Which is the best Starwood Developer purchase to make when requalifying a resale?

[susanrc10]

This is my story. I've been a Vistana Resort Palms owner for nearly 25 years. I've tried to sell the 2 bedroom unit for years now with no luck. My new husband and I came to the resort this week and were pulled into an owners update meeting. At this meeting we were introduced to the new Starwood system. My husband and I were already SPG members and stay at many SPG hotels by preference.
The sales person told us that they could bring our current unit in the Palms into the system for free if we bought a Biennial week at the Cascades. $12,795 later, we owned 1 annual 2 bedroom unit and the biennial 2 bedroom unit and we're in the SVO network.
We really like the idea of the options and points, although we don't like only being able to convert to point on alternating "use" years. But basically, we're thinking that we will use the system since we travel a lot.
So then I started looking at the resale market and saw how much less we could pay for a unit. Immediately, my husband and I thought we had been conned and followed the instructions for cancelling our 3 day old purchase. Before mailing in the cancel request, I began to read more of this forum surrounding "requalifying" a resale. If I am understanding correctly, we may have inadvertently done it correctly to begin with and SHOULD NOT cancel the purchase that we made a couple of days ago.

I guess what I really want to know is this: If we do need to buy one unit from the developer for every resale unit that we want to bring into the system, is $12,795 a fair price, or could we have purchased from Starwood for less money elsewhere?

Sorry for the rambling. And I hope I stated everything clearly.
Thanks for the help,
Susan

 

[Ken555]

Rescind immediately. Your instinct was correct...this is much more than you should spend. Ignore the requalification issued, since you wouldn't get as many StarOptions are you could during a requal (you should always strive for 148,100 StarOptions to requalify). Don't feel your investment in your current week should dictate your next purchase.

Rescind, then come back and research more. We'll help you figure out the system and you'll then have all the info (objectively, not from a salesperson) in order to make an informed decision.

 

[jarta]

I guess what I really want to know is this: If we do need to buy one unit from the developer for every resale unit that we want to bring into the system, is $12,795 a fair price, or could we have purchased from Starwood for less money elsewhere?

I'm not sure why you feel the "need" to bring your resale week back into the SVN. I assume it has to do with obtaining StarOptions and having the ability to convert StarOptions to SPG Starpoints.

But, if you want to bring your resale back into the SVN, the only current way you can do that is by purchasing another unit from Starwood. When you purchase from Starwood the purchase prices are very high and not negotiable. There is currently nobody else to buy from to accomplish what is also known as a requalification.

I know Ken consistently disagrees with the "need" to bring resales back into the SVN. It is not a good investment of money for most people because they do not have the long-term staying power to own and use lots of timeshare weeks.

I have done it 3 times. But, I think I had a good reason to do so. And, 2 of my resales gave me 148,100 StarOptions each and the 3rd gave me 196,900 StarOptions. Plus, for each requalification, I also received options to purchase 6 blocs of 80,000 StarOptions for $1,550 per bloc - or up to 480,000 StarOptions per requalification.

It depends on how you travel and vacation now and how you intend to travel and vacation over the next decade. I try to convert a substantial portion of my Starpoints to airline miles. My wife and I like flying first or business class and staying at Level 5-7 Starwood hotels. We have no debt and assets for retirement, we both will be earning for probably the next 3-5 years, we are healthy, have plenty of family and friends to travel with (if we wish), our work schedules are under enough control to let us vacation often and our kids are all grown.

However, I don't see buying another unit in Orlando to bring an Orlando resale back into the SVN as anything I would be interested in doing. There are weeks in more flexible places with more StarOptions that are better candidates for requalification.

Even if you really feel the "need" to requalify your Orlando week, there should be no hurry to do so. There is no indication that requalification is going away. Starwood is still acquiring inventory from foreclosures and ROFR in Hawaii and foreclosures elsewhere at resorts. WDW is not sold out. Lagunamar, ditto. In the next 5 years, Starwood will have something to sell you at inflated developer pricing.

Rescind and take the time to figure out if requalifying a resale in Orlando (or anywhere) really makes sense for you. You will probably decide it doesn't. And you will have saved your hard earned money. GLTY. Salty

 

[LisaRex]

Your Palms unit is worth very little on the resale market. If you want to get rid of it, you're going to have to practically give it away. Tug has free classifieds if you join, but Redweek.com has a lot more traffic. If I was going to sell a TS, I'd list it at both places.

As to the proposal, I wouldn't try to requalify anything that wasn't worth at least 148,100 SOs. Not worth it.

