Why aren’t Wastegate owners happy?

[timeos2]

Former owner? I wish!

Oddly enough, it's always the same former Westgate owners who start these anti-Westgate threads. What a lot of wasted energy over age old grudges.

I started it. I have been an owner since 1995. Unhappy with Wastegate since approximately 1999. And things just continue to get worse. The lucky ones are those that decided to get out even if they gave it away. We still manage to squeeze value out through RCI Points, although how much longer that will be the case is a big question mark. My guess is right now I'd have a tough time selling even at the low, resale price I purchased at. Heaven help those that bought from the Kings Weasels direct as they stand to lose tens of thousands. At least I've only got a couple grand "invested" plus the annual fees so, for now, I'd rather speak as a front line owner than to be "blown off" as some disgruntled former owner with an axe to grind. What I post is first hand experience, first hand knowledge of the worst timeshare organization I know of. And that isn't easy to accomplish as timeshare in general is looked at as a sleazy and corrupt game. Wastegate may very well be one of the original sources for those labels as they fit Wastegate to a tee.

Why anyone chooses to defend Wastegate is the really perplexing question. Perhaps they just haven't seen the true colors yet.

 

[AwayWeGo]

A Continuing Saga ?

What a lot of wasted energy over age old grudges.

Shux, I thought it was an ongoing, up-to-date set of gripes, not just some old, outdated grudge left over from years gone by. Plus, it's a consistent story related by some of TUG-BBS's solidest citizens. I'd be a doofus to discount it all -- well, a bigger doofus than I already am, I mean.

But after reading so much of the continuing saga right here on TUG-BBS, I have to acknowledge that it is only being honest when I add not getting tangled up with WestGate to my long string of timeshare good luck.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Transit]

Westgate Lakes photos

Ok so i'm not an owner and cannot discuss the internal workings of how Westgate operates however I did stay at Westgate lakes 3 bedroom last summer and had a great time. Here are some PICTURES.....It was not the best TS I've stayed in but certainly nice with lots to do there.

 

[AwayWeGo]

O. K., That (Mostly) Explains It.

I'd rather speak as a front line owner than to be "blown off" as some disgruntled former owner with an axe to grind. What I post is first hand experience, first hand knowledge of the worst timeshare organization I know of. And that isn't easy to accomplish as timeshare in general is looked at as a sleazy and corrupt game. Wastegate may very well be one of the original sources for those labels as they fit Wastegate to a tee.

OK, I guess I can semi-understand why you prefer being inside the tent & spitting out rather than stepping outside the tent & spitting in.

But I feel semi-certain that under similar circumstances I would bail out bigtime myself, even though that would surely mean holding my peace thenceforward to avoid coming off as a disgruntled ex-owner

Life is too short to tolerate bad timeshares.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Polly Metallic]

While I agree that Seigal (sp?) is not a good person, and management has some issues, the resorts are nice. Not the best you have ever stayed at nice, but nice: as in TUG ratings of 7s and 8s nice. Many owners never encounter some of the gripes that are brought up here. Many owners are happy with their ownerships. I dare say probaby the majority are content. But you would never know it if you hang out on TUG, as no opportunity to slam Westgate is overlooked.

I have no problem with people not liking Westgate, or any other resort or resort chain. The part I most object to is the venomous language and insulting terms used. I think its in poor taste, its rude to the owners who own at Westgate and may actually like their resorts. The level of hatred and vengence seems out of all proportion to the complaints that have been raised. If I didn't like a resort I would calmly and politely note my objections. I wouldn't come on the board and call the resort a flea-ridden, slime-filled ghetto with no redeming features whatsoever, and I wouldn't look for every glimmer of an opportunity to repeat those insults over and over and over. There is no resort that is that bad, and if it was, it would not trade with II, RCI and SFX.

