Why aren’t Maui Westin owners happy?

[thinze3]

Personally, though I realize it's a long shot, I would rather snatch a Westin than a Marriott. We have already been to the Marriott once before and would like to go back but would rather try the Westin(s).

I have only read good things about the Westin resort(s) in maui and Lord knows we LOVE those Heavenly beds.

*Exclaimer
One of those new Maui Lahaina units would be awfully enticing if pitted against either of the Westins.

 

[Time2Ponder]

Oh I had a knock down, drag out fight, where I won the argument (he agreed that the 12 month reservation systems are identical). I could not dispute the 33% return rate since I'm not into Starwood. However, that 33% return rate makes all the difference in making leisurely reservations versus the Marriott where 80% of the owners there return EVERY year and getting into Maui is near impossible.

And yes I mean WKORV, the terminology you guys use.

I still find it hard to believe, and told the sales manager, that only 33% of the owners return - this makes no sense at all.

However, the sales manager there also is a Park Plaza owner in Park City, UT like we are so I didn't want to nail him to the wall - I know I'm a softy.

P.S.
The sales manager said he was a former Marriott salesrep - I find that hard to believe because he thought that ANY Marriott owner could call in, 12 months to the second, (or 13 with multiple week ownership) and book the Maui Ocean Club. That is the reason he was using to say that their reservation system was superior to Marriott's - totally false.

Maybe he was using the 33% figure as a way of selling Starwood's purported flexibility? That's the only thing I can think of. Before purchasing (resale) at WKORV, we looked into the new Lahaina Villas over at Marriott (yep, we were willing to fork over $$ to the developer because they seemed superior to the older villas). However, we ultimately decided on WKORV because we liked the W/D, fridge, dishwasher, and stovetop in the studio portion. The one thing going against Starwood is that Marriott does have many more properties in its portfolio. So, maybe if you're a Starwood salesperson trying to make a sale, you mention that lots of owners seem to trade out into other Starwood properties, or use their points conversions, or.... I dunno. It's twisted, but it's the only thing I can think of.

In any case, I'm not sure I'd trust that guy's knowledge anyway, since he seemed pretty ignorant about Marriott's reservation system (which even I knew about -- 13-month multi-advantage and all -- from taking the tour).

At the end of the day, he's just a TS salesdude trying to make a sale....

 

[ciscogizmo1]

I own both Starwood and Marriotts. So far, I'm finding Starwood easier to reserve at 12 months. I own at WKORV and I don't feel the pressure of calling exactly 12 months out (but I do). Where Marriott some places fill up within minutes of the lines opening up. However, I've gotten all my Marriott reservations with no problems.

As for trading to other resorts, Marriott is DEFINITELY more flexible. I do not like the way the Starwood program is run in this regard. I like Marriotts other locations but feel very limited with the Starwood program. The locations in Starwood may be great for some people but not our family.

We have returned every year since we've owned (3 trips so far). Now, we are venturing out and visiting Princeville this year but in a one bedroom as a 2 bedroom wasn't available.

 

[mepiccolo]

We own OF Center at WKORV and we have no desire or intention to ever trade to anywhere else. We bought for the sole purpose of going to Maui and have our kids growing up having that as their yearly family vacation. Plus if we exchange we are not guaranteed an OF unit elsewhere so why would we "down" trade? For now while the kids are small we usually bring family/friends to stay in the lock-off studio unit while we are there. Maybe whether you trade or not has in some part to do with what view category you own. After all, if you own an IV at WKORV you are more likely to be happy with a trade elsewhere than if you are giving up your OF view where you own and risk getting a bad view elsewhere. It would be interesting to have the view category one owns as part of the survey you do.

 

[davidahn]

I agree

Maybe he was using the 33% figure as a way of selling Starwood's purported flexibility?...

I agree. My salesperson stated over & over that she rents her unit out for money, and that you could trade it for many weeks in other resorts.

 

[PerryM]

Sales rep speaks the truth?

A word about the sales manager’s claim that only 33% of WKORV owners use their units – this fits in perfectly with newly released numbers from Marriott:

• 30% of owners use their own home week (for personal use, use by friends/relatives or private rental), 28% exchange to another Marriott, 22% (!!!) exchange for Marriott Rewards points, 11% exchange for a non-Marriott and 9% do something else with their unit, including renting through Marriott.

It may be that only the Marriott Maui Ocean Club owners use their villas 80% of the time!

 

[bruwery]

33% doesn't seem odd to me

Let's assume for a minute that the 33% figure is accurate (I'm not saying it is, but play along).