As far as using the SVO network, SVO can offer great exchanges. But know up front that if you want to exchange to very popular resorts during very popular times (e.g. St. John in the winter, Atlantis in the summer), it's not as easy as having StarOptions. There also has to be availability. And availability can be very limited, depending on the resort. Assume that the resorts that are catching your eye are catching everyone else's eye, too. So if you want to travel to other SVO resorts in high season, which is basically anytime the kids are out of school, you may have to be very lucky, persistent and/or flexible to nail these exchanges.

If, on the other hand, you can travel during shoulder season (spring/fall -- basically when the kids are in school), then the world opens up for you.

Either way, I'd rescind and start over before I'd add an EOY in Orlando for $13k.

Good luck to you!

 

[susanrc10]

Still thinking...but probably will recind

I'm not sure why you feel the "need" to bring your resale week back into the SVN. I assume it has to do with obtaining StarOptions and having the ability to convert StarOptions to SPG Starpoints.

But, if you want to bring your resale back into the SVN, the only current way you can do that is by purchasing another unit from Starwood. When you purchase from Starwood the purchase prices are very high and not negotiable. There is currently nobody else to buy from to accomplish what is also known as a requalification.

I know Ken consistently disagrees with the "need" to bring resales back into the SVN. It is not a good investment of money for most people because they do not have the long-term staying power to own and use lots of timeshare weeks.

I have done it 3 times. But, I think I had a good reason to do so. And, 2 of my resales gave me 148,100 StarOptions each and the 3rd gave me 196,900 StarOptions. Plus, for each requalification, I also received options to purchase 6 blocs of 80,000 StarOptions for $1,550 per bloc - or up to 480,000 StarOptions per requalification.

It depends on how you travel and vacation now and how you intend to travel and vacation over the next decade. I try to convert a substantial portion of my Starpoints to airline miles. My wife and I like flying first or business class and staying at Level 5-7 Starwood hotels. We have no debt and assets for retirement, we both will be earning for probably the next 3-5 years, we are healthy, have plenty of family and friends to travel with (if we wish), our work schedules are under enough control to let us vacation often and our kids are all grown.

However, I don't see buying another unit in Orlando to bring an Orlando resale back into the SVN as anything I would be interested in doing. There are weeks in more flexible places with more StarOptions that are better candidates for requalification.

Even if you really feel the "need" to requalify your Orlando week, there should be no hurry to do so. There is no indication that requalification is going away. Starwood is still acquiring inventory from foreclosures and ROFR in Hawaii and foreclosures elsewhere at resorts. WDW is not sold out. Lagunamar, ditto. In the next 5 years, Starwood will have something to sell you at inflated developer pricing.

Rescind and take the time to figure out if requalifying a resale in Orlando (or anywhere) really makes sense for you. You will probably decide it doesn't. And you will have saved your hard earned money. GLTY. Salty

We did get 25000 star point and 2 options to buy 80,000 points for $1550 each, and 2 options to buy 100,000 points for $1,900 each.

But, I'd rather have something that I can convert to point on a regular basis.

My husband and I travel quite a bit but usually we only stay 1 or 2 days before moving to the next place that we want to see. We do prefer staying at Starwood Hotels.

I'm not especially tied to bringing my current Palms week into the system. But as I already own it, it seemed cheaper than buying another resale. Unfortunately, I got snagged by Timeshare Adventures a few years ago, so I'm already into them for $750 to sell the place. My thought is that it's fairly easy to just give them the additional $750 so that they take it off my hands and do all the paper work. That will end my MF on that property.

Back to new purchases...

We've looked at the Starwood system and we think that getting to an elite status that would allow us to convert to point annually would be our best bet. So, I believe that means that we need to buy some resales and some developer properties to re-qualify them. I'm just looking to learn the best way to do this.

So far everyone seems to think that we should cancel the current agreement. We signed on Tuesday, so we've got several days to do it. I'd like to hear more from this group.

You guys are the best!!!

 

[susanrc10]

One more thing.....

Given that even if we do rescind (most likely will), we will eventually need to buy from a developer in order to requalify the resale that we buy. In that situation, where is the best place to purchase from a developer and what is the "going" price?

How many properties do we need to own to get to the first "Elite" level?

Thanks so much.

 

[DeniseM]

When you look at the huge investment needed to get to 5 Star Elite, and the high yearly maintenance fees, it usually does not make financial sense to buy timeshares, just to convert them to Starpoints (hotel points.) The conversion rate is poor, and it never increases.

Let me give you an example -

When I bought my Maui timeshare more than 10 years ago, the maintenance fee was about $1,100, and if I converted it to Starpoints I got 80,000 Starpoints.