 

[Transit]

While I agree that Seigal (sp?) is not a good person, and management has some issues, the resorts are nice. Not the best you have ever stayed at nice, but nice: as in TUG ratings of 7s and 8s nice. Many owners never encounter some of the gripes that are brought up here. Many owners are happy with their ownerships. I dare say probaby the majority are content. But you would never know it if you hang out on TUG, as no opportunity to slam Westgate is overlooked.

I have no problem with people not liking Westgate, or any other resort or resort chain. The part I most object to is the venomous language and insulting terms used. I think its in poor taste, its rude to the owners who own at Westgate and may actually like their resorts. The level of hatred and vengence seems out of all proportion to the complaints that have been raised. If I didn't like a resort I would calmly and politely note my objections. I wouldn't come on the board and call the resort a flea-ridden, slime-filled ghetto with no redeming features whatsoever, and I wouldn't look for every glimmer of an opportunity to repeat those insults over and over and over. There is no resort that is that bad, and if it was, it would not trade with II, RCI and SFX.

I wouldn't take anything personal from remarks made about Westgate some hate it some love it.Those remarks are not aimed at you personaly.Allowing everyone to share their opinions good or bad makes for interesting disscussion and point of veiws.It wouldn't be a great board if everyone just patted themselves on the back like DIS boards.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Allowing everyone to share their opinions good or bad makes for interesting disscussion and point of veiws.It wouldn't be a great board if everyone just patted themselves on the back like DIS boards.

At least you deserve a clap from me

 

[AwayWeGo]

Zen.

At least you deserve a clap from me

What is the sound of 1 hand clapping ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[frenchieinme]

Thread statement flawed at onset...

There is an active thread elsewhere on the Board called "Why aren’t Maui Westin owners happy?". While many resorts, even some of the very best by any measure, have pockets of dissatisfied owners for one reason or another, usually you'll find the majority like what they own, are relatively protective of their resort(s) (look at some of the old OLCC threads for proof of that) and feel they get a fair value out of what they own.

But there is at least one glaring exception to that generalized statement. The infamous Wastegate group.

Why aren't Wastegate owners happy? Because it's not a good operation and the problems start at the very top. It is unique for such a large resort system to be so nearly universally despised yet still be successful. Testimony to the gullibility of the general public and the value of high pressure sales to uninformed buyers. By the time they discover the ugly truth they are in the system with very very expensive lessons learned the only way out.

This whole thread is flawed from its onset statement WHY AREN'T WASTEGATE OWNERS HAPPAY? This supposition precludes the fact owners are not happy which is totally false. Maybe if the thread would have been WHY AREN'T SOME WESTGATE OWNERS HAPPY---then it would be more accurate. Making it sound as if all owners or even the larger number of owners are unhappy is not doing the disgruntled ones service. If their way of balancing a debate were as factual as claimed, then certainly the ugly mistreatment would manisfest itself in such huge numbers which would do justice to the large volume of owners and guests who vacation at just one of its locations where I own at Westgate Lakes. With 25 bldgs on average with 6 levels on average with 8 units pre level on average with 6 A-B units per floor with 3 to 4 guests per unit for just for 1 week translates into a possible 10,000 guests per week (25x6x8x2x4=potentially a near 10,000 guests if fully occupied) x 52 weeks = over 500,000+ and then take in consideration Westgate has 24 such resorts (although smaller in scale) which in totality accounts for a potential (let us summize for the sake of argument the others are half the size of Westgate Lakes) amount of total guest if fully occupied of over 3,000,000. Let's now cut this in half again making for a total of 1.5 million Westgate guests for a given year.

Now with a half-full glass view of toatal guest being 1.5 million and a full glass point of view of 5 million +, there would have to be the greatest of clamor against Westgate Resorts which would cause a congretional inquiry on the timeshare industry (Westgate at the top of the list) which would make the oil industry's congressional inquiry pale when compared side by side.

Let's keep this in perspective. Are there disgruntled people with negative experiences with their Westgate vacation or treatment? OF COURSE. The numbers? Large enough to warrant some to be vocal on internet boards. Howevr, in the balance of things one needs to keep in mind how many people vacation at Westgate resorts and then compare that to the not too positive posts (which is their right and I support their right to do just that) and then and only then does one get the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say.

