’t going in blind either). He was willing to talk about it and didn’t seem skiddish at all. He is convincing & confident. If anything, the phone conversations made me doubt my doubts! He willingly communicates though text, by phone, and email.

#2 He provided a good looking rental agreement and asked me to sign it. FLAG-I google searched the address he gave me and it is a home, but all public records list someone else as the owner.
FLAG-He specified within the contract that the rental $$ was to be paid to his trust though his accountant (Mavis Choate). I thought, odd, but maybe he is trying to be upfront about this in the beginning?
I couldn’t confirm his identity through a google search or social media. I’ve rented through other avenues before and have always been able to find some online presence that the person existed but couldn’t find anything for him! I found a person by the same name on the opposite coast who also has a limited online presence and because he is in the medical profession, his office information is public.

#3 He emailed me what appears to be the real reservation confirmation from MMOC. I called Marriott and they confirmed His ownership, the reservation, unit, etc. Everything checked out. How did he get the actual reservation? (He was posing as the owner)

#4 After I confirmed that I had varified the reservation, he sent me his bank name, account #, and routing number and requested payment(FLAG) I called him and asked if he would consider PayPal and he said he would talk to his accountant and setup an account. He said he had been renting for 9 years and hadn’t had any issues with using bank transfers but was happy to try to accommodate if it gave me peace of mind about the transaction. He wasn’t upset and didn’t try to push the account too far.
#5 (FLAG) He sent a PayPal address that was for yet a different 3rd party (a “trusted friend”). A google search later linked her to timeshare rental scam on BBB.

So I called the office of the man(on the opposite coast) that had the same name. He was confused but confirmed he had a timeshare for that week on Maui. He got ahead of me with a few questions So I knew he was a true owner. He was pretty upset. I relayed all the info I could about the person who was using his identy.

I hadn’t gotten back to the renter and he did start getting impatient. He claimed he had someone else who was waiting and out of consideration to please let him know and to not hesitate to call if I had any concerns.
I finally answered his call and told him I had been talking to the real owner. He seemed confused and said there must be an explainarion. He knew who he was and has all the documents to prove it. He said, “Marriott has a strict process to verify people and it would be impossible for this to happen.” He wanted me to give him the other owners number so that he could work out the misunderstanding and I would see there was a mistake somehow. I told him that I’m sorry but I couldn’t proceed when there were 2 people claiming to own 1 reservation. Why would I apologize? He was good!

Shortly after, the real owner called me and asked if I would be willing to do a 3-way call to his imposter. We did and the renter(imposter) immediately hung up when the real owner identified his presence on the call

 

[Fishcoley]

Did he email you the contract that required you to click on a link? A common scam is to send you to a page that looks legit but requires you to enter your email address and password. Once you do that the scammer can access your email.

No. It was a print, sign, and email back. Good to be aware of, thanks.

 

[Egret1986]

The other contact information used was a phone number ( ‭717-204-4493‬) and the following PayPal address
https://www.paypal.me/Waddell227
You can google search “Donna Waddell scam” and see a recent report on BBB.

Additionally, I know that the things I posted were big red flags. These were the odd things I saw which is why I brought them up (I’m grateful you took the time to confirm these oddities) but this guy is GOOD at this. Amongst all these “flags” there were also things he did right which was so confusing. In the end, I felt guilty breaking the transaction even though I knew he was lying through his teeth. Until the actually owner and I did a three-way call with him, he did not back down, shy away or even act like he was getting caught in his game. But the three way call sealed the deal and was satisfying...I’m sure he thought I was calling back to reconsider and take his word.

For the reference of future buyers, here is a summary of his game....
#1 He was very professional and accommodating by phone. He knew about the property (Marriott Maui Ocean Club) and knew their procedures for renting(I’ve been to this property several times and my parents are owners so I wasn’t going in blind either). He was willing to talk about it and didn’t seem skiddish at all. He is convincing & confident. If anything, the phone conversations made me doubt my doubts! He willingly communicates though text, by phone, and email.

#2 He provided a good looking rental agreement and asked me to sign it. FLAG-I google searched the address he gave me and it is a home but all public records list someone else as the owner.
FLAG-He specified within the contract that the rental $$ was to be paid to his trust though his accountant (Mavis Choate). I thought, odd, but maybe he is trying to be upfront about this in the beginning?
I couldn’t confirm his identity through a google search or social media. I’ve rented through other avenues before and have always been able to fins Some presence. I found a person by the same name on the opposite coast who also has a limited online presence but because he is in the medical professional, his office information is public.

#3 He emailed me what appears to be the real reservation confirmation from MMOC. I called Marriott and they confirmed His ownership, the reservation, unit, etc. Everything checked out. How did he get the actual reservation?

#4 After I confirmed that I had varified the reservation he sent me his bank name, account #, and routing number and requested payment(FLAG) I called him and asked if he would consider PayPal and he said he would talk to his accountant and setup an account. He said he had been renting for 9 years and hadn’t had any issues with using bank transfers but was happy to try to accommodate if it gave me peace of mind about the transaction. He wasn’t upset and didn’t try to push the account too far.
#5 (FLAG) He sent a PayPal address that was for yet a different 3rd party (a “trusted friend”). A google search later linked her to timeshare rental scam on BBB.