Fast forward 10 years later: Now the maintenance fee has doubled ($2,200) but I STILL only get 80,000 Starpoints - and the number of Starpoints required for hotel rooms has increased considerably.

In fact, 80,000 Starpoints won't even get my 7 nights in the smallest room at the Westin Maui Hotel.

Generally, buying timeshares to convert to Starpoints all the time doesn't make financially sense.

 

[Ken555]

Generally, buying timeshares to convert to Starpoints all the time doesn't make financially sense.

I would emphasize this point by saying not "generally" but "almost always". Buying from the developer with the intent to convert to StarPoints, even with a requalifying week, is almost always a poor financial decision. Those who do so tend to know exactly how to maximize the value of their StarPoints and are satisfied with the redemption rates, know that it will be devalued over time (consistently), and are happy within the Starwood family of hotel options.

I suggest determining exactly how much new money you intend to spend to obtain additional deeds, how much the annual maintenance fees will be for those weeks, and how many nights per year you would intend to use. If using those nights at hotels, estimate which category hotels you would go to (and understand that the category designations change every year, so that nice category 4 hotel you like this year could be cat 5 next year, etc). Once you've done this, you might have an approximate amount per night of use...there are lots of ways to rationalize this type of purchase and play with the numbers...my advice is to be as realistic as possible, especially if you are even considering this as an investment (in travel flexibility). I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that a new substantial investment (especially if you're interested in elite status) could otherwise be used to simply rent wherever you want for about the same for many years, with ultimate flexibility. Try to be objective and you'll do well. Good luck.

 

[susanrc10]

When you look at the huge investment needed to get to 5 Star Elite, and the high yearly maintenance fees, it usually does not make financial sense to buy timeshares, just to convert them to Starpoints (hotel points.) The conversion rate is poor, and it never increases.

Let me give you an example -

When I bought my Maui timeshare more than 10 years ago, the maintenance fee was about $1,100, and if I converted it to Starpoints I got 80,000 Starpoints.

Fast forward 10 years later: Now the maintenance fee has doubled ($2,200) but I STILL only get 80,000 Starpoints - and the number of Starpoints required for hotel rooms has increased considerably.

In fact, 80,000 Starpoints won't even get my 7 nights in the smallest room at the Westin Maui Hotel.

Generally, buying timeshares to convert to Starpoints all the time doesn't make financially sense.

We'red not really looking to get to elite level 5. Level 3 is enough to be able to convert options to point annually.

My husband and I have between 4 and 5 weeks of vacation every year. And the there are long weekends. We've found that we are traveling to History sites and the Sheratons are generally level 5.

We were perfectly happy spending nearly $13,000. We are going to rescind this sale. But what is the best value for the same amount of money? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

We may go to one of the resorts for a week once every 5 years. But in between we want to be able to go to SPG hotels around the US, Europe and Austrailia.

Thanks,
susan

 

[LisaH]

$13,000 could afford you many nights at good SPG hotels around the world. You will be better off just paying cash to stay at the hotel than buying a timeshare, requalifying, paying M/F, converting to Starpoints, then using them to stay at the hotels.

 

[jarta]

When you look at the huge investment needed to get to 5 Star Elite, and the high yearly maintenance fees, it usually does not make financial sense to buy timeshares, just to convert them to Starpoints (hotel points.) The conversion rate is poor, and it never increases.

Let me give you an example -

When I bought my Maui timeshare more than 10 years ago, the maintenance fee was about $1,100, and if I converted it to Starpoints I got 80,000 Starpoints.

Fast forward 10 years later: Now the maintenance fee has doubled ($2,200) but I STILL only get 80,000 Starpoints - and the number of Starpoints required for hotel rooms has increased considerably.

In fact, 80,000 Starpoints won't even get my 7 nights in the smallest room at the Westin Maui Hotel.

Generally, buying timeshares to convert to Starpoints all the time doesn't make financially sense.

Westin Maui Resort is a Level 5 SPG hotel. Nights at a Level 5 hotel are 12,000-16,000 Starpoints per night. Starwood also gives a 5th night free when you rent 4 consecutive nights. Depending on the time of year, you can reserve 6 nights (and your 1 free night) for 72,000 Starpoints. If 2 nights are as high as 16,000 Starpoint nights you can get the week for exactly 80K Starpoints. You should buy a new calculator.

The average room rate for a Maui hotel in 2/13 was $294.30.

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/571836.html

The lowest rack rate for a room at the Westin Maui Resort is $349. I'm sure you can find one around $294.30.

