What's the going rate for Christmas Mountain UDIs?

[JudyS]

A few years back, I was considering buying a Christmas Mountain UDI (which is a very unusual type of timeshare that allows multiple weeks per year to be booked), but got so busy (and broke! ) buying other timeshares that I never did. Now, I'm considering it again, but it's been quite a while since I've looked into it and have no idea what the current prices are like.

Back when I first looked at Christmas Mountain UDIs, RCI was allowing unlimited weeks per year to be deposited into RCI Points; now, they limit it (to three weeks a year, maybe?) How has that impacted prices? Any suggestions of places to look for resales? (I know about Pinnacle.) Thanks!

 

[theo]

Brucecz is likely "the man" with all the answers and info you might possibly ever need or want in regard to Christmas Mountain UDI's.

However, due a recent death within his family, Bruce may not have the time (or the inclination) to be on TUG at this particular time....

 

[Tom52]

If you are considering a UDI you may want to do a bit of research about the future prospects for special assessments due to supposed shortfall in funds needed for maintenance. I saw this in a post over on the yahoo Bluegreen group.

With the possible purchase of Bluegreen by DRI I wonder if new restrictions will be coming that could adversely affect the UDIs and Bluegreen points owners. I would consider a wait and see attitude.

 

[wbtimesharer]

If you are considering a UDI you may want to do a bit of research about the future prospects for special assessments due to supposed shortfall in funds needed for maintenance. I saw this in a post over on the yahoo Bluegreen group.

With the possible purchase of Bluegreen by DRI I wonder if new restrictions will be coming that could adversely affect the UDIs and Bluegreen points owners. I would consider a wait and see attitude.

Tom,

What was the source quoted or was that just another sales pitch by BlueGreen to get someone to cash it in.

I think that the Deeds for these units somewhat regulate what DRI can do. I would imagine that BlueGreen would have already have ratcheted down the amenties if they could considering how hard they go after them.

That said, the price of the Cottages I think are still worth around 3k to 5k and the Timbers being about double that value. With most maintenance fees running around 600 for most timeshares for only a week, the abilility to reserve multiple weeks and to use them for renting, points, weeks exchanges, and personal use is very attractive.

Bill

 

[Tom52]

Tom,

What was the source quoted or was that just another sales pitch by BlueGreen to get someone to cash it in.

I think that the Deeds for these units somewhat regulate what DRI can do. I would imagine that BlueGreen would have already have ratcheted down the amenties if they could considering how hard they go after them.

That said, the price of the Cottages I think are still worth around 3k to 5k and the Timbers being about double that value. With most maintenance fees running around 600 for most timeshares for only a week, the abilility to reserve multiple weeks and to use them for renting, points, weeks exchanges, and personal use is very attractive.

Bill

I think we had a $100 special assessment this year on the UDI's if I am not mistaken. I will not be surprised to see it again next year if what they say is true. I believe the source was someone attending the HOA meeting, but you can check it out over there at the yahoo Bluegreen group.

My concern with the UDI is that DRI could put restrictions on rentals of Bluegreen weeks, whether points reservations or UDI reservations. Do we know what DRI has for an existing policy on rentals? Rumor I heard was they may be more restrictive in their existing program. I would be concerned abut the resale value of my Timbers UDI if the rental policy is somehow restricted.

I would definitely be investigating special assessments and DRI existing policy on rentals if I were in the market for a UDI with intentions to do the rentals. As we know the RCI weeks for points program can be altered again in the future as well, so I would be considering that if the plan was for RCI points for weeks deposit.

I agree with your assessment of the Cottage prices, I sold my pure UDI Cottage last year in the middle of your range. I haven't heard of a Timbers sale is several years so I have no idea on their prices. I would sell my Timbers if I could get between the mid to high end of your estimate. I hope your assessment is correct.

 

[JudyS]

Thanks for all of the comments!

I hadn't heard that Bruce lost a family member recently -- I am sorry to hear that. I do know that Bruce is quite expert on using CMV UDIs.

I hadn't been following the discussion of a possible takeover of Bluegreen by DRI. How likely is that? I know a year or two ago there was concern that Bluegreen would be taken over by Westgate but those rumors seem to have gone away.

