Why Wyndham is Good

[Arimaas]

So I said this over in "the other topic" but I wanted to repeat it because it was likely missed. If you understand the product, and how to use it, and how to maximize your purchase, the Wyndham product is great. Before 154K of my points go poof, thanks to TUG and eBay, I have something like 516K points, which I paid a grand total of at most $1000 for including transfer fees, closing costs and deed prep. When my 154K points go poof, I'll likely get that back (or at least half of it), and still be left with 362K points.

Anyway, to the point of this post. My average cost per 1K points is about $7.50/k, and will remain about the same come January 1. In June I had a 1 bedroom oceanview deluxe booked at Towers on the Grove and waitlisted a 2 bedroom deluxe oceanfront, which came up a few weeks ago, that I booked for 7 nights for 220k points. It'll be my annual daddy daughter trip to Myrtle while my daughter is out of school but her mother still has to work. Since I have to take off for child care, just the two of us go away.

So the point of all this is, since I know how to use the system, and the value of my points and what I can get, and how to use the products such as waitlist etc., I am getting a two bedroom oceanfront room, during school vacation time, in North Myrtle Beach, SC for what works out to $1650 or $236 a night, with no added tax, resort fees, parking fees, etc. There is no other way to get an oceanfront, 2 bedroom condo, with a washer and dryer, full kitchen and a balcony that opens up to the Atlantic Ocean during summer vacation. Even AirBnB is about $1800 a total, and, I'll be honest, I do not like AirBnB. I rather stay at a Wyndham where I know what amenities to expect, there's a gym, games, towels, blankets, TVs, W/Ds, etc. I dont need to stay in someone's vacation house with cheap Target sheets that feel like sandpaper, and bathrooms that haven't been updated since 1989.

Figured I'd post something positive for a change.

 

[Pennytx]

I love your attitude
Nice to see a posative post

 

[dioxide45]

I saw your post in the other thread and you indicated you previously owned HGVC but seemed to think Wyndham was equal or better in terms of their properties. Perhaps I am not staying at the right places, but I haven't found where they line up the same or even close. We went on a trip in March through five properties and three of them were shared properties with full ownership HOAs. That was Emerald Grand, Panama City and SeaWatch. We went to Ocean Walk several years ago, same thing. Shared timeshare and full ownership HOA. Something about the whole vibe is different. Club Wyndham properties feel much more like a condo than a dedicated vacation resort like the Hilton and Marriott properties. Are the other Wyndham properties in Myrtle Beach like this or are they purpose built 100% Club Wyndham? The only Wyndham property that feels like a destination resort is Bonnet Creek. Even Clearwater was a shared property with a hotel, but at least it seemed like a destination resort and not a Club Wyndham located in a condo complex.

This seems to be why I have a hard time calling many of the properties "resorts". They just don't feel like destination resorts when I could also live there if I wanted to.

 

[Arimaas]

I saw your post in the other thread and you indicated you previously owned HGVC but seemed to think Wyndham was equal or better in terms of their properties. Perhaps I am not staying at the right places, but I haven't found where they line up the same or even close. We went on a trip in March through five properties and three of them were shared properties with full ownership HOAs. That was Emerald Grand, Panama City and SeaWatch. We went to Ocean Walk several years ago, same thing. Shared timeshare and full ownership HOA. Something about the whole vibe is different. Club Wyndham properties feel much more like a condo than a dedicated vacation resort like the Hilton and Marriott properties. Are the other Wyndham properties in Myrtle Beach like this or are they purpose built 100% Club Wyndham? The only Wyndham property that feels like a destination resort is Bonnet Creek. Even Clearwater was a shared property with a hotel, but at least it seemed like a destination resort and not a Club Wyndham located in a condo complex.

This seems to be why I have a hard time calling many of the properties "resorts". They just don't feel like destination resorts when I could also live there if I wanted to.

I see your point about the resorts versus condos. My only experience with both Wyndham and HGVC is Orlando and Myrtle.

The HGVCs in Orlando were unimpressive to me. Bonnet Creek blew them all away, IMHO. As for Myrtle, I like Towers on the Grove, which isn't quite a Bonnet style resort, but I would consider it more of a resort than a condo. HGVC was not impressive in Myrtle either. The lazy river and pools were a joke. That being said, the other places I've stayed with Wyndham was really only, New Orleans (Avenue Plaza) Shawnee, Skyline and Newport, and given that, I can see why you consider them more condos.

