"why would I want to use your services"?

[TUGBrian]

Got this actual email today, it made me angry at first...but as i was typing my response (it was long)...I realized it was a chance to educate.

I just wanted to share the actual content of the email to see if the community shares my initial reaction:

I wish to cancel my membership.

I was expecting to use your services in selling 2 of our units at Westgate Blue Tree Resort. When I did a search on your website looking for the going sales price for comparable units, only 1 unit was returned for Westgate Blue Tree Resort. The asking price was $100 with maintenance fee of $291.

I go onto other sites like (the actual link provided i have removed, but just insert any common upfront fee resale site name here ) and find 30 units for sale starting at $3500 up to $9500.

Why would I want to use your services?

 

[vacationhopeful]

Because the other units will never sell but the website will collect advertising fees for several years?

Good thing they did not find out nickname for Westgate ... :ignore:

 

[Ty1on]

Got this actual email today, it made me angry at first...but as i was typing my response (it was long)...I realized it was a chance to educate.

I just wanted to share the actual content of the email to see if the community shares my initial reaction:

When someone gets a delusional idea in their mind, such as the value of their timeshare, that delusion can be unbreakable.

 

[TUGBrian]

its just quite rare that someone has this particular reaction....usually the opposite is true nearly 99.99999% of the time.

folks are grateful that they found us BEFORE falling for the ridiculous upfront fee price estimates...and discovering their timeshare can only realistically sell for a fraction of those ridiculous estimates either convinces them to hang on to the interval (and perhaps rent it out)...or at the very least avoid the mutil hundred dollar upfront fee mistake!

 

[Jason245]

Sometimes it is better to wish them luck and provide them with links to all the warnings and other articles on TUG. I would also advise them to try and DeedBack instead of paying an upfront fee.

I would also give them a standard warning about upfront fee operations.

There is no Cure for Stupid.

 

[DeniseM]

I frequently hear something similar:

"I'm going to list my timeshare with (insert upfront fee company) because they will let me ask any price I want for my rental, and I'm going to rent my studio for $3,500."

Right…..

Honestly, Brian - with someone like that, I'd just let them walk. They will only figure it out one way - the school of hard knocks.

 

[David M]

... There is no Cure for Stupid.

I beg to differ

 

[TUGBrian]

eh, its always worth trying at least....think of how much they will love TUG once they discover the actual truth....thats a good thing.

sadly if they just go off and pay the huge upfront fee, they are never likely to return after ignoring the advice provided to begin with. I certainly prefer the former outcome!

 

[vacationhopeful]

Any different than a mother who believes her child is perfect verses being a con artist?

Almost every timeshare owner today under the age of 75 knows what the internet is. And either friends or relatives buy stuff for them online (like clothes).

Under the age of 70, they have brought or at least looked at stuff on eBay.

Under the age of 65, they know how "Google" works.

Under the age of 60, they used the internet for work, clubs, grandkids and vacation playing.

Dang, my 90 yo aunt uses or KNOWS about all the above ... on her smart Apple phone or her Kindle.

 

[TUGBrian]

and yet, timeshare retail sales are in the billions of dollars every year!

 

[Egret1986]

That is the core of TUG...to educate.

Got this actual email today, it made me angry at first...but as i was typing my response (it was long)...I realized it was a chance to educate.

I just wanted to share the actual content of the email to see if the community shares my initial reaction:

It's a shame they didn't take the time to educate themselves once they found TUG.

Glad to hear that you took the opportunity to try to educate. That person may be so bull-headed that they will not open their mind up to allow the penetration of some good information from this terrible thing called TUG.

 

[DaveNV]

Brian, my brother is a smart man who fully understands the value of his hard-earned dollar, and loves to save money everywhere he possibly can. And yet, not once, not twice, but THREE times he's purchased a timeshare from a Developer.

If he'd fallen victim to fast-talking sales weasels without knowing any better, I could understand things. But after he bought his first one (a full-freight Mexican deal in Cabo), he invited us to join he and his wife when they used it the first time. I came home, decided I liked the idea of timesharing - I found Tug, started buying resale, and life was good. I took HIM along to share my $1 timeshares several times. We had "the talk" about the resale market, and all the blah blah blah that goes with it. What did he do? Bought his SECOND timeshare - from the developer. (Something in Las Vegas.)

Not to be outdone, after I bought my sixth or seventh $1 eBay resale, and we had another conversation where he asked, "You're going WHERE???" on an exchange of one of my bargains, he reluctantly had to go back to his Cabo unit because he couldn't get any value from an exchange for it. And he bought AGAIN! (Something about combining the first with the third, and deeding back the second one, or something. I don't ask questions.)