I don't think I've ever heard of a resort totally forbidding rentals -- I'm not sure resorts in the US could even legally do that, at least not if they're deeded. I do know that the Disney Vacation Club forbids "renting for commercial purposes" which they seem to define as more than 20 rentals per year by a single owner. The DVC is not a fully deeded timeshare, though. (The buildings are deeded but the land underlying the timeshares is RTU.)

As for special assessments, I assume the amount wouldn't be much higher for a UDI than for a regular unit? So, that wouldn't be too bad -- restrictions on rentals and other uses would concern me more.

I appreciate the heads-up and will consider possible takeover or SAs before deciding to purchase. Anywhere other than Pinnacle that I should be looking for resales?

 

[Tom52]

I can think of several things that a timeshare company could do to impede the rental process. Maybe not stop it but add fees and red tape to complicate the process. You might want to check around to see what the current process is for DRI. Maybe DRI is not much different than Bluegreen is now, but do your due diligence.

How possible is it? If the financing can be secured it sounds like a done deal, the Westgate deal several years ago was more of an attempt at a hostile takeover, this deal with DRI sounds like a friendly buyout, so to speak.

It is my understanding this shortfall, thus the special assessments has to do only with the Christmas Mountain Campground HOA which includes all the UDI units. It has nothing to do with members in the Bluegreen vacation club, meaning Bluegreen points. If I am wrong someone should jump in here and clarify. There are a lot of Bluegreen folks around here alot more knowledgable than me.

 

[rapmarks]

not an expert, only live here

I do know that the last board meeting it was reported that the association that the cottage UDI's are part of was close to $400,000 short in maintenance fees meeting expenses. Bluegreen said they would no longer subsidize it.
The management here is mum on the DRI takeover

When we first moved here in either 87 or 88 when they were starting UDI's, we were told very emphatically that they would not allow rentals of your UDI weeks. Somewhere that changed. Can it change again, I don't know.

 

[Tom52]

not an expert, only live here

I do know that the last board meeting it was reported that the association that the cottage UDI's are part of was close to $400,000 short in maintenance fees meeting expenses. Bluegreen said they would no longer subsidize it.
The management here is mum on the DRI takeover

When we first moved here in either 87 or 88 when they were starting UDI's, we were told very emphatically that they would not allow rentals of your UDI weeks. Somewhere that changed. Can it change again, I don't know.

Thanks for the confirmation on the shortfall. I was not aware that the original intent of the UDI's was to not allow rentals. That would be a problem for some if the rental possibilities went away. I know Bluegreen seems to change the rules when it suits them. I would be interested to know whether they could stop rentals on UDI weeks.

 

[JudyS]

Thanks very much for all of the posts! I still have some interest in this, but it looks like there are some complications I wasn't aware of.

 

[brucecz]

If you are considering a UDI you may want to do a bit of research about the future prospects for special assessments due to supposed shortfall in funds needed for maintenance. I saw this in a post over on the yahoo Bluegreen group.

With the possible purchase of Bluegreen by DRI I wonder if new restrictions will be coming that could adversely affect the UDIs and Bluegreen points owners. I would consider a wait and see attitude.

I just saw this string today as we just got back from a timeshare vacation a couple of days ago at the Heidel House Resort at Green Lake, Wi.

Most everything being disscussed by the Bluegreen Yahoo group is speculation at this point. The financing to secure the buy to my knowlegde has not been secured so at this point it is not a done deal.


Tom, your view IMHO is a prudent one to take and good advice but seeing I am not very prudent or bright I just bought our 12th UDI that has 12,000 BG Points attached to it even after hearing about the DRI offer .


In regard to rentals, some of the old Sunterra owners who control a lot of weeks and who now belong to the DRI Club do a lot of rentals and I have not heard of any restrictions on owners renting out thier weeks.


I know that our UDI maintenance fees went up about 6% from the year before. I was unaware that the deeded UDI's had a special acessment. I think the points owners who own stand alone BG points had some big increases.

But I am unaware that the BG points attached to the UDI's we own had a special accessment. I could have missed it bu if there was a $100 special accessment per ownership I think I would have noticed a $1,100. special accessment. But again with all of the many various ownerships we have I could have missed it.

I know that the UDI Cottages (RCI resort 1115)and the UDI Timbers (RCI resort 3662) have seperate HOA's as in the past I have attended those two seperate meetings.