As Perry put it, one could infer that 2/3 of the owners are unhappy with their home resort and don't want to return to it. I don't see it this way, though.

I look at it another way: Statistically, the average owner returns once every three years. The other two years he does something else with it. That doesn't seem odd to me. One of the basic tenets of timesharing is to see different places. The beauty of owning on Maui is it's a strong exchange.

If I bought at WKORV, it's extremely likely that I would use it only once in the first three years. I'd be there in year one, of course - anxious beyond words to see my purchase. The other two years I'd probably go through an exploratory phase excited to test all the great things that my friend, the salesman, told me.

In other words, I'd trade into some other nice resort within the SVO network, such as Atlantis, or St. Johns (yeah, right), or Orlando, or Arizona or several other interesting places, or deposit it with II. (Remember, the average timeshare owner doesn't realize that it's silly to trade a prime week for a week in Orlando). Alternatively, I'd rent it out for more than my maintenance fee and pocket a little bit of cash to defer a tiny portion of the upfront cost.

It would have nothing to do with whether or not I like the resort, but everything to do with the fact that it's difficult to get to Hawaii on an annual basis - unless you live on the west coast - and if I can see great resorts closer to home, or recover a percentage of my purchase cost by renting it, why not?

After the first three or four or five years, maybe I'd have seen enough of Starwood's other resorts that I'd settle down and return to WKORV most years.

WKORV is a fairly new resort, so the owners may still be in the exploratory phase I just described.

I can't draw a comparison to the 80% Marriott number that Perry tossed out there, but isn't that resort about seven years old now? Maybe their owners have passed through the exploratory phase and settled down?

I don't know any of this, of course. I'm not claiming to state any facts. I'm merely relaying what I could see myself doing if I was an owner via developer purchase.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I really have issue with the title of this thread ('Why aren't Maui Westin owners happy?') - it should be 'Is what the Starwood Salesperson told me true?' (which the answer is probably - "No" based on historic consideration). It just states a tone in the Title that is not true based on discussions here and my personal experience. I have come across few Owners that are unhappy with the Resort itself (WKORV btw, Westin Maui is a hotel south of WKORV) - their 'unhappiness' is mainly with SVO and SVN system - as well-documented here. Some - like our esteeemed Moderator DeniseM - have become disenchanted with the area as a whole due to over-building, but that really isnt a specific WKORV issue.

To make hypothetical assumptions about this 'so-called' 33% return rate was likely a salesperson trying to make an case for why the SVO/SVN is an ideal system to buy into - and to somehow translate this to Owners being unhappy - is well... just plan idiotic and looks like it is intended to imflammatory at best (IMO) - and is not unlike the 'poop' thead.

Perhaps the OP should be more aware that they are ways of asking questions or making comments (here and on other threads) that are less imflammatory and appear intended to stir up muck.

 

[Lawlar]

A Moc Owner Agrees

We own OF Center at WKORV and we have no desire or intention to ever trade to anywhere else. We bought for the sole purpose of going to Maui and have our kids growing up having that as their yearly family vacation. Plus if we exchange we are not guaranteed an OF unit elsewhere so why would we "down" trade?

If you will permit a MOC owner to express an opinion on this thread, I agree with this post. We own OF unit in the Lahaina Villa (I won't start a war over whether the Westin or MOC is best - but I will concede that you Westin owners have a better pool and better restaurants).

I agree that the joy of going there every year is what makes our TS wothwhile. Our 7 year old grandkid continually talks about Maui and how he gets to go there every year. We get to watch him enjoy Maui every January, and we will be able to pass it on to him when we are gone. We tell him now that the lockoff is his room. What is all that worth? Its priceless.

Trade for somewhere else? No way!

 

[formerhater]

I... just plan idiotic and looks like it is intended to imflammatory at best (IMO) - and is not unlike the 'poop' thead.

Now we're catching on, folks. A lot of poop is being shoveled around here to get you all worked up and it seems to be working pretty well. Don't take the bait and this board will smell alot better...

 

[PerryM]

To each his/her own...

Everyone has a different way of using timeshares for vacations. Some, like me, delight in staying at $70k timeshares for just an outlay of 1/10 of that. Some look at timeshares as a second home and plan to use it year after year. Many buy timeshares to basically go different places year after year. For every vacation style there is a timeshare that address it.

My original reason for posting in the Starwood forum was to try to understand what make you guys tick. I don’t own a Starwood and rather doubt I ever will – I don’t like chocolate ice cream either, don’t take any of this personally.

