Who in right mind would purchase if using shoulder season?

[winger]

I never really looked at these II junk mail (full of getaways),,,until tonight just for fun reading over dinner.

Wow, MSE Sept 2008 - May 2009 nightly rates from $20's to $150's (units of different sizes)... Lots are less than annual M/F.

 

[lprstn]

I know..but most people who purchase from the developer get caught up in the moment.

 

[chuckles]

The last time we stayed at Manor club, I noticed that they have an indoor pool, fireplaces in the rooms, kids activities, and golf. Not a bad place to spend the shoulder season. You're right though: If the getaway costs less than the maintenance fees, that should make an owner feel silly.... unless that room's empty because the owner traded it for a last-minute trip to Florida or Hawaii.

 

[jlr10]

Speaking as someone who own Palm Desert in the summer: We purchased because we were told we would get great trades if we didn't choose to stay in our fantastic resort in the heat of the summer. We didn't quite get what that meant but we have stayed in the summer, which I really like, and have had some great vacations in Hawaii during prime time. A couple of times we have been given an AC for our summer week (boy were we surprised!) We have used them to go back to the desert in the summer, sent friends out to the desert and spent a lovely week on the beach at Waiohai in October.

Could we rent in the desert in the summer cheaper than maintenance fees? Absolutely. But could we trade the getaway for Hawaii? Nope. So were are pleased with our decision. That's my answer and I am sticking to it!

 

[rsackett]

I never really looked at these II junk mail (full of getaways),,,until tonight just for fun reading over dinner.

Wow, MSE Sept 2008 - May 2009 nightly rates from $20's to $150's (units of different sizes)... Lots are less than annual M/F.

If the person who is buying and has a II account and only plans to stay at their home resort, and is somewhat flexable as to the week/chech in day that they can go in the low season, IT WOULD BE BETTER TO NOT BUY.

If they are buying a silver MSE, can travel on short notice, and are open to many travel locations, and want to stay in Marriotts, a resale MSE week could work well! Low up-front cost (could be close to ZERO), $850 in maint fees, $75 to lock-off, $99 per trade fee to a Marriott, Marriott internal exchange priority $0 = $1123 for two weeks in a Marriott 2 bedroom or larger, in high season, anywhere in the world is possible! It could work out for some people.

A Branson week would cost even less. I am sure that there are many low season Marriott owners who are VERY happy, and are NOT nuts!

Ray

 

[sernow]

"...a resale MSE week could work well! Low up-front cost (could be close to ZERO)..."

"A Branson week would cost even less."

How much less than zero do those Branson weeks go for?

 

[Robert D]

Sernow, I might want a few of them if it's a lot less than zero!

 

[rsackett]

If the person who is buying and has a II account and only plans to stay at their home resort, and is somewhat flexable as to the week/chech in day that they can go in the low season, IT WOULD BE BETTER TO NOT BUY.

If they are buying a silver MSE, can travel on short notice, and are open to many travel locations, and want to stay in Marriotts, a resale MSE week could work well! Low up-front cost (could be close to ZERO), $850 in maint fees, $75 to lock-off, $99 per trade fee to a Marriott, Marriott internal exchange priority $0 = $1123 for two weeks in a Marriott 2 bedroom or larger, in high season, anywhere in the world is possible! It could work out for some people.

A Branson week would cost even less. I am sure that there are many low season Marriott owners who are VERY happy, and are NOT nuts!

Ray

"...a resale MSE week could work well! Low up-front cost (could be close to ZERO)..."

"A Branson week would cost even less."

How much less than zero do those Branson weeks go for?

I was referring to the cost of $1123 for two weeks, since the maint fees are lower. The cost of ownership for a timeshare is more than the up front cost.

Or you may have been joking, or playing politician by cutting out the rest of the quote.

Ray

 

[MOXJO7282]

With the explosion of TSs everywhere, and the resulting rental options, I think you can say this about many platinum season purchases as well. Its just too easy to find a good rental, to make the upfront investment a sound decision.