From the sound of the posts of some of these people who were wronged, the scars of hurt are deep and getting deeper. That's too bad as our life is such a short time on earth. I for one can not see myself holding on to such hurt for such a long period of time. But then again, that's me. JMHO of course.

frenchieinme

 

[timeos2]

The first complaints read just like the last. Yet 20 years have passed

Search Google for Westgate Resorts Complaints and you'll find over 59,000. And those are just the unique ones. Look at the threads and many have 20 or more - some have hundreds - tales of Westgate woes. It's owners, guests and even those that managed to get away without buying into the nightmare yet still take the time and effort to post warnings.

Try the same thing with Westgate Resort Compliments - a measly 8,900. With 3/4 of those being hotel listings or offers trying to sell Westgate. Few actual positive owner/guest comments.

As I've said before the resorts themselves are OK unless you get stuck in a really old section or unit. Certainly the owners are not to blame for the mess that is WG - they are held virtually powerless by the King and his sales weasels. So there are going to be plenty of people who come in for a week, find an OK place and leave - some may even miss the joys of the hard sell if they are pros. An owner may pay his fee, use their week and, as long as they play by the Kings rules and pay the demanded ransoms, er, fees, not be hassled. But that doesn't change the fact that the organization and operation of the Kings Empire is one that is designed to fleece the buyers, enrich the King, always push sales and hold on at all costs to total control. And they are so good at it that many don't even realize they've been taken for years. But at some point they will. Then they can think back to these warning messages. You can't say you weren't informed. The first postings date to the early 90's and they continue right up to tonight. I'd say that fairly well proves its a corporate plan of operation not a mistake or a one sales weasel or resort operation gone wrong thing, wouldn't you?

 

[frenchieinme]

As I've said before the resorts themselves are OK unless you get stuck in a really old section or unit. Certainly the owners are not to blame for the mess that is WG - they are held virtually powerless by the King and his sales weasels.

That really has not been coming out in your informing people about what you refer as Wastegate. Wastegate would lead one to believe the resorts themselves are NOT OK.

As for who buys or exchanges with a Westgate resort, I am sure they are not considering the lack of morals its CEO has. Neither do I when I go to a Hilton timeshare or other property. When I do go to a Hilton location, I am not justifying Paris'loose life style. I am going there to rest and relax just like Westgate owners are going to a Westgate resort---to relax and rest.

What Mr. Segal does on his own time is his business. As long as the Westgate resorts keep giving me a 1st class location where my family, friends and guests get treated like royalty, what can I say? Yes, maybe one day this may change. It hasn't yet in going on 10 years and it hasn't for many. many people who have owned at Westgate Lakes since in inception. These people as I talk with them keep reiterating the fact they have been treated well and continue to be treated as such after over 15 years of fine vacations.

If there would be a complaint voiced it is with the maint/tax chgs being high. Then again I just wrote my check for my city's soon to be due property taxes which are due every 6 months. What is the major complaint of citizens hereabouts also? High taxes!!!

frenchieinme

 

[westgatebob]

I just ran across this thread. I agree with most of you about most timeshare resorts. The resorts themselves are not bad, its the staff that operates them. Much more could go into treating the owners much much better. What I believe they do, is do what they can to get you to buy. Once you do they can treat you however they want since you have nothing you really can do about it. Complain? Falls on deaf ears. I actually created a website dedicated to Westgate. http://www.timeshareowners.info I orginally used westgate's name and got sued by them. So I had to change domain names. The site was strictly to gripe about Westgate, but has changed to give anyone potentially buying or vacationing there all the info they would need. Check it out and let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[tombo]

I appreciate the Westgate owners bringing up these complaints. If the first thread years ago was the last thread on the subject, many new TUGGERs like myself wouldn't have been warned. I almost made a mistake at the Smokey Mountains Westgate (resale of course), but was saved by TUG owner's complaints.