From our 2 weeks in Maui and after touring the MOC and WKORV here are my thought:

1) MOC owners are in love with their resort and 80% of them return year after year

2) WKORV owners are in love with the Starwood system and return but once every 3 years

I still find it hard to believe that folks spending $70k for a plain-Jane week only come back every third year but I do believe the Sales Manager at WKROV now. Making reservations at WKROV are much much easier than at MOC.

My task, as the guy who sneaks into MOC all the time with a cheap timeshare is how to do the same thing at WKORV. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your input.

 

[djp]

buy a cheap Sheraton Desert Oasis Week or another inexpensive starwood week, Starwood has a 3 day preference in II where only other starwood weeks will pull Starwood properties. This year I could pull a 2br in Harborside and a 2br at WKORV using my 1br summer week at Sheraton Mountain Vista that I paid $1000 for.

 

[wfleish]

buy a cheap Sheraton Desert Oasis Week or another inexpensive starwood week, Starwood has a 3 day preference in II where only other starwood weeks will pull Starwood properties. This year I could pull a 2br in Harborside and a 2br at WKORV using my 1br summer week at Sheraton Mountain Vista that I paid $1000 for.

How easy is this to do? If I could have reasonable certainty that I could get President's Week at either Westin Kaanapali property, then this would seem like a great value.

 

[DeniseM]

How easy is this to do? If I could have reasonable certainty that I could get President's Week at either Westin Kaanapali property, then this would seem like a great value.

I think finding a holiday week is a long-shot. Starwood chooses the weeks that are deposited, and for the most part, they deposit off-season/lower demand weeks. It could happen, but a holiday week is the least likely to be deposited.

If you are very flexible and can travel any time of the year, exchanging with II is doable, but if you need holiday weeks, you're likely to be disappointed. It seems like we saw fall weeks deposited a few months ago?

 

[DeniseM]

My task, as the guy who sneaks into MOC all the time with a cheap timeshare is how to do the same thing at WKORV. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your input.

Hi Perry - Starwood has a 3 day priority in II for other Starwood resorts. There is a whole article about it in the Owner Resources sticky at the top of the board. Starwood does bulk deposits of mostly off-season stuff, but if you are flexible and can travel off-season, there are some quality exchanges available through II. You can use an inexpensive resale Starwood week to exchange with II.

And will you please quit stirring the poop on my board????

 

[thinze3]

Perry,
I can see Marriott Maui being close to 80% "owner occupancy" by the way that Marriott measures this. Just look at the rentals of MOC on Redweek. Marriott counts all those as "owner occupied" you know. With Marriott's new rental policy, who would want to rent an MOC unit through Marriott?

Anyhow, I have an email from the Marriott Waiohai GM that states Waiohai will be at 70% owner occupancy this year.


PS
I personally love Westins. If any of you have a week at Maui and want to spend a week at Waiohai let me know. Denise, delete this if it breaks the rules.

 

[PerryM]

Thanks for the input...

Outwit, Outplay, Outlast – works for the TV show Survivor and timeshare ownership too.

I form alliances with many folks and our goal is to get that hard to get vacation, the impossible to get holiday week, that resort that costs 10 times as much as I’m putting up. That’s what many of the web sites I contribute to mean to me.

I openly share many of my experiences and do a lot of digging around to find new nuggets of knowledge to use in my quest for a better vacation. Thanks to all those here and if I can return the favor just PM me. I don’t expect to get valuable knowledge without reciprocating.

My goal is to stay at WKORV next year and have an even better vacation than at the Marriott.

Without a goal where would we be?

 

[DeniseM]

Some - like our esteeemed Moderator DeniseM - have become disenchanted with the area as a whole due to over-building, but that really isnt a specific WKORV issue.

This is true - I think the resort is gorgeous, but I'm sad to see the growth in the immediate area, and I have OF envy!

Maybe Starwood will call me up and offer me a steal on an OF unit to get me to shut up! :rofl:
My loyalty CAN be purchased!

And Starwood, if you're listening (and I know you are!) I will totally sign a nondisclosure agreement!

 

[GrayFal]

How easy is this to do? If I could have reasonable certainty that I could get President's Week at either Westin Kaanapali property, then this would seem like a great value.

I think even if you own at these two resorts, this would be a tough reservation to get - unless I don't understand how Starwood ownership/point reservations are done.

Marriott now sells President's week as a fixed week (unless it is a 'summer' property where the July 4th week is fixed) along with week 51,52.