HGVC, I believe, are much nicer on the West Coast than the East Coast, and that might have something to do with it. My brother and sister have used both my HGVC in Hawaii and Vegas. I'm not sure if they know enough to compare the two products, however.

Either way, I still was unimpressed with HGVC, but I think that has more to do with my East Coast travels. Remember, HGVC seems to cater to an Asian clientele on the West Coast (unscientific, anecdotal observation opinion).

 

[Twenty20]

As to you comment about Airbnb/VRBO. I just returned from a fabulous VRBO Beach condo in Miramar Beach, that had amenities, furnishings, etc greatly superior to any Wyndham property I've ever stayed. And for a price that was equivalent. No sandpaper sheets. Even nice touches like quality beach towels, beach toys, K-Cups, etc included

Key is to find properties with professional property management and solid reviews. Not that hard and the world is your oyster.

Oh and a parking pass just left on the counter and key code access sent via email... No ridiculous argument gauntlet with some pushy sales person just to check into your damn unit.

 

[Arimaas]

As to you comment about Airbnb/VRBO. I just returned from a fabulous VRBO Beach condo in Miramar Beach, that had amenities, furnishings, etc greatly superior to any Wyndham property I've ever stayed. And for a price that was equivalent. No sandpaper sheets. Even nice touches like quality beach towels, beach toys, K-Cups, etc included

Key is to find properties with professional property management and solid reviews. Not that hard and the world is your oyster.

Oh and a parking pass just left on the counter and key code access sent via email... No ridiculous argument gauntlet with some pushy sales person just to check into your damn unit.

I can see the attraction of AIrBnB, and it will probably kill the remainder of Wyndham's busienss in the next two to three decades. However, it isn't for me. It's too much of a gamble still, and while I do not like waiting in line and dealing with their nonsense for the parking pass and wrist band, but I also do like the "socialization" that happens staying at a timeshare property with other folks. To each their own. I am sure as the years carry on, I'll be moving more to the AirBnB and less to the Wyndham, especially if the current saga is any indication of the future of the industry.

 

[jp10558]

I saw your post in the other thread and you indicated you previously owned HGVC but seemed to think Wyndham was equal or better in terms of their properties. Perhaps I am not staying at the right places, but I haven't found where they line up the same or even close. We went on a trip in March through five properties and three of them were shared properties with full ownership HOAs. That was Emerald Grand, Panama City and SeaWatch. We went to Ocean Walk several years ago, same thing. Shared timeshare and full ownership HOA. Something about the whole vibe is different. Club Wyndham properties feel much more like a condo than a dedicated vacation resort like the Hilton and Marriott properties. Are the other Wyndham properties in Myrtle Beach like this or are they purpose built 100% Club Wyndham? The only Wyndham property that feels like a destination resort is Bonnet Creek. Even Clearwater was a shared property with a hotel, but at least it seemed like a destination resort and not a Club Wyndham located in a condo complex.

This seems to be why I have a hard time calling many of the properties "resorts". They just don't feel like destination resorts when I could also live there if I wanted to.

The HGVC properties I've been to overwhelmingly do NOT feel like a destination resort to me. Maybe I miss a lot, or I don't understand what you mean.

• Ocean Enclave - I only saw a pool and hot tub.
• The District was a "fancified hotel".
• Ocean Oak had pool and hot tub.
• McAlpin Plaza was just a hot tub.
• Marbrisa was 50% non HGVC for stuff like the spa.
• Flamingo was a pool I think, everything else was shared with the casino. Maybe Hawaii is amazing, but I'm probably not ever going there.

The units are nicer in HGVC than most Wyndham, but Wyndham is equally likely to feel like a "destination".

• La Belle Maison had stuff going on like popcorn and other treats, they had a pool and hot tub, they had a whole meeting/lounging room area on the second floor.
• Smoky Mountains had multiple activities centers and outdoor stuff to do.
• Smugglers Notch is a quintessential destination IMO - lots of pools, lots of activities, a whole "village center" with dining, shopping, activities center.

Also, having mixed ownership doesn't make me think it's not a destination resort - Massanutten is a prime example.

 

[jp10558]

HGVC, I believe, are much nicer on the West Coast than the East Coast, and that might have something to do with it. My brother and sister have used both my HGVC in Hawaii and Vegas. I'm not sure if they know enough to compare the two products, however.