He must have spent more than $30K by now. My total out-of-pocket for everything I've ever bought timeshare-wise, is probably less than $5K. I'm shocked he'd fall again and again, and he has no excuse. He just says it seemed like a good thing at the time.

I love my brother a lot, but sometimes I want to get him in a headlock, punch him in the head a few times, and shake the dickens out of him while shouting, "Wake the hell up!!!"

Dave

 

[silentg]

We understood the concept of timeshares from day one. It is not a real estate investment, it is buying a vacation and using it to exchange or stay at every year. That person puts the value of his timeshare at how much money and not how much time he spent. We have friends that think they can sell their timeshare at a profit. Since they bought it long ago and put money into it each year ( maintenance fee) never exchange, but have rented it successfully. It fell on deaf ears when I said the value was in the time they have enjoyed vacationing there. They are planning to sell it at some point which is too bad because they enjoy going there still.
Silentg

 

[taterhed]

Brings to mind:

You can lead a horse to water....
but, that ungrateful, stubborn, irritating...er, sorry (I had horses)
;you simply can't make them drink.

Of course, you do have to continue to pay the maintenance and upkeep of the da*n things.

Horses. Geeze.

:deadhorse:

 

[glmyers]

I frequently hear something similar:

"I'm going to list my timeshare with (insert upfront fee company) because they will let me ask any price I want for my rental, and I'm going to rent my studio for $3,500."

Right…..

Honestly, Brian - with someone like that, I'd just let them walk. They will only figure it out one way - the school of hard knocks.

I could not agree more with those sentiments.

 

[theo]

Got this actual email today, it made me angry at first...<snip>

Brian, don't take personally someone else's complete lack of knowledge. It's either innocence, ignorance, or displaced frustration at slowly but inevitably discovering that the Westgate ownership with which they now seek to part company is essentially worthless, despite any pie-in-the-sky and unrealistic "asking prices" seen elsewhere.

The complainant will be even more unhappy to ultimately learn that they will likely have to pay closing costs and transfer fee (and maybe a year or two of advance maintenance fees as well) out of their own pocket just to find a recipient willing to take that particular albatross for free. That's certainly not TUG's fault --- it's simply the harsh reality of the "value" (or more precisely, the lack thereof) of a Westgate product in the resale market. Complainant will (...maybe) figure that out, eventually.

 

[palmtree7339]

Florida Timeshare Owners Group's Endorsement Of TUG's Efforts To Advise Members.

its just quite rare that someone has this particular reaction....usually the opposite is true nearly 99.99999% of the time.

folks are grateful that they found us BEFORE falling for the ridiculous upfront fee price estimates...and discovering their timeshare can only realistically sell for a fraction of those ridiculous estimates either convinces them to hang on to the interval (and perhaps rent it out)...or at the very least avoid the mutil hundred dollar upfront fee mistake!

The Florida Timeshare Owners Group agrees with Brian's assessment, as stated in post #4. The FTOG membership has consistently used the TUG Marketplace, in order to both buy and sell timeshare units, without the inflated prices that developers still continue to charge, the up-front outlandish advertising fees by the numerous timeshare scammers, and the fraudulent sales practices that are common when dealing with disreputable resort developers and resale companies, many operating without a bona-fide real estate brokers license, and then do nothing but promise to find you a buyer, but instead pocket the fee charged to you, and swiftly disappear into thin air.

This has continued to be a tragic situation, now endemic within the timeshare industry, and still remains crying out for stiffer legislative regulations, nationally, in order to protect all present and future timeshare consumers.

A final personal comment/opinion:

Any timeshare sales operation that states that they are endorsed by the American Resort Developers Assn., (ARDA), is, in our Group's opinion, of no significant value, as ARDA is clearly in concert with the goal of protecting only the timeshare resort developers, and certainly is not working primarily on behalf of the timeshare owner/consumer. So, beware of anyone who solicits you, claiming that they are endorsed by ARDA. ARDA continues to be a major part of the immense problem, as stated above, and offers no consumer-oriented solutions to our industry's current debacle. Witness their anti-consumer support for legislation recently passed this year, here in Florida. They succeeded in supporting timeshare resort developers personal interests, at the expense of the owners of timeshare property here in Florida.

Many thanks for the opportunity to participate on this subject within the TUG Forum.

Frank Debar, Chairman
Florida Timeshare Owners Group
Website: www.tsownersgroup.com

 

[winbett]

I am so happy I found TUG

I purchased my first time share from West-gate in the early 80's over a three year period negotiating, financing, trade up, all in 10,900 for a two bedroom every year which I used faithfully every year like my own. I saw others pay upwards of 25000 for same thing, "so very happy",

I later picked up an EOY in Canada on deal from my niece to help her get out of for 8600, she paid 17,900 and paid off when they bought there first house by adding to their mortgage, as they had listed with one of the upfront deals with an escape clause for selling yourself which they never expect , got her 800 dollar listing fee back.