I'm not saying that converting your WKORV with $2,200 MFs to Starpoints makes much economic sense. But, that's because you bought something in Hawaii. Converting anything in Hawaii for use in Hawaii (or anything less than a level 7 hotel outside of Hawaii ) probably makes little economic sense. (Even Marriott's MOC now has MFs close to $2,000 for a 2-br.)

My 3 Lagunamar weeks have $1,250 MFs each but each converts to 80K Starpoints. Those are the weeks I usually convert. How am making a bad economic decision if I use them to stay for a week at the Westin Maui Resort (or for airline miles or for a Level 7 hotel stay)?

Who made the bad economic decision? I think it was you when you decided to buy in Hawaii. Salty

 

[susanrc10]

Westin Maui Resort is a Level 5 SPG hotel. Nights at a Level 5 hotel are 12,000-16,000 Starpoints per night. Starwood also gives a 5th night free when you rent 4 consecutive nights. Depending on the time of year, you can reserve 6 nights (and your 1 free night) for 72,000 Starpoints. If 2 nights are as high as 16,000 Starpoint nights you can get the week for exactly 80K Starpoints. You should buy a new calculator.

The average room rate for a Maui hotel in 2/13 was $294.30.

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/571836.html

The lowest rack rate for a room at the Westin Maui Resort is $349. I'm sure you can find one around $294.30.

I'm not saying that converting your WKORV with $2,200 MFs to Starpoints makes much economic sense. But, that's because you bought something in Hawaii. Converting anything in Hawaii for use in Hawaii (or anything less than a level 7 hotel outside of Hawaii ) probably makes little economic sense. (Even Marriott's MOC now has MFs close to $2,000 for a 2-br.)

My 3 Lagunamar weeks have $1,250 MFs each but each converts to 80K Starpoints. Those are the weeks I usually convert. How am making a bad economic decision if I use them to stay for a week at the Westin Maui Resort (or for airline miles or for a Level 7 hotel stay)?

Who made the bad economic decision? I think it was you when you decided to buy in Hawaii. Salty

Thanks!

This is exactly what I'm looking for. I would be looking to buy in florida or Arizon. The MF here is $750.

 

[Ken555]

My 3 Lagunamar weeks have $1,250 MFs each but each converts to 80K Starpoints. Those are the weeks I usually convert. How am making a bad economic decision if I use them to stay for a week at the Westin Maui Resort (or for airline miles or for a Level 7 hotel stay)?

You neglected to include any value for the large sums you spent to buy those WLR weeks. On-going costs are only part of the equation. But you know all this quite well, so I assume you left it out strictly to make a point.

 

[susanrc10]

So where can I find the lowest cost and the lowest MF to requalify a resale property that I have yet to purchase? Or should I just call Vistana Villages or the Resort in Arizona?

 

[capjak]

If conversion to starpoints is part of your goal (and we can not talk you out of it), than you should also be aware of the starpoints associated with each unit. For example I believe the Westin in Arizona platinum yields more starpoints than the Sheraton's in Florida for the same size unit with lower maintenance fees.

The process I have read about on this forum is to go to a presentation and decline until you get to the stage where they offer you a "return/freeze the price" deal. Take that deal and than go back to the sales person and request the deal again or just do it up front...others will have to chime in here to see if that works and of course use your starwood american express for the purchase to get even more starpoints.

 

[DavidnRobin]

You neglected to include any value for the large sums you spent to buy those WLR weeks. On-going costs are only part of the equation. But you know all this quite well, so I assume you left it out strictly to make a point.

or rent from Owner at $200-$350/nite, or up/down the beach for less
{sarcastic friday!}

 

[VacationForever]

If conversion to starpoints is part of your goal (and we can not talk you out of it), than you should also be aware of the starpoints associated with each unit. For example I believe the Westin in Arizona platinum yields more starpoints than the Sheraton's in Florida for the same size unit with lower maintenance fees.

The process I have read about on this forum is to go to a presentation and decline until you get to the stage where they offer you a "return/freeze the price" deal. Take that deal and than go back to the sales person and request the deal again or just do it up front....

Explorer package (return/freeze the deal) is not a good idea or financially unless you know for sure you want to buy at that location. If you do, then why put it off till the "return. The issue that OP has is to figure out where to buy to retro.

Susan, from your posts you should not buy from the developer at this point. Keep reading TUG. Lots of good info here. Later on after you have gotten yourself educated and wish to buy from Starwood still, you can do so. Start with getting a SPG Amex card and start accumulating Starpoints. You will get more points per year thru your SPG Amex card than thru a retro of you Palms and an EOY Cascades.

