Why aren’t Maui Westin owners happy?

[PerryM]

Just took a sales tour at the Maui Westin – fantastic resort. Love the washer and dryer in BOTH the 1BR and studio. Love the entire unit – it’s much nicer than the new Maui Marriott towers.

BUT, we were told that only 33% of the owners there ever come back! 80% of the Marriott Maui Ocean Club owners come back year after year after year.

This is very critical since I asked if you Starwood owners bought atomic clocks and called in 12 months to the second, or clicked the mouse, before you wanted a hot floating holiday week like week 7, 4th of July week, or week 51 (if you have that option). We Marriott owners have to do this.

We were told that you Starwood Maui owners can screw around for 4 months before locking in one of these hot holiday floating weeks. I found that hard to believe and challenged the sales manager there.

Later when he agreed that there was NO difference between Marriott and Starwood 12 month reservations he indicated that 66% of the owners, who pay $1,900 per year in MFs every bother to come back to Maui.

Is this correct or is this the mother of all timeshare lies?

 

[DeniseM]

Hi Perry -

I can't speak for everyone, but we bought preconstruction several years ago, when the beach beyond the WKORV was completely empty for about a mile - nearly to the Embassy. Now that the whole area is one big constructions zone, it's too crowded & busy for us.

We already have our unit rented for $3,400 for 2008 and we are going to spend 2 weeks in our more secluded OF Kauai TS this summer, instead.

BTW, my MF is only $1,600, but I own at the first of the two resorts and you probably toured the newest part - Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas NORTH.

 

[Denise L]

We love our home resort . We have been back every year (bought in 2003, with occupancy in 2004) and even in 2003 on a package/rental deal. We call at 12 months out EXACTLY at 6:00AM Pacific. No way can I dilly dally around and wait 4 months before locking in a high demand week. It would be gone by 6:10AM 12 months out.

I have no idea of the numbers of owners returning, but I would say that when we have been there, there have been either owners or people who rented from owners. I'll do an informal poll when we are there next month for Spring Break .

Off-topic, we are here at Hyatt High Sierra and were in the pool/hot tub today, in the sun, playing with the snow :whoopie: .

 

[Time2Ponder]

Well, I guess we're unusual. We're like the Energizer Bunny: we keep going back and going back and going back. But maybe that's because when we first purchased, we lived on the East Coast and were accustomed to the darker water and found Maui to be so exotic. Now, we live in the Midwest and are accustomed to... no water.

Either way, we just find it to be so darned relaxing.

We love WKORV (we do have an OF deluxe, which probably helps). We love it so much, in fact, that we rented out another unit to bring some relatives with us this year.

I think this is somewhat telling: We also own Disney (we're DINKs), and while we have (after four years) moved Disney to the "EOY" category, we haven't done that with WKORV.

Who knows -- maybe we'll eventually reach that point, but so far, with WKORV, we're at three years and still going strong.

Kim

 

[myip]

I didn't have a problem of booking week 7 - 1 bedroom during the 9 months window using staroptions since I am not an owner at Maui. I called in Dec, 2007 , they still have studios left. However, we decided to go to Oahu.

 

[SDKath]

I look at it differently than the OP. I think there are many quality Starwood resorts in the system so buyers don't feel like they need to go back to the same resort each year. They are exploring the other nice Westins and Sheratons (like St. John and Atlantis) in addition to WKORV. Variety is the spice of life

K

 

[davidahn]

While my wife and I were in Maui last week, we met a couple that goes to WKORV for a MONTH every year since they bought. I also know these rent for $5-10,000 a week, so I'm sure many owners use other timeshares in their portfolios and pocket the cash from WKORV. My wife and I are planning on buying 2 WKORVs and 2 WPORVs and renting most of them until we feel the itch to go back to Hawaii. We'll probably use our huge cache of StarPoints to travel the world, then settle on a home resort to visit over and over. And when that time comes, it'll probably be WKORV!

 

[Henry M.]

I've been going back to Maui for 2 weeks since before WKORV opened. Many of the people I meet there are owners and they seem to come back every year too. I don't know what the actual statistics are, but a 33% return rate seems way too low.

 

[GrayFal]

Perry, It is an interesting statement from the sales person... because with that high fee, I would think people are using their units or renting THEMSELVES - so those visitors are 'friends' of the owners using their units that would count as part of the 33%.