The only reason a shoulder season purchase does make sense and its a solid reason, is if you can really take advantage of a LO unit. If you can split to rent one side or split to get two weeks usage from one week's ownership, that would be the only reason to buy a shoulder season or overdeveloped platinum week.

And if you can also take advantage of flexexchange, shoulder season ownership can really pay.

The abilityto do those two things can actually make shoulder season ownership incredibly valuable.

You could conceivably own a gold resale MMC, split and within flex get a 2BDRM NVC off-season with the one BDRM and a studio in Hawaii or Aruba for the studio. Comparing that to what it would cost to rent those 2 trips, which would be probably min $2500, the ROI of the gold MMC is pretty solid.

This is the only way I can think of that makes shoulder or overdeveloped Plat ownership worth it. I'm sure there are quite a few that can do this, but I'd say most can't or don't. If you are someone who always has to use the 2BDRMs or only bought a gold 1BDRM, then I would agree it makes no sense to own because of the derth of rental options.



Regards.
Joe

 

[MOXJO7282]

If they are buying a silver MSE, can travel on short notice, and are open to many travel locations, and want to stay in Marriotts, a resale MSE week could work well! Low up-front cost (could be close to ZERO), $850 in maint fees, $75 to lock-off, $99 per trade fee to a Marriott, Marriott internal exchange priority $0 = $1123 for two weeks in a Marriott 2 bedroom or larger, in high season, anywhere in the world is possible! It could work out for some people.

A Branson week would cost even less. I am sure that there are many low season Marriott owners who are VERY happy, and are NOT nuts!

Ray

This to me is a strecth to think you would get 2BDRMs with both sides and also get them in prime time. I'm sure it happens, but not consistently. And nothing against Ray for saying it but many get into TSing thinking they can trade gold to plat or even silver to gold and it just doesn't always happen and the owner is then disappointed. Realistically saying you can get gold to gold, splitting and flexing is how Gold ownership can be realistically value.

Regards.
Joe

 

[rsackett]

This to me is a strecth to think you would get 2BDRMs with both sides and also get them in prime time. I'm sure it happens, but not consistently. And nothing against Ray for saying it but many get into TSing thinking they can trade gold to plat or even silver to gold and it just doesn't always happen and the owner is then disappointed. Realistically saying you can get gold to gold, splitting and flexing is how Gold ownership can be realistically value.

Regards.
Joe

I agree! That is why I had so many IF's, Could's and conditions in the statement. I would not buy a low season week and count on this, BUT it is possible.

I am not very flexible in my travel plans, nor do I have a lock-off to search with, but I do like to look to see what is available at the last moment, I have no idea why I like to do this but I do. I have been amazed what pops up in flex change at peak times, and have often fantasized about how nice it would be to be able to grab them and go. If I am ever in a position to regularly travel I may try getting a lock-off unit for flex change use, but I doubt it would be a Marriott. I would try something with lower maint fees.

Ray

 

[dioxide45]

Also remember one can not become an II member unless they own a timeshare. Purchasing a cheaper shoulder season week can prove to be a cheaper way to get in to the system and get access to those getaways you mention.

 

[dougp26364]

Well, in our case, it was a matter of wanting an ocean front unit instead of an ocean view unit. We also like the idea that, as owners, we're given preference in our request for unit location.

Yes we could have probably rented cheaper than buying from Marriott. But getting that ocean front unit every year and then getting a high floor every year might not have been a reality. As it is, having bought Silver season direct from Marriott we've received essentially what we've asked for every time we've stayed at our home resort. Therefore it still makes sense to purchase the view we want in the season we want rather than relying on the availablity or a rental unit.