I don't think I'd go "much nicer" comparing say Ocean Enclave and Ocean Oak to say Marbrisa or Flamingo. I think they're both "fine". Maybe Hawaii or other places in Vegas are much better.

 

[jp10558]

As to you comment about Airbnb/VRBO. I just returned from a fabulous VRBO Beach condo in Miramar Beach, that had amenities, furnishings, etc greatly superior to any Wyndham property I've ever stayed. And for a price that was equivalent. No sandpaper sheets. Even nice touches like quality beach towels, beach toys, K-Cups, etc included

Key is to find properties with professional property management and solid reviews. Not that hard and the world is your oyster.

Oh and a parking pass just left on the counter and key code access sent via email... No ridiculous argument gauntlet with some pushy sales person just to check into your damn unit.

My first VRBO was very underwhelming, though competitively priced. I do need to get my other videos up soon. I've been avoiding AirB&B due to pricing and reported surprise charges etc. VRBO doesn't have that, though they still can have ridiculous cleaning requirements I guess. I still find that it really depends on how/where/why you travel. Beachfront in the Adirondacks? No TS / Wyndham is going to do that. Hunt for amazing deals to go to ($500ish weeks in 2BR) - no VRBO is doing that. The middle is messy, but overall I still find TS tend to beat other options price wise. I do plan to try VRBO again, when I want to spend $1000+ for 4 nights... And that's the non professional management ones - professional management tends to drive that price up.

 

[Arimaas]

I don't think I'd go "much nicer" comparing say Ocean Enclave and Ocean Oak to say Marbrisa or Flamingo. I think they're both "fine". Maybe Hawaii or other places in Vegas are much better.

I've never been to HGVC on the West Coast, so can't say I know for sure. But it seems like HGVC is more focused on the West Coast operations than East Coast.

 

[chosshaul]

Can’t say I love the Wyndham properties I’ve seen with one exception— the Club Wyndham properties. Also I like a lot of the worldmark network.

Many of the HGVC properties aren’t the best but they are really nice in Hawaii.

I don’t like Airbnb much but it makes me wonder if Airbnb will ever create a vacation membership model as their timeshare competition where people pay a flat rate for a set number of years and then take their pick of available high rated Airbnb destinations.

 

[chapjim]

The HGVC properties I've been to overwhelmingly do NOT feel like a destination resort to me. Maybe I miss a lot, or I don't understand what you mean.

• Ocean Enclave - I only saw a pool and hot tub.
• The District was a "fancified hotel".
• Ocean Oak had pool and hot tub.
• McAlpin Plaza was just a hot tub.
• Marbrisa was 50% non HGVC for stuff like the spa.
• Flamingo was a pool I think, everything else was shared with the casino. Maybe Hawaii is amazing, but I'm probably not ever going there.

The units are nicer in HGVC than most Wyndham, but Wyndham is equally likely to feel like a "destination".

• La Belle Maison had stuff going on like popcorn and other treats, they had a pool and hot tub, they had a whole meeting/lounging room area on the second floor.
• Smoky Mountains had multiple activities centers and outdoor stuff to do.
• Smugglers Notch is a quintessential destination IMO - lots of pools, lots of activities, a whole "village center" with dining, shopping, activities center.

Also, having mixed ownership doesn't make me think it's not a destination resort - Massanutten is a prime example.

I think you're understating some of these facilities. Saying Ocean Oak has a pool and a hot tub makes it sound like it's out in the middle of a field. A beach and an ocean don't count?

I dare say no one goes to McAlpin for the hot tub. And I doubt expect people who go to McAlpin would still go even without a hot tub. Most would say the art deco section of Miami Beach is a destination, regardless of the lodging facility.

[Edited to make more sense.]

 

[dioxide45]

The HGVC properties I've been to overwhelmingly do NOT feel like a destination resort to me. Maybe I miss a lot, or I don't understand what you mean.

• Ocean Enclave - I only saw a pool and hot tub.
• The District was a "fancified hotel".
• Ocean Oak had pool and hot tub.
• McAlpin Plaza was just a hot tub.
• Marbrisa was 50% non HGVC for stuff like the spa.
• Flamingo was a pool I think, everything else was shared with the casino. Maybe Hawaii is amazing, but I'm probably not ever going there.