It might be a little white lie :rofl:

On the other hand, there is availability pretty much all year round thru II at both resorts ..... or as SDKath stated, people are using their points to go elsewhere.

 

[smsavage]

I guess that we're the hybrid then. I love using the larger side of our lockout in Maui in April every year. I also trade the studio within the SVN system so that we get at least one week at another resort. I know we'd do better by renting it and then by renting elsewhere, but I bought with the intent to use the system.

So far we've been to Maui 3 times and we've been to Vistana Villages and SMV. We're back to Maui in six weeks and in June we'll use the studio for 10 days in a premium unit at Broadway Plantation.

I, for one, am really happy with the system and the flexibility.

 

[Negma]

We have used it every year and plan to do so. For this year we called at 12 months to get 4th of July week, then called at 8 months to get the week after the 4th no problem, two weeks.......yessssss.

33%- just does not sound right, unless people are using it to go to the other resorts.

 

[DeniseM]

I also know these rent for $5-10,000 a week

Maybe, but only if you rent directly from Starwood. As an owner doing a private rental you will not get this much. I rented my 2 bdm. OV unit easily for $3,400, but $5K - $10K is not realistic. Maybe $5K-$6K for ocean front Christmas week, but not likely other seasons/units. You will see higher rental ASKING prices, but it doesn't mean they are getting any takers.

 

[divenski]

Maybe, but only if you rent directly from Starwood. As an owner doing a private rental you will not get this much. I rented my 2 bdm. OV unit easily for $3,400, but $5K - $10K is not realistic. Maybe $5K-$6K for ocean front Christmas week, but not likely other seasons/units. You will see higher rental ASKING prices, but it doesn't mean they are getting any takers.

Gotta second these comments because if you look around, e.g. Redweek, etc, there are a LOT of Maui weeks, Westin and others, for rent, and the prices are nowhere near the Westin rack rate.

If yo do the math, most of these folks are about breaking even, when you consider the high MF + opportunity cost.

 

[Henry M.]

Hey Negma - I'll be arriving at WKORV July 20. I'm in Kauai the week of July 13 (Sunday to Sunday). I traded to someone from TUG for the Marriott Waiohai.

I am happy with the Starwood system and enjoy trading to other places. I don't like the Starpoint devaluation, but overall the system seems to work.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Maybe, but only if you rent directly from Starwood. As an owner doing a private rental you will not get this much. I rented my 2 bdm. OV unit easily for $3,400, but $5K - $10K is not realistic. Maybe $5K-$6K for ocean front Christmas week, but not likely other seasons/units. You will see higher rental ASKING prices, but it doesn't mean they are getting any takers.

That is $486 per night and very reasonable. This price is probably lower than the cost per night if someone buys direct from Starwood.

Gotta second these comments because if you look around, e.g. Redweek, etc, there are a LOT of Maui weeks, Westin and others, for rent, and the prices are nowhere near the Westin rack rate.

If yo do the math, most of these folks are about breaking even, when you consider the high MF + opportunity cost.

At $486 per night, they are only breaking even on the MF, which is not the total cost of ownership. Don't forget to include some lost opportunity costs (5% of purchase price) or heaven forbid...the yearly financing costs (principal + interest) for people that are financing their timeshare.

 

[Denise L]

I helped my friend rent her WKORV-N week out. $4200 (split into two stays).

 

[thinze3]

We just got back from [our Hawaii timeshare] and loved it, but we want to go back to [another island] as we haven't been there in 6-7 years. [edited to remove references to a direct exchange.]

Help me.
How can I pull this off successfully? Should I keep trying for the direct trade or should I go through II or SFX? If using an exchange company, do I book the week I want and then "request first" for safety?

 

[DavidnRobin]

I haven't read this entire thread yet - but what!!!???? You (PM) believe anything a TS salesperson states - after all these years in the TS biz? Truly incredible - how is that PH working out for you... yeeessshhh.

Also - I assume you meant WKORV and not 'Westin Maui'...
We are very happy with our WKORV OF Dlx purchase (resale then requaled) and really enjoy the resorts - and plan to go back for years to come.

 

[PerryM]

I haven't read this entire thread yet - but what!!!???? You (PM) believe anything a TS salesperson states - after all these years in the TS biz? Truly incredible - how is that PH working out for you... yeeessshhh.

Also - I assume you meant WKORV and not 'Westin Maui'...
We are very happy with our WKORV OF Dlx purchase (resale then requaled) and really enjoy the resorts - and plan to go back for years to come.