Again with MGC, we wanted that 3 bedroom LO unit for the location and unit design. We were not interested in staying in the traditional 2 bedroom unit and we suspect that, since a 3 bedroom unit locked off into a full 2 bedroom and a full 1 bedroom unit, renting that 3 bedroom unit on the cheap when we wanted to go might never be a possibility. Therefore it made more sense to own what we wanted rather than rely on renting or exchanging into this particular resort.

Keep in mind that both of these resorts were purchased with the idea of personal usage rather than exchanging. However there will be times when they are exchanged if it fits our needs.

 

[jimf41]

This to me is a strecth to think you would get 2BDRMs with both sides and also get them in prime time. I'm sure it happens, but not consistently. And nothing against Ray for saying it but many get into TSing thinking they can trade gold to plat or even silver to gold and it just doesn't always happen and the owner is then disappointed. Realistically saying you can get gold to gold, splitting and flexing is how Gold ownership can be realistically value.

Regards.
Joe

If you can accept flextime travel arrangements you can expect to get 2-3 bdrm units for a silver ocean Pointe lockout almost all the time in gold and platinum season at a lot of MVC resorts. At least this has been my experience so far. You have to check every day as the 2bdrm units disappear quickly. Hawaii weeks are almost always available as are Caribbean weeks. The ski weeks in Utah on the other hand rarely come up as far as I can tell.

 

[1sland]

Speaking as someone who own Palm Desert in the summer: We purchased because we were told we would get great trades if we didn't choose to stay in our fantastic resort in the heat of the summer. We didn't quite get what that meant but we have stayed in the summer, which I really like, and have had some great vacations in Hawaii during prime time. A couple of times we have been given an AC for our summer week (boy were we surprised!) We have used them to go back to the desert in the summer, sent friends out to the desert and spent a lovely week on the beach at Waiohai in October.

Could we rent in the desert in the summer cheaper than maintenance fees? Absolutely. But could we trade the getaway for Hawaii? Nope. So were are pleased with our decision. That's my answer and I am sticking to it!

DITTO!!!!!

 

[dougp26364]

If you can accept flextime travel arrangements you can expect to get 2-3 bdrm units for a silver ocean Pointe lockout almost all the time in gold and platinum season at a lot of MVC resorts. At least this has been my experience so far. You have to check every day as the 2bdrm units disappear quickly. Hawaii weeks are almost always available as are Caribbean weeks. The ski weeks in Utah on the other hand rarely come up as far as I can tell.

I think the key wording here is, "if you can accept flextime travel arrangements." The problem that many people have is their travel time isn't that flexible. Thus the disappointment of not being able to get what they want when they want it. Most people have to request time off and hope that it's approved by their employer. Even then things may change as the year goes on. Flextime works great for some people but is a poor plan for many others. Thus, it's good for some to own in shoulder season if that's what they want and not a good plan for others.

 

[Robert D]

It seems like if you can travel during the offseason, you can get a Getaway deal on II for most destinations that is quite a bit less than the annual maintenance fee with no risk on the cost of the TS or liability for ongoing maintenance fees, or the cost of doing an exchange. For that reason, I wouldn't buy a TS unless it could be used during the peak seasons. Getaway weeks usually are not available or are very expensive during peak seasons as are other types of rentals.

 

[dougp26364]

OK, so I thought I'd take a real look at this rather than just guessing about it. We own a Silver season 3 bedroom ocean front unit that we typically use in either Nov. or Dec. each year. So I went onto I.I. to check getaways and see what I could have rented if I didn't own or, if I wanted to use my ownership for something else.