So I called the office of the man(on the opposite coast) that had the same name. He was confused but confirmed he had a timeshare for that week on Maui. He got ahead of me with a few questions So I knew he was a true owner. He was pretty upset. I relayed all the info I could about the person who was using his identy.

I hadn’t gotten back to the renter and he did start getting impatient. He claimed he had someone else who was waiting and out of consideration to please let him know and to not hesitate to call if I had any concerns.
I finally answered his call and told him I had been talking to the real owner. He seemed confused and said there must be an explainarion. He knew who he was and has all the documents to prove it. Marriott has a strict process to verify people and it would be impossible for what I was saying to happen. He wanted me to give him the other owners number so that he could work it out the confusion and I would see there was a mistake somehow. I told him that I’m sorry but I couldn’t proceed when there were 2 people claiming to own 1 reservation. Why would I apologize? He was good!

Shortly after, the real owner called me and asked if I would be willing to do a 3-way call to his imposter. We did and the renter(imposter) immediately hung up when the real owner identified his presence on the call

As you state, "He was good!". He's more savvy than the average rental scammer. I am sure he is probably quite successful at this. I'm glad that you didn't fall victim. You are not the average renter either. I believe many would be fooled by the reservation and the confirmation by the resort. Thank you for posting your experience.

 

[PamMo]

Wow. There are a lot of owners who do rentals and they give out information to potential clients all the time. It's not a far stretch to think that a scammer could take that information and make a very convincing fake ad. Owners have to come up with ways to verify that they are who they say there are and have that unit to rent, without giving out too much information to scammers like this.

 

[Fishcoley]

Wow. There are a lot of owners who do rentals and they give out information to potential clients all the time. It's not a far stretch to think that a scammer could take that information and make a very convincing fake ad. Owners have to come up with ways to verify that they are who they say there are and have that unit to rent, without giving out too much information to scammers like this.

I think this is exactly what happened. The “real owner” said that he listed his unit on redweek. I think it’s possible that he first posed as a buyer to gain the information. Be careful on both sides out there. So frustrating!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

The other contact information used was a phone number ( ‭717-204-4493‬) and the following PayPal address
https://www.paypal.me/Waddell227
You can google search “Donna Waddell scam” and see a recent report on BBB.

Additionally, I know that the things I posted were big red flags. These were the odd things I saw which is why I brought them up (I’m grateful you took the time to confirm these oddities) but this guy is GOOD at this. Amongst all these “flags” there were also things he did right, which was so confusing. In the end, I felt guilty breaking the transaction even though I knew he was lying through his teeth. Until the actual owner and I did a three-way call with him, he did not back down, shy away or even act like he was getting caught in his game. But the three way call sealed the deal and was satisfying...I’m sure he thought I was calling back to reconsider and take his word.

For the reference of future buyers, here is a summary of his game....
#1 He was very professional and accommodating by phone. He knew about the property (Marriott Maui Ocean Club) and knew their procedures for renting(I’ve been to this property several times and my parents are owners so I wasn’t going in blind either). He was willing to talk about it and didn’t seem skiddish at all. He is convincing & confident. If anything, the phone conversations made me doubt my doubts! He willingly communicates though text, by phone, and email.

#2 He provided a good looking rental agreement and asked me to sign it. FLAG-I google searched the address he gave me and it is a home, but all public records list someone else as the owner.
FLAG-He specified within the contract that the rental $$ was to be paid to his trust though his accountant (Mavis Choate). I thought, odd, but maybe he is trying to be upfront about this in the beginning?
I couldn’t confirm his identity through a google search or social media. I’ve rented through other avenues before and have always been able to find some online presence that the person existed but couldn’t find anything for him! I found a person by the same name on the opposite coast who also has a limited online presence and because he is in the medical profession, his office information is public.

#3 He emailed me what appears to be the real reservation confirmation from MMOC. I called Marriott and they confirmed His ownership, the reservation, unit, etc. Everything checked out. How did he get the actual reservation? (He was posing as the owner)

#4 After I confirmed that I had varified the reservation, he sent me his bank name, account #, and routing number and requested payment(FLAG) I called him and asked if he would consider PayPal and he said he would talk to his accountant and setup an account. He said he had been renting for 9 years and hadn’t had any issues with using bank transfers but was happy to try to accommodate if it gave me peace of mind about the transaction. He wasn’t upset and didn’t try to push the account too far.
#5 (FLAG) He sent a PayPal address that was for yet a different 3rd party (a “trusted friend”). A google search later linked her to timeshare rental scam on BBB.

So I called the office of the man(on the opposite coast) that had the same name. He was confused but confirmed he had a timeshare for that week on Maui. He got ahead of me with a few questions So I knew he was a true owner. He was pretty upset. I relayed all the info I could about the person who was using his identy.