My former secretary and her mother weren't so lucky. She was promised the moon but ended up with a 2 bed room that she couldn't use during the summer, nor the fall leaf change season, or during Christmas or new years. For that "prime" week they paid 18,000. She is a widow and her mother is also a widow. After finding out that they couldn't book a week they wanted to use, they called the resort mgt and asked if they would buy it back from them for a reasonable price. Westgate said they didn't buy weeks back. The elderly ladies paid monthly payments for 2 years while advertising it for sale. They finally got an offer for $3000 and of course Westgate claimed it using ROFR. Then I am not sure what she was talking about but she said Westgate took part of the $3000, so they didn't even get all of the sale price.

Out of all of TUG I have never seen so many owners who didn't like the resort they purchased. New people join TUG all the time and rehashing these problems could save a new member like me from making a bad mistake.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Out of all of TUG I have never seen so many owners who didn't like the resort they purchased. New people join TUG all the time and rehashing these problems could save a new member like me from making a bad mistake.

Without rehashing the same old topic again.

I am a HAPPY Westgate Park City owner (resale) and it is an amazing property and great value for skiing.

This single property may be the single exception to the "Westgate sucks" mantra that is spoken here.

I have never stayed at any other Westgate property, thus the only Westgate experience I have is based upon my 99% satisfaction with Westgate Park City location.

 

[AwayWeGo]

How R. O. F. R. Works & What R. O. F. R. Does.

They finally got an offer for $3000 and of course Westgate claimed it using ROFR. Then I am not sure what she was talking about but she said Westgate took part of the $3000, so they didn't even get all of the sale price.

Not sure, but perhaps WestGate tacks on a fee for administering ROFR, or maybe they siphon off some money by cutting themselves in for a commission on the sale of the unit on which they invoke ROFR -- maybe both.

Just 1 more illustration -- as if any more were needed -- that . . .

(A) ROFR does not prop up resale values. All it does is it make it so that only the timeshare company gets to buy the resale bargains.

&

(B) ROFR = ROFL

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[timeos2]

It's never safe if Wastegate is involved

Without rehashing the same old topic again.

I am a HAPPY Westgate Park City owner (resale) and it is an amazing property and great value for skiing.

This single property may be the single exception to the "Westgate sucks" mantra that is spoken here.

I have never stayed at any other Westgate property, thus the only Westgate experience I have is based upon my 99% satisfaction with Westgate Park City location.

I went nearly 6 years thinking Wastegate was OK but once the problems started it was a hail storm, hurricane and tornado all in one. Dangerous to think your resort will be the only one somehow left alone by the devious, conniving weasels of Wastegate. They may be plotting owner negative actions right now but you'll only know when they spring them on you. Enjoy it while you can as I'll bet they will screw it up eventually.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I went nearly 6 years thinking Wastegate was OK but once the problems started it was a hail storm, hurricane and tornado all in one. Dangerous to think your resort will be the only one somehow left alone by the devious, conniving weasels of Wastegate. They may be plotting owner negative actions right now but you'll only know when they spring them on you. Enjoy it while you can as I'll bet they will screw it up eventually.

Perhaps the sky will fall sometime in the near future...however, every year that I am a satisfied owner, the closer it gets to becoming a moot issue as I would have saved so much money vs paying cash, that when I sell it, I should only have happy memories and extra cash in my pocket. The current resale rices are already above what I paid.

I was used to paying $4,000 - $5,000 per week to go skiing and now my payments are under $1,000.

Either way, I anticipate selling most of my timeshares in the near future as I now have 3 weeks of Destination Club travel with High Country Club and those properties are FAR superior to any timeshare, that it is not even worth the time debating the timeshare vs destination club issue anymore.

 

[Dave M]

....those properties are FAR superior to any timeshare, that it is not even worth the time debating the timeshare vs destination club issue anymore.

Why put down timeshares versus just being silent on the issue?