Here's the results:

Member Interval
Member Average Nightly
Rate From
Oct 31 2008 - Nov 07 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 06 2008 - Nov 13 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 08 2008 - Nov 15 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 13 2008 - Nov 20 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 14 2008 - Nov 21 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 27 2008 - Dec 04 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Nov 29 2008 - Dec 06 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Nov 30 2008 - Dec 07 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Nov 30 2008 - Dec 07 2008 1 4 4 144 $344.00 $369.00 $52.71
Dec 04 2008 - Dec 11 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 11 2008 - Dec 18 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 12 2008 - Dec 19 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 13 2008 - Dec 20 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 14 2008 - Dec 21 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14

Looking at this I'm still happy that I own where I want, the season we want to travel in and, most importantly, the view we want (ocean front). As you can see, there is only one 1 bedroom unit available. The rest are studio units. This would only give us an ocean side unit and, most likely a low floor. Neigther of which we wound find acceptable for this resort.

 

[dougp26364]

Here's the results looking for a Getaway for the next year (Sept. to Sept). So much for getting a 3 bedroom Ocean Front unit anytime we want it.

Sep 18 2008 - Sep 25 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Sep 19 2008 - Sep 26 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Sep 20 2008 - Sep 27 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Sep 21 2008 - Sep 28 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Sep 25 2008 - Oct 02 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Sep 26 2008 - Oct 03 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Sep 27 2008 - Oct 04 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Sep 28 2008 - Oct 05 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 02 2008 - Oct 09 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 03 2008 - Oct 10 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 04 2008 - Oct 11 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 05 2008 - Oct 12 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 09 2008 - Oct 16 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 10 2008 - Oct 17 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 17 2008 - Oct 24 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 23 2008 - Oct 30 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 24 2008 - Oct 31 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 26 2008 - Nov 02 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Oct 31 2008 - Nov 07 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 06 2008 - Nov 13 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 08 2008 - Nov 15 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 13 2008 - Nov 20 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 14 2008 - Nov 21 2008 0 2 4 024 $274.00 $299.00 $42.71
Nov 27 2008 - Dec 04 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Nov 29 2008 - Dec 06 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Nov 30 2008 - Dec 07 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Nov 30 2008 - Dec 07 2008 1 4 4 144 $344.00 $369.00 $52.71
Dec 04 2008 - Dec 11 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 11 2008 - Dec 18 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 12 2008 - Dec 19 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 13 2008 - Dec 20 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
Dec 14 2008 - Dec 21 2008 0 2 4 024 $284.00 $309.00 $44.14
May 16 2009 - May 23 2009 2 6 8 268 $1,071.00 $1,096.00 $156.57

 

[jimf41]

It's the resort that matters more than the season

I think the resort itself determines the worth of “shoulder” season. In the ski resorts you can’t ski in a Bronze week and you’ll have poor conditions in a Silver week. HHI is a little chilly for swimming in January, although there are lots of other things to do. Ocean Point and Beach Place towers have great beach weather almost the entire year. At OP the Silver season is the month of May and September through mid December. The weather is great for swimming in the ocean in these months. Oddly the Platinum season runs from mid December through April. Mid December through mid February are not good months for spending a day at the ocean. Of the eight weeks you’ll probably see only three with temps consistently above 75 f. and you’ll almost certainly get one with temps in the 30’s.

When we bought at OP we took a platinum 2bdrm OS and a Silver 3 bdrm. I’ve since picked up two 2 bdrm OF’s in Silver season. The platinum was the only one I regret. I use it to trade and it is a great trader but if not for that I would have sold it by now. When I go to a beach resort I want to look at the ocean, not the building next door. This year I traded the OP platinum for a 2bdrm at Frenchman’s Cove in the exact week I wanted ( 3rd week in Feb). As long as it has that power I’ll keep it. BTW the II rep told me when I first asked about the trading power of an OP platinum week “Any week at Ocean Pointe is a good trader.” We’ll see. In 2010 I’m going to see if I can do the same with a Silver OF week.

Doug-
Take a look at what your L/O can get you at OP. The getaways do not seem to be particularly attractive. The L/O will pull a 2 bdrm in Platinum season. You probably won’t have OF though.