 

[susanrc10]

If conversion to starpoints is part of your goal (and we can not talk you out of it), than you should also be aware of the starpoints associated with each unit. For example I believe the Westin in Arizona platinum yields more starpoints than the Sheraton's in Florida for the same size unit with lower maintenance fees.

The process I have read about on this forum is to go to a presentation and decline until you get to the stage where they offer you a "return/freeze the price" deal. Take that deal and than go back to the sales person and request the deal again or just do it up front...others will have to chime in here to see if that works and of course use your starwood american express for the purchase to get even more starpoints.

Thanks! We already have an SPG card and we ALWAYS use it at the hotels. We did use it to make this purchase. BTW - we just mailed off the letter and documentation to rescind the deal...and we did certified mail with return receipt requested.

So now we can take our time to find the best resale deals and the best choices for "requalifying" them. And we can think about not doing anything.

However, I am thinking that giving TimeshareAdventures $750 to take away the Palms unit is a good idea. I'm going to be paying that in MF as of January anyway.

I'll look into Arizona prices and MFs.

In the meantime, know that I really do appreciate all the help and I am grateful for all past and future advice.

Susan

 

[DavidnRobin]

However, I am thinking that giving TimeshareAdventures $750 to take away the Palms unit is a good idea. I'm going to be paying that in MF as of January anyway.

Susan

Did I read correctly - you are going to pay someone $750 to take your TS?
Tread very carefully here - I think it is strongly advised here on TUG not to do this (for a multitude of reasons).

 

[susanrc10]

Did I read correctly - you are going to pay someone $750 to take your TS?
Tread very carefully here - I think it is strongly advised here on TUG not to do this (for a multitude of reasons).

I do know that. Unfortunately, I gave Timeshare Adventures $750 around 4 years ago to sell the Vistana Palms unit. Of course, it has not sold...and I keep paying MFs and not using the weeks (for the most part). In order for Timeshare Adventures to take the unit off my hands, they require another $750. They take care of all the paper work.

If you know of a less expensive way to be rid of the $750 in annual maintenance fees, please let me know.

 

[Ken555]

I do know that. Unfortunately, I gave Timeshare Adventures $750 around 4 years ago to sell the Vistana Palms unit. Of course, it has not sold...and I keep paying MFs and not using the weeks (for the most part). In order for Timeshare Adventures to take the unit off my hands, they require another $750. They take care of all the paper work.

If you know of a less expensive way to be rid of the $750 in annual maintenance fees, please let me know.

Do you have until the end of year to pay them to take ownership of the deed? If you have time, don't do it just yet. Try listing it on TUG and give it away. I just gave away two Starwood weeks and the new owner pays the MF for 2014 (some weeks may need more incentive, but I doubt yours would).

 

[susanrc10]

Do you have until the end of year to pay them to take ownership of the deed? If you have time, don't do it just yet. Try listing it on TUG and give it away. I just gave away two Starwood weeks and the new owner pays the MF for 2014 (some weeks may need more incentive, but I doubt yours would).

I can do that. I think the Timeshare Adventure rule is that you have to do it before September. But I can certainly list the week on TUG. But I don't know how to "close" on the property. How do I legally make the transfer?

 

[Ken555]

I can do that. I think the Timeshare Adventure rule is that you have to do it before September. But I can certainly list the week on TUG. But I don't know how to "close" on the property. How do I legally make the transfer?

Many here, including myself, recommend using Legal Timeshare Transfers to handle the paperwork. With the units I gave away, the buyers pay all fees (it's not much, tho - normally about $125). LTT doesn't handle escrow, but that's not needed for you anyway.

 

[Ken555]

Ironically, I just Googled Timeshare Adventures and one of the links about them took me right back to TUG, and your thread from 2011! It seems you tried to dispute the original charge with your credit card company but then believed them when they assured you they would sell your week...obviously that hasn't happened, so I really don't understand why you would even think of giving them more money.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143418

 

[DavidnRobin]

I do know that. Unfortunately, I gave Timeshare Adventures $750 around 4 years ago to sell the Vistana Palms unit. Of course, it has not sold...and I keep paying MFs and not using the weeks (for the most part). In order for Timeshare Adventures to take the unit off my hands, they require another $750. They take care of all the paper work.

If you know of a less expensive way to be rid of the $750 in annual maintenance fees, please let me know.

You gave them $750 previously and they did not sell the TS - and you are going to give them $750 more. Think about that for a second - I think that is called throwing good money after bad...