Oh I had a knock down, drag out fight, where I won the argument (he agreed that the 12 month reservation systems are identical). I could not dispute the 33% return rate since I'm not into Starwood. However, that 33% return rate makes all the difference in making leisurely reservations versus the Marriott where 80% of the owners there return EVERY year and getting into Maui is near impossible.

And yes I mean WKORV, the terminology you guys use.

I still find it hard to believe, and told the sales manager, that only 33% of the owners return - this makes no sense at all.

However, the sales manager there also is a Park Plaza owner in Park City, UT like we are so I didn't want to nail him to the wall - I know I'm a softy.

P.S.
The sales manager said he was a former Marriott salesrep - I find that hard to believe because he thought that ANY Marriott owner could call in, 12 months to the second, (or 13 with multiple week ownership) and book the Maui Ocean Club. That is the reason he was using to say that their reservation system was superior to Marriott's - totally false.

 

[PerryM]

As easy as 1.2.3...4.5

OK.
All this talk about Maui from Perry (on two threads) is really starting to bother me. I have stated many times that I want to exchange my Waiohai for a 2BR Westin or Marriott in summer 2009. We just got back from Waiohai and loved it, but we want to go back to Maui as we haven't been there in 6-7 years.

Help me.
How can I pull this off successfully? Should I keep trying for the direct trade or should I go through II or SFX? If using an exchange company, do I book the week I want and then "request first" for safety?

I can’t help you with Starwood but you should be able do to an easy exchange into the Maui Ocean Club in a 2BR this way (Assuming your unit is a 2BR lock-off):

1) Place an ongoing search for the Studio side (with the studio side) for Jun – Aug 2009

2) Place an ongoing search for the 1BR side (With the 1BR side) for Jun – Aug 2009

3) Wait until you get a hit on one of them – probably will be 4th of July week

4) Adjust your other search for just the 4th of July week

5) Pray

You might be off one day on the 2 reservations and there is NO guarantee that the 2 units will be merged into a 2BR.

OR

Rent your unit and take the money and rent on Maui

Good luck,

P.S.
Getting a 2BR exchange into Maui is about 1 in 100. So you need to try for the Stuio and 1BR trick.

 

[thinze3]

I can’t help you with Starwood but you should be able do to an easy exchange into the Maui Ocean Club in a 2BR this way (Assuming your unit is a 2BR lock-off):....

Now, let's start over assuming that Waiohai is all 2BR units - no lockoffs.

 

[Stefa]

Now, let's start over assuming that Waiohai is all 2BR units - no lockoffs.

You can do a request first with II and keep trying for the direct exchange at the same time. You won't get an AC, but you also won't lose your Waiohai if the trade doesn't come through.

The Westin will be nearly impossible during summer because Starwood handles II deposites differently than Marriott. When an Starwood owner wants to deposite THEY (Starwood) give you a week from their pot of deposited weeks. You don't have onwers reserving and depositing the best weeks, so prime weeks are less likely to come up in II.

 

[PerryM]

Now, let's start over assuming that Waiohai is all 2BR units - no lockoffs.

I don't understand timeshare developers - it takes probably $1,000 more to make a 2BR into a 2BR lock-off. The resulting flexibility is so great that for a developer not to build lock-offs is a sign of mental problems.

This flexibility translates into more great stories for the salesreps to spin resulting in easier sales.

The ONLY reason I've ever heard against lock-offs is that an extra parking slot is needed. Well Marriott has a simple solution at some resorts - make 80% of the units 2BR and only 20% 2BR lock offs - problem solved since only 20% of the folks ever lock-off their units.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Pray

OR

Rent your unit and take the money and rent on Maui

Good luck,

P.S.
Getting a 2BR exchange into Maui is about 1 in 100. So you need to try for the Stuio and 1BR trick.

I say your best option is to rent your unit and then rent someone else's unit unless you can get a swap.

 

[Bill4728]

I look at it differently than the OP. I think there are many quality Starwood resorts in the system so buyers don't feel like they need to go back to the same resort each year. They are exploring the other nice Westins and Sheratons (like St. John and Atlantis) in addition to WKORV. Variety is the spice of life

K

This is very likely the real reason.

Unlike the marriotts where you must give up your unit in hopes of getting someplace else. (ok you don't have to with request first) The Starwood TS just make their home resort reservation, then request a different TS using the staroptions at 9 months.