 

[dioxide45]

At OP the Silver season is the month of May and September through mid December. The weather is great for swimming in the ocean in these months. Oddly the Platinum season runs from mid December through April. Mid December through mid February are not good months for spending a day at the ocean. Of the eight weeks you’ll probably see only three with temps consistently above 75 f. and you’ll almost certainly get one with temps in the 30’s.

I think the silver season at Ocean Point is set the way it is due to most of the months being prime season for hurricanes. We just returned, with two hurricanes threatening, the weather is great and the getaway price was great.

 

[dougp26364]

I think the resort itself determines the worth of “shoulder” season. In the ski resorts you can’t ski in a Bronze week and you’ll have poor conditions in a Silver week. HHI is a little chilly for swimming in January, although there are lots of other things to do. Ocean Point and Beach Place towers have great beach weather almost the entire year. At OP the Silver season is the month of May and September through mid December. The weather is great for swimming in the ocean in these months. Oddly the Platinum season runs from mid December through April. Mid December through mid February are not good months for spending a day at the ocean. Of the eight weeks you’ll probably see only three with temps consistently above 75 f. and you’ll almost certainly get one with temps in the 30’s.

When we bought at OP we took a platinum 2bdrm OS and a Silver 3 bdrm. I’ve since picked up two 2 bdrm OF’s in Silver season. The platinum was the only one I regret. I use it to trade and it is a great trader but if not for that I would have sold it by now. When I go to a beach resort I want to look at the ocean, not the building next door. This year I traded the OP platinum for a 2bdrm at Frenchman’s Cove in the exact week I wanted ( 3rd week in Feb). As long as it has that power I’ll keep it. BTW the II rep told me when I first asked about the trading power of an OP platinum week “Any week at Ocean Pointe is a good trader.” We’ll see. In 2010 I’m going to see if I can do the same with a Silver OF week.

Doug-
Take a look at what your L/O can get you at OP. The getaways do not seem to be particularly attractive. The L/O will pull a 2 bdrm in Platinum season. You probably won’t have OF though.

You're incorrect about the weather conditions and ocean conditions in S. Florida Dec thru April. This is prime high season snow bird season from the north. The ocean waters are fine all year round and the weather is great.

I have looked at what my Studio will get me. Not only at Ocean Pointe but throughout the I.I. system. That little silver season studio trades very well anywhere I want to go.

So, back to the original question of "Who in their right mind would purchase if using shoulder season?" For one, I think you can easily say Ocean Pointe owners who want a 2 or 3 bedroom ocean front unit. While I can get ocean view units pretty easily, we want that ocean front unit and we want to be higher on the list for placement when we ask for a high floor and/or a particluar building.

We have exchanged into Ocean Pointe using other units we own. The original time we did this, before we were owners, we were place in a first floor unit all the way to the back of the building. Most would consider that the worst location at this resort (although it's still very nice).

Yes I have seen a few three bedrooms when I look to exchange my studio week back into Ocean Pointe. I have learned what a two bedroom ocean front unit looks like online (6/6 vs 6/8 sleeping capacity) and they just don't show up all that often. Plus, lower floor ocean front units don't really see the ocean due to the palm trees (anything lower than the 4th floor at least).

Now, this might not be the case with all Marriott shoulder season weeks at all of their resorts. On the other hand, those owners may own those weeks to trade up and, that studio unit Silver Season week does trade up pretty well. Owning shoulder season isn't the way to go for everyone but it does work for some of us and we were in our right mind when we purchased. That shoulder season week is one of two I would not consider getting rid of if it ever came to a point where I had to sell off some of my timeshares.

 

[dougp26364]

I think the silver season at Ocean Point is set the way it is due to most of the months being prime season for hurricanes. We just returned, with two hurricanes threatening, the weather is great and the getaway price was great.

Oddly enough, that same Silver season at Ocean Pointe is either Gold or, in the case of a few weeks, Platinum season at Oceana Palms. It makes one feel that maybe they undervalued the Silver season weeks in this area, even though it is during prime hurricane season for the majority of Silver season.