In regard to what Rapmarks said about rentals in the post before my post, I do not doubt that is what they said in 87 or 88 if that is what she remembers being said is true.

But just a few years ago a person checking into CMV had to be 21 and recently the person only has to be 18 at CMV. I wonder if some owner started a lawsuit to get that age limited changed.

Maybe the same thing happened on rentals? I do not know the answer.

The same thing about smoking no longer being allowed in the units as before.

When I bought my first Cottage UDI a bit over 8 (or 9) years ago I had received copy of the Cottages Handbook Rules and I do not remember any mention of rentals. I think I would have noticed if their was some memtion, but I would not bet my life on it.

If they were to try and stop rentals here are just few things to consider.

RCI rents out CMV weeks, so IMHO they could not forbid the DEEDED owners from renting out those weeks but allow RCI to do so. Does II rent out CMV weeks?

If renting out of weeks is not allowed wouldn't the exchange of weeks through any exchange company be a sort of rental to obtain something of value?


Thridly,places like Redweek do not prevent the rental of the weeks that have been exchanged for so how can they contraol that?

Theo, thanks for the complicment but I certainly am no expert but Boca knows how to and more importantly takes the time to read the cono convenents documents, etc. In fact I have learned from him and Bill B., Tom 52 and Rapmarks who have alll posted on this string.

I had a copy of the Cottage documents but I do not know were it is.

In regards to the $400,000 I find that interesting seeing we are paying into a reserve fund.

That $400,000 divided by about 80 units equals about $5,000. per unit divided by 50 weeks equals $100 per week of useage. So that $400,000 is not that big of a scary number after you break it down.

I also wonder about the UDI's that were converted to BG Points. Are those maintence fees being prorated and paid to CMV for the use of any Cottage and Oak Timbers units by the BG Points owners?

Supposely there is a seperate inventory of deeded and BG Points inventory.

But if any one wants to dump a UDI Cottage or UDI Timbers that has 9,000 or more BG Points attached to it I might buy it to have 60,000 or more BG Points.

Bruce

 

[rapmarks]

someone told me they think the big shortfall in the Campground association (of which UDI cottages are a part) is from campground owners who are not paying their maintenance fees. This person is not on any board, so consider the source. It seems that there would not be enough campground owners not paying to total $400,000.

It occurs to me as I read the posts that Christmas Mountain is stricter with homeowners than with timeshare owners. We have been told that no guest or child can use the pool without our being with them. Even if they are 21! When my son and his friends visit, I am supposed to accompany them if they shoot hoops or whatever. Really he is very well behaved, he no longer needs me watching him. We are not allowed to rent out our houses either. Two homes are grandfathered in on rentals, and their renters are not alloweed to use the facilities.

 

[brucecz]

The last time we went to CMV the lead generators in the booth next to the check in desk indicated that they are very happy with me and my rentals. They remembered who I am and came out to shake my hand.

The reason is that last year our renters did 18 or so presentations with them and that put money in thier pockets.

IMHO new renters are a good sourse of leads for sales so even if they could it would not be productive for leads to stop owner rentals.

Bruce

 

[rapmarks]

The last time we went to CMV the lead generators in the booth next to the check in desk indicated that they are very happy with me and my rentals. They remembered who I am and came out to shake my hand.

The reason is that last year our renters did 18 or so presentations with them and that put money in thier pockets.

IMHO new renters are a good sourse of leads for sales so even if they could it would not be productive for leads to stop owner rentals.

Bruce

that's a goodf point, rentals are prospects.

I have decided that a lot of these rules are made up on the spot by whoever is in charge at the time. CMV is now on its 6th general manager in 9 years. Despite different management techniques and scaring all the other managrs to death, nothing has really gotten any better.

Someone asked about campground reservation rules at the front desk, they were told to go to sales. Now if the reservation desk doesn't know if there is a limit on reservations, who is going to enforce it? Not the new manager, he has no idea.
Three of our friends just starting selling timeshares. B had a good prospct but the spouse was handicapped. he made every effort to show them the handicap units, the front desk claimed to not know where they are. He persisted, was given keys, and spent hours taking these people to the wrong units. He said he had found the correct units after work and was going to call the prospects at their hotel to see if they sttill wanted to see them. They were ready to buy a $26,000 package. I think this is what happens with so many management changes.