The units are nicer in HGVC than most Wyndham, but Wyndham is equally likely to feel like a "destination".

• La Belle Maison had stuff going on like popcorn and other treats, they had a pool and hot tub, they had a whole meeting/lounging room area on the second floor.
• Smoky Mountains had multiple activities centers and outdoor stuff to do.
• Smugglers Notch is a quintessential destination IMO - lots of pools, lots of activities, a whole "village center" with dining, shopping, activities center.

Also, having mixed ownership doesn't make me think it's not a destination resort - Massanutten is a prime example.

Perhaps what I am thinking of isn't necessarily a destination resort but something more about cohesiveness. Something about Wyndham properties lack cohesion. I think some of that may be due to the multiple HOAs and also whole ownership condos in the same properties. There are not many properties in the Wyndham system that are like Bonnet Creek but there are a lot more of these types of properties within Marriott and Hilton. Hilton properties do tend to be smaller but most if not all were purpose built as timeshare by Hilton to be a timeshare resort. That doesn't seem to be the case with Wyndham. It seems like for many of their properties, they stepped in to help save a whole ownership condo that simply wasn't selling well and they bought a bunch of units to add to Club Wyndham. Ocean Walk, Panama City, SeaWatch, Emerald Grande. Are there more or perhaps the only Wyndham properties I've visited have been this type of arrangement.

 

[jp10558]

I think you're understating some of these facilities. Saying Ocean Oak has a pool and a hot tub makes it sound like it's out in the middle of a field. A beach and an ocean don't count?

I guess that goes to my confusion - if you're there for the "not in the resort stuff" like the ocean, I personally feel like any "condo" has the same things if it's reasonably similarly located. I guess Wyndham Nashville loses a lot of its negatives if you just want a bed and are there to go to the Grand Ol Opry. I'm not really sure how the location changes the "condo feel" - if you VRBOd a condo just down the road, it'd have the same beach and ocean stuff for instance. I was speaking in relation to Wyndham being "just a condo" - the stuff outside the resort or condo building aren't in scope IMO.

I dare say no one goes to McAlpin for the hot tub. And I doubt people who go to McAlpin would still go even without a hot tub. Most would say the art deco section of Miami Beach is a destination, regardless of the lodging facility.

I'm not arguing that the art deco section there isn't a destination, it is - but it has nothing to do with the resort as you point out.

 

[jp10558]

Perhaps what I am thinking of isn't necessarily a destination resort but something more about cohesiveness. Something about Wyndham properties lack cohesion. I think some of that may be due to the multiple HOAs and also whole ownership condos in the same properties. There are not many properties in the Wyndham system that are like Bonnet Creek but there are a lot more of these types of properties within Marriott and Hilton. Hilton properties do tend to be smaller but most if not all were purpose built as timeshare by Hilton to be a timeshare resort. That doesn't seem to be the case with Wyndham. It seems like for many of their properties, they stepped in to help save a whole ownership condo that simply wasn't selling well and they bought a bunch of units to add to Club Wyndham. Ocean Walk, Panama City, SeaWatch, Emerald Grande. Are there more or perhaps the only Wyndham properties I've visited have been this type of arrangement.

Well, the McAlpin wasn't built by Hilton to be a TS. Neither was Elara, they took it over. I believe Paradise or at least one of the Florida ones was a hotel conversion. So is at least one of the Japanese ones. I just think you've hit more of the "designed as TS" in HGVC than you have in Wyndham. Both have a mix IMO. I don't really look for a special cohesiveness myself - I find that varies widely in both systems. I just have yet to see why say Smugglers Notch is bad and say MarBrisa is good. I would care a lot more about the resort amenities, and while the units aren't as fancy in Wyndham, they do IME have more actual things to do and stuff like Saunas than the HGVC I've stayed at, where it's basically hot tubs and pools.

 

[Arimaas]

I think you're understating some of these facilities. Saying Ocean Oak has a pool and a hot tub makes it sound like it's out in the middle of a field. A beach and an ocean don't count?

I dare say no one goes to McAlpin for the hot tub. And I doubt people who go to McAlpin would still go even without a hot tub. Most would say the art deco section of Miami Beach is a destination, regardless of the lodging facility.