I hadn’t gotten back to the renter and he did start getting impatient. He claimed he had someone else who was waiting and out of consideration to please let him know and to not hesitate to call if I had any concerns.
I finally answered his call and told him I had been talking to the real owner. He seemed confused and said there must be an explainarion. He knew who he was and has all the documents to prove it. He said, “Marriott has a strict process to verify people and it would be impossible for this to happen.” He wanted me to give him the other owners number so that he could work out the misunderstanding and I would see there was a mistake somehow. I told him that I’m sorry but I couldn’t proceed when there were 2 people claiming to own 1 reservation. Why would I apologize? He was good!

Shortly after, the real owner called me and asked if I would be willing to do a 3-way call to his imposter. We did and the renter(imposter) immediately hung up when the real owner identified his presence on the call

That's quite a story. I'm impressed that you were able to avoid being scammed. Most wary renters would have had their concerns allayed at some point during the process.

 

[DeniseM]

Scammers are successful for 2 main reasons:

-They offer very low prices - which tempts renters to accept a sketchy deal.

-They are convincing liars - they lie all day for a living.

Pathetic!

 

[LobsterHunter]

I wouldn't consider renting from anyone who refused to take payment through PayPal.

When paying someone for something through PayPal always pay with a credit card linked to your PayPal account, not your balance, your bank account nor your debit card. Paying with a credit card linked to your account gives you an additional layer of protection in addition to PayPal. People here on TUG have said that PayPal won't stand behind timeshare rentals. I know for a fact through personal experience that they don't have a choice when you file a dispute with your credit card company.

I find this interesting, although I currently accept PayPal for my rentals, I am less and less inclined to do so. I have heard of more and more horror stories of owners being scammed by bogus renters or unethical renters who file a claim after the fact w/PayPal. From what I have read, even owners with valid "iron clad" rental agreements are being charged back against their PayPal accounts with no recourse. So the owner ends up being out the use of their unit and no compensation, because PayPal wants to side with the person complaining instead of actually "investigating" or dealing with a credit card charge back. I am just not a fan of PayPal.

 

[bluehende]

I find this interesting, although I currently accept PayPal for my rentals, I am less and less inclined to do so. I have heard of more and more horror stories of owners being scammed by bogus renters or unethical renters who file a claim after the fact w/PayPal. From what I have read, even owners with valid "iron clad" rental agreements are being charged back against their PayPal accounts with no recourse. So the owner ends up being out the use of their unit and no compensation, because PayPal wants to side with the person complaining instead of actually "investigating" or dealing with a credit card charge back. I am just not a fan of PayPal.

I would think the answer would be to take credit cards directly. At least then you can state your case with the cc company.

 

[dioxide45]

I would think the answer would be to take credit cards directly. At least then you can state your case with the cc company.

Or payment by certified check or money order.

 

[DeniseM]

I would think the answer would be to take credit cards directly. At least then you can state your case with the cc company.

Unless you already own a business of some kind, it is very difficult to get approved to accept credit cards for timeshare rentals. The credit card companies don't want to deal with timeshare businesses - too many scammers.

I have heard of more and more horror stories of owners being scammed by bogus renters or unethical renters who file a claim after the fact w/PayPal.

With PayPal, generally the buyers are disputing the payment with their credit card company - not PayPal. If the credit card reverses the charges, PayPal can't do a thing about it.

However, I think the report of this happening frequently with PayPal is exaggerated. If it was happening frequently, we'd hear about it here on TUG.

*I believe that in most cases, the credit card owner has 60 days after the charge hits their CC statement to dispute the charge, so this is a good reason not to accepts payments within 60 days of check-in. Sometimes you can't avoid it because it's a last minute rental, but if it's not a last minute rental, get your payment early - don't leave that door open.

Or payment by certified check or money order.

Unfortunately, the scammers all want payments for which you have no recourse, like certified checks and money ordery, so this can make renters suspicious.

 

[presley]

Thank you all! Not one person thinks this is an okay option so far. Thanks.

I do have a contract, original reservation and have called to confirm the reservation and his ownership. All looks great. Obviously, I’m here though so I must not feel confident about it. I can find zero presence of this person online or social media and the wire is to his “accountant” under another name. I’m justifying this because maybe he is mature of age and doesn’t have an online presence. I won’t do it......

Common scam is to involve a extra person aka accountant, etc. You should cut off all contact with this person.

 

[Honistor]

Thank you guys for this thread, I found an add yesterday 11/7/18 on the Tug rental page. While doing my due diligence I googled the number he called me from and it pulled up this forum. Obviously he is still using Tug to scam people.

 

[Honistor]

Thank you guys for this thread, I found an add yesterday 11/7/18 on the Tug rental page. While doing my due diligence I googled the number he called me from and it pulled up this forum. Obviously he is still using Tug to scam people.

the email he used changed a little to home4r rest1

 

[dioxide45]

Please report this to @TUGBrian

 

[TUGBrian]

what was the ad number? or any details about the ad we can use to track it down? sadly there are nearly 4000 active ads at any time.

 

[TUGBrian]

This individual is still targeting timeshare renters!

in every single instance he/she is thwarted by even the most basic of verification for a rental ad, there is absolutely no reason to ignore obvious red flags for rentals from strangers!