Then later i got another Florida property for 100.00 from a friend of mine whose new wife and her mother bought 5 years before for 17,900 and never used, no problem I used or rented them for over 1000 per week loved the cheap deals, Only problem we got assessed for 3000.00 plus the first year for renovations and upgrades, (yes they can do that) plus the rental market dropped off, for some reason someone decided high end weeks were better rented for getaways at 800 plus was better than letting go on exchange, also the practice of not assigning units until your arrival allowed the resorts to rent that no show, no exchange time for their benefit.

Fast forward to to-day, sold the west-gate for 100, happiest day of my life as she also paid 700 for a banked week, west-gate tried to crush the deal and steel it back for 100 without taking the banked week, however after me kicking and screaming plus I don't think they had all their crooked clauses in their contracts in the early 80's let the deal go through. (net loss 11700 counting unused weeks)

Found a chap in Canada through TUG that took the other Florida week for free, I only had to pay to register deed, glad he could use. net loss 3500 inc unused weeks)

I am presently giving back the Canadian week for a small deed cost of 300 back to the resort, payable only after they agree to deal. (net loss 4000.00)

Now we had some great vacations, in 1990 we took 13 weeks vacation for friends and family, some getaways at 99.00 each, including two trades into Hawaii so I am not complaining, but it is not a free lunch or any type of investment, it is a real vacation cost with restrictions. Look to TUG for support and advise, I think there is more experience on this site that anywhere else on the internet in regards to time shares.

Winston Brown

 

[juri57]

Selling

I own two time shares only because I fell for it from a fast salesperson thinking it a good idea. What is wrong with timeshares? Well, the maintenance fees. I pay $650.00 for one (1BR) and $806.00 for the other (2BR lockout) and I am locked into it no matter what. What can I do otherwise? Recently my wife and I spent six weeks in Croatia and Northern Italy. In Croatia we paid between 20.00 and 30.00 Euros per night at Bed & Breakfasts and very nice ones at that equivalent to our one bedroom timeshare. That calculates to under $300.00 per week at the then exchange rate. In Italy we stayed at a old villa for 18 Euros per night and at an AgriTourismo near Assisi for 350 Euros for a one bedroom apartment. On the Amalfi coast we paid 275.00 Euros for the week.

To exchange through RCI it would have cost us $210.00 RCI fee plus the maintenance fee for our resort. That is more than twice what we paid for comparable stay providing there is availability where we want to stay. We have used our time share from time to time and enjoyed it but if I had to do it over again, I would not buy into a time share not even for a dollar. As I demonstrated I can travel for half the price of the maintenance fees at comparable units. Deals can be found with just a little search on the internet.

Glad to have found TUG. Lot of good information and a chance to rent/sell the timeshares we have.

 

[LannyPC]

I agree with you nearly 100%.. You are explaining clearly why so many people are wanting to dump their TSs and why so many TSs are selling for a dollar.

But keep in mind the title of this thread. It's about a TUG member complaining that TUG's services are inefficient because many people are listing their TSs for sale/rent at about market value rather than for thousands of dollars above market value.

Sadly, the OP is being delusional and is setting himself up for disappointment and possibly a scam.

 

[Passepartout]

Sure, we'd all love to be able to get some large percentage of developer prices for our TSs after we've used them as much as we wish. But the reality is that that isn't going to happen. Not now. Not ever. So be it.

Jim

 

[Panina]

Unfortunately, he will learn the hard way. One day he will realize you are the good guy. He will be back.

 

[TUGBrian]

A positive update and end to the story, received an email earlier today saying that my reply made sense, and after looking into the "other company" he changed his mind and moved forward with his TUG membership =)

never too late to give someone a chance to learn the truth!

 

[Egret1986]

You made the right choice to educate. Another one who now has more knowledge.

It's a shame they didn't take the time to educate themselves once they found TUG.

Glad to hear that you took the opportunity to try to educate. That person may be so bull-headed that they will not open their mind up to allow the penetration of some good information from this terrible thing called TUG.

A positive update and end to the story, received an email earlier today saying that my reply made sense, and after looking into the "other company" he changed his mind and moved forward with his TUG membership =)

never too late to give someone a chance to learn the truth!

I'm glad you took the approach that you did and that this person was open-minded enough to receive "the truth!"

 

[e.bram]

I am waiting for another post from the OP asking how to get a refund for the upfront charge from SMTN or the like!