I was supposed to go there in April of 2020, but for obvious reasons, it got canceled. Was looking forward to going there, however, but dumped HGVC not too long after. The location is fantastic. I spent much of my youth much further up A1A in the 90s. Would have been nice to been back there. Next life.

 

[dayooper]

I guess that goes to my confusion - if you're there for the "not in the resort stuff" like the ocean, I personally feel like any "condo" has the same things if it's reasonably similarly located. I guess Wyndham Nashville loses a lot of its negatives if you just want a bed and are there to go to the Grand Ol Opry. I'm not really sure how the location changes the "condo feel" - if you VRBOd a condo just down the road, it'd have the same beach and ocean stuff for instance. I was speaking in relation to Wyndham being "just a condo" - the stuff outside the resort or condo building aren't in scope IMO.

I'm not arguing that the art deco section there isn't a destination, it is - but it has nothing to do with the resort as you point out.

This is where you and I disagree. We go to the HGVC locations because we want to go to those areas. We go to Myrtle Beach for the beach and activities off property. We go to Ocean Oak for the beach, restaurants and biking. We go to Chicago and Vegas for access to the city. With the exception of Chicago, we absolutely love the size of our rooms (2 and 3 bedrooms with full kitchens). When we are travelling with our family, the room is necessary for us. We don't go to the properties because of the resort amenities. I understand why someone would want to, but that's for us.

 

[Arimaas]

Well, the McAlpin wasn't built by Hilton to be a TS. Neither was Elara, they took it over. I believe Paradise or at least one of the Florida ones was a hotel conversion. So is at least one of the Japanese ones. I just think you've hit more of the "designed as TS" in HGVC than you have in Wyndham. Both have a mix IMO. I don't really look for a special cohesiveness myself - I find that varies widely in both systems. I just have yet to see why say Smugglers Notch is bad and say MarBrisa is good. I would care a lot more about the resort amenities, and while the units aren't as fancy in Wyndham, they do IME have more actual things to do and stuff like Saunas than the HGVC I've stayed at, where it's basically hot tubs and pools.

Like I said above, in the HGVC I've stayed versus the Wyndham I've stayed, I've actually been happier with Wyndham versus HGVC. HGVC Sea World stinks. Tuscany Village was OK, but nothing spectacular. HGVC Ocean 22 wasn't anything impressive either. The HGVC may have been higher end inside the unit compared but even so, I don't think by much.

Perhaps what I am thinking of isn't necessarily a destination resort but something more about cohesiveness. Something about Wyndham properties lack cohesion. I think some of that may be due to the multiple HOAs and also whole ownership condos in the same properties. There are not many properties in the Wyndham system that are like Bonnet Creek but there are a lot more of these types of properties within Marriott and Hilton. Hilton properties do tend to be smaller but most if not all were purpose built as timeshare by Hilton to be a timeshare resort. That doesn't seem to be the case with Wyndham. It seems like for many of their properties, they stepped in to help save a whole ownership condo that simply wasn't selling well and they bought a bunch of units to add to Club Wyndham. Ocean Walk, Panama City, SeaWatch, Emerald Grande. Are there more or perhaps the only Wyndham properties I've visited have been this type of arrangement.

I think Wynhdam inherited a lot more properties from other legacy systems and like you said, converted condos to timeshares, like they did with Towers on the Grove (which I really like BTW).

 

[Arimaas]

I guess that goes to my confusion - if you're there for the "not in the resort stuff" like the ocean, I personally feel like any "condo" has the same things if it's reasonably similarly located. I guess Wyndham Nashville loses a lot of its negatives if you just want a bed and are there to go to the Grand Ol Opry. I'm not really sure how the location changes the "condo feel" - if you VRBOd a condo just down the road, it'd have the same beach and ocean stuff for instance. I was speaking in relation to Wyndham being "just a condo" - the stuff outside the resort or condo building aren't in scope IMO.

I'm not arguing that the art deco section there isn't a destination, it is - but it has nothing to do with the resort as you point out.

I don't know. I am not a VRBO user, but I like to know when I go to a Wyndham location I am going to have some cardio equipment and some weights so at least I can get a workout in. I assume not all VRBO condos have a fitness center. I also like that if I forget my toothpaste, I can go down to the front desk and get some. To me, those little things are what makes it less of a condo and more of a resort. There's also some silly little things that we like to do as a family like the game room that they all seem to have and a fire pit, etc. While every location isn't a huge resort like Bonnet Creek, there still is more than what I imagine is in a VRBO/AirBnB. Also, when I use the pool, at least I know everyone there is on vacation, versus staying in someone's condo where some people actually live there, aren't looking for small talk, and probably are upset that there's a new round of people in their pool every week, treating it like they are on vacation, while the dude just wants to get his AM laps in before work.