I'll grant that your HCC properties are great. But the locations are still too few to cover the planet. Thus, isn't it possible that you might someday want to travel to places where HCC doesn't have a property?

I liken the issue to timeshares versus hotels. I definitely prefer the spaciousness of a timeshare over that of a hotel room. But there are some places (especially most big cities) I visit that don't have timeshares. Thus, I still stay in hotels, too.

As much as I like my timeshares (and exchanges for them), I'm not about to dismiss hotels or belittle those who either prefer them to timeshares or believe they can't afford timeshares. How about giving those of us who prefer timeshares or can't afford a destination club membership the same respect and consideration?

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I am a satisfied owner.

Either way, I anticipate selling most of my timeshares in the near future as I now have 3 weeks of Destination Club travel with High Country Club and those properties are FAR superior to any timeshare

The key words are underlined in my above post in case there is a misunderstanding.

Conclusion:
1. Since 2001, I have really enjoyed my timeshares
2. Since 2006, I have enjoyed my Destination Club experience even more
3. Perhaps in 2009, there will even be a better travel option and I will post about it then

Why put down timeshares versus just being silent on the issue?

How about giving those of us who prefer timeshares or can't afford a destination club membership the same respect and consideration?

There must be a full moon out or something....but I will attempt to answer those questions.

Why should I (or anyone else) be silent on a topic of interest? I have been very active in this thread and I am not hijacking this thread and changing topics as I think it is relevant that if I ever sell my Westgate timeshare it would be because I have a better alternative (not because I am UNHAPPY with Westgate). I have not put down timeshares (in fact, I am about the only one here defending Westgate).

Also, this thread is about Why aren't Westgate owners happy and I have posted at least 4-5 posts about why "I am actually HAPPY with Westgate"

Then someone posted that some day in the future Westgate will screw me over (perhaps) and my reply is fine, but I will still look back on my HAPPY experiences with Westgate as they have saved me a ton of money and their Park City property is awesome.

Yes, I inserted a comment about selling Westgate in favor of HCC, but that was a small part of the post. My current travel pattern is to maximize both timeshares and destination clubs and even an occasional hotel or two.

As far as cost, HCC is not a rich-man's club as their fees are actually LOWER than MANY Timeshares (especially the new Marriott's and even certain DVC).

 

[tombo]

Destination club definition: You pay money so some real estate guys in Colorado can buy property that they now own with your money. You don't own anything, you buy it for them and they own it courtesy of your investment. The best part is you have to pay to rent the properties that you helped the guys in Colorado buy with your money. What a deal!

Often DC guys feel they must come to the timeshare discussions and demean timeshares by comparing them as an inferior destination when compared to DC's trying to recruit new members in the pyramid scheme (more members means we get more locations).

I personally don't need 3 or 4 bed rooms for my family as the kids are grown and even if they travel with us a 2 bed room has plenty of room. I have never planned a vacation around how big my room was going to be or how nicely it is decorated. I plan my vacations based on destination, and location of the resort at my destination. Very few DC locations are on the beach, most don't even have a view of the ocean, and many aren't even within an easy walk of the beach. I would rather "rough it" in a 2 bed room ocean front timeshare unit in Hawaii, watching whales from my lanai while I drink coffee, than to have to drive to the beach from my 4 bed room luxurious house with a view of other houses.

I also wouldn't contribute any money to an organization that won't let you rent out your weeks you paid for, or even let a family member stay in it if you couldn't use the week because of conflict of plans or just because you wanted to give the week to a friend or family member as a gift. You can't even leave your membership to your kids unless you pay a lot of extra money when you join.

This is a timeshare thread and there are DC threads to espouse the great benefits of membership. I won't post about timeshares on those threads if the DC people refrain from telling us on our site that they have a better deal, with better accomodations. Remember the name of this web site is TIMESHARE Users group.