 

[dayooper]

Like I said above, in the HGVC I've stayed versus the Wyndham I've stayed, I've actually been happier with Wyndham versus HGVC. HGVC Sea World stinks. Tuscany Village was OK, but nothing spectacular. HGVC Ocean 22 wasn't anything impressive either. The HGVC may have been higher end inside the unit compared but even so, I don't think by much.

Eh, these resorts aren’t my favorite. Ocean Enclave is far superior to Ocean 22. The beach is a better spot at Enclave as well. Ocean Oak is fantastic, great interiors and a wonderful spot on the beach. Tuscany is ok, but we won’t go there if we aren’t going to the theme parks. Elara had such a great location connected to the Miracle Mile Mall and right in the center of the strip. We booked a 3 bedroom and took family to Vegas and had a blast. I think it’s just a matter of preference.

 

[dioxide45]

Well, the McAlpin wasn't built by Hilton to be a TS. Neither was Elara, they took it over.

But Elera was built to be a timeshare. Purported to be the #1 timeshare in the US. Sure it was started under Westgate, but Westgate is also a timeshare system. While Hilton took it over, I don't think anyone thinks of it as anything other than timeshare. I don't know that much about McAlpin, but I just am not aware of any timeshares in HGVC where there is a mix of full time residents and timeshare guests. I don't know, perhaps it is personal preference, but it just doesn't give the properties the same vibe.

 

[jp10558]

This is where you and I disagree. We go to the HGVC locations because we want to go to those areas. We go to Myrtle Beach for the beach and activities off property. We go to Ocean Oak for the beach, restaurants and biking. We go to Chicago and Vegas for access to the city. With the exception of Chicago, we absolutely love the size of our rooms (2 and 3 bedrooms with full kitchens). When we are travelling with our family, the room is necessary for us. We don't go to the properties because of the resort amenities. I understand why someone would want to, but that's for us.

I think you misunderstand, I was referring and trying to refute dioxide45. He's the one saying he wants the resort experience / amenities / destination resort. I can and do go both ways - sometimes I want the location (McAlpin say), sometimes I want the resort (Massanutten say).

 

[jp10558]

I don't know, perhaps it is personal preference, but it just doesn't give the properties the same vibe.

Yea, I can't really argue about the vibe - I have not really ever gotten a vibe at a TS. I often don't run into other people very much. I will say, that "vibe" I think you're referencing is also one of my worries about moving towards VRBO etc - because instead of a percentage being full time, it's likely most everyone else around you could be a full time resident. And if you believe the Internet, they all mildly (or not so mildly) hate you being there on a STR.

 

[dayooper]

But Elera was built to be a timeshare. Purported to be the #1 timeshare in the US. Sure it was started under Westgate, but Westgate is also a timeshare system. While Hilton took it over, I don't think anyone thinks of it as anything other than timeshare. I don't know that much about McAlpin, but I just am not aware of any timeshares in HGVC where there is a mix of full time residents and timeshare guests. I don't know, perhaps it is personal preference, but it just doesn't give the properties the same vibe.

Anderson Ocean Club in Myrtle Beach. It’s owned by Strand Capitol and when they couldn’t sell out, they brought in HGVC. HGVC took over one half of the units and sold them as timeshares. It was so lucrative that Strand built Ocean 22, Ocean Enclave, Ocean Oak, Liberty Square and is starting construction on another Myrtle Beach resort right next to Ocean 22. HGVC manages and sells all of those.

 

[dioxide45]

Anderson Ocean Club in Myrtle Beach. It’s owned by Strand Capitol and when they couldn’t sell out, they brought in HGVC. HGVC took over one half of the units and sold them as timeshares. It was so lucrative that Strand built Ocean 22, Ocean Enclave, Ocean Oak, Liberty Square and is starting construction on another Myrtle Beach resort right next to Ocean 22. HGVC manages and sells all of those.

So are all those Strand properties part whole ownership and part timeshare or are most of them 100% timeshare?