DC's are unregulated by the government, and the first DC folded leaving many owners out a lot of money. Since there is no government regulation the owners can do anything they want with their properties because they own it and members only rent it.I don't like the DC model, the prices, the risk of having the whole DC go out of business or file bankruptcy leaving you with nothing, or the rules that come with membership, and I wouldn't join if the fee was $10,000. I like to own what I buy.

I will be glad to constantly discuss my opinions on the DC section if the same continues to be done in our section. We had a deal!

PS I don't know why Tug is allowing DC's to post reviews when no one except members can stay there. No TUG members can exchange into them or even rent them. Allowing reviews is simply allowing free advertising. Are we going to start allowing new full time condos to rate their own locations a 10 with glowing reviews even though they aren't available for trade through any exchange company? Heck star allowing Hilton motels and Holiday Inn reviews. I wish TUG would remove the DC locations from the reviews as they serve no purpose for the majority of the members. Let them buy ads like all other developers.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

I think posts 43, 44, 45 and this one should be DELETED as they have NOTHING to do with the original theme of this thread. My comments from post 42 are being taken out of context (I only posted my "opinion" that I feel HCC is superior to any timeshare I have evaluated and this was only 1/3 of the total post). Read my other posts 3, 19, 32, 39, 42.

DaveM started the tangent, I responded, and tombo just wants to agitate.

This thread is about Westgate and I am a HAPPY Westgate owner (a rare breed) and I am also a Happy HCC member and Happy DVC member and Happy Marriott owner......thus, I feel I can compare and contrast them as I feel appropriate to the discussion at hand.

At least "timeos2" has constructive criticism about Westgate and King David (or is that Wastegate) but his negative Westgate experience is based upon Florida locations (not Park City like mine where I have been very pleased so far).

 

[tombo]

Originally Posted by Steamboat Bill
....those properties are FAR superior to any timeshare, that it is not even worth the time debating the timeshare vs destination club issue anymore.

I find this statement offensive as a timeshare owner, and out of 40 something posts on this thread nothing was hinted at or mentioned about DC's until Bill (who does it often) brought up DC's by touting them as so far superior to timeshares that it isn't worth debating.

I disagree, thus the debate.

TUG still does need to remove the reviews posted by the DC members which serve no purpose for any TUG member who has not joined or considering joining a DC. We can't stay at their locations under any circumstances.

PS I take offense to Bill saying I only want to agitate. Please read any of my posts on this or any other thread and see if I agitate. I try to contribute and give my advice and opinions in a helpful manner. I feel like that is a personal attack on me from Bill and I am especially offended that the attack came from a moderator.

 

[Dave M]

To take this offline, I am sending you a PM, with a copy to Brian.

 

[TUGBrian]

enough bickering.

any comments after this post that dont related directly to the topic at hand will be removed and the thread will be closed.

 

[JLB]

I believe the topic at hand is Why Aren't WG Owners Happy. A side-topic, but related, appears to be Why Do The Same WG Owners Keep Posting?

I hope I am not breaching anything in attempting to bring this thread back on track.

To bring it back into focus, we were unhappy because of the slime, sleaze, scum and scam surrounding the operation, which at the time we just sensed, but because it kept reaching deeper into our pockets we felt we had to do something about.

Once our suspicions were confirmed by the thousands and thousands of complaints by similar unhappy WGers, information posted on the Internet concerning Mr. S's other endeavors appearing to be similarly slimey, sleazey, scammy and scummy, and recently further confirmed by the courage of one woman who has personally fought the slime, sleaze, scam and scum, and been vicdicated in her efforts by a jury of her peers (would that be, like, 6 women who also have been groped, fondled, pinned against a wall, and solicited into protitution?)

If Ms. Meyers can have the courage to take on Mr. S and WG, I certainly can have the courage to tell others of her plight.

When I post, I am talking about really old stuff, medium old stuff, and brand new stuff, since the really old stuff and medium old is still going on.

For me it's as simple as: As long some post here encouraging others to involve themselves in the WG mess, I feel an obligation to warn against it, to direct folks to the facts.